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Same photo or not?

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Noddard
Posts: 2652 - Karma: 3,831
What do you guys think did Full Tilt use this photo on the Tom Wallisch pro model boot or not?  Wallisch seems to think this is not the photo.  The issue is that Full Tilt did not have permission to use the photo, and the photographer found out!  SAME? or NOT?

Click for larger image

Click for larger image
  Here they are fitted together

Click for larger image

You decide...

Photo Credit: Ethan Stone
Mar 14 2014 12:06AM
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JeremyClarkson
Posts: 1599 - Karma: 1,921
Ahahaha FT management is sweating bullets right about now, and for good reason. This would definitely hold up in court with a good lawyer. Luckily for them ECB isn't that kind of guy, or at least he isn't letting on that he is.....
Mar 15 2014 1:28AM
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CrotchKiller
Posts: 9037 - Karma: 6,943
that's the same picture, it's not even a question.
Mar 15 2014 2:07AM
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GreenStezz
Posts: 3570 - Karma: 717
Silly new schoolers..........................
Mar 15 2014 9:45PM
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JLev
Posts: 872 - Karma: 4,795
Each year we'd only buy 1 photo per athlete & use for everything due to our limited budget so that photo in the catalog is the photo we traced for the sillouette of his icon that year. That's why we used that particular trick because it was in some ways his signature trick. Michael Jordan slam dunk photos are also always in the exact same position for same reason.
Mar 15 2014 10:44PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
This could all be ended by them posting up the real picture.
Mar 16 2014 2:31AM
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eheath
Posts: 61648 - Karma: 123,475
They did?
Mar 16 2014 2:37AM
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Noddard
Posts: 2652 - Karma: 3,831
No they didn't...
Mar 16 2014 6:46AM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
it was posted on the previous page, so there is no reason for them to repost it a second time
Mar 16 2014 9:12AM
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corona
Posts: 12804 - Karma: 32,823
except that clearly isn't the picture used.

do they really think we're that dumb? the chances of them taking the picture they posted and altering it with no reference whatsoever and having everything, even the bump in the jacked, match that picture perfectly is practically 0. And if this were a court issue there's no way in hell a judge would believe them.
Mar 16 2014 11:43AM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
The poles in that picture are off.
Mar 16 2014 12:40PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
Do none of you people understand design? Jlev said they buy 1 photo and that was what the stencil is from, that shot being the one from the first year t-walls posted last page. Now, any designer looking at that would say if this was stenciled the lines wouldn't look quite right, lets reposition them to define the shape better. 5 min later in illustrator moving them to the correct position and done. i can't count how many times I've seen Wallisch do that trick, it's not like they didn't have countless video footage to also look at.
Mar 16 2014 3:11PM
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corona
Posts: 12804 - Karma: 32,823
never mind. Just superimposed them myself and they don't actually match that well. Lesson learned: check things yourself.
Mar 16 2014 3:17PM
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ESB
Posts: 9274 - Karma: 10,648
Jason, glad you're involved in this discussion as well.

At this point, unless another mystery catalog photo surfaces that Full Tilt actually paid for, I am close to 100% convinced that my photo is the basis for this silhouette.

The photo that Malcyzk posted earlier, while showing a similar body position during the same trick, only illustrates more clearly how impossibly well my photo and the silhouette match up compared to similar photos.

Those who aren't photographers or don't have an eye for detail, might not appreciate how unlikely it is that "some other photo" or even a video still frame, will match up as perfectly with the silhouette as my shot does.

The truth is, I could go out with Tom and shoot this one trick from the same angle on the same jump for a week straight, and I highly doubt that I'd be able to recreate the same exact pose in the photo: same angle of the poles and skis, position of the knees, and the flare of the jacket on his back.

If it's truly a coincidence, it's one hell of a coincidence.


Interesting side note: the famous Jordan "Jumpman" silhouette first showed up in a photo in Life magazine article. A Nike manager spotted the shot and wanted to use it - BUT, because Nike didn't have the rights to the photo, they went and paid for a new photo shoot with Jordan to recreate the pose.

http://ballislife.com/origin-of-jumpan-jordan-logo/

Now, if Nike had just taken the silhouette from the Life magazine shot without asking anyone first, you can bet your britches there would have been a lawsuit over it.
Mar 16 2014 5:38PM
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heFF
Posts: 5786 - Karma: 4,456
damn stoneys photo is 10x more on point than this one
Mar 16 2014 5:53PM
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Forcillo
Posts: 3801 - Karma: 3,580
Shots fired. Bang bang!
Mar 16 2014 5:54PM
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Toaster-Tony
Posts: 3531 - Karma: 5,850
^he has to challenge it a little bit. If I were in his shoes I'd do the same. Even if FT didn't use his photo, based on the pictures posted so far, it definitely looks like they did.

It'll be interesting to see if FT responds to him, or if it's even done publicly.
Mar 16 2014 6:23PM
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willy_baller
Posts: 1622 - Karma: 693
Yes, it is called derivative work and it would be copyright infringement in this case.
Mar 16 2014 7:37PM
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Ribss.
Posts: 3442 - Karma: 3,344
If I were FT I would just accept the fact that they have been found out and just pay Stone some lunch money.
Mar 16 2014 8:16PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
Do you not understand the law? This is going to get very expensive for both parties, so I suggest everyone settles and saves time.
Mar 16 2014 9:35PM
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busterburns
Posts: 485 - Karma: 539
The question is: what are you going to do about it? some silly thread on NS probably doesn't have the power to make anyone at FT sweat bullets, but you sure do..

It's looking pretty fuckin similar, sorry Malczyk.
Mar 16 2014 10:22PM
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Goku
Posts: 8119 - Karma: 4,223
Click for larger image
Mar 16 2014 10:27PM
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DIX~
Posts: 4695 - Karma: 6,502
Crazy similarities. However the pants in the one FT posted match up way better with the silhouette. The upper body seems closer to Ethan's though
Mar 16 2014 10:38PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
Also just so you know I'll PM you later, but two years ago fulltilt fucked me out of a $600 purchase when I got there boots that broke one day after using, and they made me send the boots back and took over a month to fix. Then broke again, on top of that their customer service was absolute garbage and I had to have a local shop take care of it. I then made a thread on Newschoolers complaining about their service and they had the thread deleted (I assume it was deleted by them, this is after mods didn't PM you telling you why they deleted the thread) anyway long story short Have quite a few family members and friends who are lawyers, and work for legal firms. And although I can't help you with any lawyer fees or actual work. I will do anything in my power to help you out, answer any questions etc, Because to this day I'm still furious at the company. /rant
Mar 16 2014 11:24PM
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eheath
Posts: 61648 - Karma: 123,475
I highly doubt either party is interested in any sort of legal action... chill out dude
Mar 16 2014 11:54PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
No, I will not chill, I was wronged by this company, and if i can help him by putting him in contact with the right people, it gives me a nice warm tingly feeling inside knowing I helped. There's two thing you don't do fuck with, a mans money or he ski time.
Mar 17 2014 1:17AM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
*his

but you're right, its up to the protographer if he want to do take action or not.
Mar 17 2014 1:19AM
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eheath
Posts: 61648 - Karma: 123,475
Click for larger image

I am disappoint with people who want to see small successful ski company's fail. I understand you had an issue but it sounds like they helped you as much as you could but you expected more. Sorry? I still think it's stupid to hate on core ski companies.
Mar 17 2014 1:27AM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,340
I hate on companies that deserve to be hated on, core or not. Legal action here is retarded.
Mar 17 2014 1:36AM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
You assume wrong, I have no problem with the fact that one product they sold me broke, shit happens I get it. But the company then needs to say, "Hey we messed up let us fix the problem, or if we can't fix i, we will send you a new one. Just like sessions did with one of their jackets I bought from them (big shout out to you guys) FT did not do that, they did not fix the boot after it broke a 2nd time and it then took over a month to fix it the first time. That was in January, when I buy a ski boot for over 600$ with my own money I would like to use it for that winter not sitting around waiting for the boot to be fixed.

Yeah I'm mad Click for larger image
Mar 17 2014 1:56AM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
yeah but being supercoreman doesn't mean you don't have to do shit on the up and up

if it's the photo they used, FT should man the fuck up and admit their wrongdoing and make it right. i think ESB is being pretty chill about the whole thing, why don't they cut their losses and hit him up for the product of his that they allegedly used..

seems simple to me, don't cloud the situation with "but, core." they have plenty of money to pay people for the shit they use

all this is assuming the photo is the same. but if not theyre insanely similar which means regardless of what really happened, there's an issue they should address like adults
Mar 17 2014 10:52AM
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OzzyJ
Posts: 723 - Karma: 927
Obviously they are the same why are you wasting our time with this
Mar 17 2014 10:57AM
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Static
Posts: 8561 - Karma: 4,139
I'm amazed eheath can even see or type will all the dicks he's sucking
Mar 17 2014 11:50AM
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jason...
Posts: 9006 - Karma: 780
Full Tilt better pay the photog. Getting fucked by large companies is WEAK. Gonna lose a lot of respect for FT if they don't do the right thing here.
Mar 17 2014 11:54AM
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bwilson17
Posts: 61 - Karma: 112
I heard that FT is actually gonna sue this Ethan kid because he didnt have permission to take photos of Tom...
Mar 17 2014 12:39PM
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Bombogenesis
Posts: 1985 - Karma: 4,022
It's intellectual property. You have a lot to learn, chap.
Mar 17 2014 3:18PM
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ShredAZ
Posts: 1054 - Karma: 641
Threadzz fo dayyzz
Mar 17 2014 3:59PM
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TOAST.
Posts: 7513 - Karma: 36,443
Isn't Full Tilt owned by Jarden Corp? Definitely not small, although it is a small part of their corporation.
Mar 17 2014 4:18PM
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jensen
Posts: 2576 - Karma: 1,267
Aren't small "core" ski companies supposed to support the community? Isn't that the whole premise of supporting a small "core" ski company?

How about this, small ski companies don't steal from the the "core" members of the community. Otherwise their whole mission backfires in their face.
Mar 18 2014 2:11AM
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-MK-
Posts: 3253 - Karma: 5,332
At least it wasn't Nate Abbots photo... We would have a multi million law suit, and a ton of bitching. Haha
Mar 18 2014 3:14AM
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madchronic
Posts: 460 - Karma: 325
I don't see them accepting or apologizing anytime soon. They're in a hole and it just keeps getting deeper and deeper.
Mar 18 2014 11:03AM
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Session
Posts: 5390 - Karma: 22,284
I love how buying 15-20 year old molds, putting some cool colors on them, then marketing them as the be all end all is considered "core".
Mar 18 2014 11:26AM
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Goku
Posts: 8119 - Karma: 4,223
The Fisher Price of ski boots
Mar 18 2014 1:29PM
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montanan
Posts: 1787 - Karma: 1,346
Ha crazy shit ha but yeah, that is definitely the same photo. Hope all gets worked out for the best, for everyone involved, etc. Basically pay the photographer .....imo,
Mar 18 2014 2:23PM
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icon1234
Posts: 3081 - Karma: 1,475
I definitely think without question that the photo ESB took is the one they used for the silhouette.

Also ESB, I have no knowledge about the legality of this, but I believe if you wish to pursue this you could be entitled to quite a large sum of money. My reasoning is this image isn't something that was simply used once and then forgotten, but it instead it has been branded on by FT and been sold for potentially millions of dollars through their products.

If I was you I would stop making anymore posts online or in public and hire yourself a lawyer to see if you have a case. As much as I love FT, in fact I ironically have the TW FT, they potentially really fucked up here, and I believe you morally have the complete right to pursue this further.
Mar 19 2014 2:21PM
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OzzyJ
Posts: 723 - Karma: 927
maybe you should check your message before you write it because I don't think anyone can tell what you are trying to say
Mar 19 2014 5:58PM
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Ribss.
Posts: 3442 - Karma: 3,344
.
Mar 20 2014 4:47AM
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ShredAZ
Posts: 1054 - Karma: 641
Effin' A I want to hear a response from FT. Puttin' myself in the photog's shoes, I wouldn't be the happiest camper.
Mar 20 2014 10:31AM
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