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Crispy.I've been doing Push/pull/legs/push/pull/legs rest for the past 2 months and just realized this weekend how taxing it's been on my body. Backing off to a push/pull 2x a week.
DaffyDaDakif you're not training MINIMUM 3 times a week for an hour - 1 1/2 you're not going to be making much progress
DaffyDaDakif you're not training MINIMUM 3 times a week for an hour - 1 1/2 you're not going to be making much progress
S.J.WDoes anyone have any experience with doing an AB week like schedule where you hit hypertrophy range for size one week then 1 rep max the other weeks for strength and do that for some weeks? Or is it just better to split the two into two separate schedules.
DaffyDaDakif you're not training MINIMUM 3 times a week for an hour - 1 1/2 you're not going to be making much progress
BenWhitI think he is describing a 6-day schedule, if I'm not mistaken.
Push/Pull/Legs would be a 3-day sequence, then repeated.
Question for Crispy; do you incorporate squatting on your push (press) days? Is it not a pressing movement?
dustygoldflakesDo you guys as avid lifters and skiers let the winter season affect your lifting at all? Last year I found it difficult to ski all day and then still have time to life. If so, does this affect your strength at all? Let me know what you guys do!
jblaskiI kinda use skiing as a reward for the gym. I don't allow myself to go ski unless I go to the gym first. If it's a pow day and I want first chair, I'd better get my ass up early and get to the gym. It also helps that my resort of choice is 20mins from my house.
dustygoldflakesBut aren't you sore and tired after a long intense workout? Especially on leg day, I feel like this would affect my performance on the mountain don't you think?
jblaskiI kinda use skiing as a reward for the gym. I don't allow myself to go ski unless I go to the gym first. If it's a pow day and I want first chair, I'd better get my ass up early and get to the gym. It also helps that my resort of choice is 20mins from my house.
dustygoldflakesDo you guys as avid lifters and skiers let the winter season affect your lifting at all? Last year I found it difficult to ski all day and then still have time to life. If so, does this affect your strength at all? Let me know what you guys do!
Crispy.Ben I was originally going to do the push/pull, but I had the same concerns as you. Push/pull makes it hard to incorporate squats and deads (both of which I wanted) because you squat on push day and deadlift on pull day. Instead, I opted for an upper/lower which I would highly recommend.
DaffyDaDakif you're not training MINIMUM 3 times a week for an hour - 1 1/2 you're not going to be making much progress
DaffyDaDakif you're not training MINIMUM 3 times a week for an hour - 1 1/2 you're not going to be making much progress
S.J.Wover training.
S.J.WThis is probably a troll but I'll bite.
Nutrition is more important than working out. You could work out all you like but if your nutrition isn't in check then you're not going to see results. Also an hour to hour and a half is over kill in the gym and is actually over training.
BenWhitis a myth.
RedPandaEh, actual overtraining is pretty hard to do. On my heavy leg day where I squat and deadlift + other accessory stuff, with all my warm up, warm up sets, as well as fairly long rests in between work sets, it could easily take an hour and a half, also depending on how long I have to wait for a rack.
An hour and a half really isn't that long to spend in the gym.
S.J.WYou also think spinning the weights on bench gets you crazy jacked because of gravity?
BenWhitI don't bench, so no.
S.J.WLol downvote me instead of presenting an argument into why overtraining is a myth. Then again you do crossfit and crossfit basically celebrates rhabdomyolysis
S.J.WMaybe on heavy compound movements, yeah. But when you're targeting for hypertrophy range then over training is very real. And will cause more problems than good.
BenWhitI didn't down-vote anything.
I didn't mention rhabdo, nor is it celebrated. Didn't even bring up crossfit. I don't bench because there is very little correlation between how much I can bench and how much I can jerk/split jerk.
http://www.ironmanmagazine.com/the-myth-of-overtraining/ - this is pretty compelling. Evidence suggests that elite athletes can tolerate & sustain a 3x increase in training volume for several weeks. You, nor I, nor anyone in this thread will never experience "overtraining syndrome". Your body lies to you.
You are probably the biggest pusscake in this thread. I'm 100% a better athlete than you.
goodbye, now.
S.J.WLol downvote me instead of presenting an argument into why overtraining is a myth. Then again you do crossfit and crossfit basically celebrates rhabdomyolysis
S.J.W"I am 100% a better athlete than you" nice chest beat there. Make you feel big telling someone behind a keyboard you're a better athlete than them? I don't lift to be an athlete, I lift for mainly aesthetic reasons and to get away from shit for an hour a day. I am defiently a better surfer than you. But wait you don't surf so making the comparison is fucking stupid. Same with being an athlete. I'm not an athlete so congratulations on that. You sound a little insecure to be honest.
But lols, already resulted to insults. Your butt must be a little hurt.
BenWhitYou threw out an insult first, my friend. You want to get into a dick measuring contest, be my guest. I said over-training was a myth, you instantaneously made a quip about my form of exercise. I'm quite secure with who am I and my abilities, they speak for themselves.
athlete - a person who is proficient in sports and other forms of physical exercise. you exercise? you're an athlete. you surf? you're an athlete. you ski? you're an athlete.
S.J.W" I said over training was a myth"...presents a source which says overtraining is real. Do you even source bro?
Hahah, I'm so done with you.
S.J.W" I said over training was a myth"...presents a source which says overtraining is real. Do you even source bro?
Hahah, I'm so done with you.
BenWhit"In my opinion, overtraining has been blown out of proportion for commercialism. It certainly exists (primarily in endurance athletes, not bodybuilders) and can absolutely hinder your progress, which is the reason I include deload and recover weeks in my program design. Even so, I’ve watched the concept of overtraining become blown out of proportion and distorted over the years."
You took one sentence that loosely substantiated the existence of over-training and considered it confirmation that over-training is a common occurrence among recreational fitness athletes.
Over-Training Syndrome exists at the fringe and nowhere else.
Do you reading comprehension, bro?
S.J.WIt's still over training. You said over training was a myth. Well your source states otherwise. Now either find a source which claims that overtraining doesn't exist and is a myth. I've presented my arguments. You have still yet to present a source which says over training doesn't exist.
jblaskiYou're digging yourself deeper in a hole. Quit arguing while you still can, you're starting to look foolish.
S.J.WIt's still over training. You said over training was a myth. Well your source states otherwise. Now either find a source which claims that overtraining doesn't exist and is a myth. I've presented my arguments. You have still yet to present a source which says over training doesn't exist.
BenWhitTo the average exerciser, it is a myth. It is unattainable. It is a unicorn. You just told someone who exercised 6 days a week, for more than an hour per day, that they were over-training.
If you want to have a legitimate discussion about the definition of over-training and its application to the recreational exerciser & elite athletes, please feel free, I would happy to oblige because I find it interesting. If you want to argue semantics and the literal definition of the word "myth", then get the fuck out of here.
CT Fletcher, I'm sure you know how that is, is very often quoted as saying that "over-training is a myth". I am reiterating that sentiment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8_8phD7AwM Does he (do I) literally believe that over-training syndrome is not something that exists? No. Point being, no matter how hard you work, 2 hrs in the gym each day for 7 days a week is not going to induce the symptoms of over-training syndrome. The fact that you haven't inferred or comprehended that yet, is unbelievable.
You can't go around swinging your hogan when you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.
S.J.WCt Fletcher also ate McDonalds and other junk food as a means for meet his crazy calorie intake. And he also said your sets start when you can' do no more. Yeah CT Fletcher, truely a man you should trust. I'd much rather trust Jeff Cavaliere over CT Fletcher. Off course over training is much more difficult than just spending X amount in the gym. Over training also isn't just getting rhabdomyolysis. It's not making progresss, being fatigue. Jeff put it nicely "The concept of overtraining revolves around establishing the minimum effective dose to elicit a change in your muscles. Going beyond this dose (or volume) begins to invite muscle damage or a depletion in your body's reserves needed to fuel your recovery. That said, undertraining (the opposite of workout overtraining) can also be a problem. This comes when the workout intensity is lacking and not enough of a stimulus is provided to the muscles to cause them to have to change.
The secret to a successful plateau free lifting experience is to be able to identify the symptoms of overtraining and then modify your exercise or bodybuilding workouts to eliminate the volumes causing the overtraining.
Those that are experiencing signs of overtraining or are constantly over working their muscles will become more irritable, will feel more fatigued, might have a higher resting heart rate, and see all strength and size gains come to a halt"
In training there is an equilibrium of intensity, reps, sets, etc to where you're muscles over load and will grow. Anything beyond that is over training. You will not be making any more gains if you do 6 sets of bench over 4 sets of bench. If your nutrition is in check and you are getting enough sleep, it's pretty easy to spot if you're over training. If you're not progressing in the gym (strength, size) you're over training. If you're gaining fat but still exercising, you're over training. Your joints and limbs hurt. You fail to do your regular workout. And these signs go on and on. Sure you may not be getting hypothyroidism but that doesn't mean you're not over-training.
Anyways, I'm done with this conversation. Enjoy spending obscene amounts of time in the gym for gains that you could make in the half the time.
californiagrownSo what is overtraing for me? Specifically. You seem to have a good handle of the specifics of overtraining, and know that 6 days per week istoo much for homeboy a few posts up.
Please, enlighten me.
S.J.WAnyways, I'm done with this conversation. Enjoy spending obscene amounts of time in the gym for gains that you could make in the half the time.
S.J.WWell everyone is different. It's about spotting the symptoms of overtraining and adjusting accordingly. Overload not overtrain.
BenWhitWhat does your volume & intensity look like? I have been squatting three days a week since June (really, in some capacity, everyday). It sucks, it's hard, it's exhausting
Crispy.I'm doing high intensity lower volume on compounds and medium volume on accessories. My current routine:
S.J.WSo asking for a source to support over training doesn't exist is making me look foolish? Yeah alrighty there buddy. Enjoy your broscience
S.J.WCt Fletcher also ate McDonalds and other junk food as a means for meet his crazy calorie intake.
flatlandYou just answered the question that 99% of the people who toil around in mediocrity can't seem to figure out, quit being a fucking pussy when it comes to eating if you want to get big/strong.
I don't understand why you would want to use the "minimum effective dose" to progress at the minimum rate. Unfortunately the majority of all the special snowflakes who have gotten into lifting in recent past don't have the mental fortitude to suffer through some volume and seem to think that they're going to die at the end of a high intensity cycle.
S.J.WHoly fuck. Do you not see what I am saying, or do you just want your dick to be bigger? There's a point of equilibrium in lifting. Anything after that you will not be making any more gains. Train smarter, not longer. Think of cooking food. There's a point where your food tastes delicious. Cook it longer and it won't make it any more delicious, you're just wasting time. Exact same with lifting.
californiagrownAnd the point you have going over your head is that the point of equilibrium you refer to is waaaaaaaay higher than most people believe it to be.
BenWhitFor your major compound lifts, what are your working percentages? ie. squats, front squats, deadlifts.
S.J.WOkay then they are under training. It's pretty simple. Get your nutrition in check, sleep in check, and then experiment. If you notice gains working out for 45 minutes then stick to that. If you're working out for 2 hours and the gains aren't matching your expectation then you're probably overdoing the training. More training does not equate to more muscle.
jblaskiSerious question, how old are you? If you're under 25, I guarantee 100% that you can not physically lift hard enough, frequent enough, and long enough to reach the point of overtraining. 2 hours a day, 7 days a week won't get you there. Guaranteed.
TheHamburglarI didn't read the entire discussion, but I think overtraining is subjective to the individual. For example, I took a few days off from my regular training, which is a basic, medium-volume olympic program with lots of squats, cleans, pulls, jerks, whatever. When I came back after those few days off, I had a workout which was overhead squats, heavy single thruster, then an XTREME CROSSFIT WOD consisting of wallballs and burpees. I couldn't walk in a straight line when I was finished. The doms was real the next couple days and it took me almost a week for the soreness to subside enough so I could squat full rom again.
In my opinion, that's absolutely overtraining, to the point where I probably regressed instead of progressing. Had I taken it easier that first day back instead of going balls to the wall (literally) I could have made great progress that week. I'm a fairly new lifter though so I dunnnnno
S.J.WWhen I say over training, I'm not referring to getting rhdobo or all that shit. I'm just referring to people going over the point of equilibrium and not doing themselves any good apart from getting a nice little ego boost
