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Bus beheader granted unescorted trips.

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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,409
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/man-who-beheaded-bus-passenger-gets-unescorted-trips-from-hospital-1.1707209

http://globalnews.ca/news/1178228/public-safety-minister-slams-decision-to-allow-vince-li-unescorted-trips/

http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/the-man-who-decapitated-his-seatmate-on-a-greyhound-bus-in-winnipeg-is-getting-out

This is a story that hit really close to home as the brutal murder took place near Portage la Prairie, where I live part of the year. Basically Vince Li decapitated the man in the seat beside him, Tim McLean, with a so described 'rambo knife', then proceeded to saw off body parts and eat them. When he was arrested and searched more body parts were later found in his pockets. The end of the trial found Vince Li not criminally responsible for the murder due to mental illness.

On one hand I feel like some trust should be placed into the hands of the board who made this decision; it would also be a step concerning mental illness and other cases like this. That last part is pretty big considering how on board everyone in Canada seems to be with campaigns like Bell: Let's Talk and getting over the stigma's associated with mental illness. The stigmas persist heavily around this case though, no doubt.

On the other hand I feel like the disturbing nature of the murder would see to more long term supervision of Vince, and really should have had some kind of penalty to begin with. If he's off his meds as well I can see him being fairly dangerous as those supposedly have heavy control on him. The other thing I'd be worried about is the public's perception of him and how he would handle any negative situations that would come his way. We absolutely have some people up here who would beat the living shit out of this guy if opportunity raised, and this is the opportunity for those people. So how the hell is this guy going to take to confrontation like that?

Pretty crazy shit.
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Feb 28 2014 1:38AM
110 54
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yangumane
Posts: 1816 - Karma: 3,347
He should be killed, as he is insane and clearly not going to contribute to society in any positive way. I personally see no reason for this lethal injection bullshit either, one bullet (or more, if you're feeling liberal) is all it takes.
Feb 28 2014 1:43AM
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paige.
Posts: 1932 - Karma: 924
He's still living in a very high security mental institution with close monitoring. I'm sure if he's behaving anything less than ideally they wouldn't let him head out that day. Plus he has been having escorted visits into the town so they've been able to watch how he responds to those situations and encounters. If he was off his meds they wouldn't be making these recommendations, I'm sure the professionals working directly with him on a daily basis are capable of judging the risk.

Would I want him leaving the institution permanently? No way. But I don't see the harm in giving him a couple of hours outside the hospital from time to time.
Feb 28 2014 1:44AM
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Pancake_Fucker
Posts: 1842 - Karma: 1,909
If i had to sit next to him i'd wait for the next bus.
Feb 28 2014 1:48AM
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yangumane
Posts: 1816 - Karma: 3,347
that's not what I meant. there is a difference between disabilities such as autism, Aspergers, and other such disorders. I meant that people who are uncontrollably insane or psychotic. A man was brutally murdered in this case, and there is no reason (again, in my opinion) that he should live, wasting this country's resources to keep him imprisoned.
Feb 28 2014 2:19AM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
Posts like these piss me off you're, not a psychopath, and you don't have schizophrenia. you have no idea what it's like to sit in a chair and have a dark figure sitting next to you constantly saying kill yourself kill others. He is ill, should he die for somthing that is out of his control?
Feb 28 2014 3:13AM
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powderdrunkie
Posts: 2034 - Karma: 976
Im gonna go ahead and side with c3po on this one. I mean, he sawed off a persons head while others watched. He deserves not to live.
Feb 28 2014 4:54AM
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yangumane
Posts: 1816 - Karma: 3,347
and you do? what exactly is that like?
Feb 28 2014 6:13AM
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FreedGucci
Posts: 454 - Karma: 3,192
Holy shit that's fucked
Feb 28 2014 6:42AM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,085
don't forget he also ate some of the guy
Feb 28 2014 6:51AM
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Laurent.
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 25,313
The public will under no obligation accept this man back into society. Especially after an event like his, his image is ingrained in the public conscience. People will be eternally afraid of his unpredictability until the day he dies or is locked up for good.
Feb 28 2014 8:33AM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,362
Or...are you ready for it? We kill everyone who cuts off someones head
Feb 28 2014 9:09AM
12 1
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Puzzled
Posts: 4267 - Karma: 4,448
i know dat feel bro
Feb 28 2014 9:12AM
3 1
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
which in this case is probably the same.

people have to understand that this is not some "ooooh, where is my imaginary doge" crazy. if multiple doctors are willing to justify someone "getting away" with murder, he IS most definitely not right in the head.


and towards all you pseudo-nazis, please shut the fuck up. a persons right to live is not linked to his contributions to society. a guy sitting at home playing offline ego-shooters 24/7 isnt contributing to society all that much? is he allowed to live? what about a guy in a coma which he might or might not recover from?

the list goes on. i know the guy chopped someones head off. but if he is mentally handicapped, you simply cannot kill him. what about the other guys with the same problem? you kill them as well?

this is a very dangerous road youre stepping on and you should think about the consequences.
Feb 28 2014 9:40AM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13082 - Karma: 18,718
Schizophrenia is a mental disorder, not demon possession or serial criminal. You have to be living in the 1900s to treat mental disorder with punishment, torture and forced segregation. I trust psychologists believe he is responding to treatment.
He sincerely apologized for his action on national TV with his physicians and explained what happened in his mind. He was sick and delusional.  However, it will never sooth the tragedy.

Remember we are dealing with a human being, not a social slave.
Feb 28 2014 10:51AM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
Everyone in France?
Feb 28 2014 11:03AM
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DasGoatenshafter
Posts: 580 - Karma: 307
I wouldn't say that he needs to die, but definitely shouldn't be out on his lonesome where he could unintentionally be a threat to people.
Feb 28 2014 11:14AM
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Wallisch_pl
Posts: 5260 - Karma: 1,022
as a person who lives in Portage la Prairie, i am glad to see him free
Feb 28 2014 11:23AM
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.Apex.
Posts: 2097 - Karma: 1,556
Rapid Dog? Kill it. Fucked up Asian? Kill it... Simplz
Feb 28 2014 1:35PM
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SFB
Posts: 8895 - Karma: 26,352
you are my least favorite member of ns
Feb 28 2014 1:40PM
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k-rob
Posts: 14217 - Karma: 2,891
i find that offensive
Feb 28 2014 1:47PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
Should the man riding the bus home get decapitated and eaten because someone else was sick?

It's not a simple situation.
Feb 28 2014 1:49PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
Or anyone on NS with more than 30,000 posts.

But seriously I'm quoting because you made a great point. We should also all highlight how intelligent and non-NS this thread has been. Bravo everybody.
Feb 28 2014 1:55PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
No he shouldn't have, but it happened and killing him now wont bring the guy back.
Feb 28 2014 2:08PM
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saskskier
Posts: 4774 - Karma: 10,005
Do you realize that Schizophrenia is controllable? One of my cousins has it and he has his own, successful business. He has tough days, but also has tons of support from his family. With the right medications and supports put in place, there is no reason why Mr. Li couldn't be a productive member of society.


Feb 28 2014 2:30PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
I didn't suggest killing him, or anything else actually.
Feb 28 2014 3:06PM
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Gods_Father
Posts: 1466 - Karma: -284
maybe the boy just needed a pussy.
Feb 28 2014 6:04PM
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yangumane
Posts: 1816 - Karma: 3,347
yes, that may be what I said, but not what I meant. by saying the 'contribute to society' thing, I was just trying to add another point to my argument, which has rightly been proved invalid by some NS'ers on here. I just meant that we shouldn't put as much weight on the fact he has a mental disability, and more on the fact he killed, dismembered, and ate a dude on a bus. If this man was your closest friend, your brother, or another person you love, how would you feel?

Sorry for not being more clear in my earlier posts
Feb 28 2014 6:44PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
I agree that this situation is extremely fucked up in that people are so ready to dismiss the crime at hand simply due to disability. This poor guy wasn't just killed, he was massacred in front of the public and his family and the world knows it.

On the other hand the killer was disabled which sucks because this couldn't really have been prevented and now he has to live with the consequences. Everyone loses and the family has to watch the killer walk around their neighborhood and stand in line with him at the grocery. It's all just messed up beyond belief and I don't think there is a correct answer as to how to make it any better.
Feb 28 2014 6:49PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
I understand what you're trying to say, but your argument is actually fantastic for someone trying to prove that he should be held accountable. The reason he wasn't convicted was because his disability rendered him uncontrollable, but now you are saying the disease is controllable.

I do realize medication and support is necessary but I'm just trying to spark more debate, this case is super interesting.
Feb 28 2014 6:54PM
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saskskier
Posts: 4774 - Karma: 10,005
I know. It's a crazy situation. I don't necessarily believe he should be released and I absolutely believe he should be held accountable. I'm just not sure what that accountability should look like.

Mr. Li's case is an extreme example of what can happen when someone with Schizophrenia is off their meds. The disorder is definitely controllable (at least in many cases. As with all disorders, there are different levels of severity) with medication and support.

There seems to be a lot of confusion and misinformation in this thread regarding someone with schizophrenia and a psychopath. Mr. Li is the former and should not be confused with the latter. He showed remorse for what he did where a psychopath wouldn't. Mr. Li was responding to stimulus and operating in a world that didn't exist outside of his head where a psychopath would be perfectly aware of the world around him.
Feb 28 2014 7:25PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51595 - Karma: 161,755
C. This is a fucking awesome thread title
Feb 28 2014 7:49PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
Well, it's a good thing he's not from your country than isn't it? Wouldn't want to waste your money keeping mentally ill people alive, supervised, dealing with and working on their illness.

Probably best to just kill all the mentally unstable people and keep your jails full of pot smokers.

If you're going to attack the American prison system, don't start with a mentally ill Canadian which has nothing to do with your system - which is probably the most broken system in the world.
Feb 28 2014 8:10PM
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liftedresearcher
Posts: 1140 - Karma: 1,774
today in Edmonton, an employee walked in to the warehouse he worked at and stabbed 6 people, killing 2.

in 2010, the same man was arrested for uttering death threats and burning a heart shaped fire in front of his house, he under went a psychiatric assessment and was found to be "normal".


obviously they assessed this man wrong, and look what happened, 4 years later, he kills 2 and injures 4 others. who says this wont happen with Vince Li. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live or work anywhere near him. letting him leave his institution without an escort is fucking ludicrous. its truly scary if you think about it. walking the same streets with a man who not even 6 years ago, cut a man's head off and ate parts of his body.

i really don't think that Vince Li should be allowed in public ever again. I have no faith in the canadian justice system or the doctors who "assess" these people. Its just to risky to rely on meds or whatever to keep these people from bringing harm to the public.




Feb 28 2014 8:15PM
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Scaredwhiteboy
Posts: 1395 - Karma: -938
I don't care if you're mentally retarded or not, if you commit a crime like that you should never see the light of day again.
Feb 28 2014 8:17PM
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90053
Posts: 2565 - Karma: 3,728
i'm gonna end up writing something stupid because i'm tired...

..but how do you distinguish between people who are morally corrupted to the point they would murder random people and people who are psychologically insane? In society today surely anyone who would carry out such a horrendous act is deemed insane?

how about a sane person who committed murder and it could be proven beyond reasonable doubt that they would never commit an act of such nature before? Who is of more danger to society the predictable sane person or the less predictable insane person?

do we lock up people because of the danger they possess or the moral wrongs they have committed?

Feb 28 2014 8:18PM
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90053
Posts: 2565 - Karma: 3,728
*again
Feb 28 2014 8:20PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
There are the things called doctors that look people to answer that question.
Feb 28 2014 8:26PM
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yangumane
Posts: 1816 - Karma: 3,347
you're damn right I don't want to waste my money on someone else who happens to be mentally disabled. why would I pay taxes to have someone who committed a heinous crime stay alive? many other people have the same disorder as he does, but they haven't killed, dissected, and eaten other humans. Also, I didn't say all mentally unstable people, I said people who commit crimes like these.
Feb 28 2014 8:27PM
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90053
Posts: 2565 - Karma: 3,728
are you saying that a doctor can understand the complexities of the human mind and how someone will behave in the future with a justifiable amount of certainty? Especially when analysing the mind of someone with a mental disorder?
Feb 28 2014 8:35PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
not 100% what your trying to say but I read it as if i person kills because he wants too, and another kills because he's insane can we tell the diffrence.
Feb 28 2014 8:38PM
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90053
Posts: 2565 - Karma: 3,728
i need to sleep
Feb 28 2014 8:41PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
You should redirect your energy towards not wasting money on putting pot smokers in jail instead of this. Unstable people who are potential risks to society belong in institutions, not just killed off. I'd even go as far as to say they are the only people who truly should be institutionalized.

Look at the bigger picture and what the real problem is, not just single cases on their own and make rash judgements.
Feb 28 2014 8:44PM
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saskskier
Posts: 4774 - Karma: 10,005
I'm not saying I'm stoked they are letting Li out, however the difference between him and the Edmonton dude is he has absolutely no criminal history prior to the Greyhound. Maybe they got the Edmonton guy wrong? Maybe he didn't have mental health issues and was just a bad dude?

Obviously Li is stable and on medication and he has been closely monitored for the past 6 years. The team of people he has been working with will have a better idea of his mental health than you ever will.

The scary part isn't the fact that they are letting Li out, but rather how many people are out there who either haven't been diagnosed or aren't currently on medication.
Feb 28 2014 8:44PM
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Wallisch_pl
Posts: 5260 - Karma: 1,022
Yeah probably already posted, but in that article it says specifically he's in better shape than most all others that are released
Feb 28 2014 10:18PM
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