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Tennessee poised to become first state in the US to provide free college education to all High School graduates.

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Guck
Posts: 528 - Karma: 221
Not sure how I feel about this, could lead to an even more over saturated job market, but it will also give people who couldn't afford college the opportunity. Opinions?

http://www.wate.com/story/24623777/gov-haslam-makes-education-top-priority-in-state-of-the-state-address
Feb 5 2014 2:26PM
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Jeebus.
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 5,822
An oversatured job market haha, what do you call the job market now?
Feb 5 2014 2:27PM
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shocker611
Posts: 2599 - Karma: 423
hint hint "an even more saturated".
Feb 5 2014 2:33PM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
I didn't read the article, but did they mention how long you need to be a resident of the state or anything like that? If this goes through, I could see a bunch of people moving to Tennessee before their kids enter high school simply for free college tuition.
Feb 5 2014 5:05PM
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theBearJew
Posts: 10951 - Karma: 15,633
It is for a 2 year community college or a technical school. Not a 4 year university. I dont think that will make a huge difference. Maybe for most people who can't afford a university and will help them get an education, but people will still choose to pay for a university over a free 2 year technical school.
Feb 5 2014 5:21PM
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Guck
Posts: 528 - Karma: 221
You're right, but my thinking was, you do your two years and your foot is in the door. Then you have possible scholarships and it's much easier to only afford two years. It will definitely open many more doors to those kind of people.
Feb 5 2014 5:28PM
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theBearJew
Posts: 10951 - Karma: 15,633
And I hope it does. I don't think economically you can give people free 4 year education at a university. But 2 year colleges help people get to the next level and can give them an edge on employment where they were unable to before.
Feb 5 2014 5:34PM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7481 - Karma: 11,497
Better include trade schools. If this governor has any idea about where job openings are, he would incentivize going to one.
Feb 5 2014 5:51PM
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AT-AT
Posts: 3281 - Karma: 3,256
There are so many openings in the trades, and you can make some good money in them as well. As for "free", nothing is free,it just means those who are broke ass steal more from those who work. Idk about you guys but im sick of paying 33% of my salary to the gvt. Im sick of paying school taxes for a school system that is designed to fail, and property taxes were all i get in return is a road to my house, and a shitty police department to "protect me", not to mention an 8% sales tax so the governor can get blowjobs on state time. Shit has to stop.
Feb 8 2014 8:54PM
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Dr.Dealgood
Posts: 2587 - Karma: 1,352
I disagree.

It would make a HUGE difference.

IMO our utter lack of manufacturing is completely complicit in our economic problems. We look to Wall St, the government, economic thinkers, sociologists, everywhere really for some bullshit magic manna from heaven to turn everything around instead of actually just going back to work.

Teaching each other how to make things, honing crafts and skillsets, and progressing our capabilities leading to developing new technologies, materials, and etc at home instead of creatively outsourcing not only our products but our collective intellectual development.
Feb 8 2014 8:59PM
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Wallisch_pl
Posts: 5260 - Karma: 1,022
Oh, well if it's only a cc that's fine ig.
Feb 8 2014 9:02PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
i live in a country where colleges are free since like always. and the people in my town, my age, not even 10% went to college.

just wait what happens and you will see. dont panick the fuck.
Feb 9 2014 6:06AM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,029
If you do well in school you can find assistance already. Nothing wrong with community colleges or trade schools either. Hey, they may even get a job quicker than those Graphing Design b.a.'s it seems a lot of people ask about...
Feb 9 2014 7:24AM
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pow_pow~
Posts: 1429 - Karma: 1,804
just off the top of my head i know that France gives 4 year uni educations for free. medicine + law included. im sure plenty of other countries do aswell.
Feb 9 2014 7:54AM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
some of the most economically sound countries in europe do just that.

it just depends on how youre using tax money. what are your priorities? taxes arent even THAT high in some of those.
Feb 9 2014 8:18AM
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-benedetto
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 1,359
Financial aid already does a ton. This may open some opportunities or have some teens realize their potential. However, honestly, not much should change besides no longer having to pay ridiculous tuition bills for 15 years. I have the GI bill and think everyone should have a chance in state colleges..

Feb 9 2014 8:48AM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7481 - Karma: 11,497
Aye. And their highest tax income bracket is now at 75%. Honestly, fuck that. Think we have a problem with offshore money and tax loopholes now? Imagine if that happened.

These doctors also do not make anywhere near the amount their American counterparts do and lack the same cutting edge processes and machinery that are so readily available to the hospitals in NYC, Boston, Texas, Chicago, California, etc. While they obviously are not incompetent, they are not world renowned like the US medical system is.

Its wrong to compare a country like the United States to that of one in the EU or such. Economic policies that work for one will not work for the other. Population numbers alone make it much more difficult, let alone differences in law, governmental powers, and our ever growing debt.
Feb 9 2014 10:59AM
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howlongcanausern
Posts: 4982 - Karma: 1,737
pfff HAHAHA oh wow. really? wow.
Feb 9 2014 11:07AM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7481 - Karma: 11,497
Yes actually. As someone who has had multiple family members need the top surgeons/doctors in the world for various reasons, they are almost all located within the United States.


Note I did not say efficient, nor did I say accessible. I said "best" as in most advanced.
Feb 9 2014 11:25AM
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Lucas
Posts: 4881 - Karma: 1,575
Nobody should be denied the option of an education because of a lack of money. This is a good step even if it's not for a university.
Feb 9 2014 11:26AM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,750
that is one of the most flawed articles I've read.

First off, of course the US will be publishing the most articles, most of the journals are based in the US. The article actually doesn't say if it's looking at each article on a per-country basis or if it's just counting all the publications that have come out of a country on a per-journal basis. I'm assuming they're doing it on a per-journal basis since it would be rather a lot of work to do it on a per article basis and judging by the quality of the article, the author did not put much effort into this.

Same goes for citation/article. Most of the big name papers are out of the US, so the high impact articles are going to be published in that country.


This is supported by the fact that the UK is second, since while they don't have a lot of research themselves compared to other countries, they have a lot of journals based out of there. Some being very high impact.



Secondly, many researchers go to US to study and are based out of US school since the US is saturated in great universities. Now I'd wonder what the breakdown of authors by nationality is for all those same articles. It certainly wouldn't be nearly half from US, that's for sure.



very flawed article. Also just based on the fact that the author put horizontal lines on his graph leads me to believe he really doesn't know much about biology in the first place, so why he's Forbe's biology person is beyond me.
Feb 9 2014 12:14PM
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LiquorLanch
Posts: 1909 - Karma: 1,046
The issue in America, at the very least is that there is a huge emphasis on going to college over a trade school and this itself would be very hard to reverse in America.
Feb 9 2014 4:55PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
well, everything is in flux, maybe it works, maybe it wont.

i am just tired of all these right-wing nutjobs pointing at the constitution on every single thing that remotely goes against their "god-given" rights.

if you really want to pay no taxes, care for noone than yourself, go create your own country.
Feb 9 2014 4:58PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51642 - Karma: 162,222
Another "freebie" from the government.


And came in here to say what's already been said about trades being where it's at. Many times far cheaper, less time, and actually chance of getting a job than your 4 year degree in spinning quarters on a desk.
Feb 9 2014 6:05PM
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pow_pow~
Posts: 1429 - Karma: 1,804
your economic policies dont even work for your own country. despite what yourself and your fellow americans obviously think, the united states is not a great super power anymore, it isnt so much more advanced than other countries than you actually think.



also, despite what you think, many people who enter medicine dont do it for the money. there are many other career paths that will have you earning more money without spending 15 years on next to nothing. yes at the top your doctors earn quite a bit, but that just goes to show that your healthcare system is the biggest laughing stock of the world and it is a fucking mess. its world renowned for being a shit fight.

i read an article from a patient who had a two night stay in the hospital. i cant remember all the figures off the top off my head (they were ridiculous),but he was charged $800 for a bag of salt fucking water that costs less than $1 to produce. just goes to show that privatisation is not always the best option.


just because the education is free, such as in france, it isnt a handout like some people have suggested. i didnt actually read this article so im not commenting on this proposition. but students still need to work for it. they cant just rock up and take an engineering or medicine degree. they have to have the marks for it. and it is very competitive, because its free. it allows a whole population of people that are smart enough, but could not afford it, to go for it. because they can.



Free healthcare and free education are both considered the standard nowadays. something that the united states has dropped the ball on. im glad i live in a country where both of those options are available.
Feb 10 2014 2:36AM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7481 - Karma: 11,497
I am not debating our economic policies. I know they are a mess. Anyone with a brain can see that. We may not be an economic superpower, but we are a military superpower ands all that matters! (/troll response). And you said "much more" which indicates you still believe we are more advanced so, despite our economic and political shitshow, we still are able to pride ourselves on a few things ;).


You may not enter medicine for money, but you certainly need it to become a doctor. Fixing healthcare must go hand-in-hand with fixing education costs. But the problem is, as I have stated a multitude of times, it is next to impossible to implement given the size of our country.

You expect our government of all people to fund the trillions of dollars worth of educational costs to give people a chance at education? Ha. That my friend will be the day. Considering we can hardly provide our veterans with assistance, why should we take a risk and pay for people, including former illegal immigrants, drug addicts, criminals, etc. the ability to take classes and possibly waste money? If you have not noticed, we have 6 trillion dollars worth of debt and it is rising every single day. A "risky" investment like this would not go over well with the politicians.

I am not against BETTER access to education, but at this day and age it is too difficult and costly for our country to take on. Same goes with healthcare. It is a wonderful prospect, but our shit show of an economy and joke of a political system are some rather large barriers.

Feb 10 2014 7:30AM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7481 - Karma: 11,497
Here is an interesting PBS article on why one Harvard economists believes the US has such a high cost on health care.



Feb 10 2014 7:39AM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
so what about restructuring that shit and do something about it?

maybe i get you wrong but your point is basically that the US cannot afford certain shit because of fucked up, inefficient structures and you cannot do anything about it.



and i know the US debt is pretty high, but dont act like all of it is "bad". there is a "optimal" level of country debts, and its certainly NOT 0.
Feb 10 2014 7:58AM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7481 - Karma: 11,497
You have me half right. I think we can and will restructure our system, but right now is not the time. We need to turn around our trade deficit into a surplus for a few years, lower unemployment to a more "appropriate" level, hopefully stay out of conflicts, and then as a result we will have more flexibility within the political sphere. This will allow the population to turn away from the recent negative economic issues and direct its attention towards controllable outcomes.

Honestly, if we didnt have two incompetent political parties this process would be much easier. Instead, most of the attention is concentrated on the war these two are fighting with each other. Without sounding to cliche, we are fighting a war within ourself which is rendering us unable to see the larger picture. Our, the US voting age, population is so negative with the whole political process due to the fact our parties now attack each other rather than advocate their own ideas in depth and succinctly. The US voting population is perhaps one of the most uninformed in the entire world despite the wide access to information. Partially that is due to the media, but it is reinforced by the politicians inability to break the cycle.
Feb 10 2014 8:33AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51642 - Karma: 162,222
Lol at people talking about our debt as if it's not even bad. Our economy blows and has for a long time.
Feb 10 2014 10:16AM
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kevmac
Posts: 347 - Karma: 1,172
Tennessee is one of the poorest states i think that is a great idea
Feb 10 2014 10:20AM
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cool_name
Posts: 4295 - Karma: 3,131
start at 38:30, he explains exactly why this is a stupid idea. if you have time the whole video is great
Feb 14 2014 3:23AM
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WaffleMaster
Posts: 661 - Karma: 5,565
inb4 employers start to look for people who took an additional 4 years after THAT.

I never really understood the whole "no child left behind" thing, or why schools brag about having 96% graduation. How are employers (which are the reason we are educated) supposed to skim the top tiers at all.
Feb 14 2014 4:29AM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
i just hear "free markets" blablablabla all over the place.

no offense, but our society evolves, everything evolves, so i think a guy who was born in 1912 can solve this issue.

his logic is basically that everybody will be taxed, but only richer people will go to college? he cites one study on one college back from the 80s/70s and generalizes it?

havent heard that criticism all that much. you right wingers/free market nutjobs have to make up your mind what the problem is.

obviously, not every problem in the world will be solved by this. but my god, let tennesse try it and if its a complete failure, then come back. such socio-economic matters cannot be predicted with the mathematical models milton friedman proposed/used in his life (at least the publicized stuff of all those classical theories).

demand and supply arent simple functions that you can equal and things are good. there are dozens of influences not in the model. there are hundreds of subsequent "periods" not in the model. how will employers, poor people, regular universities react? well, noone knows, but at least i dont act like i know it all.
Feb 15 2014 10:26AM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
Not the first ny did this about 40 years ago.
Feb 15 2014 10:46AM
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cool_name
Posts: 4295 - Karma: 3,131
I'm on mobile so have to quote the whole thing,

The video is like a hour long so I don't know if you bothered to watch the rest, but one of his big points is that know will spend someone's money as carefully as they will and as he tried to explain those going to college will go either way so it simple isn't as efficient as if the people attending the school just paid for it them selves.

If you want I can post a longer reply from PC sometime because at least personally I find economic debates/policy really interesting
Feb 16 2014 5:28PM
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KravtZ
Posts: 6637 - Karma: 2,629
Glad to see some sort of initiative like this, but I dont think it realistically wil solve any problems, if anything make them worse. By flooding the college market with kids who may or may not have gone to school, the price is going to rise for 4 year degrees, also that 2 year degree that those kids get for free is going to be more or less pretty usless.
Feb 16 2014 8:08PM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7481 - Karma: 11,497
"Free Markets" in todays world are not free like originally envisioned. There are more government restrictions, social constraints, and other impeding factors that most original believers could not foresee just like you said. No one can actually consider anything in the US a free market. I cant comment on the EU, but I imagine there are similar restrictions against free market opportunities like originally envisioned.


Feb 16 2014 8:37PM
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