Ukraine Outbreak

Posts: 3057 - Karma: 438

Karma: 438

Posts: 3057

Addict

Totally know what you mean Phil. Perfect example. Mandela died an I waited all day to see if someone would say something, alas all I read about was the tragedy heard round the world, the star of fast and furious dying in a wreck less driving incident... Seriously people??

Jan 23 2014 8:18PM

2 1

whoa-dere

Posts: 10596 - Karma: 7,103

Karma: 7,103

Posts: 10596

Crazy Fool

haha

Jan 23 2014 8:22PM

4 1

Posts: 4798 - Karma: -676

Karma: -676

Posts: 4798

No Life

This is all Russia's doing. Going back to the USSR days Ukraine was the crown jewel of their satellite states. Ukranian politics has always been the pro Russia people vs those who want independence. Russia don't want them in the EU.

Nice to see this stuff happening before the Olympics. I think they should be cancelled actually but it won't happen and there will be bad terrorist attacks.

Jan 23 2014 8:24PM

5 0

Phil-X-

Posts: 7205 - Karma: 14,399

Karma: 14,399

Posts: 7205

Crazy Fool

Yea man... its everything.

Sometimes I'll post a status on facebook that is very politically sided just to initiate actual intelligent 100+ comment discussions. I'll get a pretty good amount of people inputing their stances and ideas, lots of constructive arguing and exchanges of ideas.

Then I see people post statuses like "Hate when people post (politics/news/w.e.) on facebook!!! No one cares!!"

WELL YOU SHOULD FUCKING CARE..... We have a "Social Network" that has never been available before, where we can discuss anything and link to endless amounts of databases and knowledge... but all you care about are pictures of my lunch and Jessicas trip to Cabo???? Why choose to be so ignorant?

Its like all the people who are all about ___ politician.... yet couldn't name 3 of their policy stances

Jan 23 2014 8:26PM

7 1

Posts: 12794 - Karma: 32,719

Karma: 32,719

Posts: 12794

Crazy Fool

looks like an epic rock concert

Jan 23 2014 8:44PM

19 0

Posts: 3057 - Karma: 438

Karma: 438

Posts: 3057

Addict

Ill post a burger from five guys and get 40 likes, post an article about putins outrageous production of the Olympics in Russia.. Crickets.. Heaven forbid you have to read more than a paragraph folks...

Jan 23 2014 9:03PM

3 1

Posts: 4798 - Karma: -676

Karma: -676

Posts: 4798

No Life

Eh, I might get off that high horse.

I posted educated thought out commentary on Mandela's death on this website and there was no thought out debate or anything just the usual 'rip what a hero and influence to me' bullshit.

What you have to realize is that its the educated people in this country who are the moronic sheep not your trailer dweller who only cares about nascar and hates obama because hating obama is culturally cool if you are a white male who drives a pickup truck and listens to country. While that stereotypical redneck might be an idiot when it comes to current events a college educated middle class person probably isn't much more informed and is just as brainwashed and stupid.

When Mandela became president of SA he spent nothing on social programs or education. He was a paranoid former terrorist who thought SA's neighbors would move against him or have territorial ambitions and thus he spent all their money on defense and fighter jets and shit like that. The guy was a peice of shit however he stood for political correctness so was a manufactured hero. Now I respect the guy from a certain angle since the apartheid regime he overcame was wrong and nasty but the fact that his regime was WORSE is completely irrelevant to most.

So basically if you are a college educated person who can't understand that an asshole like Mandela ended up being worse than one of the most horrible regimes on the planet you are effectively 10x dumber than the toothless trailer trash obama hating redneck I referenced earlier.

Jan 23 2014 9:14PM

2 1

theabortionator

Posts: 51594 - Karma: 161,748

Karma: 161,748

Posts: 51594

Play Ball

Facebook is only good for misinformed viral bullshit and circle jerk feel good totally bullshit stories.

Jan 23 2014 9:30PM

2 0

qazwsxedc34

Posts: 2940 - Karma: 2,147

Karma: 2,147

Posts: 2940

Addict

A very powerful picture to say the least

[IMG]http://thumbs.newschoolers.com/index.php?src=http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/334279/slide_334279_3346487_free.jpg&size=400x1000[/IMG]

Jan 23 2014 9:39PM

1 0

qazwsxedc34

Posts: 2940 - Karma: 2,147

Karma: 2,147

Posts: 2940

Addict

Jan 23 2014 9:40PM

7 0

Posts: 3281 - Karma: 3,256

Karma: 3,256

Posts: 3281

Addict

My favorite was Iceland's overthrow of its government. There was almost no news coverage on a successful overthrow of a first world nation. Its ridiculous.

Jan 23 2014 9:41PM

3 0

Dr.Dealgood

Posts: 2587 - Karma: 1,352

Karma: 1,352

Posts: 2587

Addict

Anyone want to talk about the actual issue, instead of talking around the issue? We've got a ball, but it's not rolling.

I'll start with some broad strokes.

This sort of coverage disaster (could we call it a coverage apartheid, abstractly speaking?) reminds me of Iceland's revolution, a slow grueling process that ended up with some startling changes and in my mind pretty progressive changes.

But I recall the coverage to be exceptionally devoid--save for, interestingly enough the utter tanking of their economy: oh what a failure, oh who will help lonely Iceland, oh those amateur capitalists made some real mistakes... and then HOUDINI, the issue evaporated except for very occasional blips. No big house media coverage on what they were doing to repair themselves, no retrospective pieces, no nothing.

And now we have the sort of same coverage "phenomenon" going on in the Ukraine.

I know two doesn't count amount to "pathological bias" but when the scope widens and you consider what populates the news cycle most consistently, it's not much of a surprise. (Even though it is sort of shocking.)

I'm curious as to where people stand on this notion: is the general public simply unwilling to want to listen to this sort of thing? Why do you think the big conglomerates stay away from this? Pacifier? Disinterest? Distraction? Is American news conditioned to the point where it comes off as benign and detached observer of the meaningless? How recent a phenomenon is this? I mean you could argue it goes way back to the last turn of a century when Upton Sinclair was railing big newspapers as being service industries.

Thoughts, stances, opinions, pontifications, corrections, clarifications, questions... Fire away.

Jan 23 2014 9:42PM

2 0

yeahno

Posts: 4008 - Karma: 3,414

Karma: 3,414

Posts: 4008

No Life

Couldn't care less

Jan 23 2014 9:44PM

2 6

theabortionator

Posts: 51594 - Karma: 161,748

Karma: 161,748

Posts: 51594

Play Ball

Is that dude wearing a colander on his head?

Jan 23 2014 9:48PM

6 0

Phil-X-

Posts: 7205 - Karma: 14,399

Karma: 14,399

Posts: 7205

Crazy Fool

For those unaware, basically when the USSR broke up, Russia created a bunch of small "satellite" countries. These countries were kinda bullshit because they were still ran by soviets in power. Now Ukraine is deciding between the UN and Russia in alliance. The people want UN, Ukraines Gov and Russia want russian alliance.

Jan 23 2014 9:48PM

3 0

Posts: 3281 - Karma: 3,256

Karma: 3,256

Posts: 3281

Addict

Ukraine is the largest country in Europe by land mass, the 28th largest country in the world by population at 44.8 million, and has a GDP of 175.5 Billion. You should probably care a little.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine

Jan 23 2014 9:51PM

6 0

a_pla5tic_bag

Posts: 9215 - Karma: 5,398

Karma: 5,398

Posts: 9215

Crazy Fool

better than this guy

Jan 23 2014 9:54PM

6 0

Posts: 4798 - Karma: -676

Karma: -676

Posts: 4798

No Life

Kiev is a pro Russian part of Ukraine as well which makes these scenes even more significant.

I think the people just see Rumania and Poland in the EU and are demanding it for themselves.

There is already a shit ton of Ukrainians in the UK expect mass immigration if they get into the EU.

Jan 23 2014 10:03PM

1 0

Posts: 3057 - Karma: 438

Karma: 438

Posts: 3057

Addict

Cool story bro. Doesn't change he is one of the most influential people in history and is and was a symbol for civil rights. I'll just trot along on my horse thank you very much.

Not really sure what you're getting at.. everyone is dumb but you?

Jan 23 2014 10:15PM

2 0

a_pla5tic_bag

Posts: 9215 - Karma: 5,398

Karma: 5,398

Posts: 9215

Crazy Fool

also i didn't see anyone talk about it, but they used the gps function on peoples cell phones and sent messages to those in certain areas where protests were occurring about how the holder of this phone is involved in protesting.

Jan 23 2014 10:18PM

1 0

Posts: 3057 - Karma: 438

Karma: 438

Posts: 3057

Addict

I heard theyre operating inside of like a media communications net, where all web transmissions are being recorded and watched. That's for all people there, not just Russians, but journalists, tourists etc. Pretty sketch.

Jan 23 2014 10:23PM

1 0

RimJobber

Posts: 3313 - Karma: 10,058

Karma: 10,058

Posts: 3313

Addict

Here's the thing though. IMO the government is trying to cover this up too. Its gonna sound like a conspiracy, but whats an easy way to cover something as big as this up? Blow something like Beibers arrest out of proportion. If I were high up in the government, I wouldnt want people focusing on that either. A first world country that is oppressing its citizens is in a revolution now. You think that our government wants the US to see whats going on and get any ideas? Hell no.
The government is going to control what they want us to see. Snowden leaks? How much did that get covered up and how much useless bullshit got blown out of proportion when that happened.
I'm probably sounding crazy saying this, but this definitely isnt just people being stupid. I think that there is a lot more government involvement than we think.
Something this big could open the eyes to a lot of people. The US doesnt want any revolutions of our own

Jan 23 2014 10:25PM

4 1

Dr.Dealgood

Posts: 2587 - Karma: 1,352

Karma: 1,352

Posts: 2587

Addict

That's frequently attempted, but I'm not aware of an instance where it's been this flagrant and this publicized.

Maybe a test run for US/Russia surveillance tech for Sochi. That's supposed to be a joke, but they are actually sharing intel and equipment. That's gotta be a first. Of course there's still a ton of worry about soft targets outside the village itself what with the black widow bombers still at large.

I imagine though that a fair number of those people or at least central figures in the protest are utilizing encryption software and the TOR network to sidestep or at least slow down their counterpart's surveillance. I also imagine whatever they do find and track that it's being recorded... and depending on who ends up on top in this it will be interesting if some sort of prosecution will be launched. Well not interesting... sickening really. But interesting from a "detached western perspective."

Jan 23 2014 10:27PM

1 0

SFB

Posts: 8895 - Karma: 26,352

Karma: 26,352

Posts: 8895

Crazy Fool

i think you are 100% wrong. american people haven't had a successful protest since the revolution. also why would anyone in america start a revoltuion? most people in america just dont give a shit and cant be bothered to try and change anything and the government knows this. and its not like our government is some big bad entity trying opress its citizens.

Jan 23 2014 10:29PM

5 0

Posts: 3281 - Karma: 3,256

Karma: 3,256

Posts: 3281

Addict

I strongly agree with you

Jan 23 2014 10:30PM

2 2

Halo1junkie

Posts: 202 - Karma: 435

Karma: 435

Posts: 202

Loner

That first vid is 7 hrs long op

Jan 23 2014 10:31PM

1 0

RimJobber

Posts: 3313 - Karma: 10,058

Karma: 10,058

Posts: 3313

Addict

I'm not saying we're North Korea, but we're definitely not like a Sweden or something when it comes to trustworthy governments. They have more control over stuff than you think. You cant deny that they did everything they possibly could to cover up the Snowden leaks, which in my opinion was pretty huge.
I'll agree with you on that a lot of the citizens truly dont give a fuck, which is a bad thing, because that means that the country could be manipulated pretty quickly. If we arent playing an active role in our country and letting a small percentage the of the population slowly take control over it, things will definitely end bad. I told you it was gonna sound conspiracy theory-ish, because it totally it. I do think that we are being censored more than we think and that the government is going to control what they want us to see and hear.

Jan 23 2014 10:35PM

1 1

Posts: 4798 - Karma: -676

Karma: -676

Posts: 4798

No Life

No just political correctness is put before everything and flawed but significant characters will have their flaws papered over in the name of political correctness. Of course you'll stay on your high horse you don't have to live there and can make yourself feel like a good person for being on the side of a just cause.

There are plenty of intelligent people out there however most make themselves dumber by feeling the need to have conformist views that are supportive of the corporate militaristic culture we live in these days. Very few people have the courage to speak the truth.

Just look at sports. Name me one modern athlete who deserves to be mentioned in the same sentence as Mohammed Ali let alone compared to him? (And Ali like Mandela was a flawed individual and caught heat for his shortcomings back then there was far more transparency towards popular figures.) We have a society of sheep being led by a minute handful of people who are relentlessly furthering the wealth disparity and doing whatever they can to ensure the elite 1% pay as little tax as possible.

But fuck it maybe I'm wrong and should act like everyone else and be another sheep. Let me tag some twitter things to show how good a person I am and my patriotism.

#neverforget911

#iraqiwarwasjustifiedandagreatvictory

#soldeirskeepmesaveeventhoughthereisnothreatofinvasion

#ilovethetroops

#ilovecountrymusicandmypickuptruckfuckobama

#universalhealthcaresucksilikemyhighcopaymentsandIcanneverlosemyjobillhavethishealthcareuntilIdiefuckobamacare

Jan 23 2014 10:36PM

2 1

Dr.Dealgood

Posts: 2587 - Karma: 1,352

Karma: 1,352

Posts: 2587

Addict

I used to think RimJobber's stance was fucking ludicrous. But every now and again I catch myself speculating at it with varying degrees of sincerity.

I agree with SFB too. We're lazy. But what if we got INSPIYAHD. (SFB shoutout, thanks for the reg lolz)

So long as the news cycles chugs out Beiber being a 6 year old stuck in a 16 year old's body, Duck Dynasty having an identity crisis and a made up constitutional crisis, Miley being a hoe in general and passing it off as artful expression, the list goooooeeessssss on. That's all most people will ever be concerned about.

HOWEVER, there have been (especially in the last two years) more and more and more secssionist movements going on. Some are old, some are new. E&W Washington, parts of Colorado, Border towns, Texas, Vermont, the ongoing Cascadia movement, there's a lot small groups out there pushing to open a dialogue. I'm not saying it's gonna happen, constitutionally it's essentially an impossibility.

There's even a group out there working on sea-steading. Yes, that's right homesteading on the ocean in mega structures in order to perform governmental experiments: new approaches to social and govermental structure.

That last point is the most interesting to me. Their point is that established governments are too entrenched to even entertain the idea of changing the modus operandi. People endowed with power on every side of the aisle and marketplace have no incentive to change anything. But what if new experiments could happen? What if the very idea that an experiment could be worthwhile got off the ground? Iceland and now Ukraine's revolution (and other's going on in the world) are not really showcased anywhere in the media.

Jan 23 2014 10:38PM

5 0

Halo1junkie

Posts: 202 - Karma: 435

Karma: 435

Posts: 202

Loner

I agree alot of college kids are idiots, but i dont think mandela was that bad

Jan 23 2014 10:44PM

2 0

Posts: 12794 - Karma: 32,719

Karma: 32,719

Posts: 12794

Crazy Fool

Michael Jordan, Roger Federer, Pele.

Jan 23 2014 10:45PM

4 0

Posts: 4798 - Karma: -676

Karma: -676

Posts: 4798

No Life

I am not referring to athletic ability.

I am refering to making a stand and throwing away a career in objection to a bullshit war.

Jan 23 2014 10:48PM

1 0

Posts: 4798 - Karma: -676

Karma: -676

Posts: 4798

No Life

Your probably too young to remember the late 90s when this hero was a president and there was a lot of questioning of why he was spending so much money on armaments and nothing on social programs.

But that is forgotten these days of course.

Hey, Ghandi is almost hated in India because he fucked up a lot of things with his peaceful policies resultingin muslims and hindus living amongst each other unpeacefully when they would not have had it not been for him. I don't mean to deamonize Mandela. I just think its ludacris that when he died all the bad stuff he did was forgotten and how terrible a president he was was rendered irrelevant.

Jan 23 2014 10:50PM

2 1

qazwsxedc34

Posts: 2940 - Karma: 2,147

Karma: 2,147

Posts: 2940

Addict

If one person here votes for Hilary Clinton I will behead every single person in congress.

Jan 23 2014 11:20PM

2 3

The.Doctor

Posts: 194 - Karma: 832

Karma: 832

Posts: 194

Pro

Newschoolers has temporarily restored my faith in humanity. So far the only amount of intelligence I've found on the internet today.

Jan 23 2014 11:21PM

4 1

Dwarftosser1

Posts: 2602 - Karma: 951

Karma: 951

Posts: 2602

Addict

Sweet dude! What a fucking relevant comment!

Also since when is the US Gov't trying to cover this up? It's been all over the news, especially after they enacted the violent protest law...

Jan 23 2014 11:24PM

2 1

Posts: 3281 - Karma: 3,256

Karma: 3,256

Posts: 3281

Addict

it's not even mentioned on Yahoo's main page
It's not mentioned on CNN's Main Page
It's hidden in the latest news on FOX's main page
It's mentioned halfway down CBS new's main page
It's not mentioned on ABC new's main page

But yes it's all over the news

Jan 23 2014 11:32PM

4 0

SFB

Posts: 8895 - Karma: 26,352

Karma: 26,352

Posts: 8895

Crazy Fool

you bring up a valid point, right now im not too concerned about the government pulling something on us, but what is worrying is how many people choose to live in the dark and would rather have someone else sort out all of there problems for them which can only lead to bad things.

Jan 23 2014 11:38PM

3 0

Posts: 12794 - Karma: 32,719

Karma: 32,719

Posts: 12794

Crazy Fool

Well I see your problem, you're looking at American news sources.

On the first page on CBC, BBC, Guardian, Al Jazeera, etc etc.

Although in Canada a fire that's killed probably 35ish people is making the top headlines right now. And on any shitty news source (ie CTV) Bieber is right up there above anything related to Ukraine.

Jan 23 2014 11:39PM

5 0

SFB

Posts: 8895 - Karma: 26,352

Karma: 26,352

Posts: 8895

Crazy Fool

the key to a successful society is an informed and active population.

Jan 23 2014 11:42PM

3 0

Posts: 3281 - Karma: 3,256

Karma: 3,256

Posts: 3281

Addict

Not sure if you meant to, but thank you for helping me prove my point.

Jan 23 2014 11:45PM

1 0

Posts: 12794 - Karma: 32,719

Karma: 32,719

Posts: 12794

Crazy Fool

but it is all over the news. just not in good ol' USA where nothing else matters but what goes on within its own borders.

Jan 23 2014 11:49PM

4 0

2_fadez

Posts: 7780 - Karma: 4,183

Karma: 4,183

Posts: 7780

Crazy Fool

Honestly the biggest thing that ticks me off about this is the reference that the internet is making towards the Ukrainians as 'protesters'. They are not protesters. They are rioters. This is a riot. They have weapons and are attacking police and 'to their great surprise' have protesters getting the shit kicked out of them and killed as a result.
Protesters don't throw molotov cocktails and burn buses. This is rioting and while it may deserve coverage, the violence they are commiting does not deserve to be supported. What do they expect to get from destroying their own cities and killing their own civilians? Peace? Rights? The Civil Rights movement and women's suffrage and clean food movements in America didn't involve violence the day after. When was the last time a revolution or 'rebellion' ended positively for their country. Look at South Sudan or Syria or Egypt or Kosovo. They are all bloodbaths not from their former government, but from genocide amongst themselves.

Ukraine might have made laws that it is illegal to protest, but destroying your own country rioting and attacking police is not going to make new laws helping the citizens. They are only fucking themselves. They need peace and democracy; and anarchism is not going to bring that.

Jan 23 2014 11:50PM

4 2

Posts: 3281 - Karma: 3,256

Karma: 3,256

Posts: 3281

Addict

And the colonists with there muskets were what then?

Jan 23 2014 11:53PM

2 1