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Ukraine

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Turkelton
Posts: 2829 - Karma: 8,558
Anybody have any idea what's actually going on? News is crap, don't believe /pol/, I mean it's about presidential elections or something but I have no idea. Anybody on here from Ukraine or Russia that has an idea what's going on there or anything deeper?
Jan 23 2014 3:50AM
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twin-tip-hero
Posts: 2896 - Karma: 277
No idea, but I do know Ukraine is the shit. When I went there you can live like a fucking boss for a week on just 200 bucks. I'm talking taxis, nice restaurants, VIP tables at clubs and all the beer you can drink. All for 200 US. Shits awesome.
Jan 23 2014 4:07AM
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Laurent.
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 25,313
Great fucking time for conflict photographers.

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I know it's staged, stil cool:

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I wish this picture was beter, this guy is putting the eons he spend playing God of War to good use:

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Jan 23 2014 5:30AM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,751
I heard on the radio here that the leader of the opposition said that his supporters are ready to fight if an election isn't called or something like that.


all I can gather from the whole situation is that the leader of Ukraine was about to sign onto the EU, then he had a 'meeting' with the Russians and the next day was completely against what he was planning on doing. So the Russians clearly threatened to kill his family or something similar. Russians are the obvious bad guy in all this and the reason why Ukraine could possibly have a civil war.
Jan 23 2014 7:44AM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,751
also fun fact. I'm directly descended from a Cossack Hetman of Ukraine. nice to know an ancestor raped and pillaged and killed thousands of people.
Jan 23 2014 7:49AM
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Dhane
Posts: 3866 - Karma: 1,722
"Dear subscriber, you are registered as a participant in a mass disturbance"







shits getting weird
Jan 23 2014 9:21AM
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Laurent.
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 25,313
RT has a live video feed.


Jan 23 2014 3:56PM
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qazwsxedc34
Posts: 2955 - Karma: 2,140
Jan 23 2014 4:20PM
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qazwsxedc34
Posts: 2955 - Karma: 2,140
How to roast a pig^
Jan 23 2014 4:22PM
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Pancake_Fucker
Posts: 1843 - Karma: 1,917
I was told it was over the joining eu but all I really cared about was the videos. I say let them work it out themselves and see what happens.
Jan 23 2014 4:26PM
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whoa-dere
Posts: 10596 - Karma: 7,103
the fireworks at the end were cool
Jan 23 2014 4:27PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,176
Didn't he change his mind because the Russians offered him like $15 billion or something to keep ties with Russia?
Jan 23 2014 4:44PM
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Kimmler
Posts: 1316 - Karma: 623
Huffington Post UK just posted these. Crazy stuff.

Jan 23 2014 5:05PM
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qazwsxedc34
Posts: 2955 - Karma: 2,140
lol

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Jan 23 2014 5:32PM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,751
dude with the revolver in one hand and baseball bat in the other made me smile. we really don't know how to riot here in North America
Jan 23 2014 10:19PM
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SkiBum.
Posts: 3600 - Karma: 3,909
Who cares? I don't live there. And Justin Beiber got fucking arrested today!
Jan 23 2014 10:24PM
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RimJobber
Posts: 3313 - Karma: 10,058
Holy shit man. If we had hardcore riots like this in America I would make a nice stop at the surplus store and then go out and go ham.
Any video game character you thought dressed badass or had a badass weapon, thats what I would be going for.
People in Ukraine built a fucking trebuchet that they using to launch molotov cocktails and other objects at police. Thats so fucking badass
Jan 23 2014 10:28PM
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Wallisch_pl
Posts: 5260 - Karma: 1,022
just watched 3 hours/7 hours lol
Jan 23 2014 10:32PM
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Culture+
Posts: 449 - Karma: 2,245
The American government has some control over what reaches the news sources such as CNN, MSNBC FOX Etc.
Some better andnon american/RT, Al Jazeera, Foreign Policy( out of DU Campus) and BBC
Jan 24 2014 1:10PM
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qazwsxedc34
Posts: 2955 - Karma: 2,140
Many of the western news agencies can be bought off. Operation mockingbird? And it is very obvious that most of today's news is prepackaged. Watch something as simple as big boys go bananas where the corporation dole pays off certain media agencies including CNN to advocate in favor of dole. Dole sprayed illegal soup of chemicals on workers in Central America knowing full well the harmful effects to the body. As a result many workers perished and others have many defects. Although, dole was wrong the media with some greenbacks was able to make it seem like the makers of the doc were the Villans. Saying that the doc as a whole was one complete lie, of course without even watching the doc. The filmakers one in Supreme Court 5 years later and were able to show the movie in select places.
Jan 24 2014 7:44PM
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qazwsxedc34
Posts: 2955 - Karma: 2,140
Because he's got swag and smokes kush. He cool and everything else that is happening in the world at this moment and time is stupid and dumb. He well role model, he sing baby baby, he is cool, he got money, he in secret tree hugging group with jay zeep. This is America celebrities who get DUI"s are more importance
Jan 24 2014 7:54PM
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Laurent.
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 25,313
Russian Today stream for today:


And a stream from a lad who is right there at the frontline:

Jan 25 2014 6:07PM
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Backyard.Skier
Posts: 5397 - Karma: 1,497
"It's a conspiracy!"
Jan 25 2014 6:10PM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
Oversimplified answer to a rather complex situation:

Basically, Ukraine is balanced precariously between remaining a close partner to Russia, or joining the EU.

The government wants to remain friends with Russia. Russia wants another ally, and the Ukrainian government are being given "incentives" to stay loyal to Putin, which helps since the country is in financial difficulty and close to defaulting.

A significant number of people in Ukraine, however, don't care about that and want to move towards the EU, in the hopes of having higher standards of living and better trade with, and access to, the western world. The government gives no fucks though, hence the implementing of heavy-handed laws completely disregarding civil liberties.
Jan 26 2014 8:15AM
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Parrish
Posts: 8695 - Karma: 1,008
Some insight on this. Russians have been a huge minority in Ukraine, with about 20% of people in Ukraine being Russian, and with many of those people living in the eastern half.

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There has been a divide between both ethnic groups politically and has kinda ripped the country apart. This is probably cause their entangled past.

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This can be more visualized by the language spoken in which part of the county with quite a clear divide, with a 1/3 speaking it natively, as well as primarily in the home. Along that you can add about a 1/5 that speak it along with Ukrainian in their households. Lastly some other numbers I found dealt with how socially there is a huge Russian media influence in Ukraine
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Like I'm not saying being Russian is bad, but many Ukrainians don't like Russia because of their past and all the shit Russia has done to them, like causing a genocide as well as using them pretty much as a puppet state for the soviet union.
Jan 26 2014 2:32PM
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Parrish
Posts: 8695 - Karma: 1,008
If you're going to ukraine to drink beer you got your priorities wrong. I got a good friend from ukraine that says the vodka there is amazing, and cheap. Even the street corner vodka is good, at least according to him.
Jan 26 2014 2:37PM
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@LANTASKI
Posts: 599 - Karma: 1,586
how is the skiing there?
Jan 26 2014 2:51PM
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Phil-X-
Posts: 7205 - Karma: 14,399
It should be noted that a lot of these rioters are just anarchists/nazis/white supremacists. Don't for one second think that the general public is revolting, because its not. Their government isnt that oppressive either, a lot of extremist groups are involved in this movement.
Jan 26 2014 2:58PM
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qazwsxedc34
Posts: 2955 - Karma: 2,140
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titushky
Jan 27 2014 9:23PM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
Some historical insight..

The 2004 Orange Revolution had led to Yanukovych's removal from power after his election was judged to be fraudulent. Russia backs him then - and backs him now. For centuries Ukraine was controlled by Moscow and many Russians see Ukraine as vital to Russian interests. Yanukovych, who was democratically elected in 2010, still has a strong support base (nationalists and conservatives) in eastern and southern Ukraine.

Russia was stagnant for a decade after the Wall fell in 1989, but gas and oil extractions have led to its economic and political resurgence. Historically, the Russian Bear has exercised huge influence over Ukraine, Poland and other parts of what we term Eastern Europe. This influence is now being re-imposed.

It's essentially just more of the same - if you examine the past 300 years of Russian behaviour towards Ukraine (and Poland), none of the current events are any different.

There are millions of books and articles you can read on this, if anyone is interested.
Jan 28 2014 7:43AM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
What?
Jan 28 2014 5:58PM
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Laurent.
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 25,313
Mah cinematics, who will take phantom flex in there?


Jan 28 2014 6:04PM
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whoa-dere
Posts: 10596 - Karma: 7,103
cool
Jan 28 2014 6:38PM
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DrZoidberg
Posts: 5675 - Karma: 4,268
Here's a ton of good pictures and the photog's firsthand account. I don't know about unbiased, but the pictures are cool.

Jan 28 2014 9:28PM
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chicken.
Posts: 289 - Karma: 587
We should follow their lead and revolt against our fascist governments
Jan 28 2014 10:56PM
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Utard
Posts: 2132 - Karma: 305
Informative

Jan 30 2014 5:04PM
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JOP177
Posts: 392 - Karma: 424
Absolutely 100% wrong.  Look at the scale of these protests:

http://www.airpano.com/360Degree-VirtualTour.php?3D=Ukraine-EuroMaidan

My grandparents immigrated from Ukraine after the second world war.  I've never been to Ukraine, but attended Ukrainian school when I was younger, and speak the language fluently.  To give you an idea of what the Russian/Ukrainian history is like, my grandmother was telling me people were killing themselves in displaced persons camps in Germany under Russian control so that they wouldn't be sent back to a Ukraine under Russian rule.  In 1932-1933, Russia cut off Ukraine from the rest of the world, stole their crops, and forced starvation upon Ukraine, killing between 6-8 million people.  This genocide, which is on the scale of the Holocaust is not taught in most history courses, so people have no idea that Russia committed these crimes against humanity. 

The protests originally started in response to the president's decision to move closer to Russia instead of progressing down the road to EU integration.  The decision between the EU/Russia is not simply an economic one.  Ukraine wants to move closer to the west in regards to democracy, human rights, political expression, anti-corruption, free market, etc. The recent wave of violence was sparked by the passing of strict anti-protesting laws and new information regarding the brutality of the riot police.  Under the new laws, protesters are banned from wearing helmets, pitching tents and using bullhorns.  Protesters are also banned from wearing helmets, pitching tents and using bullhorns and sound systems during mass protests. Violators face steep fines and prison sentences of up to 15 years.  In addition, the Berkut (the Ukrainian special riot police) is a vicious arm of the government that has been kidnapping activist leaders and protesters, as well as injured protesters from hospitals and torturing, then releasing them into the woods.

Activist leader being tortured: http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/automaidan-leader-bulatov-found-alive-after-eight-days-of-disappearance-335912.htm

I think this letter most accurately portrays the current situation in Ukraine: http://www.neweasterneurope.eu/articles-and-commentary/1061-open-letter-from-ukrainian-writer-yuri-andrukhovych


Jan 30 2014 6:22PM
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Laurent.
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 25,313
There currently is no international consensus among scholars or politicians on whether the Soviet policies that caused the famine fall under the legal definition of genocide. Every mention of the holodomor opens up a cesspool of discussion that never seems to get any further then a Godwin.

Also why even mention it? To establish the relations between countries? In very much the same way I do not harbour any animosity against the current German government because of what happened in WOII, I can't hold them accountable for what happened back then.

Of course the Ukranian/Russian relationship is creaking, more so these past few months, put for the past years generally in opinion polls Russians say they have a more negative attitude towards Ukraine than vice versa.
Jan 30 2014 9:41PM
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qazwsxedc34
Posts: 2955 - Karma: 2,140
The referendum is complete.
Mar 16 2014 8:25PM
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integralmgmt
Posts: 476 - Karma: 921
Historically, in the early 20th Century, Stalin removed many minorities from the Crimean region, while it was under USSR control, and deported them to Central Asia. Stalin then replaced them with Russia, which along with close geographic position is the reason that Eastern Ukraine is pro- Russia. This whole situation has the potential to really fuck things up. Russia violated the sovereignty of Ukraine, which often leads directly to war. The US is playing diplomacy games with Putin and his friends, which they probably take as a joke, and the EU has to be careful because Russia supplies European natural gas. It's really complicated but this whole situation is due to nationalism, a border, and Vladimir Putin. I don't think most people are taking it seriously enough.
Mar 21 2014 10:04AM
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integralmgmt
Posts: 476 - Karma: 921
bump this is definitely an issue worthy of more discussion
Mar 21 2014 8:06PM
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