Ask a Mormon

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Insane

Ya. That's a very standard sunday for the vast majority of mormons. We don't spend money on sunday or do recreational activities or go to football games so church is a 3 hour block, most people sleep before church and a lot take naps after church. Most people do read scriptures on sunday but certainly not all day. Most hang out with their families and other families they are friends with. I also get a lot of homework done.

Jan 13 2014 6:13PM

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Insane

Pm me and I'll get you in contact with the missionaries. :P

Jan 13 2014 6:14PM

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No Life

You're confusing "skepticism" and "bias." People should be skeptical, but how skeptical of the Bible are you?

Jan 13 2014 7:17PM

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I can actually guarantee that about ~90% of the members of the national academy of sciences are atheists. I can also guarantee that no one gives a shit how much money you do or will make. Donald trump makes a lot of money, but he's still an idiot. You probably aren't an idiot, but don't try to prove it by flexing your (predicted) economic muscles.

Jan 13 2014 7:22PM

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Insane

There are sooo many threads in existence where people argue about religion. Let's keep this one as a discussion of mormonism specifically. Critical questions are fine but I want it to be a discussion on mormonism not arguing about each other's beliefs. (Not targeting you specifically, every other page is on topic haha).

Jan 13 2014 7:28PM

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No Life

You should correct them and educate them when it comes up. You can't blame someone for believing the wrong thing when they've been given wrong information, but if you understand evolution and remain silent when they spout pseudo-scientific nonsense, that's on you now. Plus, you're a member of their peer group, so when you talk they might actually listen, as opposed to when I talk to creationists who are apparently afraid satan is going to leap out of my ass at any moment and start sodomizing them.

Me: "Evolution is the change in a alleleic frequency over time due to differential reproductive success"

Creationist: "HOW DO YOU HAVE MORALS!?!"

Jan 13 2014 7:30PM

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Ok so here's a question about mormonism and also a personal question. You indicated in a previous response that you support both a woman's right to choose and marriage rights for homosexuals (it least that's what I got out of it but correct me if I'm wrong).

When these topics come up around other mormons, what do you say? Are you open about your positions with members of your faith who disagree with you on this issue? Disagreeing is normally not a big issue, but many "pro lifers" who I've met take their position to the point of calling abortion "murder." If you are in a situation where you disagree strongly with someone who is a member of your faith on a sensitive topic, how have you reacted in the past? Have you ever found yourself in this position?

Jan 13 2014 7:35PM

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Insane

I guess I should expound on this a little. I do have many discussions/debates whatever with my friends and I'll describe where we stand. I believe in evolution but I think it is the means God used to produce species. My fundamentalist friends that I described reject evolution and believe in Adam and Eve literally. They do believe in natural selection however, when I cite examples like the peppered moth they agree that natural selection takes place within a species. We diverge when it comes to a species evolving into another species or a common ancestor that primates and homosapiens both evolved from.

Jan 13 2014 7:41PM

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Insane

That is correct. I'll start off by saying that I try to keep my religious and personal beliefs separate from my political ideology. I dont personally condone abortion, but I strongly believe in someone else's right to it. I don't condone swearing, drinking, smoking, sex outside marriage, etc. yet these are all perfectly legal and so within the political sphere I don't feel it's my right to restrict others.

Topics like marriage equality I am VERY vocal about, just ask my parents haha. I think I have a rather compelling rhetoric that works within mormonism which is hard to do so I freely share it. In church however, I must admit that I do not speak up and there are two reasons for this. I don't go to church to persuade people I go to church to worship, and sensitive subjects aren't central to gospel. Secondly, church isn't a place that fosters differing opinions and that can be hard for some, there are thousands of mormon blogs/forums that exist for this reason. It's something I think the church needs to work on is what I'm saying.

Jan 13 2014 7:54PM

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No Life

You should point them to some of the proof that we share a common ancestor with chimpanzees.

What you believe doesn't matter, just talk to them about evidence.

Jan 13 2014 7:54PM

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"I dont personally condone abortion"

Such a strong position for you to take what with your high risk of becoming pregnant.

"topics like marriage equality I am VERY vocal about, just ask my parents haha. I think I have a rather compelling rhetoric that works within mormonism which is hard to do so I freely share it. In church however, I must admit that I do not speak up"

Have you ever heard of the phrase "if you aren't part of the solution you're part of the problem?" Do you agree with it?

"church isn't a place that fosters differing opinions"

Ya don't say....

"It's something I think the church needs to work on is what I'm saying."

You should be the change you wish to see in the world. If you want the church to (pardon my language) evolve on the issue of gay marriage, you should maybe be willing to say that in church!

Jan 13 2014 8:00PM

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well I mean if a family has on average like 1.5 people working per household, then that is only like 50k/year. I don't really know anyone over the age of 30 who makes that little. your average middle class family probably brings in at least 150k a year I would think.

Jan 13 2014 8:32PM

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No Life

I hate this website sometimes.

Jan 13 2014 8:35PM

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spliff.Life

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I like all what you said, but this stood out as a big point to me. So many natural phenomena that were once 'works of god' are now understood through simple physics or chemistry, life has been explained through biology, and though we dont know everything, we've learned enough to rightfully put many religious theories to rest.

I personally dont define as any religion or atheism, because i dont know. I dont believe theres a god up in the sky somewhere, i believe if anything its whats holding us all together. the world, the universe is made of vibrations, and ours just happen to be slow enough to be solids.
where does the force that holds the quantum pieces all together come from?

some people need the mental silver lining to make it through the day, the idea that god is watching over them, when really it is they who are watching over themselves as god unknowingly, but if i have faith in one thing, it's that people will continue to believe whats presented as most simple to them until a better alternative comes along. That being, the truth, which once learned is hard to unlearn because it makes so much sense

Jan 13 2014 9:04PM

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that includes households with only one adult though probably. most "families" in this day and age have at least two people making money.

There is no way my parents household income is in the top 4%, I just straight up know this. My parents are by no means wealthy. maybe it's partly because they buy lots of houses instead of spending money, but still. I would say most of my friends come from wealthier families than I do. I really doubt all of my friends just happen to come from the top 4%

Jan 13 2014 9:18PM

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doGelyst

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In the 21st century,

Religion is like Santa Claus.

Its so cool when you're a kid, but then you grow up and realize no one climbs down your chimney and puts goodies under the tree. Or realize that the world isnt flat, the sun doesnt orbit the earth, etc.

On the other hand, some people just don't grow up.

Jan 13 2014 9:49PM

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Those were households.

"There is no way my parents household income is in the top 4%"

Burst, bubble! Burst I say!!

"I just straight up know this."

Oh really?

"My parents are by no means wealthy. maybe it's partly because they buy lots of houses instead of spending money, but still."

Yeah, if your parents "buy lots of houses," they are fairly wealthy.

"I would say most of my friends come from wealthier families than I do."

Right, because you have a rich circle of friends.

"I really doubt all of my friends just happen to come from the top 4%"

Why?

Jan 13 2014 9:50PM

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BMB

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Yeah, what does the OP have to gain by answering questions about his mormon faith. He's just putting himself out there. Affirming any stereotypes and stigmas against Mormons and the history of the Mormon church.

Jan 13 2014 10:11PM

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miroz

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Crazy Fool

No, he's opening discussion and dispelling assumptions. Do us all a favor and read the thread.

Jan 13 2014 10:43PM

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miroz

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Crazy Fool

Thanks for your answers sir! I have a couple more questions.

- This kind of touches on something that I think Bill.Nye was saying, but I want a focused answer that I don't think was in the thread (may have missed it) so I'm going to ask anyway. I think casual answered, but I don't know if you did: 'Why use the label "mormon" on yourself? Isn't this classification which you have adopted merely a consequence of your cultural circumstance, and therefore inherently divisive for no real reason? Why not shed that label and simply be a "person" like everyone else, in stead of a "mormon?" '

- Did you vote in the Presidential election of 2012? For whom? Why? How did your opinions compare with your peers?

- Do you go to college? Where?

- What did Joseph Smith do that produced tangible results of his legitimacy? He was indeed a real person, yet why is he now regarded to have god-like powers? Does he not individually give permission into heaven? Can you prove this to me with anything other than his word (which one cannot substantiate)?

- Why do Mormons allow themselves to perpetuate the stereotype of having seemingly cultish communities?

Jan 13 2014 11:01PM

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BMB

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haha I read the whole thread, still think it's a waste of time. Not going to change many opinions on Mormons.

Jan 14 2014 12:10AM

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miroz

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Crazy Fool

Who says he's trying to?

Do you know everything about how Mormon culture? Did you learn anything while reading this thread? If you answer "yes" to the first question, or "no" to the second question, then you are exempt. However, I expect that this is not the case and therefore the thread has some thoughtful value, even if only the opportunity to reflect on personal beliefs.

Jan 14 2014 12:14AM

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B.Aussie

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Only .57% of Australians are Mormon so I find this thread extremely interesting.

In Australia, majority of the people who identify as a member of a religion believe in science.

Jan 14 2014 1:16AM

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Turd.Ferguson

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go stuff some more emergency rations in your car you prick

Jan 14 2014 1:26AM

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Darth.Maul

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I think that marraige equality is more of a generational thing than specifically a church thing. Older people when tend to be much more anti gay marraige than the younger generation just because when they were raised, gay marraige wasnt nearly as big as it is now. Just like 2-3 generations ago it was completely normal and accepted to be racist and treat african americans as 2nd class citizens compared to white folk. The Mormon church's as well as many other religion's stances on gay marraige wont change because it is stared in the Bible that marraige is man+woman. The bible isnt going to change and the churchs stance will never change BUT the acceptance of gay marraige and married couples can and will likely change with time when gay marraige starts to become a legitimate government documented practice.

Now we cant expect gay or lesbian couples to be married in a Mormon temple which is fine and thats how it should be. Government shouldnt be able to force a religion to accept a marraige just how religion is being separated from the government when it comes to marraige equality. My gay cousin was married by a Mormon bishop just a few weeks ago at a golf course near my house. He was more than happy to do so for someone that he recognized as his neighbor.

Getting rid of the bigotry in any place is something that takes a lot of time and the younger generation is key in making it so that gay/lesbian couples feel welcomed and treated like any other couple but not expecting a change in church doctrine.

TLDR; the church will always define marraige as a man and a woman but "loving your neighbor is" something that everyone can work on.

Jan 14 2014 1:37AM

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J_BISCHOF

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Did you ever stop to think that for many religion is a form of companionship and community? Most of the religious people I know live great lives and have many friends. They have a huge base of "family" that comes from their church. Its a very easy way to become close with a bunch of people that share at last some of the same values as you.

Jan 14 2014 1:41AM

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Am I completely missing the boat or does this not doing anything for your argument? Doesn't it show there aren't any dumb religious people? I'm so confused as to how this helps your argument

Jan 14 2014 2:08AM

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He directly said that all religious people were dumb and poor, all I was doing is saying that I am neither dumber or will not be poorer than he is, I don't see anything wrong with what I said, just defending myself and others like me

Jan 14 2014 2:11AM

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oops nevermind read it as % religious. That is interesting, however the issue with the graph is that because a large majority of countries (what I'm guessing this is referring to?) is religious, you're bound to get that spread at the low end. I would also argue that the two aren't causal of one another, and that there are bigger issues at work here, but interesting none-the-less

Jan 14 2014 2:14AM

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Oh jesus christ you need to get out of your suburb. If your parents make 200k+ a year you are VERY wealth, PERIOD.

Jan 14 2014 2:18AM

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I'm going for 5 in a row guys!!! Sorry, just got to work and its the only time I have to get on here and waste time.

Jan 14 2014 2:20AM

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No Life

my dad drives a 2006 truck and my parents live in a less than 3000 square foot house. they don't live in the suburbs, they are like a 5 min drive from downtown. the condo they bought me for university is less than 1000 square feet.

QUIT making assumptions on peoples wealth based on their income. 75,000/ year, for a family, IS lower middle class. you can afford to eat and and pay off a mortgage and live somewhat comfortably. upper middle class is like people driving nice cars and having big ass houses and fancy vacation properties and shit. somewhere in between is where most normal families are living. like you can afford to buy a few pieces of property and go on vacations once in awhile and send your kids to college and stuff.

Jan 14 2014 2:53AM

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06jF1EG8o-Q

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Insane

4th page. Haven't read it all. Is the OP an atheist yet?

Jan 14 2014 2:58AM

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Insane

'Why use the label "mormon" on yourself?' You and Bill.Nye have both raised this question and I haven't properly answered it because I'm just a little bit confused what exactly you are asking. I label myself a Mormon because I believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. I have read and studied the Book of Mormon extensively and prayed to know of its truthfulness. I believe the church is true and that Jesus Christ is my savior. I simply acknowledge the fact I can never know but find fulfillment in my lifestyle. I AM merely a consequence of my cultural circumstance, and yet that can only describe the origin, not my path. I believe that believing in mormonism has gotten me to a place spiritually where you cannot get to as a scoffing outsider, and for that, I am truly grateful. I now believe because I have felt things and had experiences that others have not. You may write that off as delusion but it is as much a reality to me as is the observable world. By the age of 20, I am capable of thinking for myself and I reject the notion that I merely believe because my parents taught it to me. I started out that way but I now believe because I have a testimony. My parents taught me the easter bunny/tooth fairy/santa were real, they instilled in me a prejudice against homosexuals that I now reject. I am my own person and yet I am happy being a mormon and so I am a mormon.

I did vote in the past election for the first time. I honestly struggled with coming to a decision. I consider myself an independent because I find many things I like in both parties and many things very stupid in both parties. I really don't like Mitt Romney as a president, I think he's fine as a person. I'm not in love with Obama either but I found my ideologies to be closer to Obama's and so I voted for him. Only because I saw his 2nd term as having the potential to do greater good than Romney. Believe it or not, most of my peers (college students) voted for Obama, even though we're mormon. With that said, everyone I know in Utah not of my age group voted for Romney. (But would have voted for any other republican of any denomination).

I go to the University of Utah. It's a great fit for me, I have a really good blend of friends who are LDS, friends who are not and some friends in between. It's been cool to meet people from out of state and see their perspective and introduce them to a real live mormon haha.

I've run out of room and will adress the next 2 questions in a minute

Jan 14 2014 3:03AM

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JESUS FUCKING CHRIST. Your parents BOUGHT you a condo for college and you still aren't convinced that you are wealthy. You have to be trolling, please tell me that you're trolling.

Jan 14 2014 3:03AM

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Insane

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. SOLID FUCKING GOLD. Do you even read what you write?

I love it, reality is going to slap this kid in the face.

Jan 14 2014 3:04AM

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No Life

they didn't buy it for me obviously. just bought it so I could live in it. I don't get to keep it after I graduate.

It's a decent place, don't get me wrong, but it is not screaming "wealthy" either... my parents cabin is nicer than it for god's sake...

Jan 14 2014 3:16AM

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No Life

but anyways. enough about this shit. I don't give a fuck what a "normal" income is anyways. All I know for sure is that christians are stupid.

Jan 14 2014 3:23AM

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Insane

Joseph Smith's vision was not in itself a unique experience in the 19th century, what legitimized him as a prophet was the book of mormon. In the concluding paragraphs of the book of mormon, it states: (also known as moroni's challenge) 4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.(Moroni 10:4-5)

I have read the book of mormon and prayed to know if it is true and I have received my answer. I realize that many may struggle with this approach to understanding truth as we are all endowed with the scientific world view. A quote from a good friend of mine (who wrote a fascination anti-mormon book featuring this quote) sums it up really nicely "I'm afraid that the river between us is still unbridged and perhaps unbridgeable- the reason for that, as I see it, is essentially epistomological, I accept spiritual revelation as a valid way of knowing and you do not"

Also, he is not perceived to have god-like powers in mormonism. Jesus Christ is viewed to have these powers but Joseph Smith is seen as an instrument in God's hands. He is very much a human but was the mouth piece for God in our day. “It is my duty to say to you that the need was never greater [for] new revelation than now.” “The doctrine of inspiration is lost. … Miracles, prophecy, … the holy life, exist as ancient history [only]. … Men have come to speak of … revelation as somewhat long ago given and done, as if God were dead. … It is the office of a true teacher,” he warned, “to show us that God is, not was; that He speaketh, not spake.” –Ralph Waldo Emerson

Joseph Smith has no say in who gets into heaven or not. God is our ultimate judge and Jesus Christ is our mediator who has atoned for our sins so that we may make it back to our Heavenly Father. I certainly cannot "prove" it to you in any way, it requires personal effort. I have some interesting evidences I could provide you with but I dont have room in this post.

- "Why do Mormons allow themselves to perpetuate the stereotype of having seemingly cultish communities?"

I am unsure what you mean, I wasn't aware we perpetuate having cultish communities. Our temple ceremonies are "secret" only in that they are very private because we hold them so sacred. For everything else, we do missionary work like none other and invite all to learn more about us. And we're pretty normal for the most part. I guess if you could un-pack cultish communities I could better clarify this!

Jan 14 2014 3:24AM

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Insane

Troll

Jan 14 2014 3:28AM

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No Life

what part of that seems like i'm trolling you? you moron.

Jan 14 2014 3:30AM

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Insane

Ski cabin, house, condo, at the minimum and you're claiming to think that you're not wealthy.

Not to mention the mac book pro, the leather couches the surf board etc etc.

Jan 14 2014 3:34AM

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No Life

fuck leather. literally every piece of furniture in my place is leather and it sucks. I hate sitting on dead flesh. leather should not be seen as valuable by anyone. it's disgusting.

Jan 14 2014 3:37AM

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No Life

ski cabin? I wish.

Jan 14 2014 3:38AM

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