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Some 'New' Information onHelmets and Concussions

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s-hand
Posts: 1334 - Karma: 1,800
Yes I know, this probably technically belongs in gear talk.   However, I think this is a highly relevant topic for almost all of us on this site so I am hoping more people can see it here in SG.  If mods do not agree, work your magic and move it on over to gear talk.  Also, this may not be new for all, but most of the developments discussed have happened in the last five years, so I would consider them relatively new and maybe even "ground-breaking" or something.

A high number of us have dealt with concussions one way or another in our ski careers.  Some worse than others obviously, but I would wager that more than half of us has experienced a concussion at some point (whether or not it is actually diagnosed).  For those on the more severe side, you know what its like: the splitting headaches, the inability to concentrate, the obscured vision--it sucks.

A common misconception among skiers and other action sports lovers is that helmets reduce risk of concussions.  Recent studies, however, reveal that this is not the case.  Helmets are built around safety standards that are designed to prevent major physical, external damage to the skull.  Helmets DO do an excellent job of preventing major head trauma, but lack critically in ability to prevent concussions.  The safety standards for helmets in the US have not been updated in decades.  Since then staggering advances in the field of concussion studies have occurred, yet the standards have not changed.  I digress...  If you want to learn more about this, check out these links.  They provide excellent information on the subject:
http://www.bicycling.com/senseless/index.html
http://issuu.com/mipshelmet/docs/popsci_mips_2012_2

My point is not to ramble on to you about this.  The above article can do that.  My point is to ask for your help.  I am a mechanical engineer at Pitt, and am doing a research design project on helmet technology (MIPS in particular) and concussion prevention.  I have a fairly large arsenal of sources to consult, but I am in search of more.  If anyone here has recently read about this anywhere, I would be greatly appreciative If they would share this with me.  Also, firsthand accounts of experiences with MIPS helmets would be stellar.  Anything will be a help.
Yeah this last section is rather awkward, but hey I am an engineer, not an english major.  Thanks for the help!


Sparknotes: I am doing a reserch project for my engineering class on helmet design and concussion prevention.  I need sources of additional information on this subject.  I have a lot but need more.  Thanks

Jan 9 2014 10:37PM
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chacha33
Posts: 959 - Karma: 4,163
Mine works just fine

Click for larger image
Jan 9 2014 10:40PM
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corona
Posts: 12804 - Karma: 32,823
see, here's where you're wrong: saying helmets do nothing to prevent concussions.

While they may not do much to prevent concussions, they certainly (if only a tiny bit) do help. Any material between your head and the surface it's being hit against that can absorb an impact (ie foam being crushed) and lessen the force being delivered to your head will absolutely 100% lessen the chances of concussion.
Jan 9 2014 10:47PM
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-WZ-
Posts: 3600 - Karma: 6,582
I didnt quite understand the question
Jan 9 2014 10:57PM
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s-hand
Posts: 1334 - Karma: 1,800
Yes maybe a little, but that is assuming you hit the ground straight-on.  Most concussions are caused by the rotational motion of the head 'whipping' towards the ground.  It causes a lot of torque between the brain and skull
Jan 10 2014 8:34AM
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PizzaKid
Posts: 297 - Karma: 309
I don't know if this helps you at all, but I know that there has been a similar issue with hockey helmets and about two years ago Bauer made a helmet that was built with what was considered a revolutionary technology as far as concussion prevention. Here is some background information about it, embed probably doesnt work https://www.bauer.com/blog/index.cfm/2012/1/27/Bauer-REAKT-Helmet
Jan 10 2014 8:50AM
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Bumblesteeze
Posts: 3092 - Karma: 748
You should some research on Giro's new "softshell" Combyn helmet.
Jan 10 2014 9:53AM
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op14
Posts: 1769 - Karma: 4,586
I have the POC backcountry helmet and I've never had a concussion. Idk if that's chance or not but you could look it up.
Jan 10 2014 10:00AM
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Bumblesteeze
Posts: 3092 - Karma: 748
The Backcountry is pretty much a receptor with MIPS.
Jan 10 2014 10:10AM
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snowpocalypse
Posts: 1036 - Karma: 3,525
While the traditional helmet does help with major trauma you are right that the concussion rates are still on the rise. There are several things that are contributing to that rise. The first is education, more people are aware of concussions. Back when I was growing up we never wore helmets, they just weren't around yet. If you got a mild to moderate concussion most of the time it went diagnosed. We just called it ringing our bell. Now with more awareness and education people are realizing even a small head injury can cause problems and are seeking medical attention. Second is progression, More people are pushing the envelope so to speak, thus more injuries. If concussion reduction is a priority for you take a look at the new MIPS system helmets by Scott and Poc. They are scientifically proven to reduce the torsional impacts that lead to concussions. Please visit http://mipshelmet.com/how-it-works for more information.
Jan 10 2014 10:20AM
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s-hand
Posts: 1334 - Karma: 1,800
Ah, yes this is exactly the kind of thing i need.  thanks
Jan 10 2014 10:42AM
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DIX~
Posts: 4695 - Karma: 6,502
I've had the same lid for 5 years now and taken a few concussions in it, no plans on getting a new one #yolo
Jan 10 2014 10:43AM
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skicowboy
Posts: 775 - Karma: 873
I'm glad you at least pointed out the MIPS. I hate continuously reading articles that claim how helmets don't reduce concussions, but fail to mention that MIPS technology HAS proven to reduce concussions (thank you New York Times or whatever that newspaper was last week that failed to mention the advances in helmet safety). I bought the Backcountry Receptor this year for that exact reason. So much mis-education about helmets out there. When I was first buying a helmet about 8-9 years ago and pretty much each time until I looked into it myself, I was told that the helmet I was buying was multi-impact. Until I looked it up and found out there are only like 3 true multi-impact helmets out there even today! Even POC's regular Receptor is single impact. So dropping 300 bucks on a helmet sounds crazy, but when you discover it'll last you years, beyond one impact, and protect your noggin' better than pretty much any other helmet out there, it starts to be a little more reasonable.
/rant
Jan 10 2014 2:39PM
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elcornholio
Posts: 797 - Karma: 1,556
Many soft foam skate helmets such as the bern hard hat or many pro-tec helmets highly reduce concussions. The only time that one would favor a hard foam helmet is for racing where you are moving so fast that you are more worried about cracking your skull than a concussion.
Jan 10 2014 6:18PM
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Poikenz
Posts: 1486 - Karma: 3,826
If you are only looking at biking and football helmets the data will be different from ski/ snowboard helmets.
There are plenty of sources to look at in the field of ski helmets, unfortunately none of them really dive deep into the subject and most of them are done in a fairly subjective way as they typically involve hospital records instead of direct testing of the products themselves.
I would provide links if I had them but I have a bunch of journals in pdf form that I can send to you.
Jan 10 2014 9:18PM
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zahava
Posts: 7791 - Karma: 12,039
Yeah I'm pretty sure that isn't true; unless you can show me some formal study or statics that prove that wrong. Regardless, besides mega, skateboarding is no where near as large or dangerous as skiing and snowboarding. I definitely go as fast as most 'racers' (not talking FIS DH here) on a regular basis. Even then if your actually racing your using something way more technologically advanced than a Bern HH or EPS helmet...

EG:
http://www.pocsports.com/en/product/1539/skull-comp-dh
http://www.pocsports.com/en/product/1201/super-skull-comp

I do agree with you to some extent though anyone. Anyone who says traditional helmets don't stop concussions, yeah thats sorta true, but if wasn't wearing a 'certified' helmet when I caught an edge on a down-flat, fell roughly ten feet, and landed head first on a thick metal rail I probably wouldn't be here today typing this because i would have smashed my skull open and destroyed my self... /rant
Jan 11 2014 12:30AM
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esotericjive
Posts: 1889 - Karma: 1,445
I hit a tree in Nov, the foam inside my smith helmet has a seven inch crack in it in front of the right ear. I did get a pretty serious concussion
Jan 11 2014 9:18AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51745 - Karma: 163,550
First you're late to the party. Second ain't nobody got time to read your essay in the OP.
Jan 11 2014 9:59AM
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s-hand
Posts: 1334 - Karma: 1,800
thanks!
Jan 11 2014 10:02AM
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FlavourCountry
Posts: 33 - Karma: 81
with regards to the mips technology i have recently had an accident in the summer while racing downhill mtn bikes. i can into a corner to fast and my brakes failed and sent me into a tree. i had the poc cortex dh lid and it has the mips technology. if i had any other helmet i probly would of had a severe concussion. so im going to say that the mips technology is quite helpful
Jan 11 2014 3:35PM
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kung_powpow
Posts: 1990 - Karma: 3,671
fuck whiplash, that shit is not fun

Jan 11 2014 8:14PM
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Casey
Posts: 7877 - Karma: 24,683
People get skull fractures from head trauma, a helmet could be the difference between limping off the hill and getting airlifted.
Jan 11 2014 8:35PM
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Ribss.
Posts: 3442 - Karma: 3,344
I think hes saying more could be done and he wants to be the one to figure it out?
Jan 11 2014 8:37PM
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s-hand
Posts: 1334 - Karma: 1,800
yes
Jan 13 2014 6:10PM
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TheClap.
Posts: 21671 - Karma: 4,158
Don't mouthpieces play a big role?
Jan 13 2014 9:06PM
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Dr.Dealgood
Posts: 2587 - Karma: 1,352
Dunno if you've come across this or not in the course of your research:

http://www.gizmag.com/kranium-cardboard-helmet-available/25788/

Using a honeycomb like structure made of cardboard the design claims to be 15% lighter than foam models and able to withstand 3x the impact.

The design was inspired by  the cranial structure of woodpeckers, nature's professional head bangers.

The design is now being sold in the UK.




Jan 13 2014 9:29PM
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s-hand
Posts: 1334 - Karma: 1,800
That is what people thought at  one point, but later studies have disproven that notion.  The only thing they will save is your teeth/mouth/lips.
Jan 13 2014 10:25PM
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Ribss.
Posts: 3442 - Karma: 3,344
Damn, that's actually really cool.
Jan 13 2014 11:21PM
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gotti
Posts: 4269 - Karma: 4,550

just a couple of ideas I have had to test...

helmets always bounce your head after a hard hit unless they crack and then you have to go buy a new helmet. Try making a helmet with a softer external shell that doesn't bounce or rebound after a hit.

Also making helmets with a moveable inside I saw someone do it before but I cant remember who.

Ive been thinking that a helmet that worked like a hat would be pretty cool. It would have a softer internal shell with a rigid yet flexible exterior

Jan 14 2014 12:12PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
speaking of MIPS, ive been debating dropping extra money for a helmet with MIPS, can anyone break it down in laymen terms for me?

thanks
Jan 14 2014 12:21PM
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speedin
Posts: 731 - Karma: 131
Best one I have seen so far. Very cool.

Jan 14 2014 2:27PM
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s-hand
Posts: 1334 - Karma: 1,800
It is basically a helmet with an inner liner on which the outer shell "floats" on.  SO when you hit your head,  it rotates and absorbs some of the rotational acceleration that often causes concussions.  Check out the MIPS website.  They have some pretty great diagrams that make it make more sense.
Jan 14 2014 4:19PM
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oil.
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 1,254
helmets may not do as much to prevent concussion but they do a lot to dissipate any force imparted on your head during a fall. they are designed to protect your head from forces that would damage, possibly dent your skull. otherwise, momentum would transfer energy to the brain and make it rattle inside your skull. this is what happens during a majority of brain injuries. it isn't always the the force itself that damages the brain, but the momentum that moves the brain that the helmet can't stop. smashing your head against a rock with a helmet on though greatly reduces the possibly of any skull damage that would in turn negatively impact your brain.
Jan 14 2014 4:25PM
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s-hand
Posts: 1334 - Karma: 1,800
noted
Jan 16 2014 11:35PM
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jadavis
Posts: 142 - Karma: 136
Long story short you need to reduce the coefficient of restitution as much as possible. This will slow the acceleration of your head in any given direction in the event of a crash. The hard foam in helmets actually does this, although not as much as you might like for your project. As someone previously noted, Giro has some park oriented helmets with a softer foam, which helps a lot with this. Incorporating some sort of highly viscous gel layer into the helmet would be interesting or designing a crumple zone of sorts into the helmet could work too.

Personally I would shoot for a soft foam helmet designed to fail in a way that absorbs more of the impact when crashing really hard (ie irreversible compression of the foam).

I also happen to be an ME student as well.
Jan 16 2014 11:47PM
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jadavis
Posts: 142 - Karma: 136
If you are taking a big hit the cost of your helmet is the least of your issues.
Jan 16 2014 11:49PM
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Casey
Posts: 7877 - Karma: 24,683
Unless you have a $10 dollar head, in which case, sound investment on that cheap helmet.
Jan 17 2014 1:19AM
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jadavis
Posts: 142 - Karma: 136
It appears you got me there. I suppose he should research the average price of a skiers head a little. $10 sounds about right haha
Jan 17 2014 1:36AM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
thanks dude
Jan 17 2014 10:18AM
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s-hand
Posts: 1334 - Karma: 1,800
This makes sense.  I'll look into it.
Jan 21 2014 9:05PM
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