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Selvage denim

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uni-corn
Posts: 13846 - Karma: 651
Thinking about getting in to this game but not really sure where to begin. I currently wear only Levi 511's and want to keep that fit but also not trying to break the bank. Any info would be appreciated.
Dec 25 2013 2:56AM
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neutralzombie
Posts: 8629 - Karma: 606
You mean like raw denim? I know naked and famous and some wesc pants are raw.
Dec 25 2013 3:01AM
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uni-corn
Posts: 13846 - Karma: 651
Yes, raw.
Dec 25 2013 3:05AM
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Piste.Off
Posts: 11586 - Karma: 1,860
Raw and selvage are different. Raw has to do with the denim not being washed or soaked in water prior to being sold. Selvage refers to how the seams of the denim are finished.

Not all raw denim is selvage, but all selvage denim is also raw.
Dec 25 2013 3:09AM
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Bodhisattva_
Posts: 5749 - Karma: 2,009
Wtf is this shit just wear some fuckin dungarees and that's that. Why do you need to waste money to get the proper "look" for your denim?
Dec 25 2013 3:10AM
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uni-corn
Posts: 13846 - Karma: 651
I suppose I mean raw demin then.

Ignorance is bliss.
Dec 25 2013 3:15AM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
Naked and famous are unreal. But they're pricey and it's always nice to try a pair on first. I have a couple suggestions and pointers.

First, raw doesn't stretch. You can expect some stretch in the waist maybe .5-1". The thighs will stay tight.

Take a pair of jeans that for you well, then measure the waist on them (they might've stretched to fit you) and measure the thighs and rise.

I wear 511s as well. If you want a starter pair of raw, consider Unbranded. Unbranded denim is a company started by the owner of naked and famous who wanted to supply raw denim. The denim isn't the rare Japanese denim, buts it's raw 14oz good fit without a high price due to brand names.

But size yourself up well. I love my raw denim, it doesn't stretch out so they got nice for a long time without bagging out. Good luck!
Dec 25 2013 3:17AM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
Some NF will stretch too, gotta check the denim. Raw or some stretch? How heavy? Etc. I wouldn't go above 15oz for your first pair. Get some unbranded if you like them and break them in. Very comfortable too
Dec 25 2013 3:18AM
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uni-corn
Posts: 13846 - Karma: 651
The stretching is what kills me. I usually only wash my main pair every few weeks because I hate the difference in fit from just washed to worn. I want consistent fit. The only caveat is that I carry a gun inside the waistband about half the time I wear jeans so it will stretch them a bit for that. Blerg, first world problems.
Dec 25 2013 3:20AM
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uni-corn
Posts: 13846 - Karma: 651
Any model recommendations from Unbranded that have a similar fit to 511's? Would not like to go any baggier, but skinnier is fine.
Dec 25 2013 3:23AM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
Definitely get their skinny fit. I wear size 34 511 and I got size 34 UB101s. My 511s bag out to shit and I have to use a belt but my UB still fit well. However their sizing changed recently I think. So I have to size down in Unbranded to a size 33. Also most people who wear raw like to wear them for months then wash them to get their own personal fade pattern. I hate faded jeans so I don't wash mine. Just be weary if you wash them the dye will run a lot. But yea, skinny fit unbranded isn't super tight, it's similar to 511 fit
Dec 25 2013 4:31AM
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SkeechyD
Posts: 2026 - Karma: 1,071
I suggest Railcar, they have a great fit for women. I know a few girls with them and they are their favorite pants.

For mens I suggest Roy or Mr. freedom, Im not sure if they make them in women's or not
Dec 25 2013 5:34AM
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Shlogan
Posts: 4942 - Karma: 430
nakeds or unbranded are a great place to start. i bought mine from blue owl and was able to return until i got the fit i wanted. Now on their second year, worth every cent. The cost of nice jeans is something worth doing, just wait for some spare cash so it wont feel like its putting you back too far. Next time i buy selvedge (may not be for a while longer still) it will be a pair of APC. My friend has a pair that clearly felt like they were on the next level in terms of quality.
Dec 25 2013 10:05AM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 37386 - Karma: 120,076
ya d00d ur a broke boi wit no swag
Dec 25 2013 10:39AM
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Heart
Posts: 6156 - Karma: 3,462
^^ Can we have a thread about clothing without shitposting? Owait this is newschoolers, of course we cant

Anyway OP I dont know what companies make good raw denim for females but Naked and Famous is probably a good place to start looking. I have bought a couple pairs from them and ive been pretty satisfied with them. Will post pics when im off mobile.
Dec 25 2013 10:43AM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
False, though not nearly as common to see pre washed pairs, brands like dior offer non raw selvage (at very high prices)

Naked and Famous or unbranded honestly suck for quality and fit, you think they are nice because compared to your average run of the mill stuff its really nice looking. But when you start to compare those side by side to brands like momotaro, tellason, the flat head, strike gold, samurai, etc it becomes pretty clear how shitty n&f/unbranded/etc are. Go spend some time on superfuture's denim forum, literally everything about anything denim related you need to know can be found there.
Dec 25 2013 10:47AM
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AlexFromTarget
Posts: 533 - Karma: 59
I totally agree with you on the quality of n&f and unbranded but for someone that doesnt know if raw denim is something they like its way better to spend 100 then 200+.
Dec 25 2013 11:39AM
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funkmaster
Posts: 617 - Karma: 1,876
this thread confuses me, what on earth are you people on? "rare raw denim"??? its just a pair of blue jeans why on earth would you pay $100-200 when you can get the same shit for 30 or 40 bucks?
Dec 25 2013 11:40AM
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Heart
Posts: 6156 - Karma: 3,462
Because for $30-40 you wont find the fit nor the quality of more expensive denim. If you are content with your $40 jeans, great, but some people like spending money on what they perceive to be a better pair of pants.
Dec 25 2013 11:49AM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
Shut up, you have literally 0 knowledge about what goes into making a pair of jeans clearly. Are you going to say why spend a few hundred on a very nice bottle of champagne when you can get the same shit for $5 at 7/11? No, it is not the same, fuck off.
Dec 25 2013 12:00PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
If you are gonna go raw either go Unbranded at 80$ a pair, or go straight to the 200$ price range. There is no noticeable difference in quality between UB, and the 100-150$ jeans like N&F, Nudies, etc.

APC would be a decent option, but they stretch more than most, so getting sizing right can be tough.
Dec 25 2013 12:01PM
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Shlogan
Posts: 4942 - Karma: 430
I think your recommendations are a little too extreme in this case. You seem to have very strong opinions on what will leave you satisfied in denim but i doubt anyone coming straight off levis quality discussed would be disappointed with something like properly fitting N&F. I appreciate that you are trying to push it into the next price range, and for good reason, but that may not be necessary.

Also you could save yourself time by not arguing with everyone who doesn't understand denim, not everyone has the same interests or level of knowledge so of course they seem very ignorant to you.
Dec 25 2013 1:22PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
no but a $40 or $50 bottle of champagne is extremely close to the $200 bottle. Dare i say ther is a negligible difference.

When you spend $150+ on jeans you are largely paying for the name or the "boutiqueness" of the jeans, not the extra good quality, fit or look.
Dec 25 2013 1:46PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
Having owned N&F in the past, I would never recommend them to anyone. Just like Ben said, there is no difference in quality between the $80 unbranded and $150-175 n&f. Other then their heavy weight stuff, the fabric they use is not very strong, is prone to twisting/blow outs, and doesn't fade very well. When you spend that kind of money on a pair of pants you expect them to last, my n&f did far from that. 2 knee blow outs and the entire crotch gave way while climbing over a fallen tree, all in about 8 months of daily wear. That is just not acceptable for that price. Now I'm not saying Victor (OP) needs to run out and drop $400 on a dope pair of 22oz sams, but if you are going to spend the money in the first place, get something that will be reliable. $200 can get you a FANTASTIC pair of jeans that will fit awesome (assuming you sized right), be very rugged, and fade amazingly over time. Like Ben said, either spend $80 on unbranded or just go right to the $200+ range if you actually are interested in selvedge
Dec 25 2013 1:51PM
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Chief.Queef
Posts: 4427 - Karma: 381
Depending on where you live you should try to get to a store to try on different brands/fits. Just because everyone loves APC petite standards doesn't mean that they'll be the right ones for you. Check out selfedge.com or even the store if you're ever in NYC. Research how each brand stretches/fades and also their durability. Also, pay attention to the weight of the denim. If you're getting your first pair you don't want to be diving into something 16+ oz.

Right now I'm in the market for a new pair because I just had a crotch blowout on my Weird Guy N&F's. I've had them for about 16 months (3-7 wears a week during fall/winter/spring) and washed them once. They are more comfortable than sweatpants because of how they conform and stretch to fit your legs perfectly.

If you have any questions please feel free to message me!
Dec 25 2013 1:58PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
At your local mall or skate shop yes, but there are big differences in materials/production styles that warrant high prices from the big players in the denim industry.
Dec 25 2013 1:59PM
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Chief.Queef
Posts: 4427 - Karma: 381
I have both a pair of N&F's and unbrandeds and I can definitely tell the difference. Although it is not a big difference its worth the extra 40-60 bucks to pick up a simple pair of N&Fs.
Dec 25 2013 2:00PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
ha they are the same dude, same exact fabric, same exact stitching done by the same exact people in the same exact place
Dec 25 2013 2:02PM
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Chief.Queef
Posts: 4427 - Karma: 381
http://www.styleforum.net/t/150423/the-unbranded-brand-jeans

doesn't mean they are the same quality.
Dec 25 2013 2:19PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
Ya, they are. I've talked with Jay at blue owl about this, they are the same. You are going to see no difference in quality in the normal n&f models and unbrandeds, you literally pay less for unbranded because they do not have the n&f name on them. Now this does change once we start talking about things like elephant 3's or the kamakazi models, but the normal pairs of n&f are no better made in anyway then unbrandeds
Dec 25 2013 2:25PM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
Crazy. I thought my unbranded fit well and are comfy. I just figured for $90 it's a good start point. I'm going to check out those other brands though
Dec 25 2013 2:26PM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
I still think OP should go with a pair of unbranded. For $90 they will outlast two pairs of 511s. Then if OP decides down the road? Get a pair of expensive selvage denim.
Dec 25 2013 2:30PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
21oz only, otherwise spend the $ for something else
Dec 25 2013 2:32PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
I got a pair of 22oz n&f elephant skinnys by accident not knowing what the hell raw denim meant. Was pretty confused when I first got them and it felt like I was wearing 2/4s. But i stuck with it and have been wearing them probably 4 times a week for a year, no wash, and they're comfortable as fuck. Tough as hell too.

I'm looking for a more lighter weight, top end pair now. I love the way N&Fs fit, but want something a bit higher quality. The price you pay for good raw denim really isn't bad when you think of them as ine of a few pairs of pants rather than like 10 pairs of regular pants.
Dec 25 2013 2:36PM
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Shlogan
Posts: 4942 - Karma: 430
Just curious, i have the weird guy left hand twills, and was under the impression this was mimicking the way APC are stitched. does Unbranded offer this style? I do look forward to a different brand and price point in the next pair i purchase, although i haven't had any of the blowout issue you had with more than 8 months of daily wear.

Also curious as to if you see the investment in more expensive denim means that you can abuse them more, wearing them when normal jeans would get trashed, or if you tend to keep the more expensive denim away from damaging activities. Then durability shouldn't even come into play as much. I would guess that most people would find someone crazy for trekking in the woods ect with up to $400 pair of pants, rather saving them for nice occasions.

I dont mind if some of this sounds ignorant to someone more into it than me, just lookin to see what your opinion is.
Dec 25 2013 2:43PM
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Heart
Posts: 6156 - Karma: 3,462
And here I thought my 15oz deep indigos were a hard way to get introduced to raw denim...

Any chance you could post some pictures?
Dec 25 2013 2:57PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
Left hand twill refers to the production of the denim, this style has the grain going to the left instead of the right. I'm not to up to date with APC's line as they never fit me right and their models never really interested me much.

The whole point with raw/selvedge is to get them to break in in such a way they are unique to you. So if you like to spend time hiking, what's wrong with wearing your jeans? Typically the $300+ pairs are 19oz and up, which is noticeably heavier and more durable then the same fit in a 13oz. This weight, along with the high quality indigo dye processes used on these higher end models tend to lead to higher contrast fades, which is very desirable to any denim lover. They are just jeans at the end of the day, price shouldn't really effect what you do in them. You want them to get used and abused so they fade and reflect you as a person.
Dec 25 2013 3:10PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
Yeah the first day I could hardly bend my knees. Took them on a 2 hour hike after a couple days and that broke them in. And ya I'll see if I can post some, best fall/winter/spring jeans ever.
Dec 25 2013 3:24PM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
I am no denim connoisseur, obviously. But I am no fan of denim fades. Maybe I haven't seen any good ones?

Can you post what you think a nice fade is?

I'm one of the few that prefers the dark crisp look of denim. I want to avoid fading my denim. I do think the fade can be sexy on women when it outlines their curves and prominences n shit, but i don't like it on men.

Anyways. I get that you hold interests heavily invested into selvage denim. But you're probably in another category than most on NS. I see the points you're making. But have you looked at the topic from OPs point of view?

He is dabbling into raw denim, he barely knows what he wants. Do you really think it's worth your time to suggest very expensive pairs? Coming from 511s, if he gets a cheap pair of UB then he'll get an idea of what he likes and what he wants out of his next pair.
Dec 25 2013 4:52PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
I agree with this 80 bucks is a nice cheap way to get into it. especially now that UB offers that 21 oz stuff.


OP if you dont go with the 21 oz though, size down. They stretch a ton. I went with a 34 which was snug but totally buttonable when i got em. wish I woulda gone 33.
Dec 25 2013 4:55PM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
Also, I can see how some denim is worth more than others. Absolutely.

But there is not a doubt in my mind that many of these companies are ridiculously expensive. Tellason has a plain cotton hoodie that you could but at walmart for $10 listed at $185 on their website.
Dec 25 2013 4:57PM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
Yea OP. He might be right. I got 34, they're a tad big at the waist now. But I also dropped 10-15 lbs so that's why i thought mine stayed the same size. But either way, do not expect them to break in like levi stretch denim.

They are stiff and uncomfortable, but once they break in they're great.
Dec 25 2013 5:01PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
You arent buyin 475 gsm hoodies at walmart.
Dec 25 2013 5:01PM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
That's true. I still feel it's pricey even at that weight.

But all that asides, i'm not going to argue about brand name and pricing on clothing. It's such a predictable argument that has been beaten to death way too many times. I have no doubt about some raw denim I see and the prices that go along with it.

I understand that importing unique denim, production costs, limited supply, and what not all drive prices up. Especially for many smaller companies.

So dropping that subject before it turns into something else..

My main point is that Unbranded in the market has competitive pricing for what you get. It's way on the cheaper end and will give OP a chance to feel out selvage denim. Not to mention if he wants to fade them n stuff, it's probably be comforting knowing he's fading a $90 pair. Helps reduce the stress and worry of messing up a $200-$300 pair.

Then that way in his next pair he will know more about what he wants for fit, weight, etc..
Dec 25 2013 5:09PM
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whoa-dere
Posts: 10596 - Karma: 7,103
You wear jeans to nice occasions?
Dec 25 2013 5:15PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
I dont think you understand, the whole point of raw denim is that it is not treated so it will fade naturally. If you domt want them to fade dont buy raw denim.
Dec 25 2013 6:20PM
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neutralzombie
Posts: 8629 - Karma: 606
I also thought raw denim had a lot to do with environmental stuff given that using indigo dye is one of the most destructive processes
Dec 25 2013 10:00PM
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Crispy.
Posts: 6109 - Karma: 7,683
Just got these for Christmas today, stoked! http://nakedandfamousdenim.com/2013/06/weirdguy-left-hand-twill-selvedge/?cat=97
Dec 25 2013 10:01PM
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Heart
Posts: 6156 - Karma: 3,462
Only if it's unsanforized. Same as non-raw denim
Dec 25 2013 10:03PM
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CMYK
Posts: 1101 - Karma: 336
Can anyone tell me more about the Moromoto/Jiberish Colab demim? (https://shops.companybe.com/jiberishclothing/product.cfm?CFID=42848202&CFTOKEN=75567701&ProdID=624) I grabbed em at a good price, but I don't know a whole bunch about the quality of them denim, who took care of the production, and whatnot.
Dec 25 2013 10:21PM
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Shlogan
Posts: 4942 - Karma: 430
not fancy, but something like a party/ bar scene, school or work where some people may prefer a "cleaner" looking denim instead of distressed and heavily used. thats certainly not how ive worn mine however.
Dec 25 2013 10:33PM
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