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POTD or GOTD?

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Jamie_Baril
Posts: 2196 - Karma: 2,513
I would like to start a discussion and ask the NS population a couple of questions

As you may have noticed, Photo of the Day has recently turned into GIF of the Day.

Fact: A GIF is a Video Clip on a loop, not a photo.
Fact: A vast majority of GIF's posted here are not posted by the original content creator, just regurgitated content from a random.

GIF's are awesome,who doesn't like watching a banger over and over? BUT the issue here is in the integrity of Photo of the Day. Photographers and riders alike all strive to 'Win NS' for the day and have their original content on the homepage for all to see. Content that fits into the category of POTD because it is a photo, and not a recycled video clip.

Do you guys think that it is fair that GIF's can now get POTD?

I personally think that photo of the day should stay traditional, and be photo's only.

Now I am not saying that we should cut out GIF's and not reward those with high ratings and views, but perhaps create an entirely alternate rewards system where it pairs GIF's against GIF's.


DISCUSS
Dec 20 2013 3:34PM
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SeeFGrant
Posts: 9 - Karma: 141
GOTD fosho. Gifs are awesome we bring on the gif battles!
Dec 20 2013 3:52PM
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gcp
Posts: 184 - Karma: 806
Keep it traditional. Photo Of the day should be made for only photos.

GIFs are epic, but if a gif can get photo of the day then why can't a sequence shot get video of the day.

If we allow Giffing to continue, ask yourself, what next? People will be marrying their pets, bacon will be considered kosher, and cheerleading will be considered a sport. Stop the chaos before it happens.
Dec 20 2013 4:40PM
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Hammyslapwagon
Posts: 1261 - Karma: 1,411
Well it sounds like the community has already made up its mind.  If Gifs are getting more upvotes than photos, I'd say the community prefers gifs
Dec 20 2013 7:13PM
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p-fo
Posts: 9372 - Karma: 6,155
Doesn't matter to me as long as the photo/gif is uploaded by the original creator.
Dec 20 2013 7:37PM
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Jamie_Baril
Posts: 2196 - Karma: 2,513
This is beside's the point.

The issue lies in the fact that a GIF is a videoclip and not a Photo, so therefore it should not qualify for photo of the day.
Dec 20 2013 9:12PM
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Hammyslapwagon
Posts: 1261 - Karma: 1,411
Just put a suggestion in for two different categories
Dec 20 2013 9:21PM
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hawaiiansteeze
Posts: 3255 - Karma: 3,226
I completely agree. theres a bunch of gifs that have been posted by people that are not associated with the original clip. they just rip the sickest shot of peoples videos and post it as gifs.

The picture section of this site should be dedicated to a single shot of someones skiing.
Dec 20 2013 10:02PM
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p-fo
Posts: 9372 - Karma: 6,155
The other problem is that they don't play smoothly. So I'm gonna hop on this train and say we shouldn't allow gifs to be POTD.
Dec 20 2013 11:16PM
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gcp
Posts: 184 - Karma: 806
yeah they don't even play smoothly too
Dec 21 2013 12:02AM
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gcp
Posts: 184 - Karma: 806
like this suggestion right here? " but perhaps create an entirely alternate rewards system where it pairs GIF's against GIF's." ????
Dec 21 2013 12:05AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22708 - Karma: 76,635
Throwing a wrench in the mix here....

Click for larger image

What about that? Its a gif shot by a photographer, and is original content.

You can't just disallow all gifs, as frankly that would make us fearing the future. I mean it'd be like print guys that say web photos aren't legit because only printed photos are.

There's a new future for photography, and we need to embrace it.

I think the biggest problem is we need a better way to differentiate content you're just sharing vs. content you created. I wouldn't want to stop people sharing awesome content on here.

Dec 21 2013 2:15PM
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Sklar
Posts: 8864 - Karma: 31,612
This right here is the crux IMO
Dec 21 2013 5:11PM
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Miomo
Posts: 4302 - Karma: 14,135
The point of POTD is so that you see cool shit. I love allowing Gifs to be POTD
Dec 21 2013 6:18PM
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gravel
Posts: 5520 - Karma: 42,297
As the photographer of said GIF, I do have to side with Jamie. While there are cool GIFs that are uploaded (shameless self appeasement), Jamie is right in saying that the majority of GIFs are regurgitated media through someone. I think you touched on this point very well in your post, Bishop, since you said that this is really an issue in creating content vs. sharing content.

Hell, I even purposefully downsized my GIFs to under 1000 pixels so they wouldn't make the front page (Not that I am that confident in my reputation - I have not made front page before) because I think that it doesn't fit as well and it loads very slowly for users with slower internet. It took nearly 2 minutes for the Adam Delorme GIF to load on my internet connection at home and about 30 seconds at my school's.

There are two steps that I think could help out with this process.

1. A new category for photography: GIFs. Hell, you don't even have to worry about people uploading media to wrong categories to get more views in this case, just have the uploader look at the extension, and if it's a GIF, don't let it be posted in other categories (That being said, this is an idealistic solution. I have no experience coding and am not sure if it would be extremely difficult or easy to implement into the uploader's system.)

2. Secondly, and more importantly, a new "required field" for uploading content. I think it would be incredibly valuable to, for all media uploads or embeds, to create a "Did you create this content?" field. If the user checks "No", then have a secondary field to give credit to the creator (These two fields would be REQUIRED to post) and a third field to link to the creator/source that would be optional.



Another idea that I have that I might consider pitching in the next few days is more prominent of a location for the "Media of the Day". Photo of the Day has it great because the uploader gets their shot on the front page for 24 hours, but video of the day has to be accessed specifically through a link, as does the most popular news. I'll get to that in a few days' time!
Dec 22 2013 12:27AM
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gcp
Posts: 184 - Karma: 806
^this.

Dec 22 2013 10:58PM
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gcp
Posts: 184 - Karma: 806
You are missing the point.

everyone that has posted agrees that GIFs are epic and should not go anywhere, the conversation isnt about if GIFs are cool or not, the conversation is about if it is fair for a GIF to be in the same competition with a PHOTO.


Just because you can upload a GIF the same way as a PHOTO, does not mean in anyway they deserve to play in the same ballpark.

A GIF is a series of photos, not just a singular snapshot in time.

Lets use the recent "press it out" gif potd as an example. Now consider a reality where that GIF was instead a photo.
-The GIF allowed us to see how pressed and for how long, therefore giving it an advantage to a snapshot in time where you see a dude just frozen there on his tails.
ASK YOURSELF HONESTLY.
----if that GIF was just a photo, would it have gotten the same response?
id put money of the fact if it was a singular photo it wouldn't have even gone trending, let alone get potd.


Why are we allowing GIFs and PHOTOs to compete for the same award when clearly they are totally two different things?

MY vote goes towards a spot for each.

-Photo of the day
-Video of the day
-Gif of the day

I think this will also drive people to start creating MORE gifs, which is awesome.
Dec 22 2013 11:10PM
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Sit
Posts: 177 - Karma: 293
This is a superb idea.

You could have them scrolling though as a slideshow (obviously not the entire video, but a screenshot with a play button would suffice) - rather than simply the best media of the day. Admittedly, this might diminish POTD, but promotion of gifs and videos would be sweet.

Also, just an idea (and this may not be the greatest place to pitch it), but in the 'hot news' corner of the homepage, you could also have the 'hot thread' scrolling through. Shit, even throw in 'hot review', or some other obscure awesome part of this site that's overlooked too often. BUT threads already get enough traffic, whereas I feel news still needs more active promotion. And news is also, well, news. So maybe thats a dumb idea. I have made myself redundant. Bedtime.
Dec 23 2013 12:59AM
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Kretzschmar
Posts: 6709 - Karma: 98,331
I know I'm not the only one uploading GIFs but I am aware I am most guilty of uploading them as of late.

I would like to add that I was specifically asked to upload the GIFs from the VOTD GIFs that I post to the NS tumblr to NS as well, and I wouldn't have done it if I wasn't asked.

Also, when I upload my GIFs I pull the credits/skiers directly from the video that was VOTD so crediting the artist is never an issue.
Dec 23 2013 1:18AM
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gcp
Posts: 184 - Karma: 806
Again, that is all fine and dandy, and fair in my book.

really the question here is, is it fair they compete for the same award when they are two completely different beasts?

POTD
VOTD
GOTD

FTW!
Dec 23 2013 10:19AM
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gcp
Posts: 184 - Karma: 806
https://www.newschoolers.com/photo/679581.0/Cray-Fed?c=3


^ NOT UPLOADED BY ORIGINAL CONTENT CREATOR, NOR ANY CREDITS HAVE BEEN GIVEN.

BAD
Dec 24 2013 1:38PM
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Miomo
Posts: 4302 - Karma: 14,135
Actually, I didn't miss the point. I actually clearly said what the point was in my post. Who the hell cares if it's a photo or gif? There are pictures that are better than videos, and there are also videos that are better than pictures. Videos have a higher quantity of information, but it's quality that matters. Even playing field.

Also, the fact that gifs are often not even the poster's own content is not even an issue and shouldn't even be discussed in here because it's totally irrelevant to the subject at hand. Just add another field when posting, as was already suggested.
Dec 24 2013 2:54PM
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Kretzschmar
Posts: 6709 - Karma: 98,331
Exactly. That's some shit that needs to stop.
Dec 24 2013 3:00PM
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00000000
Posts: 11075 - Karma: 82,508
To be honest, I'm not a fan of having a .gif as POTD.

I like the idea of having a GOTD, but at the moment I don't think we have enough to keep it fresh. Maybe we introduce it and rally everyone to upload more gifs?

I'll monitor this thread and we'll make the needed changes once we're back at it in the New Year.
Dec 28 2013 2:27PM
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SeeFGrant
Posts: 9 - Karma: 141
I think having GOTD will honestly drive/inspire more people to upload .gifs, maybe even shoot for .gifs specifically.

I know for a fact i would start making .gifs if there was a dedicated, more rewarding spot for them.
Dec 30 2013 4:08AM
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nutz.
Posts: 3150 - Karma: 6,712
I'm not a big fan of them either because well... they aren't photos
Dec 31 2013 12:31AM
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SeeFGrant
Posts: 9 - Karma: 141
^exactly
Dec 31 2013 3:04AM
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CMYK
Posts: 1101 - Karma: 336
Perhaps a "Shot of the Day"? A .gif or video shorter than, say, 15 sec. showcasing a single trick?
Dec 31 2013 5:46PM
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bakedpow
Posts: 8770 - Karma: 10,467
i completely disagree with this statement. i in no way think gifs are the future of photography. the point of photography is more to capture a single moment and make it frozen in time, sequences are more gif like but still frozen in time no movement. i love gifs but it disagrees with everything i am as a photographer to say gifs are the future of photography.
Dec 31 2013 6:28PM
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corona
Posts: 12805 - Karma: 32,827
yes yes yes. have this.
Dec 31 2013 6:47PM
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90053
Posts: 2565 - Karma: 3,728
what about harry potter interactive photos and paintings?
Jan 1 2014 8:36AM
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corona
Posts: 12805 - Karma: 32,827
gifs should not be allowed picture of the day simply because it's an easy way to take away from someone who actually put effort into a photo.

Anyone can automatically make a gif of anything in about 5 minutes using a bunch of different websites. It takes no skill whatsoever and it's using the work of someone else, essentially plagiarism since there's no citation to the original creator.

These then take away from someone who went to the trouble of actually getting out on the hill and getting a really nice picture and diminish the skill involved be having it beat out by something anyone can do who has a computer a the know how to tell a mouse from a floppy disk



I mean this was beat of by the current gif on the front page. One actually took a shit load of effort and time to setup and skill, the other was a few clicks of the mouse away.

Click for larger image



and of course people are going to upvote gifs en-masse when they get the unfair advantage of being moving and are always made from the best of the best of film clips.
Jan 8 2014 9:57AM
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gravel
Posts: 5520 - Karma: 42,297
So this ^
Jan 8 2014 10:59AM
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nutz.
Posts: 3150 - Karma: 6,712
yeah that definitely sucks... but at least gif's don't get potd on the social media platforms. I mean we definitely skip them on instagram and facebook, not sure about tumblr
Jan 8 2014 12:09PM
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Kretzschmar
Posts: 6709 - Karma: 98,331
i dont post them on the tumblr either.

From now on I will make an effort to only post GIFs from the VOTDs that are less that 1000px wide as to not get POTD.

I apologize to those who have been affected by my scumbaggery and carelessness.


Jan 8 2014 12:48PM
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JuliusJ
Posts: 3778 - Karma: 2,106
Definitely a little annoyed with the non original content POTD (GOTD?) I mean they are sweet! But annoying to have load and not fair to people actually going out and working hard to get those shots, both for non established and established photographers/filmers
Jan 8 2014 1:31PM
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-WZ-
Posts: 3600 - Karma: 6,582
ding ding ding
Jan 9 2014 12:34AM
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gravel
Posts: 5520 - Karma: 42,297
I hate to be persistent but I think this needs a solution soon. Too many people are just clipping gifs from popular edits and it's superseding photos that real producers are putting out.
Jan 10 2014 2:32PM
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Kretzschmar
Posts: 6709 - Karma: 98,331
And by "too many people" you mean me. I understand that I have been posting too many. Normally I have just been posting the GIF from the VOTD per request of higher ups, recently I have posted a few from prior edits.


I agree whole-heartedly that we need a separate GIF category of some sort though.
Jan 10 2014 3:24PM
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nutz.
Posts: 3150 - Karma: 6,712
Not super sure what it is, but solution incoming soon! just hold tight for a bit
Jan 10 2014 4:25PM
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gravel
Posts: 5520 - Karma: 42,297
@nutz Woohoo!

@Krotch It's nothing personal, of course! I don't dislike you or anything for it, and I do like seeing them quite a bit, so don't stop! Maybe for now keep them under 1000px wide so they're not cover qualified?
Jan 11 2014 9:00PM
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00000000
Posts: 11075 - Karma: 82,508
Animated .gif's can no longer land POTD
Jan 14 2014 10:32AM
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Kretzschmar
Posts: 6709 - Karma: 98,331
i know man! no hard feelings.

I think one thing I will also check for is to make sure proper credit placed in the photo description and make an adjustment to it if needed.

@mousseau to clarify, i can upload GIFs larger than 1000px and not worry about it correct? Although i may just continue keeping them below that so they load better
Jan 18 2014 3:12PM
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00000000
Posts: 11075 - Karma: 82,508
If there's an animation, it'll get skipped when our system is picking POTD.
Jan 20 2014 8:18AM
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