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The Official: "What is wrong with my boots?" Thread
This thread should be seen as an accompaniment to the "How To Buy Ski Boots" thread, more specifically aimed at solving a problem with your existing ski boots. Rather than clog up Gear Talk with countless repeating threads, please dump your boot-fitting related questions here and we will do our best to help you out.
Remember, nothing is a substitute for going to a real boot-fitter; they can see your foot, we can't. So if you can't get to a boot-fitter, or are frustrated with your current one, we can help point you in the right direction. Try to be as descriptive of your problem as possible and post pics if you can. The more information we get from you, the more successful we will hopefully be in helping you out.
vtmoonbooterThere's like a little over 2cm maybe 2.5. Would a footbed help the heel rise feeling and shin bang? and yes they were heat molded.
Size sounds roughly normal. But without a footbed, your foot is going to twist & move around. When this happens, you get heel lift and shin bang. Getting a good footbed is your first order of action and then re-mold the liner.
Here’s my story of how I spent numerous days trying to get myself some good-fitting boots, but still achieved no result.
I have short, slightly wide feet with high arches and high insteps.
Here’s a screenshot from the Fischer app
Real measurements:
254mm/99mm left
250mm/99mm right
I’ve tried around 20 boots and almost all of them were crushing my insteps immediately even after sizing up. Here are the ones that I’ve made notes of:
FISCHER Ranger 110 275 - toes are fine, instep crushed
HEAD Kore 2 270 - pinky pressured, instep crushed
Salomon Shift Pro 265 - pinky pressured, instep crushed
Atomic Hawx Prime XTD 275 - toes are fine, instep crushed hard
Rossignol Alltrack Pro 265 - toes are crushed, instep pressured
Tecnica Mach1 MV 275 - toes are slightly pressured, instep pressured moderately
Couldn’t find any popular high volume boots like Magna in my size to try.
So out of in-stock options Dalbello Panterra 120 260/265 are the only boots that didn’t immediately crush my toes and insteps. I spent 30 minutes in the store and my feet felt fine. The size also felt right length-wise. There was some light pressure on the instep, but I thought it would go away over time.
So I got the Panterras.
Every time I skied my instep hurt, fingers from the pinky side went numb, some pain over the ball. It was worse when I was not skiing but just standing in the boots.
I went to a boot fitter, got myself a custom Sidas sole and heat-molded the boots.
Heat molding helped with my toes, but didn’t help with the instep (maybe it was compensated by the custom sole).
The boot fitter said it would’ve been easier to make the instep bigger in 2-piece boots, but with a 3-piece there’s now only an option of grinding the plastic sole to lower the feet.
So I agreed and grinding actually did help with the instep.
Now this is what happens:
When I buckle to the middle - they feel loose, especially above the front of the feet near the big toe. Tongues feel loose. There is enough control for simple skiing, but trying to jump/butter feels uncontrollable.
When I buckle hard - everything starts hurting again, the pinky toes, the insteps.
I’m going to the boot fitter again to see if there’s anything to do.
But I guess I screwed up since now my boots are too loose in the front?
P.S. Could you guys please recommend some more boot models with shells that would be fitting to my type of feet (high insteps, wide but not too wide)? I'd like to try some more options
cloudedI went to a boot fitter, got myself a custom Sidas sole and heat-molded the boots.
The boot fitter said it would’ve been easier to make the instep bigger in 2-piece boots, but with a 3-piece there’s now only an option of grinding the plastic sole to lower the feet.
I meant Sidas footbeds and plastic insoles instead of soles
cloudedI meant Sidas footbeds and plastic insoles instead of soles
Just replying to this so I don't have your original longer post quoted.
Were you at a fitter when you tried on all those boots? A few of the ones you listed wouldn't have any chance of fitting you, particularly the shift. The instep is far too low.
Did your fitter just grind the boot board, or did they grind the bottom of the shell itself? Those dalbellos you have don't have much of a boot board.
When it comes to your panterra's your fitter is correct that its hard to stretch the instep on a 3 piece boot. I've had really good success grinding the plastic on the tongue of the liner, and off the tongue of the boot itself. I've had customers with similar sounding issues, and this can help. This would only apply if you have the tongue style liner, not the wrap. I would check with your fitter, and have them do any grinding.
Since I don't use the Fischer scanner at the shop I work at, so I'm not too sure what all those numbers equate to. Maybe someone else could speak more on that system. It could be helpful to have your fitter measure your instep-heel diameter, so we could get a better sense of how high volume your feet are.
You're not the only one out there with high volume feet, I'm sure you'll get it sorted out eventually.
SubstituteWere you at a fitter when you tried on all those boots? A few of the ones you listed wouldn't have any chance of fitting you, particularly the shift. The instep is far too low.
Did your fitter just grind the boot board, or did they grind the bottom of the shell itself? Those dalbellos you have don't have much of a boot board.
No, I was just trying all boots with 100+ last I could find in all stores around the city since instep info usually is not specified. The stock is low in stores now and the store where my fitter works only has a few Fischer/Atomic race models. The fitter recommended Salomon S/Pro HV, but I couldn't find it in my size.
The grinding was done on the bootboard, yeah, not the shell. I'll suggest him to grind the plastic on the liner too, sound like it may allow me to buckle up more.
SubstituteYou're not the only one out there with high volume feet, I'm sure you'll get it sorted out eventually.
Thanks for believing in me :D I hope I'd be able to enjoy skiing once in a while instead of struggling
cloudedNo, I was just trying all boots with 100+ last I could find in all stores around the city since instep info usually is not specified. The stock is low in stores now and the store where my fitter works only has a few Fischer/Atomic race models. The fitter recommended Salomon S/Pro HV, but I couldn't find it in my size.
The grinding was done on the bootboard, yeah, not the shell. I'll suggest him to grind the plastic on the liner too, sound like it may allow me to buckle up more.
Thanks for believing in me :D I hope I'd be able to enjoy skiing once in a while instead of struggling
Gotcha, yeah inventory is a bit tricky at the moment.
If you are having trouble with a sloppy fit after grinding the liner, maybe see if you can get some unmodified boot boards.
S/Pro HV would certainly be a good option. If you can find a Nordica Sport Machine, that may also be a good option.
@clouded it sounds like you need to go see a different fitter. The instep is a very tricky area to modify therefore, the bootfitter should prioritize that part of the fit when helping you pick a boot. Ski boots are fit to match the volume of your foot, not length especially someone with a high instep. Different cabrio (3 piece) boots are always worth a try like that Panterra because of the opening on the top of the boot underneath the tongue. They definitely can offer relief along this area especially for those who have a prominent instep bump. Sometimes even upsizing a 2-piece boot to accommodate the instep ends up working out. It's all case by case.
Keep in mind custom insoles take up quite a bit of volume. I might experiment and try boots on with just the stock insole to see if this alleviates the instep pressure. Custom insoles have many benefits, but they aren't for everyone and what good are they going to do you if your issue is excessive instep pressure?
A high instep foot can be a difficult fit even for a veteran and either way I'd definitely get it sorted out with a pro. If the situation with your current fitter goes south, let us know your location and someone could probably refer you to a fitter. I wish I could be more help man, best of luck!
SubstituteIf you are having trouble with a sloppy fit after grinding the liner, maybe see if you can get some unmodified boot boards.
Okay, this one was easy to fix . I went for a second try with my boot fitter and he used volume reducers from my Panterras box. It brought back the volume around the toes back to normal. Unfortunately it also brought back additional pressure on the instep.
So after that he did the following:
Grinded outer plastic tongues
Grinded upper parts of the boot shell
Grinded some plastic on the liners tongues
It feels better now, not 100%, but definitely better. I'll give it a try on the weekends and see how it works.
kvan@clouded it sounds like you need to go see a different fitter. The instep is a very tricky area to modify therefore, the bootfitter should prioritize that part of the fit when helping you pick a boot.
kvan@clouded
A high instep foot can be a difficult fit even for a veteran and either way I'd definitely get it sorted out with a pro. If the situation with your
current fitter goes south, let us know your location and someone could probably refer you to a fitter. I wish I could be more help man, best of luck!
It's not like he forced me to get the Panterras. Chronologically it was like this:
I had the Panterras already -> He told me it would be easier to try something like S/Pro HV -> I couldn't find it or any other HV boots in stock -> He said that we can try to fit the Panterras.
He works in a shop that specializes on skiing sport teams, so there's a good reputation.
And there are no boot fitter specializing on freeskiers in my area at all.
I live on the ourskirts of Europe far from major skiing destinations and all the skiing know-how comes here a little bit slower. Currently here it is considered the best to find the smallest fitting boot possible and stretch it. When I ask people here if I should size up most tell me "no way! no more than one size over your foot length".
But you guys give me some hope :)
I measured my insteps, so my feet are:
Left - 254mm long, 99mm wide, 286 instep
Right - 250mm long, 99mm wide, 281 instep
So should I just ignore the idea of fitting to the length and size up next time choosing boots?
I guess if I could try 280/285 boots I would have a bigger selection cause narrow/medium last models would probably fit in that size.
Ok I gotcha my apologies I misinterpreted. You weren't lying about the high instep based on those measurements. In your scenario the measuring device is saying you have a 25.5 foot, but in reality, you have a 28.5 foot based on the heel to instep perimeter. Yes, it's common that skiers go with their measured size or a size down with an average instep height, but there is an exception to every rule and your situation is one of them. Again, it's all about locking in the instep/ankle region in the boot without impinging blood flow. If this is properly accounted for, length of the boot is irrelevant. This video explains it really well: Interview with Jim Schaffner - YouTube
Wrenching down on the buckles could also be the culprit so make sure the buckles simply are closing the boot around your foot with light closure. They shouldn't be used as a vice for tension as this can definitely lead to instep pain. You might want to see if you can try on a 27.5 Panterra/Lupo AX 120 as well. Keep us updated.
**This post was edited on Feb 8th 2022 at 7:41:14pm
Shin bang is usually from two things:
1. Not having your boots tight enough
2. Landing/skiing backseat.
That said, the stock liners on the Lupo AX are pretty terrible, and like to slide around in the shell. I'd replace them with an aftermarket liner, especially if you're using them for park instead of touring (like they're designed for). Outside of that, the footbed comments here are spot on.
vtmoonbooterThere's like a little over 2cm maybe 2.5. Would a footbed help the heel rise feeling and shin bang? and yes they were heat molded.
**This post was edited on Feb 10th 2022 at 10:04:58pm
SubstituteS/Pro HV would certainly be a good option. If you can find a Nordica Sport Machine, that may also be a good option.
Couldn't find Nordicas, but I was able to find S/Pro HV 26/26,5.
Strangely, they did not feel high volume for me at all.
Insteps were highly pressured the same way as all other boots.
There was also not so much room around the calves, I was barely able to close the upper buckle.
kvanKeep us updated.
Tried the boots.
With additional volume reducers they felt snug overall, but there wasn't enough room around the insteps even after all the grinding.
I removed the volume reducers and was finally able to ski without pain in my insteps, so that's a win :)
Without volume reducers there is too much room above the front of the feet.
It does not affect downhill skiing at all, but feels like it is harder to jump.
Maybe it is possible to solve that with some shims over the liner.
I also got myself a pair of Intuition Powerwrap liners and want to try them first.
Today I'm gonna go and mold them, cause without molding they feel too tight and I am barely able to buckle up the boots.
I have a question regarding sizing up for high insteps - how should a shell check work in that case?
Should I still expect 1-2 fingers in bigger shell cause insteps shouldn't allow feet to move forward too much?
If your ankle/instep is properly locked into the back of the boot without restricting blood flow, this will prevent your foot from moving forward in the boot. Having enough space between the top of your instep and the top of the boot is really going to be the biggest culprit here. Length of the boot is usually disregarded because your instep is most likely going to be too high for any boot in your measured size. Like I mentioned, it's a more challenging fit and I'd recommend working with a highly experienced bootfitter on this that has a trained eye for this stuff. Ask around at your local hill I'm sure there are coaches up there that could point you in the right direction.
**This post was edited on Feb 20th 2022 at 7:44:34am
I got my Intuition liners molded today and now it feels great :)
There's zero instep pressure now and they feel snug. Maybe a bit too snug over the toes, but I think that will pack out or I will remold later.
I think the biggest difference now is that Powerwrap liners are very thick around the calves and it allows me to put upper buckle in 1/2 position and it already feels snug. With original liners I had to close the upper buckles almost to the max and it lead to having to tie other buckles more too, which lead to instep pressure.
I spoke to a lot of people here and unfortunately, the attitude at my local hills is too spartan (or probably just too ignorant).
- Boots are too tight? That's how it should be, the liners will pack out!
- Feet getting numb during skiing? That's how it should be, just unbuckle on the lift!
But the good thing is that I've relayed all the info you guys gave me to my bootfitter, so there's at least one person here now that understands that there's an issue with high instep feet.
I think that my case is solved for now.
Next time I go on a ski trip to Austria or Italy I'll try to get a consultation with an expert who has experience with such feet and maybe find another pair of compatible boots.
So about two years I decided it was time for new boots, i got the Full Tilt Drop kick in a 27.5 (which was the size that I had always gotten) and after a season of severe toe-bang and bad experiences, I was told to go down a size which I did, i sold those boots and got the Full Tilt classics in a 27.5, I had them fit with a bootfitter in SLC and it all felt good and I was excited that I was not going to have issues with boots for another season, well I was wrong. I have an issue to where my left boot fits like perfectly and my right foot is super loose. The area where it feels loose is right above the cuneiform bones to where the tibia meets the rest of the ankle bones in the middle area of the foot. (Like the top of the foot closest to the leg), And it is annoying because my boots are as tight as they can go at that spot and I can still feel quite a bit of space in that area while the other boot is totally fine.
I went back to the bootfitter where I had purchased them and had them initially fit and he did some work; added in a custom footbed, added a heel-lift, and even put some foam on the tongue of the boot to increase pressure. After a day on skis, the boot felt basically the same, my right boot still feels a little loose while all the cables are as tight as they can go.
Has anyone ever had this problem or does anyone know of any solutions? I really dont want to have to go through the process of buying new boots again as I get married in a week or so, aka i have no money... Any suggestions?
TreyDudskiAlright peeps I need some help: heres my story
So about two years I decided it was time for new boots, i got the Full Tilt Drop kick in a 27.5 (which was the size that I had always gotten) and after a season of severe toe-bang and bad experiences, I was told to go down a size which I did, i sold those boots and got the Full Tilt classics in a 27.5, I had them fit with a bootfitter in SLC and it all felt good and I was excited that I was not going to have issues with boots for another season, well I was wrong. I have an issue to where my left boot fits like perfectly and my right foot is super loose. The area where it feels loose is right above the cuneiform bones to where the tibia meets the rest of the ankle bones in the middle area of the foot. (Like the top of the foot closest to the leg), And it is annoying because my boots are as tight as they can go at that spot and I can still feel quite a bit of space in that area while the other boot is totally fine.
I went back to the bootfitter where I had purchased them and had them initially fit and he did some work; added in a custom footbed, added a heel-lift, and even put some foam on the tongue of the boot to increase pressure. After a day on skis, the boot felt basically the same, my right boot still feels a little loose while all the cables are as tight as they can go.
Has anyone ever had this problem or does anyone know of any solutions? I really dont want to have to go through the process of buying new boots again as I get married in a week or so, aka i have no money... Any suggestions?
So, you were in a 27.5 and went down to a 27.5? Typo?
Boot sounds way too big for you still. In a properly sized & fit boot, there is no need max out ANY buckle on the boot.
Remove the liner from the shell and:
1.step into the shell with a barefoot
2. slide your foot into the front of the shell so your toes just barely touch the front (not jammed, not not touching)
3. examine the space behind your heel. 1cm = high performance fit, 2cm = kinda normal, 3cm = problematically way too big
onenerdykidSo, you were in a 27.5 and went down to a 27.5? Typo?
Boot sounds way too big for you still. In a properly sized & fit boot, there is no need max out ANY buckle on the boot.
Remove the liner from the shell and:
1.step into the shell with a barefoot
2. slide your foot into the front of the shell so your toes just barely touch the front (not jammed, not not touching)
3. examine the space behind your heel. 1cm = high performance fit, 2cm = kinda normal, 3cm = problematically way too big
Sorry I meant 26.5, but the test seems to show that it is normal.. I will do a double check and make sure
ThaLoraxShin bang is usually from two things:
1. Not having your boots tight enough
2. Landing/skiing backseat.
That said, the stock liners on the Lupo AX are pretty terrible, and like to slide around in the shell. I'd replace them with an aftermarket liner, especially if you're using them for park instead of touring (like they're designed for). Outside of that, the footbed comments here are spot on.
**This post was edited on Feb 10th 2022 at 10:04:58pm
My bad just seeing this now, I got the Lupos thinking they would be a good middle ground for both. is there anything specific to look for in aftermarket liners or brands that are more reliable? I don't know much about them at all. thanks for the help!
Intuition is the most common and easiest brand to find aftermarket liners. If you're not doing much hiking/touring, the Power Wrap and Pro Wrap models work well with it, but you could go with the Pro Tongue as well if you prefer a tongue liner. If you want better range of motion for hiking/touring, look at the Pro Tour and the Pro Wrap Tour (I personslly removed the strings on mine). Most of these models come in LV, MV and HV. HV is good if you have skinny feet and need to fill space, and vice versa for LV. It's opposite of how the LV, and HV shells work.
vtmoonbooterMy bad just seeing this now, I got the Lupos thinking they would be a good middle ground for both. is there anything specific to look for in aftermarket liners or brands that are more reliable? I don't know much about them at all. thanks for the help!
**This post was edited on Feb 21st 2022 at 3:49:42pm
Hey I believe that the shop sold me with a pair of ft boots that one boot had already been packed out... would it be a good idea to go after some tighter fitting intuition liners to help with the problem?
TreyDudskiHey I believe that the shop sold me with a pair of ft boots that one boot had already been packed out... would it be a good idea to go after some tighter fitting intuition liners to help with the problem?
Perhaps. If you have a 2cm shell fit, are in a narrow/low-ish volume boot, a custom footbed, and you're still maxing out the buckles it could be a couple of things. 1- the liner is super packed out or 2- you simply have a super low volume foot/leg and could benefit from going down a shell size. If you go 2, the boot will fit your rear foot (heel to instep perimeter, instep, ankle, heel) but it will feel too short and the boot-fitter will then need to lengthen the boot about 5mm. Address your low volume foot with the proper instep height and deal with the front after that.
ThaLoraxIntuition is the most common and easiest brand to find aftermarket liners. If you're not doing much hiking/touring, the Power Wrap and Pro Wrap models work well with it, but you could go with the Pro Tongue as well if you prefer a tongue liner. If you want better range of motion for hiking/touring, look at the Pro Tour and the Pro Wrap Tour (I personslly removed the strings on mine). Most of these models come in LV, MV and HV. HV is good if you have skinny feet and need to fill space, and vice versa for LV. It's opposite of how the LV, and HV shells work.
**This post was edited on Feb 21st 2022 at 3:49:42pm
How do you like your tourwraps? Do they take up as much volume as the powerwraps do?
So yes I went to bootfitter. Actually ponied up the money to fly two hours, then take a train for a hour to go see one.
I have very low volume ankles and legs, but a forefoot that does not like LV boots. I sized down from my normal 29.5 to 28.5. I ended up buying an Atomic Hawx Ultra 130 XTD. I'm mostly touring. All 29.5 boots I've bought have not been able to hold my chicken legs in place. The bootfitter made a custom foodbed, we heat molded just the liners, and then he blocked out the toe piece and my sixth toe. After all of that we both agreed that I would ski them for some days and if I needed more blocking I could mail them back and he would block them further if needed.
Well I went on my first tour today and my toes were screaming for mercy. The length wasn't that bad of a problem, but I still wish I had some more room for my big toe. The biggest problem was the forefoot width, all of my toes were either curled up or slammed into each other; or both -- I'm not sure, but it was agonizing. All I know is that there's no way that liner is going to move enough to give me the room my foot needs. I need to get the plastic to move.
Shell check with my barefoot shows 10-15 mm of room behind my heel. I probably should want more for a touring boot, but I really like how this smaller boot fits my leg and ankle. The bootfitter warned me that if I want to block out the toe piece anymore, then I can't use the boots with alpine bindings. Which isn't the end of the world, but I do use these boots at the ski hill when there isn't any soft snow and would prefer to use my skinnier skis with alpine bindings.
I'm assuming that blocking out the forefoot width more shouldn't be a problem. The thing is that there is a shop in my town that has the atomic/salomon memory fit oven, and they know how to heat the shells. But that's where their bootfitting stops -- they have no clue how to block/punch. Also, I was informed that these boots could not be grinded as the plastic is too thin.
So, I could go down to this shop, heat up the shells, and put on a bunch of padding on my toes with a toe cap -- but I was told by the bootfitter that heating my shells will make those punches disappear.
Or I could mail my boots back to the bootfitter and probably not see them for 10 days -- and just hope that they were blocked enough to help out my forefoot. I don't have the funds to fly back down there again.
I think it may be time to retire my liners, as they are probably coming up on 200 ski days and starting to feel packed out. I am a little hesitant because I am in a 2016 Salomon Quest Max 130 which is a notoriously difficult boot to get into, and even after 7 seasons I still battle them every morning despite being totally anal about getting them up to room temp the night before and blasting my boot bag with the foot heaters on the drive. They are a relatively tight shell fit with the heat expanded shells, and I have had one bad experience with an inexperienced shop tech trying to stuff an Intuition liner of too high of volume for the boot (Powerwrap liner in a Scarpa T-Race).
Have there been many big developments in ski boots since 2016 that should make me consider dropping $1k on a totally new boot that may be easier to get on and off and fit just as well? Are heat molded liners still a big thing? That part of my fitting process was a bit of a bear but it resulted in a great fit. Or should I just stick with a liner replacement? Is ZipFit worth the cost over intuition?
Another issue is my distrust of the boot fitters in Bozeman. I just got a set of Boot Doc custom insoles for my Tele boots made by Montana Ski Tuning and Boot Fitting and they did a pretty good job with good attention to detail, but they have only been around for a couple years. I had an absolutely horrible experience trying to get new liners in my old Tele boots from another Bozeman shop that I won't name that just had absolutely no idea what they were doing, minimal familiarity with the intuition product lineup, and apparently minimal knowledge of foot anatomy. My alpine insoles and initial boot fit was done by a truly dedicated bootfitting shop in Denver, the late Lee Kinney of The Custom Foot, and he knew his stuff so well that I am almost considering going back to his shop or Larry's Bootfitting in Boulder to get this work done.
What should I do?
My pinky toes are a little smushed in my newish Cochise 130s that Ive rarely skied in. Just get them punched out a bit or ski them to break them in? We're talking like less than 10 days in them.
DingoSeanHow do you like your tourwraps? Do they take up as much volume as the powerwraps do?
They take up significantly less space than the powerwrap. The powerwrap hates my foot.
DeebieSkeebiesMy pinky toes are a little smushed in my newish Cochise 130s that Ive rarely skied in. Just get them punched out a bit or ski them to break them in? We're talking like less than 10 days in them.
Are you using a proper footbed? Stock liner or aftermarket? Either way, big toe punches are easy.
ThaLoraxThey take up significantly less space than the powerwrap. The powerwrap hates my foot.
Are you using a proper footbed? Stock liner or aftermarket? Either way, big toe punches are easy.
I'm actually up at snowbird skiing in them right now. They're doing pretty well tbh. Have skied a half day and nearly and really do enjoy them so Iam going to swap the footbeds. My old boots have custom ones
Got new intuition wraps for the first time, they fit my left foot great but my right foot is loose. Trying getting them remolded and the problem is still them being too loose. I also think they might the wrong liner for a Cochise 120. I can’t fully close the boot without “pinching” the liner. Shells are 3 years old with ~100 days on them.
Which liner? Come see me in Snowmass if you're around soon.
CLQGot new intuition wraps for the first time, they fit my left foot great but my right foot is loose. Trying getting them remolded and the problem is still them being too loose. I also think they might the wrong liner for a Cochise 120. I can’t fully close the boot without “pinching” the liner. Shells are 3 years old with ~100 days on them.
I'm going to attempt to write a nice tidy little short story here in hopes of finding some help with my current pair(s) of boots.
My feet measure as follows:
Left foot length 264, forefoot width 104, prorated mildly
Right foot length 261, forefoot width 102, neutral
Extremely low volume heel, ankle. Mid to low instep.
Up until two seasons ago I was in a 2015 Salomon Quest Max 120 which I still have and is comfortable overall but I have not ever been able to get decent heel hold in this boot. I took these to a well regarded boot fitter who suggested I not keep putting energy into the Quest Max 120 but rather purchase the Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD 120 in a 26.5. These fit relatively well out of the box though the heel pocket was not very secure. We did some foam work around the ankle and heel pocket and then decided it might be better to go with an aftermarket liner, the Intuition pro tour. This seemed to help initially with some additional foam in the heel/ankle pocket but soon I was dealing with shin bang. We added a higher volume tongue to no avail and I eventually finished the season with the stock liner and less shinbang.
This season i started off using the 26.5 Atomic Hawx Ultra with the stock or Intuition liners and have experimented most recently with the Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD 105 in a 25.5, this is the ladies version of the boot with a lower cuff and narrower last. The boot has some foam around the heel and has been punched out in the forefoot extensively prior to my taking ownership of them. The cuff height and flex seem good (I'm about 5'7" and 145lbs, 171 cm and 65kg) and it eliminated my shinbang issue. Unfortunately this boot is not perfect, I'm experiencing some toe bang as the boot is a little short even after punching and I've recently started having some pain in the soleus area after a couple hours of hard skiing.
So I guess I'm preparing to visit another fitter and am looking for advice on boots, men's or ladies are the lowest volume in the heel, ankle, and lower leg. I know the best method is not to go in to a fitting with a boot in mind but rather to let the fitter make the selection based on my anatomy but I want to make sure I visit a place that carries boots with the highest likelihood of working for me. Most shops seem to carry about three brands. I live in Vancouver and between here and Whistler there are myriad shops carrying all the brands of which I am aware. I've been in 50/50 boots but really just need to find a resort boot I can ski for full days without issues so I'm open to whatever.
I ski full tilt descendant 4s (really soft boot) cause one of my ankles was really bad and in rehab when I first got them 2 years ago. My ankle is pretty much fully healed now and I find the boots too soft for landing big stuff. Can I just buy a stiffer tongue or should I buy new boots.
SchizoSkierI ski full tilt descendant 4s (really soft boot) cause one of my ankles was really bad and in rehab when I first got them 2 years ago. My ankle is pretty much fully healed now and I find the boots too soft for landing big stuff. Can I just buy a stiffer tongue or should I buy new boots.
Yes. Pretty sure this is the one you'd probably want.
I've got a dilemma I'd like to get some advice on. Last year I went and got a brand new older model Fischer RC Pro 130 off sidelineswap and got some basic boot work done to make them skiable. I know fitters are the way to go, but I was dead broke in college and it was a steal so I thought I'd take my chances. I had some grinds done around the inside ankle and the pinky toe, a basic insole upgrade, some stance adjustment, and they ski decently well all things considered. Now I've got a little more income this time around was planning on getting some proper insoles, doing the vacuum fit process, and maybe getting a different liner. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with the vacuum fit process and if it's worth it, as well as will the grinds cause any problems with the molding? Secondly I was wondering if this is too much work to be putting into a boot I did not get fitted, and if I should scrap it and just go get some proper fitted boots. Preferably I'd like to keep costs to a minimum and was just hoping if I could get some insight into this.
Also was wondering if anyone knows a good place in Colorado near the front range that could help me out with either solution.
boogerjohnsonI've got a dilemma I'd like to get some advice on. Last year I went and got a brand new older model Fischer RC Pro 130 off sidelineswap and got some basic boot work done to make them skiable. I know fitters are the way to go, but I was dead broke in college and it was a steal so I thought I'd take my chances. I had some grinds done around the inside ankle and the pinky toe, a basic insole upgrade, some stance adjustment, and they ski decently well all things considered. Now I've got a little more income this time around was planning on getting some proper insoles, doing the vacuum fit process, and maybe getting a different liner. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with the vacuum fit process and if it's worth it, as well as will the grinds cause any problems with the molding? Secondly I was wondering if this is too much work to be putting into a boot I did not get fitted, and if I should scrap it and just go get some proper fitted boots. Preferably I'd like to keep costs to a minimum and was just hoping if I could get some insight into this.
Also was wondering if anyone knows a good place in Colorado near the front range that could help me out with either solution.
Take your boots, footbeds, ski socks to A Racer's Edge in Breckenridge, CO. and ask for Chris. They specialize in fitting race boots, but they (especially Chris) is a freeskier and knows what to do.
onenerdykidDo a shell fit:
1. remove the liner from the shell
2. step into the shell with a very thin ski sock on (or no sock)
3. slide your foot to the front of the shell so your toes just barely touch
4. how much space is behind your heel? 1cm = high performance fit, 2cm = normal, 3cm = boot is too big, start over
If you pass the shell fit stage and don't have a footbed, you will need to get a footbed.
If you've done both of those steps, were your liners heat molded?
I have a question regarding this test. Ill get the technicalities out of the way first:
Boot: 28.5 Roxa r3 120
Liners: 29.5 intuition wrap pros (Used by me for years)
Foot Dim: Left 28, right 28.5, 110mm toe ball last, 65mm heel last
Doing the test using a stick that is 1.5cm, it fits very tightly behind my heel. However the stick also fits loosely to the left and right of my heel.
Not that I have skied this season, but just putting my skis on and jibbing around and what not, the heel lift is fairly prominent.
Is this indicative of needing to size down, or should I just work with my boot fitter and make these boots fit. For reference he had sized me at 28.5, however I could not afford the ones he had (Head Kore 1), so I took a gamble and got what I could afford.
macfiveI have a question regarding this test. Ill get the technicalities out of the way first:
Boot: 28.5 Roxa r3 120
Liners: 29.5 intuition wrap pros (Used by me for years)
Foot Dim: Left 28, right 28.5, 110mm toe ball last, 65mm heel last
Doing the test using a stick that is 1.5cm, it fits very tightly behind my heel. However the stick also fits loosely to the left and right of my heel.
Not that I have skied this season, but just putting my skis on and jibbing around and what not, the heel lift is fairly prominent.
Is this indicative of needing to size down, or should I just work with my boot fitter and make these boots fit. For reference he had sized me at 28.5, however I could not afford the ones he had (Head Kore 1), so I took a gamble and got what I could afford.
Are the Intuition liners you mentioned ones from another boot, or what comes stock in this Roxa?
Oceanic1I’m thinking about buying some Redster Club Sports, but I think 16deg forward lean might be a bit much for me (poor dorsiflexion in one ankle).
Will it negatively affect the ‘feels’ if I remove the forward lean chip altogether and then add the 2nd bolt to the spine of the boot?
Depends on your specific dorsiflexion limitations - too hard to say without being the one who is able to perform the test. What boot are you coming from? That will help put it into perspective.
If you remove the forward lean chip, the cuff will just get pushed into 16° position once you add the screw. Unfortunately going more upright would require a bit of wizardry (but not impossible, just too hard to explain over the interwebz).
onenerdykidDepends on your specific dorsiflexion limitations - too hard to say without being the one who is able to perform the test. What boot are you coming from? That will help put it into perspective.
If you remove the forward lean chip, the cuff will just get pushed into 16° position once you add the screw. Unfortunately going more upright would require a bit of wizardry (but not impossible, just too hard to explain over the interwebz).
Present boots are Hawx Ultra XTDs set at 15 degrees forward lean. I’m using a 3mm heel lift inside them. Bindings are shimmed under toe to have 0 degrees of delta.
I tried skiing the Ultra XTDs at 17 degrees forward lean and got pain in my Achilles. I have been stretching my calf muscles, but only making slow progress.
By ‘wizardry’ I guess you mean flaring the cuffs backwards? Or gas pedalling the toes with a lifter? Or something else?
Oceanic1Present boots are Hawx Ultra XTDs set at 15 degrees forward lean. I’m using a 3mm heel lift inside them. Bindings are shimmed under toe to have 0 degrees of delta.
I tried skiing the Ultra XTDs at 17 degrees forward lean and got pain in my Achilles. I have been stretching my calf muscles, but only making slow progress.
By ‘wizardry’ I guess you mean flaring the cuffs backwards? Or gas pedalling the toes with a lifter? Or something else?
A CS boot with 16° of forward lean could be fine. Unfortunately, measuring forward lean on ski boots is not a standardized thing nor is one family of boot comparable to a different family (like Hawx vs. Redster). It's just not a simple cylinder (like a head tube on a bike) that is cross-comparable. So, it might work for you still.
Re: wizardry - if the cuff moves rearward, you need to fill the gap between the cuff and the shell on the inside. That will be tricky without a proper piece that is made to fit in that gap. Not impossible, but tricky.
Gas pedalling won't really help your dorsiflexion issues as it doesn't change the angle made by your leg & foot. It will stand you more upright, but the leg/foot angle is the same.
Oceanic1Present boots are Hawx Ultra XTDs set at 15 degrees forward lean. I’m using a 3mm heel lift inside them. Bindings are shimmed under toe to have 0 degrees of delta.
I tried skiing the Ultra XTDs at 17 degrees forward lean and got pain in my Achilles. I have been stretching my calf muscles, but only making slow progress.
By ‘wizardry’ I guess you mean flaring the cuffs backwards? Or gas pedalling the toes with a lifter? Or something else?
Sorry for unsolicited advice, but I have been down this path for far to long and would like to share some knowledge. Dorsiflexion is not only in the calf.
So we have a terminology straight, lets refer to this chart. While it does not show it very well, but you tibialis anterior is the main dorsiflexor of the foot. While it does not appear on the graph, The tendon (muscle) starts at the knee and ends at the large toe. Further, it starts from the top of the tibia then goes around the ankle (inward) to the bottom of the foot (arch) connecting to the large toe.
I also have somewhat low dorsiflexion, and have been doing a lot to increase it (it has significantly improved) however I found that no matter how much calf stretching I did, it would not get that much better. Then I realized that dorsiflexion is not fully determined by the calf, rather is determined by both the calf and the shin muscles.
macfiveSorry for unsolicited advice, but I have been down this path for far to long and would like to share some knowledge. Dorsiflexion is not only in the calf.
So we have a terminology straight, lets refer to this chart. While it does not show it very well, but you tibialis anterior is the main dorsiflexor of the foot. While it does not appear on the graph, The tendon (muscle) starts at the knee and ends at the large toe. Further, it starts from the top of the tibia then goes around the ankle (inward) to the bottom of the foot (arch) connecting to the large toe.
I also have somewhat low dorsiflexion, and have been doing a lot to increase it (it has significantly improved) however I found that no matter how much calf stretching I did, it would not get that much better. Then I realized that dorsiflexion is not fully determined by the calf, rather is determined by both the calf and the shin muscles.
macfiveThanks for the reply, the pro wraps are from my old FT descendants, probably have 150 days on them now not sure if they are packed out or not.
No custom foot beds, just a pair of super feet reds.
I would say first, you have a liner that was not lasted nor made for the Roxa shell last. It just doesn't match and this is going to be a major contributing factor for your heel lift. That and it has 150 days on it, which is means it is most likely pretty dead. How does the stock liner feel?
The Superfeet footbeds aren't doing a whole lot for creating the best interface between your foot and the boot. I would definitely recommend getting something more made-for-you.
