The Official: "What is wrong with my boots?" Thread

tomPietrowskiOk well if he is saying that about footbeds I would be a lot more cautious. He said himself one of your feet pronates a lot more so a footbeds is clearly needed to help re-align that foot to a more neutral position.

I have seen this with american fitters before. They can be hesitant to do work like this as it can be considered corrective rather than supportive. It’s a shame as it’s what is really needed.

Hard to say what to advise other then possibly see if you if you can find anyone else to get a second opinion from. Where do you ski? Any shops at the resort?

Southern California. Looks like Mammoth is going to be my best option. 5-6 hour drive unfortunately. So it goes.

CLQI am having pain along the outside of my leg, just above my ankle going up to about the top of my ski boot. I've been wearing these boots for about 10 days now but this pain hasn't appeared before then. I could only "ski" a couple of runs before calling it a day due to the pain. Is this my boot or is it in an injury I sustained while skiing? 2 weekends ago was when I first started noticing the pain but I had crashed a lot that day so I didn't think of it to much. Then last weekend on Saturday I sort of noticed it and then Sunday was the unbearable pain where I couldn't ski. Any thoughts?

I have Techina Cochise 120 and went to a legit bootfitter (Larry's bootfiiting). I just got custom footbeds after the fact which might help but I don't know.

I got a heel lift and did PT. While i still feel it every once and awhile, it is not unbearable pain and I can ski multiple days in a row no problem.

CLQI got a heel lift and did PT. While i still feel it every once and awhile, it is not unbearable pain and I can ski multiple days in a row no problem.

How would you rank the progress in the healing process? It's obviously not gone yet, but is it getting progressively better or does it feel like you've hit a plateau?

onenerdykidHow would you rank the progress in the healing process? It's obviously not gone yet, but is it getting progressively better or does it feel like you've hit a plateau?

The change was exponential at first, literally 1 exercise changed it for me. I could ski no problem instead of having to take a month off after skiing. I felt so much better that I stopped doing it and kind of forgot about it. The only time I have really felt it again was trying to Ollie on a skateboard and the pain came back a little bit. I’ve just started back up foam rolling and the PT, going to try to completely eliminate it.

Went through the full fitting process for new boots and footbeds with a very reputable fitter recently. Overall the boot fits like a firm handshake with snug even contact everywhere and shell fit is about 3/4" behind my heel. Loving the boots so far put a day in and felt a lot of pressure on my arch almost as if it felt like I was standing on a broomstick. I will say I don't normally have a proper insole in my everyday shoes to provide decent arch support but is this a normal feeling with new footbeds?

ec_jibberWent through the full fitting process for new boots and footbeds with a very reputable fitter recently. Overall the boot fits like a firm handshake with snug even contact everywhere and shell fit is about 3/4" behind my heel. Loving the boots so far put a day in and felt a lot of pressure on my arch almost as if it felt like I was standing on a broomstick. I will say I don't normally have a proper insole in my everyday shoes to provide decent arch support but is this a normal feeling with new footbeds?

Yes this is a normal feeling with new footbeds, and it does go away the more you use them. It goes away permanently if you get something (not the same exact footbed) for your every day footwear.

Whelp, I got some intuition powerwraps today for my telemark boots, and I'm worried I'm having some buyers remorse. There aren't too many reputable bootfitters in Bozeman, and was considering going all the way to Jackson to see someone with more experience, but decided against it was I wasn't planning on going the fully custom route for footbeds and was basically looking just for the heat molding. So the guy in Jackson referred me to an under the radar bike shop that also does ski tuning, boot-doc insoles, and liner heat molding in the winter.

Some quick info about the boots, Scarpa T-Race that I bought used last season, same shell size as my alpine boots and very similar shell fit. Had the stock intuition tongue liners which were pretty packed out but felt pretty good on my feet. My alpine boots are Solomon quest max 130 with heat molded shells, the stock tongue liners, booster straps, and fully custom footbeds that I have put 4 hard seasons on now. Still in great shape and not feeling too packed out yet.

Anyways, we had some issues during the molding process. First, because the powerwrap is a much higher volume than a tongue liner, the top two buckles are on the outermost position and I don't really have much room to adjust these and the shape of the shell just doesn't seem to want to play nice with the shape of the liners. They felt pretty good when they were fresh out of the oven, but now that they have cooled down they just feel too tight and I can't find the right tightness in the buckles. The other issue was on one of the liners, the first time we got it in the boot, it got misaligned and there was a big crease in it, like the heel got shifted all the way to the side of my ankle. We got that fixed though.

So now the idea I'm tossing around is putting the powerwrap liners in the alpine boots. I put the Salomon liners in the Scarpa shells, and comparing them to the original there seems to be a little less volume in the toes of the Salomon's, but when I tighten down the buckles I cant feel any movement or excess space. There are some tight spots but I am hoping these will come out when they are reheated. The added benefit of this setup is that I have my nicer footbeds in the boots I use for touring, and I've heard that tongue liners are also better suited for touring.
The issue with this is that the tongue volume of the powerwrap is still so high that the ankle fit is just kinda weird, but it's less of an issue since the Salomon boots are only three buckle which seems to suit this better. The other problem is that these boots are a fucking bitch to get on in the first place even with the stock liners. My friends have had similar issues with the quest boots and the powerwrap magnifies this problem even in the warmth of my home.

The shop I got the powerwraps from does offer free re-heating and modification, so I think I may go back in to get the powerwraps heated for my alpine boots, and the salomon liners heated for my tele boots. Is there any way to shave down the thickness or deliberately pack down the tongue of the powerwrap during the heating process?

And on the topic of the boot-doc footbeds, I do like that they are offered in three different arch sizes, and I liked the simple heat molding process. They feel pretty similar compared to my fully custom footbeds, but I have "Pretty generic feet" according to my trusted bootfitter, and I will get a better idea of how they feel once I am on snow.

No.QuarterSo now the idea I'm tossing around is putting the powerwrap liners in the alpine boots. I put the Salomon liners in the Scarpa shells, and comparing them to the original there seems to be a little less volume in the toes of the Salomon's, but when I tighten down the buckles I cant feel any movement or excess space. There are some tight spots but I am hoping these will come out when they are reheated. The added benefit of this setup is that I have my nicer footbeds in the boots I use for touring, and I've heard that tongue liners are also better suited for touring.
The issue with this is that the tongue volume of the powerwrap is still so high that the ankle fit is just kinda weird, but it's less of an issue since the Salomon boots are only three buckle which seems to suit this better. The other problem is that these boots are a fucking bitch to get on in the first place even with the stock liners. My friends have had similar issues with the quest boots and the powerwrap magnifies this problem even in the warmth of my home.

The shop I got the powerwraps from does offer free re-heating and modification, so I think I may go back in to get the powerwraps heated for my alpine boots, and the salomon liners heated for my tele boots. Is there any way to shave down the thickness or deliberately pack down the tongue of the powerwrap during the heating process?

Aftermarket liners are (in my opinion) a bit of a gamble because the liner company simply can't make the liner according to every available shell shape in that size and it therefore doesn't fit as needed in available space as good as it should. It's just a mechanical fact that works against them. For this reason, Scarpa normally sells their specific Intuition liners aftermarket for their boots. This is a bit hindsight (and probably not helpful to you now, sorry), but perhaps this might have been the better way to go just so the liner thickness/height/geometry/etc. is right for the intended T-Race shell.

If the Salomon liner feels better, feel free to go with that. But, just be aware that you might get some weird crimping of the toe box of the liner, where the bellow area of the shell is.

The Salomon Quest Max shell is very low volume, especially over the instep (which is why they are a bit of a pain to get on and off). I fear that if you put this super thick PowerWrap liner in that shell, that 1. the fit will be very different (tighter & lower volume) and 2. the boots will be even harder to put on and take off. The way to make the liners thinner is to over-buckle the liner during the heat molding process to compress the EVA foams. But, this has its related trade-offs too, namely sacrificing a bit of cushioning and warmth.

I've got a question regarding boot shell sizes.
I'm looking at the Scarpa Maelstrale RS boots, do the 31.5 and 32 have the same shell size? Also, how do these compare to the Technica Zero G as far as relative length and width?

Cheers

onenerdykidAftermarket liners are (in my opinion) a bit of a gamble because the liner company simply can't make the liner according to every available shell shape in that size and it therefore doesn't fit as needed in available space as good as it should. It's just a mechanical fact that works against them. For this reason, Scarpa normally sells their specific Intuition liners aftermarket for their boots. This is a bit hindsight (and probably not helpful to you now, sorry), but perhaps this might have been the better way to go just so the liner thickness/height/geometry/etc. is right for the intended T-Race shell.

If the Salomon liner feels better, feel free to go with that. But, just be aware that you might get some weird crimping of the toe box of the liner, where the bellow area of the shell is.

The Salomon Quest Max shell is very low volume, especially over the instep (which is why they are a bit of a pain to get on and off). I fear that if you put this super thick PowerWrap liner in that shell, that 1. the fit will be very different (tighter & lower volume) and 2. the boots will be even harder to put on and take off. The way to make the liners thinner is to over-buckle the liner during the heat molding process to compress the EVA foams. But, this has its related trade-offs too, namely sacrificing a bit of cushioning and warmth.

So basically what you're saying is I'm fucked?
I think I'm going to try to see if I can get an exchange or maybe like a partial refund and get a tongue liner.

No.QuarterSo basically what you're saying is I'm fucked?
I think I'm going to try to see if I can get an exchange or maybe like a partial refund and get a tongue liner.

See what is possible, but at the very least it sounds like your Salomon liner could work in both boots. Just pay attention to the area of the liner where the boot bellows.

onenerdykidSee what is possible, but at the very least it sounds like your Salomon liner could work in both boots. Just pay attention to the area of the liner where the boot bellows.

Playing around with the Salomon liner in the tele boot did reveal that the bellows area will be an issue and I should just keep them in their intended boots. Don't want to fuck with the perfect fit of those boots.

So a weird thing about my Scarpa boots, they don't have a mondo size anywhere on the boot. The only size indication is an 8 near the midway line of the sole, and 8 is molded into the inside of the shell, and 7/8 is marked on the upper parts of the shell. So referencing this to the current T1 which appears to be the same mold, this would indicate that they are a 26. This makes sense because the shell fit of the Scarpa is about one finger while the Salomon (27/27.5 shell) is about two fingers. The odd thing about this is that the original Scarpa liner is marked 270.

So I want to be armed with some information before I go back to the shop and see if I can get some sort of exchange deal and get the exact liners I want on order. I am thinking I should go with the Pro Tour in the low volume. Should I go with a 27 because that is the liner size that was in before and it will mold down if it is a bit too long, or should I follow the size chart and get a 26? I contacted Scarpa about what they think I should do the other day but they haven't got back to me, I will contact intuition to see what they think as well.

No.QuarterSo a weird thing about my Scarpa boots, they don't have a mondo size anywhere on the boot. The only size indication is an 8 near the midway line of the sole, and 8 is molded into the inside of the shell, and 7/8 is marked on the upper parts of the shell. So referencing this to the current T1 which appears to be the same mold, this would indicate that they are a 26. This makes sense because the shell fit of the Scarpa is about one finger while the Salomon (27/27.5 shell) is about two fingers. The odd thing about this is that the original Scarpa liner is marked 270.

So I want to be armed with some information before I go back to the shop and see if I can get some sort of exchange deal and get the exact liners I want on order. I am thinking I should go with the Pro Tour in the low volume. Should I go with a 27 because that is the liner size that was in before and it will mold down if it is a bit too long, or should I follow the size chart and get a 26? I contacted Scarpa about what they think I should do the other day but they haven't got back to me, I will contact intuition to see what they think as well.

Scarpa is the only brand (to my knowledge) that has an irregular naming to their mold sizes. Normally (i.e. every other boot brand in existence) size 26 & 26.5 share the same shell mold & last, but with Scarpa they label their molds as 25.5/26.0 and 26.5/27.0 - but the .5 size is the actual shell. Almost every shop buys the .5 size because it aligns with shell fits and every other boot brand.

So if you have a 27.0 liner, that is not a "true" 27- it is made for a "true" 26.5 shell and that's why you have a 1-finger fit in the Scarpa boot. If you get a 26.5 liner, it might feel little snugger out of the box because they last it a little differently, but once you heat mold it, it will be the same shape as the shell last and your foot (therefore no difference). If you get a 26.0 boot, that is based on a 25.5 shell mold, so don't do that.

If you want the same size Intuition liner as your Scarpa, the best thing would be to compare the external length of your liner to one of the aftermarket Intutions and see how that feels in comparison to your liner.


TL/DR - when buying Scarpa products, ignore the .0 size and buy the 0.5 size. Match the length of a new liner to your old liner.

onenerdykidIf you want the same size Intuition liner as your Scarpa, the best thing would be to compare the external length of your liner to one of the aftermarket Intutions and see how that feels in comparison to your liner.


TL/DR - when buying Scarpa products, ignore the .0 size and buy the 0.5 size. Match the length of a new liner to your old liner.

Thank you so much for all of your help, you've been great. I haven't been able to get a response from either intuition or scarpa yet on this problem. I do think that the shell is the 25.5/26 based on the current T1 which is the same mold, but then I get so hung up on the original liner being marked 270

I will likely have to order the correct size Intuition liner through this shop, he doesn't keep the tongue models in stock so I cant really compare a 26 and 27 to the original liners. When the powerwraps were molded it was such a bitch to get them into the boot, especially to get the heel of the liner into place, partially due to the higher volume but I also suspect due to a longer length, even though they were hot and malleable out of the oven. He did compare the new to the original and I thought they seemed a little longer, but said they would squish down to the correct size. So what i'm wondering is what the actual length difference between a 26 and 27 is, and if it would be better practice to go with a 27 and have it squish down a little to the proper length, or a 26 and possibly have a tiny amount of room in the toe. My thinking would be to go with the latter in a tele boot to allow for the bellows to flex properly (although as far as flexing the foam goes the difference is probably very small). While in an alpine boot it might be better to go with the former mindset to take up as much space in the toe.

Hi so I bought the dalbello krypon 110 id and they fit awesome but i had intuition power wrap liners that i had from my old boots and they are much higher in volume than the ones that came with the boot. My first day skiing in them yesterday felt great the first couple runs, felt very in control and tight but they did not hurt. Then both of my feet went completely numb. Is it due to the higher volume by the thicker intuition liners and if so should i use the intuition liners that came with my boot to stop my feet from going numb due to allowing a little bit more room?

Hello my problem is the arch of left foot hurts when I ski in my backyard. I have 18/19 Ft dropkicks. It starts to hurt when I am hiking back up the hill. And when I take them off the muscle in my arch is really tight. I bought the boots new and had the liners molded to my foot. Does anyone else get this problem?

cpohlHi so I bought the dalbello krypon 110 id and they fit awesome but i had intuition power wrap liners that i had from my old boots and they are much higher in volume than the ones that came with the boot. My first day skiing in them yesterday felt great the first couple runs, felt very in control and tight but they did not hurt. Then both of my feet went completely numb. Is it due to the higher volume by the thicker intuition liners and if so should i use the intuition liners that came with my boot to stop my feet from going numb due to allowing a little bit more room?

Are you using footbeds?
Did you get the liners heatmolded?

Answering no to both or either can lead to the discomfort you are experiencing...

CountryBoy123Hello my problem is the arch of left foot hurts when I ski in my backyard. I have 18/19 Ft dropkicks. It starts to hurt when I am hiking back up the hill. And when I take them off the muscle in my arch is really tight. I bought the boots new and had the liners molded to my foot. Does anyone else get this problem?

Sounds like you aren't using footbeds?

If not, you need to get footbeds.

They were heatmolded but for a boot with 102 last instead of the 98mm last in the krypton so i am worried that they are not packed out due to them not being very tight around my foot but when i try on the new liners unmolded they dont feel nearly as tight. I dont have custom footbeds and i am willing to go drive the 1 hour 30 to go get sidas custom footbeds if they are worth it because i have heard very highly of them. So would it be worth it to remold my old liners or just say screw it and mold my new liners and go spend a large amount of money on footbeds which i have never had.

cpohlSo would it be worth it to remold my old liners or just say screw it and mold my new liners and go spend a large amount of money on footbeds which i have never had.

If you don't get proper footbeds, your ski boot does not function as intended and skiing without them is honestly a waste of money spent on nice boots.

Take your new boots, new liners, and old liners with you when you get the footbeds made for you and discuss the fitting options with the boot-fitter. From there you will be in good shape.

Update:
Was able to get the power-wrap swapped out for a pro tour in a size down. Works so much better and I'm fucking stoked for opening weekend

No.QuarterUpdate:
Was able to get the power-wrap swapped out for a pro tour in a size down. Works so much better and I'm fucking stoked for opening weekend

Nice!

looking for recommendations on the lowest volume 50/50 boot. I have been to a fitter and I’m still struggling to find a boot that I’m in love with. I currently ski in a set of old kryptons with some intuition liners that have been made to fit my foot extremely well. the Cochise 120 was close but it was still too high volume over the instep and through the heel and I was having issues around the 6th toe area due to a bit of a bone spur. Does anyone have a recommendation of a really low volume boot that still skis well?


yes I have footbeds and have talked to a couple fitters but each shop has a limit of what they sell so I have come for help.

a quick list of boots I have tried with a fitter for reference:
lupo 120 ax
lupo 130carbon
technica Cochise 120 (these were the closest in my opinion)
atomic ultra hawx xtd130 (fit was goodish but there were a number of pressure points)
rossignol alltrack pros

any recommendations help, and I’m willing to visit other fitters in the area if there is a specific boot to be tried.

thanks

soupcanlooking for recommendations on the lowest volume 50/50 boot. I have been to a fitter and I’m still struggling to find a boot that I’m in love with. I currently ski in a set of old kryptons with some intuition liners that have been made to fit my foot extremely well. the Cochise 120 was close but it was still too high volume over the instep and through the heel and I was having issues around the 6th toe area due to a bit of a bone spur. Does anyone have a recommendation of a really low volume boot that still skis well?


yes I have footbeds and have talked to a couple fitters but each shop has a limit of what they sell so I have come for help.

a quick list of boots I have tried with a fitter for reference:
lupo 120 ax
lupo 130carbon
technica Cochise 120 (these were the closest in my opinion)
atomic ultra hawx xtd130 (fit was goodish but there were a number of pressure points)
rossignol alltrack pros

any recommendations help, and I’m willing to visit other fitters in the area if there is a specific boot to be tried.

thanks

The Hawx Ultra XTD 130 has a heat moldable shell and a heat moldable liner. Any decent boot-fitter can turn that "goodish" fit into an awesome fit really easily.

onenerdykidThe Hawx Ultra XTD 130 has a heat moldable shell and a heat moldable liner. Any decent boot-fitter can turn that "goodish" fit into an awesome fit really easily.

Correct me if I’m wrong here but the 130 received a beefed up liner this year to make it ski a bit better all around? I think I recall that the initial release of the 130 it came with a pretty light liner which toured great but wasn’t ideal for resort action.

soupcanCorrect me if I’m wrong here but the 130 received a beefed up liner this year to make it ski a bit better all around? I think I recall that the initial release of the 130 it came with a pretty light liner which toured great but wasn’t ideal for resort action.

That's true! The 130 comes with a beefed up liner, but it is still more optimized for touring vs. the liner that comes in the 120. It's a really big step forward for the 130 and it's a great do-it-all version. But, if you are looking to have a 1:1 alpine fit & feel, then the 120 liner is built just like an alpine liner, but with a flex zone.

Anyone else have trouble balancing the clamping force of the top two buckles and strap with their 4 buckle boots?
I always end up with one buckle loose and chasing my tail trying to get the right balance. I kinda just want to remove the top buckle and replace the stock velcro strap with a Booster a little lower than the stock strap or where the top buckle was. Thoughts?

onenerdykidThat's true! The 130 comes with a beefed up liner, but it is still more optimized for touring vs. the liner that comes in the 120. It's a really big step forward for the 130 and it's a great do-it-all version. But, if you are looking to have a 1:1 alpine fit & feel, then the 120 liner is built just like an alpine liner, but with a flex zone.

Ended up in a set of the 120’s. Test driving them tomorrow,in the shop they feel excellent though really excited to see how they preform tomorrow inbounds

Been trying to figure this one out. I just got the Scarpa Maestrale RS in a slightly larger size than my downhill oriented boots (Lange XT free tour). I have a low volume, narrow foot and don't think I have a high instep.
The problem are very uncomfortable pressure points on my instep. The liner's tongue separates there which also lines up with the black lower shell tongue (if that makes sense) so not sure if thats related.
Whats your go to fixes for problems here? Ever hear of this being caused by the liner?

postal_slimeBeen trying to figure this one out. I just got the Scarpa Maestrale RS in a slightly larger size than my downhill oriented boots (Lange XT free tour). I have a low volume, narrow foot and don't think I have a high instep.
The problem are very uncomfortable pressure points on my instep. The liner's tongue separates there which also lines up with the black lower shell tongue (if that makes sense) so not sure if thats related.
Whats your go to fixes for problems here? Ever hear of this being caused by the liner?

What's your footbed and liner heatmolding situation?

i keep having a weird pressure point sometimes on the top of my foot like at the bottom of the tongue of my liner, i think my shell sometimes doesnt properlly "wrap around" and it you gotta be careful when you buckle them or else you'll have to adjust them througout the day until you get it right. Im in Technica Mach1 MV 130s 25.5 w/ boot doctor footbeds and a little work done on my left liner to help my bad foot (my left foots a little smaller than my right now). Other than that, the boots are insanely solid.

onenerdykidWhat's your footbed and liner heatmolding situation?

Superfeet from a boot fitter, no heat work done.
Always been a fan of naturally breaking them in then going after problems. They're pretty broken in by now and since I'm on the low volume side in a boot that is rather high volume, I also thought doing anything to the liners at the beginning may put me at a disadvantage later.
Boots feel great everywhere else except on that instep.

postal_slimeSuperfeet from a boot fitter, no heat work done.
Always been a fan of naturally breaking them in then going after problems. They're pretty broken in by now and since I'm on the low volume side in a boot that is rather high volume, I also thought doing anything to the liners at the beginning may put me at a disadvantage later.
Boots feel great everywhere else except on that instep.

It's definitely a myth that heat molding a liner causes it to prematurely breakdown and put you at a disadvantage. Your boots come with an Intuition liner, right? These liners are purposefully meant to be heat molded and have very dense EVA foam in them and if it doesn't line up with your foot & shell, you will get pressure points. However, they will feel much more uniform once molded.

They can also be molded with a pad on your instep to give you extra room there (if that is what is causing your pain).

onenerdykidIt's definitely a myth that heat molding a liner causes it to prematurely breakdown and put you at a disadvantage. Your boots come with an Intuition liner, right? These liners are purposefully meant to be heat molded and have very dense EVA foam in them and if it doesn't line up with your foot & shell, you will get pressure points. However, they will feel much more uniform once molded.

They can also be molded with a pad on your instep to give you extra room there (if that is what is causing your pain).

Thank you, I'll give it a shot with a boot fitter.

No.QuarterAnyone else have trouble balancing the clamping force of the top two buckles and strap with their 4 buckle boots?
I always end up with one buckle loose and chasing my tail trying to get the right balance. I kinda just want to remove the top buckle and replace the stock velcro strap with a Booster a little lower than the stock strap or where the top buckle was. Thoughts?

I have those Pinnacle 130 K2s from a couple years ago that are kinda like what you are describing. They have 3 buckles and then this big strap deal. The strap clamps down tight with a ski buckle type thing. Anyways you can still end up with the same situation where the strap is tight and the top buckle is loose etc
I think I prefer the traditional 4 buckle design to be honest

thank you onenerdykid for all your hard work and amazing advice ! Question from me: When I was sin Chamonix last time I wanted to buy new boots. I went to two reputable shops. I got fantastic service but despite me asking to try one Atomic XTD 120, i was told the boot is not for my kind of foot- norma wide last 100mm. When i spend money on a ski boot i want the highest quality and one of my primary choices was Atomic. I ended up with dalbello lupo ax 120 with custom liner (sidas crt) and footbed. later i found out dalbello uses IRFRAN plastic to make their boots. it is apparently inferior, cheap plastic? not sure if it is true. does the use of plastic depends on boot construction /desig i.e overlap- grilamid, three piece shell-Irfran? Can you comment what tech Atomic uses and why not Grilamid? thank you.

Should I inquire with the guy I got fitted by about new liners possibly? The liner in my left boot doesnt give me issues skiing but the instep process is kind of a hassle. The mesh-like fabric keeps getting like dragged down by my heel as I go to put my boot on and It feels like the fabrics have separated from the liner itself/feels loose. I gotta wedge my hand in between my heel/foot and the liner so that i dont smush the liner in a weird way as I put my boot on. Kind of annoying.

SheikhAukthank you onenerdykid for all your hard work and amazing advice ! Question from me: When I was sin Chamonix last time I wanted to buy new boots. I went to two reputable shops. I got fantastic service but despite me asking to try one Atomic XTD 120, i was told the boot is not for my kind of foot- norma wide last 100mm. When i spend money on a ski boot i want the highest quality and one of my primary choices was Atomic. I ended up with dalbello lupo ax 120 with custom liner (sidas crt) and footbed. later i found out dalbello uses IRFRAN plastic to make their boots. it is apparently inferior, cheap plastic? not sure if it is true. does the use of plastic depends on boot construction /desig i.e overlap- grilamid, three piece shell-Irfran? Can you comment what tech Atomic uses and why not Grilamid? thank you.

Thanks for the kind words :)

First, it's definitely possible to widen a Hawx Ultra XTD by almost a full 10mm, so depending on your actual foot and its actual "high-volumeness" it should be quite possible to fit a medium volume foot into that boot.

Second, I don't want to throw any hate towards Dalbello, but Irfran plastic is a type of polypropylene, so it is a cheaper type of plastic. It was probably selected because of it's light weight properties (and it's cost effectiveness too) but it comes at the cost of durability- this plastic is not as durable as PA (i.e. Grilamid) or PU. It might ski well in a 3-piece design, but you should keep an eye on shell wear and tear.

We definitely use Grilamid in our boots- there are multiple versions of Grilamid (it's a range of plastics from EMS Grivory in Switzerland) and the ones we use we like very much. The Hawx Ultra XTD 130, 120, and 115W use Grilamid and so does our forthcoming boot, the Hawx Prime XTD 130 and 115W.

If you want to hear more about the general differences in plastics, you should check out this podcast I did with Blister Gear Review:
https://blisterreview.com/gear-101/a-very-deep-dive-on-ski-boots-part-1-plastics-ep-54

DeebieSkeebiesShould I inquire with the guy I got fitted by about new liners possibly? The liner in my left boot doesnt give me issues skiing but the instep process is kind of a hassle. The mesh-like fabric keeps getting like dragged down by my heel as I go to put my boot on and It feels like the fabrics have separated from the liner itself/feels loose. I gotta wedge my hand in between my heel/foot and the liner so that i dont smush the liner in a weird way as I put my boot on. Kind of annoying.

If the layers have separated, it might be a warranty issue. Definitely talk with your boot-fitter about it and see what they can do for you.

Update on my liner problems.
The old liners ski better than the new Intuition Pro Tours. I should have just called it good with a booster strap and new footbeds and put that $200 toward a new NTN boot.
Even worse is the guilt of dropping the money on new liners and them being fucking useless and knowing I wont be able to sell them and they will likely just end up in the trash. It's kind of ridiculous that there aren't any bootfitters in Bozeman with the level of experience that I got when I was fitted for my alpine boots in Denver. There is one shop that shows some expertise in boots so I may go to them to see if they can help me out and fix the new liners.
I've been avoiding skiing telemark because it is so ridiculously painful. I can't find the right tension for the buckles to balance security without pain. The forward lean is way more agressive so much so that it's uncomfortable to stand up normally, I pretty much have to always be in a lunge. And I can crank down the buckles so much that my feet are pulsating and the shell plastic is starting to overlap and wrinkle but still have heel lift.
The only silver lining is that the new footbeds I got (semi custom Boot Doctor) take up a little more space in the original liners than the Superfeet ones that were in them and reduced the volume just a little bit so the original liners feel a little more secure. And I got Booster straps so that's a major improvement as well

I guess the moral of the story is:
a) Don't change more than one variable at once. Meaning I should have tried Booster straps, then footbeds, befor committing to new liners
b) If you get the feeling that someone is inexperienced in ski boot fitting, bail before you drop $200

onenerdykidIf you don't get proper footbeds, your ski boot does not function as intended and skiing without them is honestly a waste of money spent on nice boots.

Take your new boots, new liners, and old liners with you when you get the footbeds made for you and discuss the fitting options with the boot-fitter. From there you will be in good shape.

Hey man thanks for your help went to the bootfitter and got custom footbeds and molded the new liners. I have to say it is very weird having a boot fit so tight and not hurt thanks for all the help mman

cpohlHey man thanks for your help went to the bootfitter and got custom footbeds and molded the new liners. I have to say it is very weird having a boot fit so tight and not hurt thanks for all the help mman

Glad to hear it worked out!

onenerdykidIf the layers have separated, it might be a warranty issue. Definitely talk with your boot-fitter about it and see what they can do for you.

I discovered that the liner itself has actually tore and will probably inquire about a warranty now. Kinda bummed but whatever. Shit happens.

Hey guys, so I have about 20 ish days in my ultra xtds now and about 15 of them were with my power wrap liners. I gotta say these things are phenomenal in comfort and ride quality. Extremely responsive for their weight and still have more than enough gumption to drive big heavy skis in less than ideal conditions.


my one gripe is that my toes FREEZE in them, to the point that it hurts once I take them off. I think this is due to downward pressure on my toes so my question is how much give do they have upwards in the toe box and can I spot heat the toes only cause the rest of the boot is beyond perfect.

thanks in advance!

After a while of wearing the boots, my circulation starts getting cut off at the seam in the liner. I dont think its an issue with tightness because my left boot is fine. Are the boots too big or is there a way to fix it?

soupcanHey guys, so I have about 20 ish days in my ultra xtds now and about 15 of them were with my power wrap liners. I gotta say these things are phenomenal in comfort and ride quality. Extremely responsive for their weight and still have more than enough gumption to drive big heavy skis in less than ideal conditions.


my one gripe is that my toes FREEZE in them, to the point that it hurts once I take them off. I think this is due to downward pressure on my toes so my question is how much give do they have upwards in the toe box and can I spot heat the toes only cause the rest of the boot is beyond perfect.

thanks in advance!

Glad you are digging the boots! If your Intuition liner is taking up too much space in the toe box, it will act like a heat sink and pull heat away from your toes.

But for sure a boot-fitter can spot heat the area(s) you need and make more space in the toe box. Once that is made, then you will have free space that will allow better blood circulation and more air space to keep you warm.

onenerdykidGlad you are digging the boots! If your Intuition liner is taking up too much space in the toe box, it will act like a heat sink and pull heat away from your toes.

But for sure a boot-fitter can spot heat the area(s) you need and make more space in the toe box. Once that is made, then you will have free space that will allow better blood circulation and more air space to keep you warm.

Did some testing, it seems that this happens specifically when I’m using my dissent lab socks which have a lot of compression vs my bridgedale and other socks. It still occurs slightly but it is a 10th as bad. Any comments on the dissent lab socks? Maybe too much compression and padding?

soupcanDid some testing, it seems that this happens specifically when I’m using my dissent lab socks which have a lot of compression vs my bridgedale and other socks. It still occurs slightly but it is a 10th as bad. Any comments on the dissent lab socks? Maybe too much compression and padding?

I usually suffer from cold feet and the best thing that I have found is to use ultra-thin merino wool socks. No padded toes, just a thin sock that will help wick moisture away and keep as much air space around your foot as possible.

So I spent literal hours trying on boots and although it may seem like it, I wasn't brand shopping or anything when I bought my boots. I have the 2020 Full Tilt classics and after trying on all the boots you could imagine that fit my foot, these were the ones that the boot fitter and I decided on. Anyways, my first day skiing with them, I skied for about four hours with the common new-boot-pain. Now my left foot had always been a little bigger than my right foot so I was feeling some pretty bad pain in my left big toe, so when we stopped skiing to get lunch, I took my boot and sock off because of the tremendous pain in my toe. My entire toenail was black and the tip of my toe was super bruised. I checked my right toe and it was completely fine. I skied the rest of the day and have gone back up to the mountain many more times this season but my toenail is slowly beginning to fall off and that's just causing more and more pain. I don't know if it's a problem with my skiing or my boots but this didn't happen with my last pair at all.
Thanks.

JaxnsonSo I spent literal hours trying on boots and although it may seem like it, I wasn't brand shopping or anything when I bought my boots. I have the 2020 Full Tilt classics and after trying on all the boots you could imagine that fit my foot, these were the ones that the boot fitter and I decided on. Anyways, my first day skiing with them, I skied for about four hours with the common new-boot-pain. Now my left foot had always been a little bigger than my right foot so I was feeling some pretty bad pain in my left big toe, so when we stopped skiing to get lunch, I took my boot and sock off because of the tremendous pain in my toe. My entire toenail was black and the tip of my toe was super bruised. I checked my right toe and it was completely fine. I skied the rest of the day and have gone back up to the mountain many more times this season but my toenail is slowly beginning to fall off and that's just causing more and more pain. I don't know if it's a problem with my skiing or my boots but this didn't happen with my last pair at all.
Thanks.

Do you have footbeds? If not it can cause the foot to extend on landings etc and smash the front. If you do have footbeds take them to your fitter. Like you said one foot is bigger and they can punch out a little space most likely.

Could one feasibly cut open the back left part of a boot including the plastic to provide relief for a heel spur without seriously compromising the boots function? Saw this article about a nordic skier who cut out a ton of a boot to deal with haglunds, but then her plantar fasciitis came back. I dont want to cut out that much, just a small chunk on the back right left part of the left boot.