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Drone strike

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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,027
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/12/13/world/middleeast/drone-strike-in-yemen-hits-wedding-convoy-killing-11.html

I was reading the news and what do ya know? Another drone strike on foreign land. When the laws about flying drones over our own land is still in debate. Plus, the article points out that most of the peolple "appear" to be militants. And that the militants are attacking in response to drone attacks. Our drone attacks are because of their attacks. How is that supposed to end? Could you imagine being on the way to a wedding and since there are a few bad people around you your limo gets blown up. In america a women would cry if it rains on her wedding day. There, bombs get dropped from remote control airplanes drop bombs on the wedding party. The article doesn't even point out the amount of people injured. You can't kill some without hurting a lot of them in the vehicles. I guess I just wanted to spread the word. Most of America is blind to what is really going on. It is not anti-American to admit there is fuckery afoot.

Tl; dr don't even worry abouyt it, much easier to pretend it is not happening
Dec 13 2013 10:21AM
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coling
Posts: 1086 - Karma: -3
Thanks obama!
Dec 13 2013 10:24AM
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SFB
Posts: 8895 - Karma: 26,358
whatever drones are cool
Dec 13 2013 10:35AM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,027
Obama would not report about drone strikes.
Dec 13 2013 10:38AM
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howlongcanausern
Posts: 4982 - Karma: 1,737
this country needs more brave patriots like you, OP.

thank you.
Dec 13 2013 10:40AM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 37816 - Karma: 125,772
Thanks Obama
Dec 13 2013 10:43AM
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papermache
Posts: 1097 - Karma: 616
i agree its wack. 98% of drone casualties are civilians. its not about fighting terror, its about empire building.
Dec 13 2013 10:58AM
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Benson.
Posts: 2739 - Karma: 3,787
I picture a drone pilot as a fat WoW player sitting in a dark room in some airforce base with a family size bag of Doritos, just tapping on a touch screen to deploy missiles. And his buddies come over and he's like, "hey, watch this. *touches screen* pew! Pew! Pew! Haha, I have a 200 kill streak going right now!"
Dec 13 2013 11:26AM
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Benson.
Posts: 2739 - Karma: 3,787
So in other words, I am in full support of this. 'Murica
Dec 13 2013 11:27AM
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Wallisch_pl
Posts: 5260 - Karma: 1,022
So no you're talking shit about people who risk their lives to defend yours? Piece of shit...
Dec 13 2013 11:28AM
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NBCskier
Posts: 3877 - Karma: -289
Don't chill with terrorists and you won't get dueced by a drone.
Dec 13 2013 11:28AM
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kevinegan
Posts: 117 - Karma: 120
I love America and I feel blessed to be born here and have the advantages of being born an American, but we are totally fucked. Whoever says America is the greatest country is just being ignorant we have nearly run the country into the ground
Dec 13 2013 11:35AM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,027
I wouldn't say that. The point is spot on. Whether or not it is doritos, they are as disconnected from their actions as humanly possible. We need to rethink, who is the real piece of shit here? The guy pushing the button, the guys making the decision, or the people who know it is happening but ignore it?
Dec 13 2013 11:35AM
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Benson.
Posts: 2739 - Karma: 3,787
gr8 b8 m8
Dec 13 2013 11:35AM
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Jeebus.
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 5,823
True that, he's way too much of a weasel for that, but knowing Obama the truth would leak a few months after fact.
Dec 13 2013 11:43AM
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Benson.
Posts: 2739 - Karma: 3,787
That whole post was a joke, (even though I don't condone our drone policy), and that guy is just a terrible troll, disregard.
Dec 13 2013 11:59AM
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papermache
Posts: 1097 - Karma: 616
a guy sitting in front of a computer in nevada, controlling a drone half-way across the world is risking his life? please explain.
Dec 13 2013 12:33PM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,027
I gave the troll what he wanted as well and answered him. The trolls rarely come back to answer the follow-up questions.
Dec 13 2013 7:05PM
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sherwood4099
Posts: 1173 - Karma: 22
Source? I'm pretty sure you just made up that stat.. We have killed 100s of high ranking Al Queda, AQAP, IMU, Taliban/ Paki Tailban, Haqqani Etc commanders and lieutenants with drone strikes. They fire low yeild hellfires that are damn accurate and the target identification process is super regulated up the chain of command. The only collateral damage is people who are within 100ish yards of really bad dudes (friend, relatives and other terrorists) that's acceptable collateral damage in a fucking war. Think about how these people see collateral damage. They intentionally kill innocent people. IMO they are responsible for the death of people around them. They activly engage in terrorism. Know the risks and deserve the outcome. They knowingly bring that risk around their friends and relatives. Serriously. Let's have a source on your info
Dec 13 2013 9:17PM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,027
You believe the news too much. Civilian lives at collateral damage? really? kids and women who have nothing to do with it are ok as long as they are near the "terrorist". hmmmmmm
Dec 13 2013 9:24PM
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sherwood4099
Posts: 1173 - Karma: 22
I believe the news to much? Where do you get your information? Personal experience? If reading the news from both a pro and anti- drone perspective ie. Al Jazeera/ Al Arabia vs Long War Journal, Fox etc isn't as decent a perspective as you can get then what is? I understand we can't really know much more then what's reported but if your not reading one side of the perspective only then what essential source are you missing. Do you really think left wing / middle eastern news sources report drone strikes in a positive light?? No they highlight the civlian casualties and discount their effectiveness. So what source exactly is it that you get your information from that isn't the news. Or do you just guess because I'm assuming your not living in place where drone strikes are common place.

And yes collateral damage it means unintended casualties that are a 100% guarentee in any war. Again I blame the people who commit or act in a command compacity in terror attacks or war against US troops and then like cowards hide amongst their families and friends knowing that they are targets.

Finally, what does "terrorists" mean? These people target civlian targets and innocent people they are by definition terrorists. Unless they are attacking military targets in which case they are insurgents unless they are fighting under a countries flag in uniform.

again. I'd love to see a source that 98% of drone casualties are innocent people. You won't find one because it's bullshit that someone made up and posted
Dec 13 2013 9:42PM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,027
I did not post that 98% statistic. However, i do not think unitended casualties need to be the norm. You know why we never see drone strikes? Because drones are not permitted in our airspace. Yet, we use them at will over other countries. If your friend murdered somebody but you did not know, you think the cops should lock you in jail too? These people are not standing trial. They are getting blown up. In this case, a wedding party got bombed. When SOME of the occupants MAY have been militants. Key words are capaitalized.
Dec 13 2013 9:58PM
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.Apex.
Posts: 2097 - Karma: 1,556
Thanks Amazon.
Dec 13 2013 10:00PM
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sherwood4099
Posts: 1173 - Karma: 22
When in the history of war has the goal ever been to bring the enemy to trial and punish them?? The goal is to kill the fucking enemy so they don't kill you or yours. And why your wrong the reason we don't have drones killing people in America is because we are not fighting a war against ourselves. War isn't pretty but for christ sake be realistic. Why the heck would we be bringing the enemy to trial? Should we be driving around the battle field with loud speakers blareing "halt your under arrest" War and crime are not comparable or equal.
Dec 13 2013 10:19PM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,027
Does it have to be this way? Do we have to go around murdering people with remote control airplanes on their soil? It is almost 2014. With all the knowledge in this world, we can not advnace further than killing? Yeah, this is the way it has always been. But it does not have to be this way. So much fuckery out there it is crazy. And i do not have a source for that statement because the goverment sets rules to what the media can talk about.

Dec 13 2013 10:24PM
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sherwood4099
Posts: 1173 - Karma: 22
I wish it wasn't but when so long as there are evil people willing to hurt/kill innocent people we will people will have to act violently to defeat them. People who are good don't want it to be this way but the truth is its the evil people who set the rules. We can try to live in peace and harmony as much as we want. But if evil people set up to disrupt that and good people to nothing guess who will floresh and set precedent? It's just a fact. These people/ countries have always existed and unfortunately that forces the majority of people who just want to live happily and prosper to react or face continued violence and/ or oppression. It's unpleasant it's dirty work and it isn't what good people want to spend their time and money doing. But it is nessecary.
Dec 13 2013 10:35PM
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ZeMagnificentKev
Posts: 618 - Karma: 1,325
Its more like just some regular guy who has to stare at a computer screen for hours on end having absolutely no fun, sometime's watching his comrade's oversea's fight and die on camera, sometime's unable to even warn soldiers of the IED they can clearly see from the air but the soldiers on the ground have no idea its there because all radio contact has been jammed so as not to set off IED's (-_-) Oh and you're kick ass drone pilot seat is actually a cramped tiny office you have to share with another dude for upwards of 12hrs. OH and even better, like any other technology there's lag that fucks you over, and on top of that most of the people in charge have no fucking clue what you can do with a drone, or even its fucking limitations (lol stfu, I told you to fly that damn drone into a storm that will almost certainly destroy so you best fucking do it son) Oh and good luck getting a promotion
Dec 13 2013 10:57PM
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Chunter
Posts: 2050 - Karma: 1,894
look at all these paragraphs without breaks in them. where is peppermillreno when you need him?
Dec 13 2013 11:19PM
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Mr.Sloth
Posts: 5091 - Karma: 13,470
Hopefully the next drone will get OP
Dec 13 2013 11:20PM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,027
yeah, man. Hopefully.
Dec 13 2013 11:25PM
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papermache
Posts: 1097 - Karma: 616

just gotta do a little research, here's a couple sources to get you started bro. its honestly pretty astounding to me that people like you can justify this kind of policy.

 http://articles.latimes.com/2012/sep/24/world/la-fg-drone-study-20120925

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/opinion/17exum.html?_r=2&

Dec 14 2013 12:39AM
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Twinjibber77
Posts: 6239 - Karma: 2,355
If you associate with anyone in Al-Qaeda in any way, shape or form i have zero respect and give zero fucks about your life outcome.
Dec 14 2013 12:44AM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,027
The women in those socities have very little rights. The children assocaited with them have even less control. So if your brother murders somebody the governemt should be able to kill your mother? How do we know these are actually terroist and this is not our government making excuses to go in there, take control and in return gain control of their resources.
Do you still think we are going to find WMDs in Iraq?
Dec 14 2013 1:00AM
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Twinjibber77
Posts: 6239 - Karma: 2,355
We're not going anywhere for anyone's resources!
I'll be the first person to tell you going to Iraq was fucked but at the same time there was also shit there long before everything popped off.

Don't get all conservative/republican/service members twisted with whole heartedly thinking it was a just war. At the same time the difference between bring that up and shit that happens with Al-Qaeda is far different.

Risking American lives to have boots on the ground in a country like this is WAY out of whack considering these individuals are going to be caught in deadly crosfire either way. We're dealing with people here that use women and children as sacrificial lambs on a regular basis btw.
Dec 14 2013 1:17AM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
1 nuke...

that's all I'm saying.
Dec 14 2013 1:21AM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,027
We do not know if this is true. The NY times article states the militants are attacking in response to our drone attacks. Our drone attacks are in response to their attacks. They do not want us there. What are we supposed to believe? Honestly, we can't believe anything the media tells us. If we need boots on the ground to lower the number of Civilian deaths then that is how it should be. Are American lives worth more than non-American lives? Why are we using drones over their, but not here? How soon until somebody gets assinated on American soil with a drone? How soon until an innocent American is murdered? Will we care then? Not all of these questions are for you, that is just where my thinking is currenly...
Dec 14 2013 1:32AM
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qazwsxedc34
Posts: 2955 - Karma: 2,135
Ordering drone strikes in Yemen without a declared war?

US citizen Anwar al-Awlaki, was murdered for not what he did, but for what he was going to do? JSOC tried to assassinate him despite being a lawful citizen, advocating and preaching about how "not one US citizen should be killed for the detainment of innocent muslims in America," . He went from being an American boy to something he opposed and spoke against. Without committing any crimes, he was murdered by a drone strike, ordered by the president himself.

Weeks later, his 16 year old son was murdered by a drone strike, under presidential order, while eating with his friends. That sounds like murder to me!



Dec 14 2013 2:40AM
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qazwsxedc34
Posts: 2955 - Karma: 2,135
It’s not a war! Many of the strikes happen in undeclared war zones.
Dec 14 2013 2:44AM
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papermache
Posts: 1097 - Karma: 616

if you are not against drones for the obvious humanitarian reasons, then you should atleast be against it for the sake of your own safety. medling in other countries and killing people (civilian or militant) does not supress dangers to Americans, it streanghens them! Killing people by dropping bombs on weddings only garners more hatred for america, and support for those who want to harm us. Honestly, if you hate terrorism so much, you should be pissed that this goes on.

Dec 14 2013 11:10AM
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49566738265
Posts: 0 - Karma: 7,705
That's actually not true at all, and most people's perception of "collateral damage" and the way the US handles it is very skewed. There are extremely strict ROE's and drop criteria that drive whether or not you can drop on something and the consequences for fucking that up intentionally or otherwise are extreme if you didn't follow the ROE. I've seen guys we were 100% certain were bad get disengaged because they were too close to a farmer's donkey. I'm not exaggerating. Our weapons are extremely accurate and the targeting sensors are as well.

Accepting civilian casualties is a very high level decision that would come down from the people you elected to put in office, not a pilot. It also happens much less often than the media portrays it, so you should consider that as well. I wish this article mentioned more about the civilian casualties, because it doesn't seem to offer any evidence at all of that other than a local told the news civilians (who you must also realize could be known militants not civilians) were killed.

I don't think this is a drone problem, this is a war problem that is neither clear cut or new. The unfortunate nature of war is that is sucks. It's ugly and terrible. Drones are capable aircraft, and I don't think this situation would be much different if another type of aircraft had been made to pull the trigger.
Dec 14 2013 12:12PM
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987321654hgfd
Posts: 5133 - Karma: 5,447
Looking forward to the press conference where he states he "had no idea that was going on."

#ThanksObama
Dec 14 2013 12:16PM
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49566738265
Posts: 0 - Karma: 7,705
That is a 4 year old article in the Opinion section of LA Times. It's basically a blog.

I admire your passion, but you seem to be chained to someone else's interpretation of what the media told them.
Dec 14 2013 12:17PM
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49566738265
Posts: 0 - Karma: 7,705
What are the obvious humanitarian reasons? I'm not being a dick, I'm actually interested in why so many people are irked by a UAV more than another type of aircraft.
Dec 14 2013 12:22PM
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SapperDaddy
Posts: 191 - Karma: 1,168
I'm not sure if you guys have heard but we are fighting a GLOBAL WAR on terrorism most of these countries give us the good ahead anyways its not just us launching strikes without permission. Our ROE on the ground is strict I couldnt imagine a drone in a non war zone shits gotta be tighter then a ticks asshole. People act like drones do nothing but kill civilians the news on covers the stories where a few civilians are injured or hurt.
Dec 14 2013 12:32PM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,027
I hear ya.. and yes my problem is definitely more about the war than the drones themselves.

My problem with UAV is they are slowly going to make their way into our everyday lives. Before you know the village police will be able to justify they need an UAV to patrol main street. Then, not only will they be able to watch the village through cameras, tthey'll be watching you in your own backyard. But, the drones will be very helpful for search and rescue. That is one way I can see them squeezing in drones in our air space. Or police chases turn to drone chases. That is all great. Until the spying begins. And every time a black dude trys lighting a joint behind the bar the cops will nab them without having to hide in the bushes. Random example I know but I witnessed that at work.
Dec 14 2013 12:39PM
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-benedetto
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 1,359
Coming from someone with a GWAT ribbon, we're not even officially at war which is crazy. Is that so Americans are not actually "war criminals" because maybe we are creating an enemy over there and most of the population wants us the FUCK out. It's been over a decade and I say this a lot on here but we are spending billions when our country needs it.  (Generalization to follow) Most war supporters don't support the poor in this country but have the nerve to say we are fighting for the freedom of the Afghan people? That is fucking bullshit. We can spend billions here and open some doors for the less fortunate. I know they have a chance being born here but there is a lot that can be done to fix our poverty stricken areas..
Dec 14 2013 1:08PM
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Dan.
Posts: 7201 - Karma: 1,126
So you hate the United States? Don't forget that we are the reason Al Qaeda has weapons, training, and funding in the first place, and we just recently were ready to re-up our support of Al Qaeda militants in Libya.
Dec 14 2013 1:24PM
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987321654hgfd
Posts: 5133 - Karma: 5,447
What do you mean "officially." We're at war. It may not be declared but it was authorized by congress and it's a war. I think congressional authorization makes it pretty official

It's a GWOT* (Global War on Terrorism Service Medal/Expeditionary Medal depending)
Dec 14 2013 1:26PM
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Dan.
Posts: 7201 - Karma: 1,126
people are afraid of what they don't understand.
Dec 14 2013 1:26PM
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SapperDaddy
Posts: 191 - Karma: 1,168
Hmm thats funny because the loya jirga which was 2500 elders from all parts of afghanistan came to the agreement that we need to stay longer til the country is stable. They represent all kinds of people from afghanistan.

And its GWOT fool and everyone in the military gets a GWOT. I have an Afghanistan Campaign medal though. Ive seen lots of this country for good and bad.
Dec 14 2013 1:36PM
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PJS.
Posts: 11943 - Karma: 895
Are you straight up retarded? Drone pilots sit in fucking boxes in some stateside AF base. They sure as fuck don't risk their lives like anyone who gets deployed, even in a non-combat role. Did you see the blow back, especially from the infantry, when drone pilots were going to be eligible for a decoration above a bronze star? Even the military itself objects to everyone in the military being universally called a hero no matter what they do.

Fuck mindless hero worship, and fuck you.
Dec 14 2013 1:48PM
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