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USA very hypocritical

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-Tristan-
Posts: 915 - Karma: 19
the US is being really really hypocritical in this whole terrorism thing. none of it is right there should be no terrorism ever it is the worst form of protest or trying to get people to listen and i wish all violence would stop, but befor everyone goes on thinking their country is so high and mighty take this into account:
after a military attack on a military base in pearl harbour during a war you all kno what the US did thats right they sety off 2 nucular explosions killing millions of INOSCENT civilions in Japan. this weather you like it or not was terrorism.
just dont think of the states as always being right thats all i want to say
Dec 5 2004 1:42PM
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hazel_32
Posts: 170 - Karma: 14
to whomever said they thought pearl harbor was an unprovoked attack wrong...while we didnt physically provoke them....Japanese troops were attacking other small countries in the east to try to do what germany was doing in Europe...build an empire...so then they started to attack isladns over there that we controlled...and inoccent islads like the phillipines...we cut Japan off supplies such as weapons and minerals...so after we did that the attack on Pearl Harbor was their retaliation...



Brian
Dec 5 2004 8:21PM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
Prove you wrong, eh _skibum? Easy.

1000 troops died at pearl harbour, TROOPS. You think that accoutns for 350,000+ deaths of civilians? The bombing of hiroshiam and nagasaki didn't end the war, it ended the war with Japan.

Japan was the last country we were at war with. The War in Germany ended in May of that year. Japan surrendered in September.

Also. You stated that the US invaded the mainland of Japan after the surrender. This is not true. The US never 'invaded' Japan as such. We occupied Japan, yes, but there was never any forceful invasion. The closest thing that could have been called an invasion of Japanese land was the Russian invasion of Japanese territories in North Korea on August 8th, 1945.

You CAN NOT compare World War 2 to todays 'terrorists.' World War 2 was probably the last true battle between good and evil, where the sides were easily drawn. Japan was hell bent on world domination as well as Germany. Both countries commited unspeakable war crimes. Japanese scientists used to dissect American pilots, and Chinese citizens ALIVE to test biological and chemical warfare methods. In fact, Japan used biological weapons on Chinese citizens which caused the plague. If Japan was not nuked, they were planning on dropping bombs and kamikaze pilots filled with plague ridden fleas onto San Diego and LA, and had no qualms about killing MILLIONS of civilians!

You have to look at it from the perspective of somebody then, not from what we know now. They knew the size and strength of the Japanese forces, but they had to account for other factors. How many ships would make it past the Japanese Navy and the kamikaze pilots? How big of a resistance would the Civilians put up? Could they maintain supply lines to Japan? The fact is, many more people would have died in an invasion and the months of war that would have continued in the fight for the mainland. I believe the figures you have would be for just the first invasion and it doesn't take into account the civilians and military casualties that would have occured in the following months.

Please don't ever argue World War 2 in that kind of case, I find it personally offensive as many members of my family fought in WW2, my grandmothers entire family was wiped out in Poland, and my dad's family fought against the Japanese.


-Andy

---ppp---
Dec 5 2004 8:49PM
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Sharpy
Posts: 7596 - Karma: 19
you find it personally offesive? Iwon't go into my losses, lets jus tsay your famiyl wasnt the only victim. Ok, the war did end with Japan, my bad. The US did land armed soldiers on Japanese mainland durign the war. ANd the US did invade Japanese territoty. Do you think soldiers were fighting on the water? Then you go onto syaing I compare WW2 to terrorism today. Tha twasn't me at all, starting at that point you started pullign shit out of your ass.
Dec 5 2004 9:07PM
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hellmut
Posts: 1460 - Karma: 29
if we didnt physically provoke them, did we use telepathy?
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Dec 5 2004 9:09PM
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Sharpy
Posts: 7596 - Karma: 19
they said US used embargos and such, fucking dumbass
Dec 5 2004 9:09PM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
Ok, I won't start on your awful typing. Where the hell do you get your non-facts? The US NEVER landed armed troops on the Japanese mainland during World War 2. I've dedicated a good portion to my life studying, reading about, and summarily researching and discussing World War 2. The US didn't invade true Japanese territories as such, the islands invaded and reclaimed were either independant, or seized from other nations. Are you familiar at all with how the Pacific theatre was fought during the war?

The points made against the comparison with World War 2 America and todays terrorists were against the original poster, but you sure seemed to agree with him. Where the hell are you coming up with that I pulled stuff out of my ass. Everything I presented to you I pulled out of books I have sitting in front of me on the topic, one of which is about Unit 731, Japan's biological warfare division during the war. You need to do some more research before you blab your mouth like that.


-Andy

---ppp---
Dec 5 2004 9:16PM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
You're killing me here man. The US never embargoed Japan prior to World War 2. We were trading partners up until Pearl Harbor. Most of the steel used to build the Japanese war machine came from the US. As did a lot of electronics. Pearl Harbor was an unprovoked attack to bring the US into the war against Japan, which would then, in turn, bring the US into the war against Germany. It was said that Hitler might have influenced it through his correspondance with the Japanese emporer. READ... SOME... BOOKS... PLEASE...




-Andy

---ppp---
Dec 5 2004 9:22PM
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punk_rider
Posts: 2327 - Karma: 10
skibum_ is the most under educated man i've ever seen in my life!
haha! this guys makes hstorical mistakes in every single sentence he makes!
i guess he is not old enough to have learnt WW2 at school!
;D such a fun to read him
*******************



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Dec 6 2004 2:53PM
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Sharpy
Posts: 7596 - Karma: 19
andyrightcoast, yes, you were right, but it was not I who was talking about embargoes, just clarifying for someone else as to wah tanotehr person was saying.

punk_rider, honestly, just shut the fuck up, you sound like a raving maniac.
Dec 6 2004 3:05PM
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weenox
Posts: 1568 - Karma: 19
i want to see skibum fight a war....let me ask you this, if we didnt invade japanese territory and didnt drop bombs on cities, how on gods name would we have fought the war? and dont give me that bull shit about dont start it in the first place. we didnt start it...they did.







I used to do crack. I still do, but i used to too.
Dec 6 2004 3:12PM
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Sharpy
Posts: 7596 - Karma: 19
um, as has been proved, you didn't invade japanese territoty, you just dropped bombs. But you did take back territory that Japan invaded.
Dec 6 2004 3:17PM
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Sharpy
Posts: 7596 - Karma: 19
I was also against the nuclear bombs. Bombing military targets and stuff is all good. I am done with this thread, I embarassed myself and the topic is dead.
Dec 6 2004 3:18PM
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punk_rider
Posts: 2327 - Karma: 10
hahahahahaha! this guy kills me! funniest guy on NS! great award coz you have big competitors!
*******************



PUNK'S NOT DEAD!

RAILS SUCK!

POWDER SKIING RULES!

DEATH TO SNOWBOARD-ERS!!

BUSH WON!!
Dec 6 2004 3:21PM
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-Tristan-
Posts: 915 - Karma: 19
you all make very valid points but all i am trying to get across is that killing hundreds of thousands of civilians then and condeming many to death because of radiation was not the right course of action. japan never should have done any of the things they did either at that time but killing cevilians is wrong and can not be justified.
Dec 6 2004 3:27PM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
you just don't know when to quit do you?

look, those civilians would have died ANYWAY. that was the whole point of my previous post...do you read anything before you post?
i ski for Head
Dec 6 2004 4:38PM
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ski8990
Posts: 5961 - Karma: 19
when punkrider calls you under educated you know it's time to quit



Jesus saves!

Gretzky gets the rebound. he feeds the puck to LeClair. he shoots! he scores! the crowd goes wild
Dec 6 2004 4:56PM
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Sharpy
Posts: 7596 - Karma: 19
punk_rider calls you under educated no matter what, as long as you disagree with him.
Dec 6 2004 5:06PM
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hellmut
Posts: 1460 - Karma: 29
skibum is getting ripped
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Dec 6 2004 5:57PM
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Boards
Posts: 849 - Karma: 27
ecfs, but it can not be proved that they WOULD have died anyways. the fact is they did die by a direct assult on them.

there were many other options to dropping the bombs on civilians. they could have dropped them on isoloated islands with the japanaese watching or nummerous other possibilities. they did nto even warn the japanese of what was coming, the civilians hasd no chance. that is what is wrong with the whole situation.
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Dec 6 2004 6:55PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
Wow, this thread is amazing. backyard_jibmaster and skibum_, please finish your middle school history class before you try and make any more conclusions about WWII. You have no argument. Know your history damn it!

****************************************

Prepare to get raped by the people who care to much about other people's business.

-asac



RTHARTS IT MY WASTRTD ASS IS FOGOINF TO SLEEEPm FUCK ALL YOUl

-J.D._May



A closed mouth gathers no feet.

-proverb



Proud member of the d-loc fanclub
Dec 6 2004 7:10PM
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Ski-hobo
Posts: 7121 - Karma: 15
and to not think the japs wouldn't have dropped a nuke on NYC is naive. If they had the chance, a jap would kill you and every one you love.


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Dec 6 2004 7:17PM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
Hey leave the guy alone, he got zinged no need to continue it further.

-Andy

---ppp---
Dec 7 2004 12:21AM
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Ice-Is-Scary
Posts: 0 - Karma: 87
'If they had the chance, a jap would kill you and every one you love. '

hahaha thats nearly sig worthy


We pay our debt sometimes.
Dec 7 2004 12:23AM
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Shaggy
Posts: 4349 - Karma: 17
What if the US didnt drop the bombs and attacked Japan using troops instead, tens of thousands COULDVE been killed. What if the US didnt drop the bombs and Japan had surrendered as it has been mentioned before? Tens of thousands COULDVE been saved.

But the thing that i think most of you are missing, is that what happened happened, theres no going back and changing it. And most of all, theres no clear way to prove anything without a doubt.

As for my opinion, I think that bombing civilians isn't the right thing to do. They could've just demonstrated their power by attacking a military target or, as has been said above, an unpopulated area.

And in the long run, Hiroshima and Nagasaki ended up far worse than Dresden did because of the use of nuclear weapons. Regular mortars just blast the shit out of whatever they land near, turning everything to rubble. Nuclear weapons have a much more devastating effect, because the effects last a hell of alot longer than the bombardment. Even today people are still dying, getting sick, and being born with deformities because of the radiation that is still present in the area.

War is bullshit, every nation in the world should disarm themselves and retire their military forces. There will never be true peace until there is no more army, navy, or air force.
Dec 7 2004 1:06AM
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-Tristan-
Posts: 915 - Karma: 19
' if they had the chance the japs would kill you and everyone you love' i think the point of the mater is that they didnt, the very thing that you are trying to portray as being evil and wrong is the path that your country took plain and simple
Dec 7 2004 9:51AM
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volpetrolski
Posts: 97 - Karma: 10
There is truth in the fact that Japan was ready for surrender. Numerous facts hindered this from happening without the two bombs being necessary, but the most important reason was to scare off the Russians who got their armies already assembled in Manchuria (big country north of China and Korea) to invade Japan.
So you see, the cold war already begun before WWII was finished.
Dec 7 2004 10:16AM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
i think the point of the mater is that they didnt, the very thing that you are trying to portray as being evil and wrong is the path that your country took plain and simple

Use your head. The reason nothing happened to us was because we took action against them before they did anything that severe to us. What makes you think the Japan were “good� or “better� than the US? Are you suggesting we should have done nothing? Your perception of the “right path� defies common sense.


****************************************

Prepare to get raped by the people who care to much about other people's business.

-asac



RTHARTS IT MY WASTRTD ASS IS FOGOINF TO SLEEEPm FUCK ALL YOUl

-J.D._May



A closed mouth gathers no feet.

-proverb



Proud member of the d-loc fanclub
Dec 7 2004 11:31AM
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volpetrolski
Posts: 97 - Karma: 10

this isn't a matter of good or bad quinny. And assuming they would attacked if they had a nuke also seems a bit too easy and hypothetic to me, since they never had one. In that way you can literally claim anything.
Not that I totally disagree with Truman's decision in those days. I mean, who are we to judge that since its over 60 years ago and we cannot even understand a little bit of the situation it was in those days. Nor is it even slightly comparable to the idiocy of the US president and his entourage. But it's a true and a sad fact that the nuking of H. and N. was avoidable; if it wasn't for those bloody war politics that is.
Dec 7 2004 11:47AM
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volpetrolski
Posts: 97 - Karma: 10
^with 'idiocy of the US president' I mean the CURRENT US president offcourse.

always at your service, VP.;)
Dec 7 2004 11:49AM
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-Tristan-
Posts: 915 - Karma: 19
fr someone eles: In perle harbour about 2041 servicemen were killed. Thats soldiers, mechanics ect. In the 2 A-bombs that were dropped on hiroshima and nagasaki almost 900,000 were killed. And this was a city. Those were civilians. Babies, kids anyone. That was the worst terrorism ever in the history of time. It also goes against the geneva convention. Its a war crime. But the US isn't too concerened about war crimes. about 3000 people died on 9/11. thats bad, but the US killed 300 times worse. Its the worst terrorism the world has ever seen. The united staes goverment is the worst group of terrorist in the world. I don't feel like wrighting anymore. This makes me angry to think about.
Dec 7 2004 11:49AM
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volpetrolski
Posts: 97 - Karma: 10
'1 death is considered a tragedy, 1.000.000 a statistic'.

(Josef Stalin)
Dec 7 2004 11:55AM
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SohCahToa
Posts: 1221 - Karma: 11
iceisscary roolz
Dec 7 2004 12:00PM
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Ice-Is-Scary
Posts: 0 - Karma: 87
backyard first of all it wasnt 900,000, secondly please stop trying to dehumanize the servicemen who died sleeping in their ships at pearl harbor. Yes, they were working for the military but they were still human beings. Regardless of the job you have in the morning or the outfit you wear people are people. I think you guys need to drop the subject because you are bitching to people who's parents weren't even alive at the time. It's not our faults, stop blaming me for slavery in 1800's and find another scapegoat for the evils of the world and leave America alone for two days.


We pay our debt sometimes.
Dec 7 2004 12:06PM
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Ice-Is-Scary
Posts: 0 - Karma: 87
Let me illustrate the situtation into something easier for you to comprehend.

Your walking down the hallway at school you see a big bad football player in front of you. Hes occupied dealing with other people at the time so you think your gonna cheapshot him and take him down. You punch him in the back of the head when he's not looking. He's stunned but he still turns around, smacks you in the face and breaks your jaw. He's standing on top of you as you lay on the ground helpless and asks 'Are you done?' 'Do you give up?'. You say 'no' He socks you again and breaks your nose. Now tell me who is at fault in this situation? The guy going for the cheapshot sucker punch, or the person defending themselves?


We pay our debt sometimes.
Dec 7 2004 12:18PM
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-Tristan-
Posts: 915 - Karma: 19
ice-is-scary who said America are the bullies I agree 100% of the way and thank you so much for making our point.
Dec 7 2004 12:31PM
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Ice-Is-Scary
Posts: 0 - Karma: 87
Your very welcome, I'm sorry you're too stupid to make any points on your own. In the future if you need to explain something just ask me and I'll do it for you. I guess they don't teach much in the Canadian schools.


We pay our debt sometimes.
Dec 7 2004 12:33PM
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Quinny
Posts: 3477 - Karma: 163
My final word to backyard:

The US is not bully in Ice's example you dumbass. How could you even call the US a bully during WWII? The political and social climates of the time suggest nothing of that. We went into the war because of many reasons. Japan officially pushed us into the war, and we finished it for them. This country had no other choice but to fight. We couldn't have defeated the Axis with flowers and diplomacy, the enemy was far beyond that point. Can you even name an American motive in that war that made us the bully? If the US did nothing in that war, Europe would be under Nazi control and Japan would rule the Pacific. I would much rather take our current world over that one thank you very much. It's not black and white the way you make it. Nothing like that is ever that simple. You perception is warped and demented. It is a very good thing that there are very few people that are as stupid as you. You can't even fathom simple explanations that put your 'conclusions' to bed. Please finish a basic history class and learn to think logically.

****************************************

Prepare to get raped by the people who care to much about other people's business.

-asac



RTHARTS IT MY WASTRTD ASS IS FOGOINF TO SLEEEPm FUCK ALL YOUl

-J.D._May



A closed mouth gathers no feet.

-proverb



Proud member of the d-loc fanclub
Dec 7 2004 12:50PM
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volpetrolski
Posts: 97 - Karma: 10
^ my vision on your comparison ice because I agree with the first part, but not exactly with the last. Instead of the person he's sitting on saying 'no', he says 'yes' (or at least nothing at all yet for sure) and because of another tough guy watching the scene, he keeps on punchin', to proove himself strong enough.
Dec 7 2004 12:51PM
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Shaggy
Posts: 4349 - Karma: 17
The ONLY reason that Europe didn't fall into Hitler's power was because of a bad decision that he made. He could've taken Britain when they were vulnerable, but he thought to take the war to Soviets. Dumb decision on his part, why fight a war on two fronts with two different powerhouse nations. ESPECIALLY one with a border as large as the Soviet's.
Dec 7 2004 1:12PM
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other1
Posts: 89 - Karma: 20
How many people have visited the site of the Arizona? Just curious.
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Dec 7 2004 2:28PM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
How many Canadians does it take to realize that using nuclear weaponry on Japan wasn't a retaliation for Pearl Harbor?




-Andy

---ppp---
Dec 8 2004 12:24AM
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Ice-Is-Scary
Posts: 0 - Karma: 87
today was the anniversary of the bombing of pearl harbor.


We pay our debt sometimes.
Dec 8 2004 12:25AM
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Shaggy
Posts: 4349 - Karma: 17
i was the anniversary of pearl harbour...oh yearh i'ma drunk
Dec 8 2004 1:32AM
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gretch6364
Posts: 851 - Karma: 8
I am sorry but enlisted men in a time of peace that are murdered by a sneak attack from a bunch of Japs was wrong. Second, we dropped warnings to the people in Nagasaki and Hiroshima and told them we were going to attack and that they should leave. The bombs were not dropped on those cities becuase they were full of people. Those two cities were the manufacturing hub of Japan. I would suggest you go to Japan and talk with some of the Japanese people. Ask a US Navy enlisted man how great it is to be sent to Japan today. The Japanese people have forgiven us and have admitted they were wrong and they continue to welcome US citizens with open arms. Dropping the A-Bombs was not a decision that was made overnight either. The pres. did not want to drop the bomb. He did what he had to.

As far as 9/11 and the war on terror, if I was pres. I would have hired every contruction company in the entire US and paved over the entire middle east and then dumbed all of our trash there. The middle east will always be at war as it has been for thousands of years. We should just take thier oil and then let them all kill eachother.
Estctst101 got the last one . Here is a new riddle:



From house to house he goes,

A messenger small and slight.

And whether it rains or snows,

He sleeps outside at night.

What am I?





''I was at Killington, Ripping, Waisted..'' - Uncle Pete
Dec 10 2004 2:44PM
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weenox
Posts: 1568 - Karma: 19
hhahahahah if by 900,000 you mean like a quarter of that, yes, thats how many people died





I used to do crack. I still do, but i used to too.
Dec 10 2004 9:45PM
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Sharpy
Posts: 7596 - Karma: 19
why was this thread brought back
Dec 10 2004 9:47PM
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evilninja
Posts: 1069 - Karma: 10
yes...yes we are.

-Baybe, I ain't no hero.I'm just a

smoothe pimped-out playa from tha streets who knows how to get his.
Dec 10 2004 9:49PM
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evilninja
Posts: 1069 - Karma: 10
that still pisses me off when bush called it a war against terrorism and that he would destroy it.but there will always be terrorism,no matter what.there always has and there always will be.its like dick clark,it will never go away.

-Baybe, I ain't no hero.I'm just a

smoothe pimped-out playa from tha streets who knows how to get his.
Dec 10 2004 9:55PM
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FLGators0621
Posts: 263 - Karma: 10
it wasnt two nuclear bombs, it was two ATOMIC bombs. BIGm difference. im sick of hereing people bash on America. if you hate it so bad, do something. dont just sit here and complain, do something. every country has problems. why not say something anout afghanistan or iraq? they have plenty of problems like Al Qeuda and people in Iraq are keeping them from being a free country. i agree that the us shouldn't have went to war for this long but wasn't my choice. dont hate the many fo rthe mistakes of the few.
Dec 15 2004 8:46AM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
sorry bud
those are the same thing

you were thinking that it wasn't a hydrogen bomb, which is true, it wasn't.


i ski for Head
Dec 15 2004 9:58AM
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