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USA very hypocritical

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-Tristan-
Posts: 915 - Karma: 19
the US is being really really hypocritical in this whole terrorism thing. none of it is right there should be no terrorism ever it is the worst form of protest or trying to get people to listen and i wish all violence would stop, but befor everyone goes on thinking their country is so high and mighty take this into account:
after a military attack on a military base in pearl harbour during a war you all kno what the US did thats right they sety off 2 nucular explosions killing millions of INOSCENT civilions in Japan. this weather you like it or not was terrorism.
just dont think of the states as always being right thats all i want to say
Dec 5 2004 1:42PM
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Sharpy
Posts: 7596 - Karma: 19
you're goign to get a bunch of 'you're not american, mind your own business' type posts now.
Dec 5 2004 1:46PM
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Ice-Is-Scary
Posts: 0 - Karma: 87
Millions of people were killed in WW2, Millions were not killed in Hiroshimo/Nagasaki bombings. I'd say it was closer to 100,000 people. But if they didn't surrender can you imagine how many more people would have died since Japan delcared war on the United states. If there was an invasion/groundwar the tolls would have been much higher. Granted Nuclear weapons are fucked up but it prolly saved lives in the long run.


We pay our debt sometimes.
Dec 5 2004 1:51PM
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-Tristan-
Posts: 915 - Karma: 19
i dont really care cause anyone who postes anything like that obviously is fairly ignorant and doesnt realize that this is about US forign policy and involves the whole world
Dec 5 2004 1:54PM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
ARMCHAIR ACTIVIST ALERT

Why don't you complain about it on the internet, eh? Makes things better in the world, right?


-Andy

---ppp---
Dec 5 2004 1:55PM
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Sharpy
Posts: 7596 - Karma: 19
350,000 were killed from the two bombs right away. I was unable to find a figure saying how many people suffered from the effects of the bomb but didn't die right away. Also many babies were born with varies ailements.
Dec 5 2004 1:56PM
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Ice-Is-Scary
Posts: 0 - Karma: 87
http://ww2bodycount.netfirms.com/

Look at those death tolls it was a good thing to bring WW2 to an end. Remeber Japan attacked us unprovoked because they thought our forces were spread too thin and decided it was a good time for a sneak attack/cheap shot. They paid dearly.


We pay our debt sometimes.
Dec 5 2004 1:56PM
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Sharpy
Posts: 7596 - Karma: 19
about the armchair activist thing. Any protest against something, no matter where it is voiced is one step towards change. It doesn't matter if someone chooses to voice their protest on the opinion o nthe itnernet or by marching down a street, they are still taking that step.
Dec 5 2004 1:58PM
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Sharpy
Posts: 7596 - Karma: 19
1000 troops died at pearl harbour, TROOPS. You think that accoutns for 350,000+ deaths of civilians? The bombing of hiroshiam and nagasaki didn't end the war, it ended the war with Japan.
Dec 5 2004 2:00PM
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wilkesyachtingco
Posts: 4425 - Karma: 41
riiiight.... which did what? ended the war.















Mercy's eyes are blue
When she places them in front of you
Nothing holds a roman candle to
The solemn warmth you feel inside
Dec 5 2004 2:01PM
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ATLskier
Posts: 8203 - Karma: 406
yeah, the death tolls would have been much harder had the US not dropped the 2 bombs. While we were fighting them a lot of japanese citezens helped them out by being kamakazis, not flying airlplanes into ships, but just suicide to blow stuff up. LIke a kid would run under a US tank and blow himself and the tank up. We gave Japan an option to surrender after the first bomb, but they didn't.
I don't deny there are bad things in the US right now, hell, 51% of the country to be exact. But god damnit, our country being fat is NOT a problem. I do't give a shit how fat people are. hell, fat kids are harder to kidnap, that means our country is safer.

-Melvs
Dec 5 2004 2:02PM
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Ice-Is-Scary
Posts: 0 - Karma: 87
Well people are learning lessons about attacking America. Look what happened with 9/11 we starting bombing the shit outa terrorists. Did more people die than the original 3000? Yup. will more die? Yup. Has another country attacked us since WW2? nope. Trust me way more people would have died if the Japan situation went any further. You can't flat out blame America remember who attack who. If they didnt try a sneak attack invasion of the United States would we have bombed them? Nope


We pay our debt sometimes.
Dec 5 2004 2:03PM
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hazel_32
Posts: 170 - Karma: 14
they predicted that if we wouldnt have dropped the bomb on nagasaki and heroshima....and we had a land war with them, that we would have lost 1,000,000 men.....but then they later found out, that japans emperor Hito, and his delegates, where already in the process of surrendering months before the bomb was dropped...yes i am an american... do i think the bomb should have been dropped...i dont know...i wasnt even born



Brian
Dec 5 2004 2:04PM
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Sharpy
Posts: 7596 - Karma: 19
um, US didn't invade Japan mainland with force until after the bombs. So the civilians wouldn't have much chance of blowing shit up. I guess the victors write the history books. The war continued many months past the end of the war wit hJapan.
Dec 5 2004 2:04PM
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Sharpy
Posts: 7596 - Karma: 19
thats an interesting fact hazel. I didn't know that.
Dec 5 2004 2:05PM
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Ice-Is-Scary
Posts: 0 - Karma: 87
If your walking down the hallway at school and someone pushes you and takes your lunch money what would you do? You can brush it off and do nothing and be a target for any other person who feels like picking on you or stealing your lunch money. OR you could pound the shit out of his face, kick his teeth out while he's down, beat up his little brother and fuck his sister. Let's see if anyone messes with you again.


We pay our debt sometimes.
Dec 5 2004 2:05PM
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Sharpy
Posts: 7596 - Karma: 19
well, I knew the million soldiers fact. I also read the US government later said their estimate was exagerated and that after invading and examining the Japanese defence, it would have been much less.
Dec 5 2004 2:06PM
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Sharpy
Posts: 7596 - Karma: 19
I wouldn't go and kick the shit out of their entire family.
Dec 5 2004 2:07PM
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-Tristan-
Posts: 915 - Karma: 19
its still a barbaric terrorist act just now you think its justified the other was war this was innoscent civilians and the ones who were kamakazies were considered troops just look up the meaning of the word. and uyou gave them litterally like an hour to decide between bombs, not nearly enough
Dec 5 2004 2:12PM
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Ice-Is-Scary
Posts: 0 - Karma: 87
Ohh so the people sleeping in their ships at pearl harbor don't count because they are 'military'. Like that wasn't a barbaric act. The whole underlying theme I'm trying to convey here is they wouldn't have suffered a single loss if they never attacked us. Blame the leaders of Japan who decided to attack America knowing very well they were gonna suffer huge losses both militarily and civilian-wise.


We pay our debt sometimes.
Dec 5 2004 2:15PM
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-Tristan-
Posts: 915 - Karma: 19
and the kicking the shit out of their family doesnt exactly make you soumd like the nicest guy thats my piont there are oter ways of solving problems you learn that when your 3
Dec 5 2004 2:21PM
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Ice-Is-Scary
Posts: 0 - Karma: 87
Your totally right dude how could I be so stupid, America should have surrendered. Fuck it lets surrender now to make up for it.


We pay our debt sometimes.
Dec 5 2004 2:22PM
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punk_rider
Posts: 2327 - Karma: 10
^idiot! pearl harbor was terrorism coz war wasn't declared. in hiroshima and nagasaki, war was declared. it avoided a landing in japan that would have been much more killing than these bombs.
moreover, canada, england, ... did worst in Dresden .
so please, stop that!

*******************

PUNK'S NOT DEAD!
RAILS SUCK!
POWDER SKIING RULES!
DEATH TO SNOWBOARD-ERS!!
VOTE BUSH!!
Dec 5 2004 2:23PM
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-Tristan-
Posts: 915 - Karma: 19
actually in a war military and cevilian are 100% diferent but i stil dont agree with the pearl harbout attack just the bombs were a lot worse and the wrong corse of action

Dec 5 2004 2:25PM
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-Tristan-
Posts: 915 - Karma: 19
you all really want to believe that your country is sright . killing civilians is wrong and you cant argue with that
Dec 5 2004 2:31PM
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punk_rider
Posts: 2327 - Karma: 10
i'm french!
when a country is in war, all the people are in war.
in vietnam, there were no civilians (commies sent kids with grenades so that gi's took them in their arms then explode= is it civilians?)
for japan, without a call from the emperor, all the population would have fought to death.
when we fought nazism, we fought the whole germany ...
'i never advocated war but as a mean of peace' (Ulysses Grant).
war is bad, but sometimes necessary. and think one thing: who strike first?

*******************

PUNK'S NOT DEAD!
RAILS SUCK!
POWDER SKIING RULES!
DEATH TO SNOWBOARD-ERS!!
VOTE BUSH!!
Dec 5 2004 2:44PM
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Sharpy
Posts: 7596 - Karma: 19
oh man, punk_rider, why do you post, hnestly, stop now, please.
Dec 5 2004 2:53PM
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holyDINOSAURS
Posts: 7038 - Karma: 639
i whole heartedly agree that the US seems very hypocritical as of late, i have an extreme dislike for us policy and ideals...but backyard_jibber may not be the best candidate to be arguing this point without any backing, facts, or proper spelling. i like being canadian

----------------------------------------
I NAMED JIBBERISH BITCHES. (thanks to MikeE)

real stuff is better than stuff on a screen, porn to sex, skiing to ns
-C-Man

JC, TMC, S3p, WCJF

i nailed a chick on saterday night, well sunday morning. then at 815 her friend ran into the room say we are late for church. we need to go. haha i love catholic high school girls
-skiingpimp
Dec 5 2004 2:56PM
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Ice-Is-Scary
Posts: 0 - Karma: 87
every Anti-american thread on this website is from a canadian or australian. You guys need to honestly lay off. That shit happened 60 years ago your preaching to people who werent even alive and many whose parents wern't even alive at the time.


We pay our debt sometimes.
Dec 5 2004 3:02PM
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Sharpy
Posts: 7596 - Karma: 19
and there, it was said
Dec 5 2004 3:08PM
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punk_rider
Posts: 2327 - Karma: 10
^oh yeah! you got sooo great arguments ... i think you convince so that i'll stop to post.

make your puberty then come back talk with me. kid

*******************

PUNK'S NOT DEAD!
RAILS SUCK!
POWDER SKIING RULES!
DEATH TO SNOWBOARD-ERS!!
VOTE BUSH!!
Dec 5 2004 3:48PM
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lineskier10
Posts: 11339 - Karma: 796
THE INOSCENTS ARE DYING, NOOOOOOOO
--------------------

HIGH NORTH SESSION 4

The Hot Sauce Champion of the World
Dec 5 2004 3:51PM
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andyrightcoast
Posts: 5220 - Karma: 18
AMERIKKKA IS TERROR TITS!!!!!11 DROP WEPONS AN SURENDUR STUPOID US LOLZ!


-Andy

---ppp---
Dec 5 2004 4:28PM
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Sharpy
Posts: 7596 - Karma: 19
honestly punk_rider, ask for a french-english dictionary for christmas. please.
Dec 5 2004 4:41PM
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Ski-hobo
Posts: 7121 - Karma: 15
we didn't drop nukes on Japan becuase of Pear Harbor, but we entered the war. And in the grand scheme when 70 million people died as a reusult of WWII, why would the US hesitate in using a weapon to kill several hundred thousand people, in order to perhaps save millions more, both American, and Japanese.


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Dec 5 2004 5:13PM
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ECFS-Attitash
Posts: 2573 - Karma: 13
backyard jibber-

you are obviously not familiar with the mindset of the japanese during WW2. they revered their emperor (who was actually a puppet of the military) like a diety. they believed that dying to defend the emperor was the most honorable action one could take. that was not only true of soldiers, but of civilians as well. it was taught in the schools!

the truth of the matter is that at least 90% of japanese civilians would have fought to the death to defend their homeland...meaning many, many more casualties on both sides.

and finally, as was said before, the conventional bombing of dresden, germany far surpassed hiroshima/nagasaki in terms of civilian deaths...but no one ever seems to remember that. who cares if it was nuclear? the russians, but that's a story for another day.

chew on this for a while


i ski for Head
Dec 5 2004 5:13PM
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Sharpy
Posts: 7596 - Karma: 19
good points^ but i think 90% of the US would die defending their homeland aswel.
Dec 5 2004 5:24PM
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asac
Posts: 12485 - Karma: 17
being high and mighty usually goes along with being a strong world power.





---------------------
Good Fun With A Hand Gun.

Future Canadian
Dec 5 2004 5:25PM
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ESB
Posts: 9274 - Karma: 10,648
^That's the point, man. Don't you see that?
'Oh, he's very popular, Ed. The sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, waistoids, dweebies, dickheads--they all adore him. They think he's a righteous dude.'
Dec 5 2004 5:25PM
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ESB
Posts: 9274 - Karma: 10,648
^Addressed to skibum_.

Skibum_ and the dude who started this thread, it occurs to me that you really don't know anything about WWII. To draw a direct line between the bombing of Pearl Harbor and the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is to totally ignore four years of war, millions of deaths on both sides, including civilians, and the largest war theatre in the history of our race. Truman dropped the bomb as an absolute last resort to the actual invasion of Japan, which- as has been said already- would have resulted in the deaths of millions of American servicemen AND Japanese civilians.

skibum_, the war didn't continue after the bombs were dropped. The first bomb was dropped on Hiroshima on August 6, and Japan surrendered on August 14. The U.S. occupied Japan afterwards- not INVADED.

Attitash has the right approach- more people died in the firebombing of Dresden than in both nuclear blasts combined... no one seems to remember that one.

Anyway, I agree with what you're trying to say- roughly half of all Americans think what we're doing right now in the Middle East is nothing more than terrorism. But WWII is a very bad example with which to argue your point.
'Oh, he's very popular, Ed. The sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, waistoids, dweebies, dickheads--they all adore him. They think he's a righteous dude.'
Dec 5 2004 5:32PM
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hazel_32
Posts: 170 - Karma: 14
the whole japanese philosophy was kill as many amreicans as you can...they fought to the end...,but i dont remember who said it above...they did love their emperor...bit it wasnt till after the bombings on nagasaki and hiroshima that they first heard his voice, when he admited surrender to his people....they had never heard his voice at all...truman had planned to not even let Japan keep their emperor...they were planning on overthrowing him...but after he had realized what kind of destruction the u.s. had done....and knew that Emperor Hito was as said before 'a puppet of the military' he let them keep their emperor....but the mass destruction we did was uncalled for...and then to later find out that they were already in the process of surrendering months before the war...we realized how barbaric that was

first person to name the two bombs nicknames gets a handshake....



Brian
Dec 5 2004 5:35PM
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ESB
Posts: 9274 - Karma: 10,648
Little Boy and Fat Man. :)
'Oh, he's very popular, Ed. The sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, waistoids, dweebies, dickheads--they all adore him. They think he's a righteous dude.'
Dec 5 2004 5:37PM
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hazel_32
Posts: 170 - Karma: 14
and he recieves his handshake...nice job



Brian
Dec 5 2004 5:38PM
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Ice-Is-Scary
Posts: 0 - Karma: 87
The U.S also made the emporer of Japan confess to his people that he wasn't a god publicly


We pay our debt sometimes.
Dec 5 2004 5:40PM
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ESB
Posts: 9274 - Karma: 10,648
Oh, and whoever said that we 'didn't give them enough time' to surrender before we dropped the bomb, please find your history books. After almost FOUR YEARS of war in the Pacific theatre, the U.S. delivered an ultimatum to the emperor on July 21, 1945 to surrender or face total destruction. The Japanese formally REFUSED the ultimatum on July 29. The first bomb was dropped a week later.


'Oh, he's very popular, Ed. The sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, waistoids, dweebies, dickheads--they all adore him. They think he's a righteous dude.'
Dec 5 2004 5:40PM
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k2skierec
Posts: 589 - Karma: 10
maybe if your country was attacked by a bunch of arabs you might feel differently. innocent civilians are going to die thats just a fact of war. And if those bombs werent dropped in japan the war would have lasted years longer and millions of american soldiers would have lost there lives. the bombing in dresden in ww2 were alot worse as far as innocent civilians dieing and everyone seems to foget that just cause the bombs were nuclear mad it 10 times worse
Dec 5 2004 5:47PM
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hellmut
Posts: 1460 - Karma: 29
I always thought pearl harbor was an unprovoked attack on America? Which one started a war and which one ened a war?
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Dec 5 2004 7:17PM
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Boards
Posts: 849 - Karma: 27
first off, the bombs were dropped on civilinas, just as happened in dresden, it is a shame it happened. punk_rider, were the french people living on the coast warriors? their country was involved in war....

the actual figure for American troop deaths that were expected was 55000, that is fifty-five thousand, not millions. that is coming from Dr. Terry Copps, the head of the world war two department at WLU, and a world renowned expert on world war two.

so were 350000 civilian deaths worth the lives of 55000 troops?
-------------------
www.arcloathing.com
Dec 5 2004 7:30PM
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Sharpy
Posts: 7596 - Karma: 19
kamikaze, no American civilians died. Read the chart that ice-is-scary posted. And I was referring to WW2 did not end. I think you should read a little more carefulyl befroe attacking people. Also, I do not agree or disagree with this thread, but I do disagree with people who do not know what they are talking about. I also take offense with you saying that I do not know anything about WW2. History is my hobby. Albeit, I know more about other topics, but do not say I do not know about WW2. Find one thing I have stated which is incorrect and then give me proof.
Dec 5 2004 7:51PM
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guddgulf17
Posts: 3037 - Karma: 10
killing doesnt make an end to things, nor is it a solution. the usa is way too hippocritical in my opinion, and we could definitly do with a good dose of reality. take the names of our acts. the 'healthy forests initative' only cut down trees, which doesnt solve the wildfires that they blamed on over vegitated forests. studies have shown that fires burn equally in areas thinned(trees selectively cut) and untouched forests(normal forests). the'clear skys act' was shown to the public as a way to cut down on pollution. it gave the manfacturing compaines teh ablility to implament volentary emmissions control. when bush was govener of texas, he did the sme thing. out of 486 plants that were subject ot the ruling, 2 complied. who is nieve enough to think that people that make things that pollute are going to lessen thier income vollentarily?
depending on my mood, you might get a nice thoughtful responce that might make sense, or you might get complete jibberish that is not wise to even read. good luck



'do or do not. there is no try.'-yoda



in anceint times, people tied up a goat in the the town square and blamed it for all their problems. then they killed it, and thats where we get scapegoat from
Dec 5 2004 7:57PM
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Ice-Is-Scary
Posts: 0 - Karma: 87
so were 350000 civilian deaths worth the lives of 55000 troops?


Please don't compare actual numbers with projected or expected numbers thats not how science works. Remeber how easy Iraq's liberation was 'expected' to be?


We pay our debt sometimes.
Dec 5 2004 8:18PM
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