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New Liberty Park Ski Design

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libertyskis
Posts: 123 - Karma: 7,863
Newschoolers Community,

We need your help! Here at Liberty Skis we strive to make the best skis for all types of skiers. We value input from the Pros, Joe's and everyone in between. We are currently in the process of designing a new park ski and want some input from you! In return for your input, you will be entered in a drawing for a pair of new park skis you helped design! Winner of the new skis will be selected at random on January 3rd 2013. At random we will be giving away free sticker packs and hard goods products to people who fill out the poll.

Help us make the perfect park ski!

Link below:


StartFragment EndFragment
Dec 5 2013 4:16PM
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last_tango
Posts: 2635 - Karma: 2,665
Haven't skiied on you guys park skis yet but demoing the bouble helix has got me sold on them.
Dec 5 2013 5:55PM
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Lemuel
Posts: 14486 - Karma: 10,635
Symmetrical
Flat / 0 camber
16 m turn radius
95 underfoot
medium flex all around
Dec 5 2013 6:12PM
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Twig
Posts: 6407 - Karma: 60,031
Done, build my skis.
Dec 5 2013 6:30PM
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MontanaMuggin
Posts: 444 - Karma: 1,642
This is a beautiful idea. Mad props guys.
Dec 5 2013 7:13PM
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T.L.
Posts: 4729 - Karma: 3,008
I done did it.  I just want a price-point symmetrical twin with some rocker and beefy as fuck edges.  At the end of the day, I really don't think park kids care about race spec bases and mega awesome buzzword tech in the core. 

And Liberty, if you're listening, make a digger/park crew only version of this ski that would be dayglo orange on the topsheet and the bases..  Same idea as what surface is doing with the Save Life ski for NSP members for $249 except you could probably make them $275 and have trouble keeping up with demand because you would sell so many.  I say make them all dayglo orange for 2 reasons..

1. I've got hurt and I've had tons of my crew get banged up while raking because people don't pay attention.  Skis like that laying across the lip to a rail would be hard to miss.

2.  Look how many 115 lb. fools get the orange fks bindings to stick out and look "pro".  In this case.. the point would be to stick out for safety reasons AND the users would actually be pro.  Professional diggers... win/win.

Make that ski.  Thanks :)



Dec 5 2013 7:34PM
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patt.
Posts: 598 - Karma: 1,272
5 things
-very low swing weight
-rocker
-100% symmetrical
-80-90 waist
-medium flex
Dec 5 2013 8:25PM
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TheDetectives
Posts: 634 - Karma: 1,472
done!
cant wait to see how this turns out i love your LTE's so im sure these will be another home run
Dec 6 2013 12:15AM
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srg_bchkv
Posts: 200 - Karma: 170
SOFT! (soft tip ant tail, medium underfoot)
low swingweight
rockered
symmetrical
90-95

Basically softer (and maybe a little wider) on3p fr


Dec 6 2013 1:47AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
Since everybody, liberty included, makes a good, light swing weight, skinnyish, cambered park ski, we really don't need another.
I think it would be awesome to see something completely new. This is what I would do..

95-100 waist (can still be plenty light at that width, but will be much better for big landings, stability, and smooth buttery feel.

Flat underfoot, rocker tip and tail (not some tiny little 1mm early rise shit, I mean like almost hellbent size rocker. I always thought hellbents killed it carving on groomers anyway. Plus I think big rockers more predictable, where with low rocker, sometimes your tips grab, sometimes they don't)

Medium-stiff underfoot (keep it stable and stompy)

Medium soft tip and tail, maybe have some kind of butter zones with stiffer tips and tails, something to give you the ultimate butter tool, soft and rockered enough to get into butters, but enough platform and stiffness to hold it)

I haven't seen any company really show some balls and come out with a real rockered park ski yet. It's always some dual camber, gotta be able to kill the gates too BS.

I think it'd also be cool to see something a 105-110 waist, completely park oriented rocker ski. Like Maiden ak's with hellbent rocker.
Dec 6 2013 12:16PM
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.Duncan.
Posts: 1375 - Karma: 459
I want this now please.
Dec 6 2013 12:28PM
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ISellMeth
Posts: 1440 - Karma: 673
This a fantastic idea
Dec 6 2013 3:41PM
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DrunkRandy
Posts: 189 - Karma: 171
Fully symmetric rocker camber rocker medium flex ski, 88 underfoot and that goes longer than 178.. Lte's would have been a great choice for many if they came longer. Like a 182 or 184 like the antigen
Dec 6 2013 11:32PM
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Bumblesteeze
Posts: 3092 - Karma: 748
This, and they need to be symmetrical.
Dec 6 2013 11:35PM
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MartianMan
Posts: 1101 - Karma: 2,099
Not the only reason to buy FKS bindings...
Dec 7 2013 1:35AM
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DUKES
Posts: 5150 - Karma: 691
One main request don't make it like the terrible antigen use the materials found in the lte. no extruded base always sintered.
Dec 7 2013 11:17AM
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srg_bchkv
Posts: 200 - Karma: 170
So are you going to release it this season or the next?


Still hoping for some soft skis :)
Dec 7 2013 1:34PM
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last_tango
Posts: 2635 - Karma: 2,665
Well after looking over your guys line up fully(liberty) I think a medium flex center with soft tip and very slightly stiffer tails.

For dimensions a 95 waist with the ski slightly directional. Back east I found a 95 waist to be the sweet spot. That sized waist wasn't too big to get in the way in the park and it could float the occasional foot of snow. I'm a fan of 1cm/2cm back to give you a bit more directional use. Most of the time people are riding forwards but still need to have the ski feel really good when you take off switch and land switch.

Use your bomb rocker tech but have it be more symmetrical(raise the tails as much as the nose rocker). I really liked how the rocker profile on the double helix supported my 220lbs when landing and didn't just slip out like a banana peel which is what hellbent style rocker does for me. On the antigen its a rocker/camber/rocker profile which is good and all but you need a park ski that goes full rocker in your line up without being to over done.

This kinda sounds like a volkl bridge but with softer flex and more symmetrical sidecut.
Dec 7 2013 3:28PM
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phyz
Posts: 573 - Karma: 937
Pretty much all that's been said here is spot on. People are pretty tired of 85-90 waisted cambered park ski with a little bit of tip rocker. It's time for a bigger park ski that can slash, butter, and power like a fat ski but on hard snow. Medium stiff underfoot (97-103 waist), progressive flex into medium-soft tips and tails. Something that butters not because it's a flaccid dick, but because you can load power into the tips and it'll respond dutifully. Ever so slightly directional in sidecut, but keep the tail as big as the tip! Big tips and tails! Even if the tips and tails are softish, you'll have a big surface area to put power into instead of a tiny little noodle tip. I'd also say put a lot of focus into getting a banger sidecut and a lot fluidity edge to edge. Also, really whatever camber/rocker profile works best for this I think best decided by you on on-hill tests. People always talk about bringing the park into pow, but I say bring that distinctly surfy, but powerful pow style to the park!
Dec 7 2013 4:27PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
exactly, the most fun ive had in the park, by far, was on my old hellbents. im not saying make a 120 waist park ski, but a wider, big rocker, buttery surfey PARK specific ski is something that im extremely surprised hasnt come out yet, and needs to.
i dont care about the ski "performing like a GS ski, so you can pretend to be a racer on the way to the park!" if i want a stiff park ski that "performs" ive got a million options. i dont want performance, i want surfey buttery fun.
Dec 7 2013 5:00PM
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Twig
Posts: 6407 - Karma: 60,031
this.
Dec 7 2013 5:25PM
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amo
Posts: 6709 - Karma: 1,248
Think Line Elizabeth plus tip and tail rocker, in 172 and 178, and 184
Dec 7 2013 7:32PM
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Kreech
Posts: 4178 - Karma: 3,024
Sounds like a sir francis bacon to me. A lizzie with flat camber underfoot, a rocker profile that's almost as drastic as a hellbent/ep pro, but not quite (maybe like the caylor profile), with elliptical sidecut and a soft tip/tail and medium/stiff underfoot section would be a killer ski.
Dec 8 2013 2:37AM
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p-fo
Posts: 9372 - Karma: 6,155
-dimensions of 125-95-125 or so
-fully symmetrical
-rocker-flat-rocker
-poppy
-medium to soft flex, stiffer underfoot
-sintered (fast) bases
-beefy edges
-tip and tail rivets
-all for $300

Probably too much to ask for.
Dec 8 2013 3:02AM
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T.L.
Posts: 4729 - Karma: 3,008
Hey Liberty,

Lib Tech kinda did it for snowboards. 

http://www.lib-tech.com/2013/02/25/lib-techs-feature-closed-snowboard/

http://youtu.be/V2q7F0Sy3FI?t=4m29s
Dec 9 2013 5:57PM
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Lemuel
Posts: 14486 - Karma: 10,635
I can't imagine a lizzie designed with rocker. It would be way to soft and squirrly at such a short length. Lizzies rocker in no time because they are so soft.

I basically want someone to build the Nordica Zero again, idk why they stopped making it.
Dec 9 2013 6:14PM
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last_tango
Posts: 2635 - Karma: 2,665
the turn initiation was really weird, felt dead when turning them, and they were destroyed after 10 days. Was not MY style of ski at all but there is a cult following for them.
Dec 9 2013 9:07PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
i had 2nd year lizzies and did not think they were that soft, i think they were a pretty good medium stiffness. i had invaders the next year, and those things were absolute noodles. personally i think the shirt length and medium (imo) stiffness of the lizzies would be awesome with some rocker.
Dec 10 2013 2:18PM
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Belzebub
Posts: 451 - Karma: 812
95-105 waist
Even medium flex
18-20 m radius
2 cm setback
30% rocker in the tip, 60% flat, 30% rocker in the tail
Big splay, elliptical rocker
Hollowtech/honeycomb/??? in tip and tail to reduce swing weight
A bit of taper
Sidewall
Bright neon bases, simple top sheets
Dec 10 2013 2:32PM
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Lemuel
Posts: 14486 - Karma: 10,635
I have 09 Lizzies and my 07 invaders feel like 2x4's in comparison.
Dec 10 2013 10:21PM
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corski
Posts: 505 - Karma: 319
Definitely something softer.
I find a soft ski is just a lot more fun overall and I find it's still hard to noodle out on big jumps.
Another plus to a softer ski in regards to sales is you will probably profit more. The in thing right now in my opinion is butters etc. look at adam delorme, corey vanular, phil casabon, etc etc. they are all doing butters and everyone loves it i.e. everyone wants to buy soft skis so they can butter like them too
Dec 10 2013 11:02PM
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DrunkRandy
Posts: 189 - Karma: 171
Just please a 184 length
Dec 13 2013 1:14AM
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patt.
Posts: 598 - Karma: 1,272
Will we be seeing this ski in the SIA? Also like said before please make it in a longer length like 184!
Jan 20 2014 6:42PM
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ABalls
Posts: 2091 - Karma: 3,754
Cambered skis have so much more pop... Besides that
1.90-95 mm waist...
2. Some serious early rise
3. Low swing weight and sidewall construction so I don't destroy them in a week
4. A fat edge
5. Symmetrical twin tip
6. A simple neon top sheet and base so they can be spotted
7. Stiffer flex underfoot and medium flex in tip and tail
8. Camber for the added pop
9. $300-$400 would be awesome too
Jan 20 2014 8:11PM
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srg_bchkv
Posts: 200 - Karma: 170
There was some info on their site. New new ski is called the Transfer, it's a full camber park and pipe ski.
Jan 20 2014 11:57PM
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MartianMan
Posts: 1101 - Karma: 2,099
That goes against pretty much what everyone on this thread asked for...
Jan 21 2014 12:06AM
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ABalls
Posts: 2091 - Karma: 3,754
Most of the posts were unreasonable anyways. Hopefully they have something a bit wider but asking for a park ski to be manufactured at 105-110mm is ridiculous.
Jan 21 2014 12:09AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
by unreasonable you mean progressive and fun as fuck. and by 105-110 being ridiculous you must mean ridiculously good.

really, who gives any ounce of a fuck if liberty makes a 80-95 waist cambered park ski? i sure as shit dont, theres an endless amount of good options for a normal park ski out there, whats one more?

the advantage of being a smaller company is that you dont have to appeal to the masses, because the masses will never buy a ski from you, they buy from the big guys who make skis that work for everyone. small companies need to be progressive and take some risks to stand out above the rest. if a small company makes a ski just like one from salomon, im gonna buy salomon because they're proven, you know its a good product, and you dont have to deal with any of the risks of buying from a small, somewhat unproven company.
Jan 21 2014 3:06AM
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Nicko1981
Posts: 527 - Karma: 180
1) Original request was to fill in the survey, not post on the thread about what you wanted in a park ski; so maybe a reason the finished product was not what was posted about here.

2) Not just NS members filled in the survey, so input came from all over the world with a variety of types of skier giving their preferences.

3) If you want a wider, symetrical, rockered ski; wait for the full range to be announced and there may be another option for you (but it may be too wide). Or there's the Antigen.
Jan 21 2014 8:24AM
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hippi3773
Posts: 363 - Karma: 274
Well here's my checklist of things I'd really like to see in a ski
- Fully Symmetrical (This includes the flex of the ski)
- Has a waist between 92mm-96mm
- Try and design a 5 dimension ski (I might be wrong but I feel having 5 dimensions in the other skis I see on the market are accountable for it's low swing weight but good stability).
- A turning radius of around 15 would be awesome to make it feel nice and agile.
- Uses your poplar/ bamboo core. I find those woods to be the most lightweight and poppy.
- Has Carbon Kevlar Strings run in a zig-zag pattern throughout the ski for maximum pop.
- 2.5mm steel edges.
- I want no camber underfoot and just rockered tail and tip (always helps not to catch on switch-ups on rails)
- Have a nice race base on it so you can just rip at high speeds.
- Have the flex in the tip and the tails be soft to medium but more on the soft side.
Well this is all I got. Not to be biased about anything but this was the ski I was planning on trying to build but after a few financial hits (I'm 17 and don't quite have the money for everything I need and no connections to get it to build this and don't have the technology to) I couldn't. If you make this ski I can guarantee you two things. This ski will rip. I will buy it. On another note I really hope my feedback helps in the design process at least a little. Just knowing some of my thought went into the making of the ski would awesome.


Jan 21 2014 9:01AM
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joshua
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 1,280
El Dente is pretty close to this I think?
Jan 21 2014 9:03AM
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ABalls
Posts: 2091 - Karma: 3,754
A ski that wide and fully rockered wouldn't perform well on the ice coast. It would be amazing in slush but we don't have that luxury out here. But I was wrong, 105-110 would be fun, just not practical.
Jan 21 2014 11:51AM
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srg_bchkv
Posts: 200 - Karma: 170
Pretty much everything I'd want in a ski too.


Jan 21 2014 12:21PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
i think thats the point of a ski like this, their entire lineup is practical, they have good park skis already. i just feel like with something like this they can afford to get a little crazy with the design and try something different.
plus, i feel like it might actually be pretty popular, A LOT of people ski fat skis in the park, especially out west, but there hasnt been one truly fat park specific ski, they're using skis designed to excel in powder and all mountain and making it work in the park. i know if i had an option fpr a good fat park specific ski id buy it, but it doesnt exist.

and i think you might underestimate how well big rocker skis do on ice, my hellbents and ep's were awesome on icy groomers, having that smaller contact patch underfoot means your weight is concentrated in a much smaller area rather than spread out through the whole ski, so it allows the edges to really dig in hard and carve like crazy, the rocker only becomes a problem if your like full on race mode bombing the shit out of groomers laying down GS carves. which i dont think most people with a rockered park ski care to do.

I still say hellbents were the best park ski's ive had. i learned some of my techiest tricks on them, and they just completely opened up the possibilities of how you can ski a park.
Jan 21 2014 1:11PM
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ABalls
Posts: 2091 - Karma: 3,754
You have a good point, is would like to see a wider park ski too. Right now I'm on halo 2's so it's not like I'm riding a toothpick and they do pretty well but that's due to the camber underfoot.

When I say there is ice out here I don't mean icy groomers I literally mean a sheet of ice. Over the last few weeks the temps have gone from 50 to 0 frequently which tends to create a hockey rink style environment. However, if this 105-110mm park ski has camber underfoot and rocker in the tip and tail ( and I mean serious rocker) then I would definitely buy a pair.
Jan 21 2014 1:17PM
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N.L.
Posts: 2420 - Karma: 2,744
if you frech fry when you are supposed to pizza, you are gonna have a bad time. give the kids what they want!
first video of the transfer looked like no flex
Apr 16 2014 11:28AM
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moosevision
Posts: 140 - Karma: 214
Why don't you idiots just buy pow skis damn
Apr 16 2014 11:07PM
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moosevision
Posts: 140 - Karma: 214
Ohh the rocker craze! Remember when snowboarding invented rocker went balls to the wall for it realized it didn't work and are now shifting back to camber!? Liberty make a park ski not a pow ski. I'm sick of all these soft ass rocker dumb park skis. Build a ski that's stiff stable small and nimble. 100% camber because edge hold is cool and pop is nice 88mm waist because shifting from edge to edge quick is awesome and reducing swing weight is kinda important and a medium flex because butters are fun but flexing out isn't! Make it durable. Go crazy 4mm edges, extra think base, simple solid core, hard long lasting top sheet, tip and tail rivets, and some beefy sidewalls. Make a ski that you can carve like a racer with something that's quick. All black race base because black p-text is the fastest and hardest ( really it's true ) with a quick side cut to help snake in and out of features. Make a ski that charges and is bombproof. All this rocker bull crap and pointless tech in skis is getting annoying just make a simple, practical, durable ski.
Apr 16 2014 11:22PM
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MartianMan
Posts: 1101 - Karma: 2,099
m00seRemember when snowboarding invented rocker


no
Apr 17 2014 12:32AM
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moosevision
Posts: 140 - Karma: 214
MartianManno


Yeah you know what you're right! Lib-Tech never invented banana tech it's all a myth
Apr 17 2014 8:08AM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
m00seYeah you know what you're right! Lib-Tech never invented banana tech it's all a myth


McConkey borrowed the idea from water skis. Then the Spatula was born.
Correct me if I'm wrong though
Apr 17 2014 11:57AM
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