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What do you look for in a good edit?

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spushkin
Posts: 50 - Karma: 67
Hey,

So I am slowly adjusting from editing gameplay (i know im a nerd) to editing ski clips.
I have made a few attempts, but to be honest I don't like how they turned out.

So what do you look for in a good edit?

Any suggestions would be appreciated :)

Also, I have always used AE5 for editing, but is Adobe Premiere better? & what is a good first camera. I have a GoPro, but GoPro is kind of mainstream and to be honest I don't want to use a GoPro.
Dec 1 2013 7:32PM
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cheener12
Posts: 2881 - Karma: 5,884
film vx, you won't
Dec 1 2013 9:04PM
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Lou.
Posts: 1787 - Karma: 3,876
Ok good question.

Id say dslr all the way. Get a t3i tokina 11 16 and a glidecam or glidecam knock off like the flycam if youre tight on cash. For editing I'd say that premiere is better then ae. Ae is good for doing special effects, 3d stuff, stabilizing, and color correcting. Butfor the majority of the edit I'd say go with premiere.

Music is key. Dont copy other people's use of edits. Dont use songs like sail etc. Try and use something nobody else has used. For example tommy wallnutz and kyle decker used a frankie vallie song in the wallisch project.

Obviously you can have the best editing and filming and song in the world and if the skiing sucks it is the equivalent of putting a piece of kindergarten macaroni art in a $100000 gold frame.

Sorry about the misorganized blob of info. Im on mobile.

But anyway I hope I helped. But really you can still do fine work with a gopro there are even ways you can take out the fisheye. But it all comes down to practice. Get out and shoot your friends as much as possible. Make sure to have fun during the proccess
Dec 1 2013 9:42PM
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gravel
Posts: 5518 - Karma: 42,200
Well some pointers for you would be to get premiere. After Effects is awesome for anything that needs animation or tracking, but shouldn't be used as an editor. I'd recommend getting premiere.

A good edit has:
- Good balance of great filming and great editing
- Little things are tuned out: no black frames, timeline is 24fps ideally, everything just looks clean
- No editing overkill
- It's CREATIVE - that's the biggest one. showing something new.
Dec 2 2013 1:39AM
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spushkin
Posts: 50 - Karma: 67
The problem with 24 fps is that if I use Time-Remapping for slow-mo its absolute shit. Same with twixtor, so I'm stuck there.
Dec 20 2013 9:59AM
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gravel
Posts: 5518 - Karma: 42,200
I guess I phrased that poorly. I edit in a 60fps timeline and export to 24fps.
Dec 20 2013 10:11AM
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spushkin
Posts: 50 - Karma: 67
Oh okay. Do you know anywhere where I can get some free footage? My clips aren't very good.
Dec 20 2013 10:20AM
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gravel
Posts: 5518 - Karma: 42,200
Maybe COC's vimeo still has a bunch of clips up that were raw from a contest this summer. Otherwise I'd recommend that you'd just go out and shoot!
Dec 20 2013 10:32AM
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lIllI
Posts: 1255 - Karma: 1,986
Compose your shots like an arrangement of two-dimensional shapes. If it can't be expressed in basic shapes, it isn't worth expressing. Try focusing on the edges of the frame more than the center to change your perspective.

Editing on the beat draws attention to itself and generally looks tacky and sloppy. Audio cuts/changes should not sync with shot cuts, if ever so slightly.

Remember, you're pointing a rectangle at something. Let the skier travel across the frame in a deliberate and justified fashion; don't just keep them in the center.

Take into account the surroundings of the skier and let the mood and shape of those surroundings dictate your technique. If every shot is a close up of a trick with the skier in the dead center, the video ends up looking like a screensaver without any context.
Dec 20 2013 4:00PM
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gravel
Posts: 5518 - Karma: 42,200
While I think you made some eloquent points, I don't agree with the majority of this.

Especially editing to the beat, or at least the mood/speed of the music can work very well. If you disregard the beat and rythm, the video can be too disconnected from the audio. I think there is a point between being to involved in audio cuts with video cuts that becomes forceful as you imply, but I also think there's a balance between the two that can prove great results.

Also, I think you make the type of filming too formulaeic and regimented. Part of filming is the practice and experience in gaining a personal syle. I'm sure Shane McFalls does very little of what you mentioned above and his videos are among the most widely recognized videos in skiing (LTC).

Basically, I think you're just trying to put too many rules on it.
Dec 20 2013 5:24PM
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lIllI
Posts: 1255 - Karma: 1,986
Not so much rules, more so implying that the videographer should be cognizant of their actions rather than simply "getting the shot."

As for editing, what I mean is syncing cuts right on the beats as a formula is incredibly rigid and two-dimensional. Editing itself should have its own cadence and flow; it should be musical, as well as aesthetically complimentary to the audio. I'm not saying editing should be sporadic or completely out of sync with the overall style of the edit. I'm saying that randomly cutting a single gesture to the beat is usually counterintuitive to the aims of the videographer, when all is said and done.
Dec 21 2013 12:54PM
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gravel
Posts: 5518 - Karma: 42,200
Fair enough, and you have a very well articulated point. I looked at your videos and saw your videography reel for 2013, which I remember watching a few months ago and sharing it with my friend because I loved some of the things with it. Rewatching it again, I totally see what you mean when you don't sync the cuts right on the beat, and really really really think that you executed the pace of the video in respect to the music quite well. Looking at my own stuff, I see exactly how that can be so formulaic. So even though I disagreed with you at first, I actually must concede to say that I respect and agree with your point, and will try to integrate that technique in my own videos.

Thanks and cheers!
Dec 21 2013 1:08PM
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Wheat
Posts: 375 - Karma: 1,633
The replys in this thread probably have the most gramatically correct replys ever.
Dec 21 2013 3:29PM
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gravel
Posts: 5518 - Karma: 42,200
Right up until there.
Dec 21 2013 4:09PM
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elinde
Posts: 1466 - Karma: 3,042
Why not 30 fps? Just wondering why it would make a difference.
Dec 21 2013 5:50PM
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gravel
Posts: 5518 - Karma: 42,200
It is more cinematic IMO. When people have edits in 30fps it looks too "raw"/straight from the camera. 24fps really just refines the appearance and makes it cinematic as I previously stated. That being said, 30fps works well for "raw" styles like LTC and hoodcrew stuff.
Dec 21 2013 6:18PM
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lIllI
Posts: 1255 - Karma: 1,986
Thanks man!

Editing is an incredibly nuanced and psychological art form in itself (pick up one of the many theoretical books about it; you'd be surprised). I like to compare it to music because sometimes the cuts fall on the beat, and sometimes they're syncopated to emphasize the difference for temporal effect. My point is that instead of looking at cuts in terms of whether or not they fall on the beat, think of cuts as having their own rhythm that parallels the visual. Like music, editing is defined by the dissonances

By all means this is just my opinion, and I always encourage people to exercise artistic license and disagree with me if they can justify doing so. I just thought I'd provide another way of looking at the puzzle.
Dec 22 2013 5:32PM
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raull
Posts: 384 - Karma: 2,232
i look for a couple key things in a good edit.

1. the edit (no matter how short) should tell some sort of story. even if its mostly just ski porn type stuff, it should always be a little bit more.
2. camera work: NO SHAKING.
3. good music - avoid the temptation to use the same genre every time because this can get boring. try to use music that fits the feeling of the edit.
4. Keep it simple - dont over edit. fade in, fade out. no unnecessary filters and transitions. and if your going to name your edit or write anything on the screen, spend some time on it, dont just use the first font offered.
Dec 22 2013 10:56PM
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MLJ
Posts: 1849 - Karma: 3,649
How do you export at a different framerate to what you filmed at? Is it possible to do this in FCP X, or should I learn to use AE, because I have the whole adobe suite anyway.
Dec 23 2013 10:41AM
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j-cal
Posts: 693 - Karma: 3,295
Great view. I find since i was a musician first that it is very hard for me to edit off beat. I find myself using the timeline like a music bar. Everything is in sync with the natural bpm of the song. I think i need to try some of these wise words your talking about. Thank you for the insight. Stoked to edit my next video. I need to focus on the rythym of the video.
Dec 23 2013 10:53AM
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MLJ
Posts: 1849 - Karma: 3,649
I personally like to first listen to the song a couple times and get the feel of it, and then edit with the feel. For example sunny and jibby stuff I have off beat, but darker and harsher urban is more on beat, especially in those shots where you try something a couple times and fail, and then land some gnarly trick on your 4th try. Im going to try to sync stuff more sparingly thanks to IIIII's advice though, thanks!
Dec 23 2013 10:59AM
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lIllI
Posts: 1255 - Karma: 1,986
I think I've found a good analogy: imagine a song where the guitar and bass could only play notes at the exact same time as the drum hits. I would sound pretty jarring and robotic, wouldn't it? Instead the instruments all have their own "wiggle room" under the context of playing in a single tempo and rhythm in order to paint a more three dimensional sonic picture. I feel video editing is no different.
Dec 23 2013 2:49PM
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