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Boot/Liner Question

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elm.
Posts: 1492 - Karma: 13,497
So i recently bought a pair of FT and the intuition liner was cramping my toes. I swapped in my old nordica boot liner for it which is a little bigger. I haven't skied with them on yet.

I'm wondering if this at all hurts the performance of the boot, or if anyone else has done this and found success.
Thanks
Nov 25 2013 8:06PM
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50Kal
Posts: 2828 - Karma: 5,373
Did you go to a Bootfitter?
Nov 25 2013 8:09PM
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elm.
Posts: 1492 - Karma: 13,497
so i got the nordica's fitted but bought the FT's of NS.

I skied the FT's on saturday with the intuition liner, they were great, but my toes just cramped a little.
Nov 25 2013 8:11PM
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Blake.P
Posts: 9894 - Karma: 3,585
thats your problem. they havent been heat molded, you probably dont have footbeds, and the boots probably just dont fit you right.

Nov 25 2013 9:02PM
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elm.
Posts: 1492 - Karma: 13,497
so is using the nordica liner in the FT's fine? It feels more comfortable than the nordica boot altogether (and stiffer which is the reason why I bought the FT's)
Nov 25 2013 11:44PM
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40oz.
Posts: 1758 - Karma: 555
I mean it can't really hurt anything if you can get them in the boot and buckled up, but if your toes are cramped with the intuition liner then the boots are obviously too small for you.
Nov 26 2013 11:11AM
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Bertrand
Posts: 423 - Karma: 457
Nope. Different volume liners in the same shell have drastic effects. For the OP, his intuition liners are probably not too packed out, which, depending on the shell fit you have, is necessary to even ski a run with mild comfort.

OP, go to a shop, pony up $30 bucks, and have them double toe cap your foot for the molding process. If that doesn't work, try the other liners. If there isn't any slop, don't see any reason why you shouldn't use a different liner.

Use whatever feels best. When you go skiing next time, bring both liners, ski a run on both.
Nov 26 2013 11:22AM
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40oz.
Posts: 1758 - Karma: 555
That's not even close to being correct, when you buy new boots and get them fitted of course they are tight because they aren't packed out, but the toe area never gets super packed out so if it is tight its always going to be tight. They are the wrong size shell for the length of your feet if the toes are crammed.
Nov 26 2013 11:27AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,893
Well, that's not exactly true either. In an Intuition liner, there is dense foam surrounding the entire foot in a constant thickness. That means the toe thickness is the same as the heel thickness (unless there are J-bars or something similar added to the heel). When you properly mold an Intuition liner, toe caps are placed over the toes which does 2 things: 1- they push the foam away from the toes, creating more toe space and 2- the drive the foot into the heel pocket which makes a well formed heel pocket and also creates more toe room.

So, if the OP has not properly molded his Intuitions liners then I would definitely get that done first before changing liners. The fit will for sure be improved.
Nov 26 2013 11:42AM
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40oz.
Posts: 1758 - Karma: 555
Okay but the only way the toe's will be "packed out" is if they are molded with toe caps, right? It won't just happen like the rest of the liner does over time with skiing.  And even so if your toes are crammed in the front of the boot can packing out the liner in the toe area really make a significant enough  improvement for the toes to still not be crammed?
Nov 26 2013 11:56AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,893
It for sure depends on if his toes are actually "crammed" in there. It sounds like the shell is correct since other liner provides a good fit. But, as an Intuition liner breaks in, toe space will develop because toes will push into the Ultralon foam and because the heel will move rearward into the heel pocket. The best way is to get them molded, since it is more controlled and accurate. This will also happen as he skis them, it will just take time and a bit of grunting to do it. In my experience, skiing a non-molded Intuition liner is a waste of time and money. Pay to get it molded, it will be tons more betterer.
Nov 26 2013 12:02PM
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Bertrand
Posts: 423 - Karma: 457
He said that the Nordica liners felt better in the toes than the intuitions. The nordica liner probably has less material in the toe box than the intuition, giving him some more room in the shell. If he could get the intutitions to be thinner(heatmold with a toe cap), it would hopefully solve his toe cramping issue.

I'm talking about solving top and side pressure, which, depending on the thickness of the liner, is easy to fix. If you're talking about like, curled toes, then yeah, thats definitely a shell thing.

You can definitely pack out the toe area of a liner. My dalbello liners are paper thin up front(not exaggerating).
Nov 26 2013 12:03PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7147 - Karma: 17,493
No the liners will still pack out in the toe just by riding. But it will be much faster to get them molded correctly in the first place. With regard to packing out the toes making much difference yeah it will but maybe not how you think. The action of molding with toe caps does not only help mold the toe, but because the toe cap makes your foot bigger, the foot is pushed back further into the heel pocket giving the feeling of more toe room, even though the space has actually be created in the heel.
Nov 26 2013 12:04PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
Bring them to a bootfitter, they can probably rebake them with a bigger toe cap on to give you more toe box room.
Nov 26 2013 12:04PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627
Bring them to a bootfitter, they can probably rebake them with a bigger toe cap on to give you more toe box room.
Nov 26 2013 12:05PM
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elm.
Posts: 1492 - Karma: 13,497
your picture makes it seem like you know what you're talking about
Nov 26 2013 12:52PM
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40oz.
Posts: 1758 - Karma: 555
I was talking curled toes more of, thanks for clearing everything up!
Nov 26 2013 1:06PM
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Dr.Dickless
Posts: 2620 - Karma: 1,392
Thirty bucks for a remold!? Your shop is screwing you
Nov 26 2013 1:19PM
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40oz.
Posts: 1758 - Karma: 555
Mine charges this too, what does yours charge?
Nov 26 2013 1:24PM
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SteezyEvok
Posts: 290 - Karma: 109
$30 bucks is normal for what I've seen. Don't be a cheap bitch
Nov 26 2013 2:45PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,893
If the shop knows what they are doing, that is a bargain. Normal price is $40-45. Making sure the liner is properly heated and the foot is properly padded and the boot is properly setup make all the difference in the world, rather than simply tossing a liner on a heat stack and hoping for the best. You just spent good money on a customizable liner, make sure you get the most out of it by properly getting it fit.
Nov 26 2013 4:50PM
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Cotter
Posts: 2546 - Karma: 849
40-45$ really? My shop does it for free, and you can do it as many times as you want. I think that might be providing you bought the boots at the shop, but aslong as they recognize you as a previous customer it's free.
Nov 26 2013 4:55PM
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rach
Posts: 917 - Karma: 507
Should have gone to a bootfitter. Not too late; are the liners molded? Do you have a footbed in them?

If you won't go to a bootfitter, I would just suck it up. Intuition's have a longer packout-period than a stock EVA foam liner, so it may take some time to free up that space around your toes. Some discomfort in the toe is normal in a new boot, in most cases, you will gain performance from it.
Nov 26 2013 8:13PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,893
If you buy your boots from a shop, then usually this is included in a boot-fit guarantee. But, the OP did not buy his boots from a shop, so it would be normal and expected that he pay for the fitting service.
Nov 27 2013 4:35AM
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DowseBigamy
Posts: 113 - Karma: 147
I picked up some drop kicks pretty cheap a week or so back. Until now I've been skiing Krypton Pros. When I initially tried on the drop kicks at home, they felt super tight, so I swapped in the liner from my Krypton pro. That liner, with a custom footbed in there too felt great in the full tilts! At the same time, as a test, I put the intuition from the drop kicks, into the Kryptons, and couldn't even get my foot in. The intuitions are super thick!
Then I swapped the liners back into their respective boots, and molded the intuitions myself (at work, in a ski shop), with toecaps and my footbed. My custom footbeds raise my foot up a bit, so at the moment, with them in, theres a lot of pressure on top of my foot. But my toes have space now (left foot felt pretty tight).

Skied in the drop kicks for the first time today, and not gonna lie they were pretty uncomfortable for a while, but after an hour or so they improved. This was just for a couple hours, so I didn't get a true feel for them, but they'll mold more if needs be, there's tons of foam there still. If it doesn't improve I'll swap the liner over from the kryptons, because I know that's currently more comfortable.

So, long story short, yes, you can swap liners over. No problem. As long as it's for the same boot size.



Nov 27 2013 1:23PM
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elm.
Posts: 1492 - Karma: 13,497
That's the answer i was looking for. Thanks a lot
Nov 27 2013 1:34PM
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