Western Black Rhino declared extinct

There are a lot of commodities that I know someone will buy if I get my hands on.  That doesn't mean there is a standing order or demand.  Say I stumbled across a package containing a kilo of pure herioin just sitting on the sidewalk.  (Maybe if it was coke I could sell for somewhat close to what its worth but not H.)  Im a broke dude, am I not going to pick something up that I know could be worth 10-20 grand even though I have absolutely noone to give me that 10-20 grand for it?  Even if I sell that 20k kilo of H to my weed dealer for 100 bucks I still come out ahead and better off than if I didn't take it.

Thats the best analogy I can make to the poachers.

The guys who kill a Rhino are not necessarily part of a western/asian conspiracy.  They just might be a desperate dude who knows that the Rhino is of value due to its scarcity and if they kill it somewhere, somehow, they'll get a couple bucks for it.


90% of the items poached off of endangered species don't end up in the home of a rich Westerner.  They'll be in a stack of elephant tusks in some rural village where they are waiting for someone to come by who will trade them for whatever.


Its not that you are wrong completely its just you are inaccurately judging the outside demand for these items.  Most people don't want them there isn't a huge market.  Most animal parts that poachers take stay in Africa and the animal was killed for nothing, some rich guy doesn't even get his souvenir.


THats the best I can do to rebut your argument that Africans are blameless.  I blame the Africans 90% and westerners 10% for poaching.  You clearly are of the opinion that its the reverse and westerners are 90% of the problem and the Africans themselves are about 10.  In the past 50+ years ago you would be right but in 2013 you're wrong.

Actually you're wrong.

maybe your argument would be valid if you actually explained yourself...

Dude, i do work in the cargo industry, we see this shit all the time, last week it was an elephant skin bible... Your beef is with humans... The only reason some africans poach them is because that's where they are.

What about bison?? oh wait americans Nearly killed them all and wiped them off the face of the earth for their prized fur. Therefore I hate Americans.. Biggest shitiest argument I've ever heard.

I could be wrong but i'm pretty sure the head of the nra or someone high up went to africa to kill an elephant... Therefore I hate americans... Another stupid shitty argument.

Some people are extremely greedy, therefore take advantage of their surroundings.

The Rhinos didnt see it coming due to having poor eye sight!

And he just did that for fun, not for money... Therefore I hate American's... Shitty argument number 2.5

This isn't about hunting.  Americans also wiped a race of people off the planet it wasn't just animals. 


Many of the animal parts that are poached in 2013 are not leaving these villages.  Obviously some will but you are implying that its a booming black market currently.  Its really not having ivory is not in fashion anymore.  There will be exceptions but the outside demand for those animal parts is not what it used to be.

But the cocksuckers have not stopped the poaching and still kill these animals for little to no financial gain.

Its no different than the fact that slavery is still very rampant in parts of Africa.

That continent is stuck in the stone age.  Even Libya and Egypt are 100+ years behind us. 


I like black people here in Vegas I can honeslty say that your average white person is a way bigger lowlife than your average black person.  When I am categorically saying the people in Africa are scumbags there is zero racial motivation to that opinion, and while I might not be talking about everyone literally I am comfortable making my broad generalization given what happens over there.


Politics in Africa in 2013= 2 tribes with guns fighting each other and the stronger of the 2 in turn enslaving the loser.

Not to mention given Africa's immense natural resources if they were AT ALL CIVILIZED it would be the most up and coming emerging economic market in the world.  It still is to a degree even with the extreme dysfunction and the fact that slavery and other unsavory practices are still very common.  Concepts like human rights are totally non existant outside of SA where there's white people to paint as the villians...in South Africa they manage to advocate for equal treatment for all, isn't it funny that basically doesn't happen anywhere else on that continent?

Go watch Gun, Germs, and Steel and get back to me champ.

Or read it.

I read your post and instantly had a flashback to freshman year and didn't know why. Then I remembered that was a book. Cool

99.9% of species that have been on the earth have become extinct.

They probably just went to space.

there is a lot of stupidity in this thread.

There's a movie of that book?  Its a famous book I have read it a while ago.  I can actually use it to show you why Africans are fucking idiots.

GG+S arguments work well for explaining why Europeans ran train on American Indians but outside of that its flawed.

GG+S says that Europeans or Euro-asians (the book conveniently lumps asians in with Europeans where it fits the argument and doesn't where it doesn't) shifting to an agrarian society from hunter gatherers earlier than everyone else allowed them to progress faster because they weren't transient and lived closer to each other and in larger societies which in turn spurred progress and gave them guns and the best weapons before everyone else.  They also developed and became immune to diseases which they would unleash on the conquered people, weakening them and enabling a small number of Europeans to control/subjigate/wipe out much larger numbers of indigenous people. (Explaining why a massive number of American Indians was wiped out and controlled by very few white Europeans.)



But the book goes to great lengths to avoid giving any credit to westerners, basicially stating they were in the right place at the right time and any cultures would have progressed if given those advantages.


Which is probably complete shit.  Look prior to the ancient greeks there were civilizations and cultures.  In ancient civilizations prior to the greeks there probably was a lot of progress or development.  However what spurred progress would be powerful warring nations.  And powerful warring nations are what impeded progress the most in ancient societies.  Someone could have invented electricity in 30,000BC but its not like it would have mattered if a  Ghengis Khan type came along and wiped their culture out.

All progress made by African cultures over the 10s of thousands of years people have lived there have been negated by warfare and fighting.  When British Colonists arrived in Africa they literally said that Africa in 1800 was as civilized as Western Europe was around 10,000BC.

Other cultures and nations have regressed as well so its not just Africans, however the behavior that makes Africa a disfuntional backwards place has never stopped or changed on that continent.  African societies/cultures/nations have never grouped or worked together.  AND THEY STILL DON'T.  And its not the white persons africans coninutally faught, enslaved each other, and simply never progressed at all on their own just because Europeans were growing wheat and ride horses and living like people while Africans were still cavemen.

Japan and China are two countries that greatly contributed to human progress on this planet.  But like the Africans those cultures did extremely stupid things to slow their progress and development down (and allowing Europe to surpass them which was their own fault.)  Both of them isolated themselves from the rest of the world right when they were rapidly progressing, in turn hindering their progression.  China banned ocean bound vessels for centuries.  In the late 1500s early 1600s a full century before Columbus Japan was trading rapidly with the west and I think there were hundreds of thousands of Westerners living there.  (Mostly Portugese they were literally the ONLY society with the balls to travel far distances the ocean prior to about 1500.)   But Japan was stupid and literally closed their country off from the rest of the planet for over 100 years.


Figures a moron like you only watched the movie and didn't read the book.  Not to mention you can't think for yourself and have to cite a flawed and overrated and academically shat on piece of work to attempt to make yourself look smart.  BUt your reference to that book made it easier for me to shit on Africa so thanks.

*100 years after Cbus

I mean I've read the book and have a pretty good understanding of human geographical history but if you want to go with calling me a moron thats cool too. Everything you are saying has absolutely no scholarly backing and is purely your opinion, feel free to give me some sources and evidence to back up your ideas, that or go with ad hominem attacks, those seems to work well too!

Quoting for emphasis

tahoerondo you must get really good blow

 Hey its the internet just returning serve on the insults.  *I think it was you earlier on you called me a fucking idiot, true apologies if it wasn't!

Im not going to google random books or anything even though I would like to look up the exact quotes about British colonizers estimating Africa was a good 5-10k years behind them I don't feel like it.

Its not really an opinion that African societies have never really joined or worked together.  The continent is a place of continually warring tribes, and that is why it was always so backwards, and its not the fault of other cultures or people (although political correctness requires you to lay the blame elsewhere and not on them if you don't want to be racist.)

And as I explained about Asia they were pretty much just as advanced and cultured as Europe but developed a policy of isolationism  when Europe developed the policy of expansion and exploration.  (I should not need to quote or reference that its not an opinion.) 

Japan realized their mistakes of isolationism and they were desperate to acquire colonies in the same manner that European nations did.  WW2 happened because Japan was about to EFFORTLESSLY conquer and subjugate ALL of Asia and noone wanted that to happen.  China put up a pretty friggen pathetic fight against Japan in both Sino-Japanese wars.  I understand them losing the second since they were communist by then and its not like the communist Soviets wanted to fight Germany at the end of WW1 they bent over pretty bad at BRest Litovsk in 1918.  However in the 1890s the Quin Dynasty should really not have lost the first Sino Japanese war when they fought over Korea and Japan won.  And a few decades later basically the same time that HItler was running through Western Europe conquering it at will can you really blame Japan for deciding it was time to conquer the rest of Asia?   I don't blame Japan for starting WW2 with us, even though I'd have much rather been a POW of the Germans.

Western Imperialism was a good thing for the planet.  I am a British Citizen through my dad and I am extremely proud that after  Britain losts its crown jewel the American colonies we basically responded by conquering the planet :).

You really don't understand how the world works do you? It's western continents like America, Canada that have led to poaching. They get paid to poach because it is one of the few choices to make a living to support their own families. So think about it a bit more before thinking of some bullshit reason to justify being an asshole.

Good. Fuckin rhinos shitting on my lawn.

how big of a trust fund do you have?

Africa was the sight of the greatest conquest of any area by Europeans at one time. Germany, Italy, Spain, Britain, France, and Denmark all tried to grab as much land as they could as fast as they could and in turn divided tribes and groups of people that otherwise may not have been friendly, but would not have annihilated each other, against each other deliberately to create an easier to conquer continent. However Euros did this everywhere, including the Americas, but American's were so susceptible to disease their cultures fell apart long before they could be turned against each other.

Sadly noone I am related to is rich.  (Do have a couple pretty accomplished British relatives who are sort minor celebs but we're all poor.)


If I had any fucking trust fund I'd be pretty wealthy though, I have a business and know how to make money but Im poor.  :(

Being culturally rich doesn't count for much.

Plenty is true of what you write but Africa was a very easy place to conquer due to the fact that the people didn't collectively stand and fight the white men.  Reasons for which you know why there wasn't going to be one African army collectively fighting for the continent of course and basically wherever the colonizers went there were multiple tribes or factions in the vicinity and it was easy to play them off against each other and make the conquest relatively simple.  As you say Europeans chopped it up like a pie. 

And of course there will be repercussions from creating boundaries out of your own convenience and not in accordance of the indigenous population.  Your right that the effects of this can still be felt.  BUt that shouldn't excuse such despicable behavoir as killing endangered species. 




Are Pandas poached in China?  Well obviously it might happen here and there.  BUt is it as widespread as elephant poaching or other poaching that goes on in Africa?  NO WAY.  Part of that has to be attributed to the fact that the behavior of some of the people in Africa is basically akin to that of neanderthals/savages for lack of a better term.

And its 2013 the global outside demand for these animal parts is NOTHING compared to what it used to be but these stupid fucks haven't stopped.


When the colonizers arrived they made the determination that Africa in general was less civilized than ancient Greece. 

I hate how people blow it off like its no big deal....

reposting from reddit != social awareness/conscientiousness

last week you didn't give a fuck about rhinos

99% of all statistics are false....

And I hope you realise no-one has record of these figures since it's the "black market". Still can't quite tell if you're trolling.

All I can gain from this thread is

1. Animals were fine, then once invasion, these animals had a value put on their head.

2. People poach these animals to sell them, or parts of them (according to you they get little to no profit)

3. you hate africans and the japanese, (maybe a little hate from WWII is involved)

4. Africa is a vastly different continent to others, very unstable

5. Everyone here is an expert

6. Everyone is sad

7. End Thread

Dude, I really don't get the point you are trying to make.  Im not allowed to throw a prospective statistic or two out to make a point?

Our society has evolved to see poaching elephants is wrong.  The ivory trade did not used to be a black market operation it was legitimate at one point. A person could have a Rhino tusk in their house and it would be looked at the same way as having a stuffed Swordfish on your wall or a deer head.

But thats not the case now and the demand for these products is no longer high globally.

The social problem of elephant poaching has actually been solved globally in terms of reducing the demand for these items.

The problem has not been solved when it comes to getting the fucking asshole African poachers to stop.



I don't hate the Japanese they are my favorite Asian people with the hottest women and I really like Japanese lesbian teen porn.

I like black people, I dislike Africans but its hard to explain exactly how (and I don't really hate them I just dislike them its OK to dislike people) its sort of the same thing as me disliking people from NYC even though I have plenty of friends from there because I hate their sports teams and its an expensive pain in the ass place to go that I'd never live (see John ROcker) so as it relates to Africans I hate the people and love the animals.  SO basically I just want them all to be eaten by lions and the animals to have the continent to themselves. 

I still don't get how you don't see that if your ancestors never invaded africa, poaching wouldn't have ever been a problem.

And if they hadn't invaded or rather discovered America/USA none of us would be here.

"90% of the items poached off of endangered species don't end up in the home of a rich Westerner.  They'll be in a stack of elephant tusks in some rural village where they are waiting for someone to come by who will trade them for whatever."

How the fuck could anyone know this unless of course they are involved in the black market Trade???? I mean I work for a freight forwarding company, many things seized for containing cites listed species... And that's only the shit we find by accident or by random!!! As i said before, last week it was an elephant skin bible. This morning crocodile skin bags from uncertified crocodiles.

I wonder how many of the African scum poacher men you are talking about are rocking a fake prada crocodile skin bag?

I like rhinos, they are so fun!! Maybe we can use our sciency magic to make more of them. HAHAHA

would that really be such a bad thing? I mean for each of us individually, it might be, but western culture has done a good job fucking up every single continent. Imagine the USA without our sprawling cities, without our cars, roads, planes, clear cut forests, without the ruined ecosystem we have created. If you really care so much about conservation you would see that me, you, and most of us are part of a problem that is just as big as Africans poaching.

Yeah, well you know more about this than me. Ive just seen 60 minutes and know that the poachers carry on poaching even when they can't sell the animal parts.

We agree poaching is a problem.  You were right about demand for these items being the primary cause of poaching.  So for the record I agree completely that its the root cause.

But in terms of fixing the problem of poaching the biggest thing that needed to be done is lower the demands for these items.

And the demand for ivory and other products from endangered species world wide right now in 2013 is as low as one can reasonably expect it to be, I don't realistically see how the demand can get lower than it currently is because the items are not socially acceptable for people to wear or have any longer. 

So to me the biggest cause of the problem has been fixed as much as can be expected.  The secondary and tertiary causes of poaching are Africans doing it because the animal is defenseless and they can (maybe because they think someone else like a rival poacher group will come along and do it if they don't), and because the people who do it are stupid subhuman scum who would and do kill these animals for sport.

Look, Americans don't hunt bald eagles.  I expect Africans to not hunt Rhinos. 

Wouldn't I be racist if I didn't hold them to the same standard right?  It would be pretty racist to say that white people are bad if they endangered species but Africans are OK if they do it since they are too dumb to know any better and are being coerced into it by the white devil?

That racist and bigoted way of thinking regarding this issue and is what I am primarily arguing against, and what you and the other guy are pretty much implying. 


We can go around in circles with what you are trying to say.  I mean I guess this website hates trees and wildlife and even supports the destruction of the rainforest since skiing relies on people going down trails on mountains where poor little innocent trees were killed just for the convenience of big bad skiiers.

Pandas aren't poached in China as much as other animals in Africa because the Chinese government has recovered enough from Europe's selfish imperialism to actually be strong enough to impose and reinforce hunting regulations, unlike sub-saharan Africa where corrupt and weak centralized governments can't even provide basic aid to their citizens because they're still trying to recover from centuries of exploitation by Europeans.

China has never been under European rule.

they might not have technically been, but they were basically Europe's bitch with extraterritoriality, tariff autonomy, etc

Oh you and your fallacies!