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The Bankruptcy of Mammoth

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Goku
Posts: 8119 - Karma: 4,223
Pretty cool video from Powder.
Always new they were hurting but never knew why or how bad.
This really shows the politics of ski areas and why resort conglomerates like Vail, Boyne, and Intrawest are more worried about selling hotel rooms and condos than the actual skiing.

http://www.powdermag.com/the-town/
Oct 4 2013 9:54AM
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snowpocalypse
Posts: 1036 - Karma: 3,525
For another great look into this grab the book
Downhill Slide: Why the Corporate Ski Industry is Bad for Skiing, Ski Towns, and the Environment
This book takes a great look into how and why skiing has turned form your local hill and mom and pop ski shops to what it is today. Mammoth is just the tip of the ice burg so to speak.
Oct 4 2013 10:14AM
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first_rodeo
Posts: 2385 - Karma: 7,781
^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^



i always give my business to small shops and ski hills often

its sad to see how many ski areas in my state have closed since i started skiing
Oct 4 2013 10:42AM
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Heart
Posts: 6156 - Karma: 3,462
Ouch. Sounds like they really got shafted by that agreement.
Oct 4 2013 1:38PM
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Turkelton
Posts: 2829 - Karma: 8,558
They were bankrupt in 2011 am I right? I remember reading about it after the season
Oct 4 2013 1:44PM
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Karma_Police
Posts: 2655 - Karma: 1,628
There's a pretty long thread over at TGR that touches on this a bit. As someone who has skied all over the united states never have I witnessed nearly as many environmental "challenges" as I have here in California with regards to permits, conservation groups, etc...

I guess what I'm saying is that there is endless amounts of terrain in the southern sierras that can't be accessed due to these groups. People think it's best if we just leave it as is. Do you really think a few hundred fucking skiers are going to have an affect on the landscape? I mean fucking TELLURIDE has a god damn airport and they're more environmentally conscious than anyone.

You can call it corporations all you want but the downfall, if you watch the video is not developing the airport in a timely manner because some tree hugging hippie thinks it will cause the environment to go apeshit.

Not only that it also seems like the fuckin' FAA was just a giant troll, which isn't surprising considering it's a government run agency with lots of time on its hands.

Also the economy doesn't help their situation.


Oct 4 2013 7:28PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,459
Man I want some of what you're smoking cuz you're damn delusional. Of course skiers have an impact on the landscape, not to mention the urban-wildlife interface. We clear cut forested areas/animal habitats, replace them with "natural" grass and don't let anything else grow back so we can have groomers on it. Then we disturb the local wildlife with the development and constant human use. Animals lose their homes or have it fragmented, and frequently either die, leave and don't return, or gain bad survival habits like bears dumpster diving. You think animals like a bunch of people disturbing their dens/families by skiing really fast by their dens? Plus, building an airport takes a huge amount of resources and replaces large swathes of land with concrete and buildings.
Oct 4 2013 8:12PM
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IBAM
Posts: 1954 - Karma: 2,351
Amen brotha
Oct 4 2013 9:27PM
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RockNRollNghtClb
Posts: 2013 - Karma: 2,509
fuck ski resorts
Oct 5 2013 11:45AM
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3mania
Posts: 2614 - Karma: 10,380
The Sierra Nevada Range is over 14 million acres. I don't think a 4000 acre ski area is going to have that big of an environmental impact.
Oct 5 2013 12:00PM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
....

Great logic dipshit.
Oct 5 2013 12:03PM
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3mania
Posts: 2614 - Karma: 10,380
Yes I know. Using a tiny percentage of a vast wilderness area for recreation, is quite logical. It's a ski resort not an oil refinery.
Oct 5 2013 12:25PM
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corona
Posts: 12805 - Karma: 32,823
while creating a ski hill in an already protected area or wilderness area that wouldn't be developed anyways is obviously a step backwards environmentally, creating a ski hill close to an urban area or any area that has potential to be developed is actually advantageous. The impact the ski hill has is negligible compared to some of the alternatives, such as clear cutting for housing or mining or many other possible land uses.
Oct 5 2013 12:50PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,459
thats not how it works....
Oct 5 2013 1:22PM
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3mania
Posts: 2614 - Karma: 10,380
I'm not sure where you live, but I'm about 1/2 a mile away from a ski resort and I can assure you that wildlife abound on our mountain. Bear, moose, elk, cougars, and lots of other creatures, that don't seem. to be affected in any way.
Oct 5 2013 1:28PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,459
Breck
Oct 5 2013 2:02PM
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.[sanhedrin].
Posts: 1654 - Karma: 938
The title of this thread is quite misleading. Mammoth ski resort has NOT filed for bankruptcy, just to be clear. The city of Mammoth Lakes opted to enter chapter 11 after being sued by a land developer who felt that the contract between himself and the city of Mammoth Lakes had been breached. As far as I know Mammoth ski resort is doing okay financially. Although two pretty shitty winters in a row may have taken a toll. But that's not what's being discussed here.
Oct 5 2013 2:12PM
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localonvolkls
Posts: 448 - Karma: 90
They pretty much have it back together again now. Its because they invested in land by the airport before the feds approved it and they lost it all. They were going to basically double the size of the town by expanding all the way to the airport with hotels and whatnot which is about 7 miles. That coupled with the shitty 2011-2012 season sent the town over the edge. We made more money in ski school then ever before last year. The mountain and town are doing pretty well now.
Oct 5 2013 2:33PM
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philipc
Posts: 6651 - Karma: 1,286
i believe the quote you are referencing was talking about solely accessing the sierra, meaning backcountry skiing, which wouldnt have a huge impact. also, have you seen the sierra? most of it is high elevation desolate wasteland, not a not of wildlife going on.
Oct 5 2013 4:02PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,459
I grew up skiing Tahoe for 18 years. And no, he was clearly talking about development.
Oct 5 2013 4:14PM
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localonvolkls
Posts: 448 - Karma: 90
Last winter was NOT shitty. We had record profits out of canyon lodge last season. Ironically the lodge roof is leaking into the cafeteria and they're ganna have to do somethin about that shit very soon. the snow was a little below average but december was a beast and we had a decent base all year at main.
Oct 5 2013 4:18PM
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.[sanhedrin].
Posts: 1654 - Karma: 938
Below average snowfall is all I meant. As I mentioned, I could have no way of knowing how the resort is doing financially. California has had two consecutive seasons of below average snowfall, and that usually takes a toll on the industry as a whole.
Oct 5 2013 4:42PM
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localonvolkls
Posts: 448 - Karma: 90
the one year did but then they revamped their marketing strategy and we got some decent storms right when we needed them most. In my opinion it wasnt a terrible season for snow, just from february on was way too dry.
Oct 6 2013 7:37AM
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Karma_Police
Posts: 2655 - Karma: 1,628
Wrong, talking about BC skiing (specifically, heli and cat ops and how we don't fucking have ANY with millions of acres of awesome terrain)

Environmental conservation groups think ALL development is bad, you can't argue that(at least with regards to sierra groups and ANYTHING that people want to do in the mountains).

But go ahead, drink the Koolaid that let's you keep that sierra club sticker on your prius, whatever floats your boat, just don't let it affect businesses to the point of bankruptcy.

I'm sure you're really open to an honest discussion about economics vs environmental impacts when your user name is "thelorax".........

Lastly your comments about clear cutting for ski resorts is taken seriously but you lose a lot of credibility when you say "You think animals like a bunch of people disturbing their dens/families by skiing really fast by their dens". I don't know, perhaps you could ask a bear and report back. Or maybe use the post about percentage of land used logically to realize that it probably has little effect on total animal populations.

Save the earth, stop breathing.

Oct 7 2013 12:58AM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,459
You wanna talk economics vs. environmental impact? Start a business helping businesses save money and reduce their energy consumption like I have and come back to talk to me.
Oct 7 2013 1:07AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51751 - Karma: 163,600
It's been a bad couple years for mountains. So many places have closed down, been sold, or went bankrupt and getting auctioned off.

Snowpark NZ
Echo Mt CO
Whaleback NH
Greek Peak NY
West Mt NY


And I know there are at least a few others I just can't think of them off the top of my head. It's one of those things that if you're struggling, a bad winter or two can really make it tough.
Oct 7 2013 1:55AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51751 - Karma: 163,600
Watched the whole thing. Pretty shitty situation. I liked the way the video was done though. Also different parts made it easy to watch and cook dinner.
Oct 7 2013 2:49AM
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J_Tapper-Norris
Posts: 58 - Karma: 496
Unless you have been spending years in these areas recording the impacts on wildlife and can back your statement with evidence, I don't really think you're in the position to say anything about the matter. Or do you like the blissfulness on ignorance island?
Oct 7 2013 4:20AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51751 - Karma: 163,600
Really helps to make your point.
Oct 7 2013 4:34AM
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NH_OPERATOR
Posts: 1070 - Karma: 2,883
>Counting Whaleback as a 'Mountain'
LOLOLOLOLOL
Oct 7 2013 6:24AM
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.[sanhedrin].
Posts: 1654 - Karma: 938
Agreed! Very nicely produced by powdermagazine.
Oct 7 2013 2:30PM
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closeyetfar11
Posts: 387 - Karma: 1,079
b..but plants breathe in the CO2 we breathe out... shouldn't we keep breathing in order to save the Earth?


Really though, ski are more often than not located on key animal migration routes (elk, bighorn sheep, moose, mtn goats, deer), delicate wetlands, important nesting areas, etc...
Spring skiing impacts hibernating animals like bears and porcupines in the prime of their awakening phase.

If I took a dump in your drinking water and told you "dude. don't worry, that's like .0001% of the water on Earth!"  I'm sure your response would be: "It's a fraction of the total! No worries!".......right?


If there's one thing skiing needs less of it's condos.  We seemed to ski just fine before them..
Oct 7 2013 9:23PM
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closeyetfar11
Posts: 387 - Karma: 1,079
Ske areas*   damnit.

Quite the interesting video though.

Every single member on here should read Downhill Slide.  You'll look at the sport, and your daily/weekly/monthly outings very, very differently. 
Oct 7 2013 9:25PM
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Goku
Posts: 8119 - Karma: 4,223
Everyone interested in Outdoor recreation should read that book so that other industries don't fall into the same situation.
Oct 7 2013 9:34PM
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Karma_Police
Posts: 2655 - Karma: 1,628
I just bought a new pair of skis from a check that was written to me by PGE for selling an dedicated heat recovery chiller.

My day to day job probably takes more kilowatts off of the grid than you will in your entire life. I think I can at least make a comment about my passion wanting more room to participate in the environment.

Oct 8 2013 1:05AM
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Karma_Police
Posts: 2655 - Karma: 1,628
When' you've washed the patchouli off you should read about the environmental impacts of the Alaskan pipeline. The pre-conceived notions of what the environmental agencies thought was going to happen and what ACTUALLY happened.

No, skiing needs less crusty hippie locals like you.

I'm sure you already shit in the woods in my water supply and as someone who knows how the majority of potable water is filtered I'm not worried in any sense.

Good points though.
Oct 8 2013 1:15AM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21083 - Karma: 8,459
There's nobody stopping you from slapping some skins on your newly bought skis and earning your turns wherever you want to "participate in the environment". How is anybody restricting your right to do that? There is literally no land organization besides private land ownership that can restrict you from accessing wilderness areas. I'm talking land development and related environmental impact, while you're talking backcountry access. There's a huge difference.








"as someone who knows how the majority of potable water is filtered I'm not worried in any sense."

...The point wasn't whether or not you care how clean your city's supply of filtered drinking water is. The point was that if we as humans shit up stream of a creatures habitat (i.e. pollute), that creature doesn't have any form of city funded sanitation system to purify their drinking water. It was a metaphor that you took 113.78% literally. Jump off your serious horse and eat a snickers. You seem hungry for care-free fun.


Now that said. Regardless of any arguments presented in this thread, WHAT THE LIVING FUCK crawled up your vagina and made home in your uterus? Take a chill pill and go jack off to some ski porn or something before that baby starts developing.
Oct 8 2013 1:44AM
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bernierosow
Posts: 270 - Karma: 1,666
Move this thred over to TGR
Oct 8 2013 2:14AM
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closeyetfar11
Posts: 387 - Karma: 1,079
Whoooooa, chieftain.  Pump those brakes.

The water comment was directed at user "3mania", not you.  Also, I am far, far from what you refer to as a "crusty hippie".   
Just not a fan of the WE NEED MOAR EXPANSION & CONDOS mentality that seems to be all the rage. 

I am well aware of what ACTUALLY happens, as I frequent a ski area that sits directly next to sensitive alpine wetlands, and closes, no matter if it snows foot on closing day (and it does) to allow annual animal migration, among other things.


What has happened to this site?  I sure hope everyone's jimmies get unrustled with the season starting.
Oct 8 2013 9:41PM
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