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Deep Snow Safety

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drwclrk
Posts: 1114 - Karma: 719
What's up!

Firstly, I searchbarred and couldn't anything relevant to my questions. If such a thread has already been created I'd love a link!

I've been an East Coast park rat for the majority of my ski life. I'm a competent and versatile skier and I have never skied in deep snow.. like, ever. I realize that a pow day is the supreme event in the life of a skier and I'm anxious to get mine. To see kids in videos bombing through trees and off of wind lips and cliffs seems like the best time ever, of all time, forever and ever. Doesn't Tanner Hall say something about backflips and "hoots and hollers through the trees all day.."? Ya, that. I want that. And hopefully I'll achieve that dream this upcoming winter.

However, I feel like there is a horror story to match every righteous one. I've had friends stuck in tree wells, buried upside down off of cliffs, and generally swallowed by snow. To me, this is paralyzing. I understand the thrill of flexing the metaphorical middle finger in the face of Fear, but some significant part of me shies away from such a thrilling experience (and I'm not normally timid person, especially on skis.) It seems like even the best skiers are often bested by Mama Nature.

So, I ask you this: What are the fundamentals of skiing deep snow? I know that avy courses are always recommended, but what about the flip side of that coin? What about trees? And glades? Ski with a friend, I know that one. What are the other rules of thumb? What does the powder n00b need to know?

TL;DR // SPARKNOTES:

Skiing deep snow seems fun yet dangerous (for a variety of reasons). What are some basic rules of thumb to stay safe both in bounds/out of bounds on a pow day?

(Hit me with a past thread if you know of one!)

Thanks homies!


Sep 1 2013 11:31PM
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HANNERTALL_420
Posts: 207 - Karma: 189
lol versatile
Sep 1 2013 11:39PM
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DizzyG
Posts: 698 - Karma: 296
In bounds, powder isn't scary at all. If you haven't had much experience skiing it you might take a few runs to get the feel but that's about it.

Cliffs are hard to land sometimes but if you're in bounds you probably won't get stuck upside down or anything because it's rarely that deep, and trees are just trees. Ski with a buddy and you won't be stuck in a tree well, mostly because at least in CO, snow in bounds is still rarely deep enough to get stuck, and you have to be pretty deep for somebody to not be able to pull you out. Obey signs and it's very unlikely that you'll get caught in an avalanche in bounds.

It's more like this: Tons of people have great powder days that you don't hear about because they were just fun powder days, but every bad story gets told over and over so you always hear them. So basically there are a million great powder days for every tragedy, and the tragedies are almost always because the skier was doing something wrong (like skiing alone or ducking ropes or in the BC without a beacon etc.)

Backcountry is a whole new game and there's to much information for me to type here, but you should probably ski a bunch of in bounds powder before you'll even want to deal with it.

Just try it and you'll be hooked for life, have fun!
Sep 1 2013 11:46PM
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panojibber.
Posts: 1041 - Karma: 683
The truth is that there are simply some risks that you take on when you ski pow/backcountry that are completely unavoidable. Nobody that gets stuck in a tree well just cruises up to it and jumps in to see how deep the snow is. They probably lost control and ate shit into the tree well, losing their skis, and getting stuck. I mean, if you never ski in the trees and you never ski out of bounds, you'll probably be a lot safer. But that wouldn't be any fun.

Number 1 rule of pow/skiing safety: don't ski alone. Thats about all you can do.
Sep 2 2013 12:05AM
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drwclrk
Posts: 1114 - Karma: 719
Hah, that's fair. I'm "East Coast" versatile, how's that? And thanks for the answers guys, you're quelling my immediate nerve.
Sep 2 2013 12:49AM
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-WZ-
Posts: 3600 - Karma: 6,582
Ski with a friend and you should be ok, also dont go into bc without some prior knowledge
Sep 2 2013 1:10AM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,410
Click for larger image





Seriously though, check out K2's Backside Elevated Education series:

Sep 2 2013 1:22AM
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GANDALF
Posts: 6306 - Karma: 6,657
At least where I ski, I have had a friend almost die in-bounds because he went head first after landing a cliff into deep snow.
There were 4 of us skiing together. He was the last one to drop, so we were all 100 feet downhill from him. The snow was so deep it was taking too long for us to even get close to him. I skied down to the lift to get the liftie to radio patrol while my 2 friends stayed behind and continued to slowly wade through the deep snow. Luckily, a snowboarder came down near where my friend was buried, and my friends waved him down and pointed out our buddy. He pulled him out just in time. Scary. Ass. Shit.
Shit can go wrong in one second. Always be prepared.
Sep 2 2013 1:38AM
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GANDALF
Posts: 6306 - Karma: 6,657
Also forgot to mention, my friend who got buried is a pro patroller.
Sep 2 2013 1:39AM
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drwclrk
Posts: 1114 - Karma: 719
This is what I mean-- how exactly are you best prepared for a situation like that? All the best to your friend.
Sep 2 2013 1:43AM
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drwclrk
Posts: 1114 - Karma: 719
Rather, what would you do in the future to prevent something similar from happening? Is there anything?
Sep 2 2013 1:45AM
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Bateman
Posts: 8593 - Karma: 8,600
hahahahaha
Sep 2 2013 2:21AM
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drwclrk
Posts: 1114 - Karma: 719
Like this:



Sep 2 2013 9:29AM
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skiersupreme
Posts: 1549 - Karma: 4,872
ski aggressive, but in control. dont be afraid to fall, especially in pow cuz it feels like clouds of marshmallows. know avalanche conditions, and go out and have a good time
Sep 2 2013 11:55AM
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marsh.
Posts: 1173 - Karma: 1,403
This thread is quite eloquent. Anyway, where do you plan on skiing? Because it's different everywhere you go. I'd say go for the inbounds experience first out west and then go from there. Powder skiing is difficult at first, the hardest part for me was not leaning back all the time, you want to stay fairly neutral in a stance.
Sep 2 2013 11:58AM
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drwclrk
Posts: 1114 - Karma: 719
I'll definitely be in Colorado and Utah, maybe even the PNW and Montana. It depends! I'm fortunate to have family and friends all over. To speak to the latter part of your response, I suppose having the right skis helps with not leaning back all the time.. which is something I'm looking forward to investing in.
Sep 2 2013 12:25PM
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drwclrk
Posts: 1114 - Karma: 719
Any other stories? Experiences? Advice?
Sep 2 2013 7:40PM
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japanada
Posts: 13785 - Karma: 1,956
The far west and PNW resorts are where tree wells are the biggest danger. They get 5 foot plus storm cycles that cause the wells to get pretty wide reaching. It also can lead to what happened at Mammoth shown in the video above. A airbag pack is a great investment, esp if you team that up with a avalung.
Sep 2 2013 8:24PM
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Session
Posts: 5404 - Karma: 22,511
Google NARSID. You can die just skiing wide open low angle pow.
Sep 2 2013 8:27PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
skiing with a friend will only help some of the time. When you are both ripping through trees it is damn easy to not noticce your partner take a header and completely disapear into a tree well. you need to activly force yourslef not to panic and to slowly wiggle and rock yourself into a position to clear your airway and get your head above your feet.

One of the bigest things you can try and do in deep snow, is if you feel yourself going over the bars, throw a punch front to try and roll through it so you dont end up with your head below your feet. Deep and steep is impossible to climb through. it can take 30+minutes to grab a lost ski that is only 20 yards above you.

Overall its still a lot about risk management...knowing your skill level and when the conditions allow you to push it or not.

I am not a huge fan of super deep days for this reason. the perfect day is a 2 foot day on top of 1 foot from the day before.
Sep 3 2013 1:04PM
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shocker611
Posts: 2599 - Karma: 423
this right here.  The punch front thing is very true.  If you know you are going over the bars definitely try to role and get your head uphill.  It's real easy to get stuck upside down in deep snow and generally if you are able to get onto your back with your head uphill you can at least get your head to the surface.  I have also had friends trigger some pretty decent avy's inbounds at brighton so sometimes you even need to be careful in bounds on those deeper days. 
Sep 4 2013 4:48AM
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Bo_bot9
Posts: 1437 - Karma: 275
Biggest advice would be to dont get over confident...you dont just learn how to predict and avoid avalanches in one season or even five...its a lifetime of learning and you have to know that...

Dont be afraid to play it safe...being able to take ego and emotion out of your decision making process will be extremely valuable. you want to be able to ski tomorrow and the next day and the next...when conditions are right you'll know and when they are is when its time to get on those bigger faces and more committing lines..

Find some good people...the people who choose to travel with, whether it be inbounds or out of bounds, are your best chance at being saved if your caught in an avalanche.

Practice, practice, practice....get a beacon and learn to use it. singular burials/multiple burials the more you practice these scenarios you'll become more efficient in your search and understand how your beacon works.

Definitely take an avy 1 course that is 3 days long also...you will learn a lot more then just the single day class..

any other questions or anything feel free to message me.
Sep 4 2013 12:37PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
threads
Sep 4 2013 12:42PM
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