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CPR for Guys

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GSPhotography
Posts: 838 - Karma: 1,373
I think you should remember how to do it.


Jul 11 2013 5:27PM
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GSPhotography
Posts: 838 - Karma: 1,373
Thanks for the info
Jul 12 2013 4:11PM
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BLADEE
Posts: 1017 - Karma: 778
Me gusta. But actually CPR doesn't save anyone.
Jul 12 2013 7:04PM
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Dingo69
Posts: 1330 - Karma: -171
Im pretty sure thats not where youre supposed to do the chest compressions
Jul 12 2013 7:08PM
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GSPhotography
Posts: 838 - Karma: 1,373
If you follow the rib cage going up , when they meet is the start of the sternum.
Put 3 fingers wide from there going up again, and it should be rite around there. So in the video, it looks pretty much like it.
Jul 12 2013 8:19PM
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schism
Posts: 1705 - Karma: 389
Good ole OPAs. Use them the second you have an unresponsive patient with suction on the way.

What OP is talking about in regards to jaw is a jaw thrust. If you just do a head tilt chin lift it will actually close the airway. The jaw thrusts pushes the mandible up giving you an underbit. It prevents the tongue from falling back which is extremely important with an unresponsive patient.

It's also a lot easier to do when holding c-spine.

Source - took my Outdoor Emergency Care in May as well as CPR/AED
Jul 12 2013 9:04PM
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Scaredwhiteboy
Posts: 1395 - Karma: -938
You're a fucking moron. Rescue breathing has kept people who weren't breathing alive for hours. They would never remove something with proven efficacy.


Also, if you don't know how to check for a pulse, don't attempt CPR. Simple as that. Never do chest compressions without first verifying the lack of a pulse.

Jul 13 2013 12:07AM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
untrue I've done it before and it did save them.
Jul 13 2013 12:27AM
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GSPhotography
Posts: 838 - Karma: 1,373
You dont check for pulse anymore. You dont
Jul 13 2013 12:39AM
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GSPhotography
Posts: 838 - Karma: 1,373
Picture or it didnt happen
Jul 13 2013 12:39AM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
You check for the person's pules while you're checking for there breathing no more then 10 secs. Also after reading this shit show of a thread im saying this then leaving. Oxygen diffuses through the lungs, and into the bloodstream. When you exhale I think your oxygen level somewhere around 12% but I could be completely wrong on that. You should always do two breaths with your compressions it does help.
Jul 13 2013 12:47AM
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Scaredwhiteboy
Posts: 1395 - Karma: -938
Wow, in a rare turn of events, zzzskizzz is actually correct. GSPhotography is dumber than a prairie dog with too many chromosomes.
Jul 13 2013 1:28AM
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PJS.
Posts: 11943 - Karma: 895
I got certified less than 6 months ago and we still checked for pulse. What the fuck are you talking about
Jul 13 2013 2:32AM
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50Kal
Posts: 2829 - Karma: 5,397
This is what make me disregard all things said by GSphotography.
Not trying to be hater, and they do help to some degree (red cross) in a sense that they allow office workers to be trained but they are the bottom of the barrel of medical trainer provider.
I personally feel Red cross should stop teaching medical classes (and focus on blood donations & global aid) cause they dumb down their classes so much it does more bad then good. Thats just my opinion.
Jul 13 2013 3:55AM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
to the people calling out gsphotography about the pulse checking....

i cannot bring up clear documentation from the US heart organisation but here are the european guidelines:

go to adult BLS, nowhere is mentioned that you should check for a pulse .....


and above is the explanation....

Jul 13 2013 6:15AM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
i don't really agree, i'm a rescue diver and diver-lifeguard and even on our recycles which happen yearly we still see that people (who are also rescue diver/lifeguards) often do some things wrong ...

this can go to applying pressure in the wrong location to incomplete head tilts chinlifts or making a wrong diagnosis, etc.

the reason it has to be dumbed down so badly is because for most people, even the ones who need to learn it for their job or function, on average they only train like once a year ....

so how can you get a proper routine if you only train once every 12 months?
by keeping it simple and easy to replay in your head ....

and you might say that you are special and can easily recall a much more complicated routine, well that might be correct for you but in most cases it's bullshit .... If you only train very sporadically you need to keep the routine simple. because it really has to be a routine, just knowing how to do cpr won't serve you any good.

Once you see a person lying (seemingly) dead on the floor, with maybe some other injuries as well, you have to stand really strong in your shoes to help that person out and perform cpr, if you then need to think about how to do cpr you'll probably freeze up and be of no help at all ....
in stress situations people always fall back onto routine and training, not on what they know ....
Jul 13 2013 6:31AM
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Black.Bird
Posts: 2566 - Karma: 684
Things are different in Canada. Here classes are taught by the Lifesaving Society, so our standards may be different then yours. We don't check for pulse.
Jul 13 2013 7:16AM
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rockersteez
Posts: 593 - Karma: 1,199
repost
Jul 13 2013 7:31AM
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schism
Posts: 1705 - Karma: 389
In canada when you learn CPR and standard first aid you go right to CPR, if you have learned advanced first aid then you check pulse and deadly bleeds first.
Jul 13 2013 11:18AM
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PJS.
Posts: 11943 - Karma: 895
Aaah. Are the Lifesaving society's procedures generally more simple than the Red Cross's? I remember when we were learning spinals and in-water backboarding our instructor mentioned that some organizations do it in a simpler way.
Jul 13 2013 12:56PM
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Laurent.
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 25,313
All this talk about outdated techniques...

I just prop their hands up and apply the miracle five.

Click for larger image
Jul 13 2013 2:11PM
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Che~
Posts: 2108 - Karma: 296
Rescue breathing is not the same as CPR. RB is for patients who have a pulse, but are not breathing. CPR itself isnt very efficient. Cant remember that stats off the top of my head, but unless ALS and ACLS is established almost immediately, there is a very poor survival rate
Jul 13 2013 4:32PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
The two biggest factors that affect survival are (a) whether the victim’s collapse was actually witnessed by a person trained in CPR and (b) whether the witness was a stranger or not. Factor (a) is pretty simple: if the collapse is witnessed, then the delay in starting CPR is typically minimal and thus damage to the brain from oxygen starvation is reduced. The details concerning factor (b) are perhaps more surprising: bystanders trained in CPR are less likely to initiate CPR if they know the cardiac arrest victim; strangers are 4.6 times more likely to initiate CPR than bystanders known by the victim. Why? Reasons given to researchers for failing to administer CPR mostly boiled down to panic.

So if you're planning on having a heart attack, I recommend you arrange to have a trained stranger on hand who can start CPR immediately upon your collapse. Most people, of course, don't get the opportunity for such planning, meaning it's key that lots and lots of people be trained in CPR. One study calculated for each person actually saved by CPR, 12,306 people have to have received CPR training.

Survival rates are higher in those communities where automated external defibrillators (AEDs) are available in places like airports, community centers, office buildings, and police cars. AEDs can increase survival rates by 22 to 39 percent. That doesn’t mean they've made CPR obsolete. Not all heart attacks are due to ventricular fibrillation, the electrical malfunction that defibrillators correct; CPR will keep blood flowing to the brain in these cases and when defibrillators are not available.

—paperbackwriter
Straight Dope Science Advisory Board

The survival rate of those who receive CPR is only about 10%
Jul 13 2013 5:28PM
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Ye_ol_wild_Koala
Posts: 270 - Karma: 121
If there is a pulse, you dont do CPR.

And actually, a group of japanese researchers found that not doing rescue breathing is good because it eliminates getting comminucable diseases and that the oxygen saturation is fine for the first however many minutes.

So do your research before you call people morons, you moron.
Jul 13 2013 5:35PM
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GSPhotography
Posts: 838 - Karma: 1,373
Obviously CPR varies from countries and areas. I think we found that out from now so its pointless to argue about what we got trained with.
If you are not up to date in your classes, you are probably wrong.

In my point of view. If you find someone unconscious you might wanna try cpr.
If you dont, its just immoral.
Even if youre not sure its gonna work.
At least you tried.
Jul 13 2013 8:19PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
actually, it's not always in your best interest to assist somebody in need. if you injure them further, you could be liable. i know here in canada we have the good semaritan act or some shit that prevents somebody from suing your ass if you go to help them, but i know a lot of yanks will fuck you over for trying to do the right thing and breaking a rib in the process.

from a practical stand point, though, i dont think anyone in their right mind would ever fuck you over for trying to help them. however, i'm sure it does happen. there's some fucked up people out there. sadly, you can't just dive right in and try to be a hero if you have no idea what you're doing.
Jul 13 2013 8:24PM
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Black.Bird
Posts: 2566 - Karma: 684
I don't think they are more "simple", they're just slightly different. When someone is unconscious and not breathing, I don't see why you would check the pulse. It's a waste of time and you can start CPR.
For spinals, there are three different roll-overs. My favorite one is called the Canadian Rollover, and I'm really curious as to what you guys in the US call it? I've always wondered. The Canadian Rollover is when you put both the victim's arms on his ears and squeeze, and gently roll while moving forward.
Jul 13 2013 9:14PM
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Che~
Posts: 2108 - Karma: 296
you really cant have a point of view. As a lifeguard (emergency health care provider) there are certain guidelines that you have to follow. There are hundreds of other reasons people can loose consciousness, and not be in cardiac arrest. A radial pulse is stupidly easy to find, and can be done in seconds.
Jul 13 2013 10:03PM
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Ye_ol_wild_Koala
Posts: 270 - Karma: 121
I just became advance cardiac life suppost certified.

We learned the drugs to keep someone alive in asystole, v-fib, a-fib, vtach, svt, etc. It makes a difference...

Treat first, diagnose later.

Trust me, im a doctor.

No pulse... CPR.

Pulse, no breathing... Rescue breathing.

Jul 13 2013 10:06PM
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PJS.
Posts: 11943 - Karma: 895
I didn't really mean the rollovers, more the backboard insertion and extraction bit. I was taught a method (Red Cross) that involved rescue tubes and three or four rescuers. My current work uses a simpler method that only uses two rescuers and no tubes.

Just rambling a bit, I had an inservice about spinals a week ago and it was on my mind.
Jul 13 2013 10:21PM
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GSPhotography
Posts: 838 - Karma: 1,373
Che. If you want to argue with someone about either we have to find the pulse before we do anything. Please go yell at the people that have degrees in that matter and do studies on CPR each year to evolve it. Not me. Im just following procedure. Now, I do know how to find pulse. 2 years ago, we needed to do it in CPR still.
Jul 15 2013 10:08PM
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GSPhotography
Posts: 838 - Karma: 1,373
To conclude this: Do whatever you are certified with. If not find someone thats certified. If not, use your head, if you think you know how to do it, Give it a try, cant really make it way worst than it is.

Put your head close to the persons mouth, face the persons stomach and look for breathing.
If there isn't, try cpr.

I dont care if you've learned it a different way, good for you !
Theres not a universal way to do it.
BUT, the idea is the same.
Get the blood, and oxygen flowing in that body till the ambulance arrives.

If you want to argue any of the techniques I talked about bellow, please email red cross or any association that teach these practices. Just remember that people study those techniques every year for flaws and try to improve it. I believe what I learned is correct and I hope I will never have to use these practices.

* I strongly suggest you taking a CPR class. Its just an excellent thing to know.
Quick questions:

How long does it take for someone to drown ?
How much water do you need in order to drown ?

Yesterday a 2 year old girl died in Quebec , her mom left the pool gate open by mistake.
People with children at home, please be careful. 99.9% of these deaths happen at home.

Jul 15 2013 10:17PM
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GSPhotography
Posts: 838 - Karma: 1,373
Are you talking about spinals ? or someone unconscious.
If you are just talking about someone unconscious you can just roll them over with any of the techniques.
The canadian lifesaving society only uses 1 lifeguard to take the person out of the water ( continental beach technique ) and you need 2 in Pool. But we are also though how to take them out of the pool by ourselfs.
As for spinals, you have to be like 5 at least. But you can also ask the public if they dont look too dumb
Jul 15 2013 10:20PM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
not really cpr related but this just popped up on my facebook and i found it quite interesting ...
Jul 16 2013 6:18AM
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tjlproductions
Posts: 114 - Karma: 145
Ok boys and girls.

compressions only. the American heart assoc. newest form of CPR for bystanders.

This reasoning (not factoring in that you are a retainer or COPD patient)  is due to the sole fact we breath due to what is called our hypoxic drive.

that means the build up of CO2 in our system causes us to inhale to blow off the excess of waste.  The idea that when you add breaths to the pt will prevent the autonomous system from kicking in and basically you hang on to the CO2

Once EMTs get there we can slap D-fib pads on and our compression rate to respiration rate is 30/2 at a rate of 100 compressions or more per minute, on adults of course using a BVM at 100% O2 flow.

Then if its non traumatic cardiac arrest you may stand a chance, traumatic cardiac arrest you are S.O.L.

From my experience with CPR in progress, your F'd and if we do bring you back, you will most likely die a day or two later. Statistically speaking.
Jul 16 2013 4:11PM
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GSPhotography
Posts: 838 - Karma: 1,373
What are you standing by when you say if CPR brings you back you are dead 1 or 2 days later ?
Also, as I said, CPR varies from where and when and by whom you got it from.
Here in Canada, its 30 compressions for 2 respirations.

Jul 16 2013 6:29PM
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powderdrunkie
Posts: 2034 - Karma: 976
Read tjlproductions comment above.

And then stop being a dickface...
Jul 16 2013 9:09PM
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tjlproductions
Posts: 114 - Karma: 145
Basically for "bystanders" IE non trained personnel and people without proper equipment that

1. Doing compressions is better than nothing at all
    -research has found people to freeze up when CPR is needed. I see that shit all the time that they "don't know what to do!" Well fuck start pushing at least!

and 2. The fact that compressions builds up the hypoxic drive and it is believed spin up the the autonomous drive so the pt has a better chance of breathing again VS flooding the system with false sensory to the oxygen you are blowing in to the pt lungs.

and yes I get CPR varies but this is what the current procedures and ideology for thus procedures that the American Heart Association runs.  And we do 30/2 adult , 15/2 with pediatrics with TWO rescuers at a beat similar to the song staying alive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vj092UgKwQ

Also very relevant and great "bystander CPR" tutorial video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILxjxfB4zNk

please excuse the grammar mistakes, I am just half way through my 24 hr shift and I am an EMT/ OEC Ski Patroller 4 yrs so this info is up to date.




Jul 16 2013 10:05PM
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tjlproductions
Posts: 114 - Karma: 145
Ohh and to the whole die a day or two later? The CPRs I have been on, the pt should of died...not to be a dick but they are sick, sick people who went in to cardiac arrest for a reason.

Jul 16 2013 10:08PM
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GSPhotography
Posts: 838 - Karma: 1,373
That is a very different subject than CPR.

Jul 23 2013 2:18PM
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