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Specialized Race Waxing

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robotdna
Posts: 1232 - Karma: 2,959
Hey NS.

I have some quick questions for the knowledgeable folk out there. I am a racer that is wanting to start waxing my own skis, and I have a few questions.

I know the differences between hydrocarbon(CH), low fluoro(LF), high fluoro(CF) and fancy cera fluro(CF) waxes, but am unsure which to start out with.

Should I start out using a hydrocarbon wax? And then put some LF on it? Or just LF? Just CH?

Note- I'm not going to spend $150 on 20g of the CF stuff because that's just ridiculous haha.

Thanks guys, happy shredding. Have a great day.
Jun 26 2013 12:10PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6660 - Karma: 10,905
Always start with lots and lots of Base Prep (Swix BP88 is a great option), whether it is traditional waxing or by hot boxing. Keep treating your bases with that and then add the specific temperature treatment of the day.
Jun 27 2013 9:06AM
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Pipe_Munky
Posts: 10888 - Karma: 2,184
lots of base prep wax for sure!
after that, low fluro then move into the high fluro and then whatever fancy CF or additives you want to use.

do not use a base cleaner on your bases. before every wax, do a hot scrape. use a low end wax and scrape it off before it dries. this helps open the pores of the ski and pulls all the crap out. once you're done, start loading it up with wax
Jun 27 2013 10:42AM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
Any time you use CF wax be very carful how much you actually put on and how you apply it. it is absolutely terrible for your bases to have to much or to just leave it on. Do a full hot scrape as soon as you are done skiing on it with Yellow CH
Jun 27 2013 11:12AM
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robotdna
Posts: 1232 - Karma: 2,959
Thanks guys. Will do.

I assume you all load up on wax over the summer too to prevent oxidation?
Jun 27 2013 11:12AM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
yep I do a storage coat of yellow ch from tip to tail on every ski for the summer months as well as loosening the din's on my bindings (but don't do that unless you know how to work on bindings)
Jun 27 2013 11:14AM
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I_liketobutter
Posts: 2664 - Karma: 997
since your starting racing, buy the biggest blocks of ch wax you can afford, you'll use it. when i used to race my routine would be ch through the week, then lf or sometimes hf for race weekends, then hot wax them with ch sunday nights.

on race days I'd leave the LF unscraped until my run. then i'd scrape and brush at the top. it's not ideal but if you don't have money for race skis and practice skis or that crazy cera F shit, it works pretty well. if i really felt like getting after it I'd use CH the night before, scrape and brush. then cork in some HF at the top, followed by a light horse hair brush.
Jun 27 2013 11:38AM
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robotdna
Posts: 1232 - Karma: 2,959
I'm not starting racing, I'm just not taking my skis to our team's technician anymore because he has like 20 kids' skis to take care of. :P As you can imagine, that's a lot of skis!

I fortunately do have money for nice race skis(all I save for), I have some HEAD Worldcup RD tier ones. So fun to race on! I may look into the cera f stuff once I start getting closer to the top top, right now I'm just kinda in the middle of the pack(started a few years ago, but gaining rapidly).

I've seen people scraping on the hill. It seems like a good idea. I'll look into that too.


Oh, and thanks for the not hating on the racer guys. :)

Jun 27 2013 12:28PM
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robotdna
Posts: 1232 - Karma: 2,959
Oh and what's the difference between brass, nylon, steel, and horsehair brushes? How do they differ in quality/performance/utility?
Jun 27 2013 12:29PM
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rozboon
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 868

They change the structuring (basically the texture) of the base. Having the correct structure is almost as important (some would say more) as the correct wax.

The structure should be established with a suitable stone grind but when you wax the skis you will fill the grooves in the base and need to brush to make them work as intended. For an aggressive structure you need an aggressive brush to remove the wax, whereas for a fine structure you need a soft brush so that you don't damage it.

In order of aggressiveness - steel, brass, nylon, horsehair.

An aggressive structure is good when the snowpack is wet as it will reduce suction between your skis and the snow. Conversely when the snowpack is very very dry/cold a minimalist structure will reduce friction.

For a very wet snowpack, like melty spring snow, you want a very aggressive structure, almost like a vinyl record - works like the grooves on a car tyre to expel excess water from under the ski - however this will make the skis slow on dry snow so ideally you need 2 or more pairs of skis to do this.

You can get pretty crazy on the structuring with things like diamond and gradient structures (structuring the edges/tips/tails differently to the centre of the ski). Like waxing, it's a bit of an art and different techs/skiers will have different opinions about what works best.

Jun 27 2013 7:59PM
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robotdna
Posts: 1232 - Karma: 2,959
oooh, that makes a lot of sense. I wondered how people restructured without grinding.

Thanks!
Jun 28 2013 12:40PM
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k2andcannoli
Posts: 644 - Karma: -36
"You can get pretty crazy on the structuring with things like diamond and gradient structures (structuring the edges/tips/tails differently to the centre of the ski). Like waxing, it's a bit of an art and different techs/skiers will have different opinions about what works best." - Ive heard of this but never have skied a structure like that. Dont you need a really high end stone grinder?
Jun 28 2013 1:18PM
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robotdna
Posts: 1232 - Karma: 2,959
Legit high-level racers have patterns ground into their skis for different conditions, race types, speed variations, conditions, etc. I think you need a very experienced technician who has the nice grinding tools to do so.
Jun 28 2013 1:48PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7147 - Karma: 17,507
^ to be honest at any level of racing if you want to be wining you need a good tech behind you. The prep of the skis makes such a huge difference. When I had a wintersteiger base grinder at my disposal I got really into all the different structures and base prep and I can tell you it makes a huge difference. If you want to take your racing seriously you need to find a good tech.
Jun 28 2013 1:57PM
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robotdna
Posts: 1232 - Karma: 2,959
I would love to but I live in the midwest. :(

I do think one of my coaches is really getting into it, so that should help.
Jun 28 2013 3:42PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7147 - Karma: 17,507
If there are any shops which do servicing around you go in and chat to the tech. Find out what kind if background he has and what equipment he has at his disposal. It will really make the difference if your serious about progressing in racing.
Jun 28 2013 4:03PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Not necessarily. I've seen an old wintersteiger with a snowboard width stone get set up for some crazy different structure patterns, as long as you can control what the dresser does, either automatically or manually (which is definitely more sketchy unless you know your stone grinder like the back of your hand), you can set whatever structure pattern you want along any part of the stone. Every cut decreases the life of your stone, and those things arent cheap. Most non-racing skiers wouldn't be able to tell the difference blindly on similarly waxed and tuned skis unless the structure was radically different.
Jun 29 2013 2:02AM
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k2andcannoli
Posts: 644 - Karma: -36
Thanks. We cut the stone pretty often based on conditions. We do have a sb and pow ski pattern that has to be run directly center because the pattern is a mirror image from center. The last time the wintersiger tech came in he spoke of machines that have an additional diamond to cut two separate and distinct patterns. It doesn't really matter anywho. Ill probably never have a $1/2 million machine at my disposal. The ol grindrite does just fine.
Jun 29 2013 8:22PM
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