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HELP NEEDED: YouRiding FREESKI game new JUMPS system

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Hiboux64
Posts: 3 - Karma: 88
Hi guys,

Thomas again. First, I wanted to thank all of you who took time to answer my questions about jibbing in freeski in a previous thread.

This time, I would like you to help me to understand the jumps in freeski in order to figure out a better new ystem for our game.

At that moment, I have find a new system which allows players to do:
+ Spin
+ Backflip
+ Frontflip (normal ones as well as Superman Frontflip)
+ Cork Spin
+ Bio Spin
+ Misty
+ Lincoln
+ Flat Spin

Do I miss something?
I have read things about Rodeo Flips. Are they different than Flat Spins? What is the difference (if you know good videos who show the diffrence, please let me know)?

Thanks in advance for your help!
T.
Jun 24 2013 5:28AM
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90053
Posts: 2565 - Karma: 3,728
flats are essentially less inverted rodeos
Jun 24 2013 6:16AM
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90053
Posts: 2565 - Karma: 3,728
and because they are so similar it would be such a bad thing to include them as the same thing, in my opinion, just to make things simpler, misties and bios are a similar story
Jun 24 2013 6:33AM
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NH_OPERATOR
Posts: 1070 - Karma: 2,883
What is the issue with your current system for doing spins? It seems to work fine to me.
Jun 24 2013 6:49AM
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Hiboux64
Posts: 3 - Karma: 88
I don't want to simplify things. if you tell me that Rodeo and Flat are differents, even if that's a small difference, and you can show me that difference on a video so I could understand it clearly, I will put those 2 tricks in the game.
Jun 24 2013 8:12AM
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Hiboux64
Posts: 3 - Karma: 88
The players told us that the position of the rider for Cork, Bio, Rodeo, Misty and Flatspin are not good. They told us that the gameplay to do Flatspin, Cork and Bio is not good too. So I ask you on this forum what main tricks should be in the game, what are differences between tricks like Rodeo and Flat, do you know videos to show me, ... in order to do a better game.
Jun 24 2013 8:18AM
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Byron_tha_gr8
Posts: 4573 - Karma: 14,299
In the current game, the player "wobbles" when doing an off axis trick. Say im doing a leftside rodeo 720. He begins spinning left, then dips his shoulder under his body, which is good, but then it rises back up. Physically this does not make sense. His shoulder should continue below and behind his body, then rise on the opposite side. This is true for all corked tricks (that ive tried).

Here is a thread that describes each trick and has clear(ish) video of each off axis trick.

Also if anyone has the "Offical MSpaint .jpg Guide to Off Axis Tricks" aka OMG-GOAT, that would be good for this foo, and i also want it.
Jun 24 2013 9:37AM
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ny300z
Posts: 1299 - Karma: 1,708
yea i dont like how when doing corks the guy wobbles up and down giving him the cork or double cork status. Just doesnt look real at all.


Jun 24 2013 10:27AM
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FreeskiThe603
Posts: 861 - Karma: 1,409
The only thing I would recommend changing in your system is the corks. Make it so the actually "cork" part isn't so sudden and abrupt. Other than that your system works perfectly!
Jun 24 2013 11:14AM
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TripleBlack
Posts: 87 - Karma: 73
Each off-axis trick has its own axis. A rodeo isn't really "a backflip with a spin" even though that's probably the easiest way to explain it to people who've never seen one.

I find that Shredsauce does a good job of letting players create the axes of different tricks through timing  of lincoln/flip/spin combinations to do realistic tricks like rodeos, flats, mistys, corks, bios, underflips and overflips. Naming the tricks and giving scores, however, is a big challenge and it's easy to see why Shredsauce doesn't do that.

YouRiding tricks seem to be more like "animations", while Shredsauce is more like simulated physics, which makes its tricks more realistic as they follow what would actually happen. Instead of including specific tricks that can be done, an actual simulation of the skier in the air gives players more freedom (even to invent tricks) and more realism.

With the current jumps system, though, the lincolns with spins (as done in the game) would probably be considered underflips and overflips and not as "Lincoln 180/360/540".
 
Also, as was mentioned in the rail system thread, the skier needs to be better on the snow itself and be able to carve off jumps and land in transition when he's not facing directly down the hill (i.e. half/quarter pipes) so some form of edge control would be nice.

Jun 24 2013 11:56AM
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Miomo
Posts: 4302 - Karma: 14,133
I'll just bring this from my other five star thread...[img]http://thumbs.newschoolers.com/index.php?src=http://s23.postimg.org/f00o66wtn/Off_axis_Spin_Chart.png&size=400x1000[/img]
The arrows show the movement of the feet relative to the center of mass. So in a flatspin, your feet move behind you. In a rodeo, your feet move front to back along the side. A Bio is a less inverted Misty, and a D-spin is a very inverted cork.
Jun 24 2013 12:11PM
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SamMcChesney
Posts: 2905 - Karma: 2,199
shredsauce axis rules
Jun 24 2013 12:25PM
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Tree60
Posts: 1438 - Karma: 4,961
When naming tricks, the flip counts as a spin rotation. So right now in the game, you do a rodeo 180, but the flip is actually a 360 spin as well, so thats a rodeo 540. Same with corks. When I do a cork 7 in the game, it calls it a cork 3, because you only spin once on the horizontal axis, but it should really be called a cork 720, because 360 (on the horizontal) + 360 (on the vertical) = 720.
Jun 24 2013 12:29PM
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Cleapster
Posts: 622 - Karma: 1,402
What was saisd above definetely needs to be implemenyed
Jun 25 2013 2:55AM
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Hiboux64
Posts: 3 - Karma: 88
Hi all,

Thanks for the answer.

I have played shredsauce a lot to understand how the tricks work on it.
The way I see it, you can turn on 14 different "axis" if you play this a controller or 18 different "axis" if you play with the keyboard (you have 5 axis for a lincoln to the right and 5 others for a lincoln to the left with the keyboard, but only 3 for each side with the controller). Here are the axis you have in shredsauce with a controller:
- UP > Frontflip
- DOWN > Backflip
- RIGHT > Spin to the right
- LEFT > Spin to the left
- UP RIGHT > Misty to the right
- UP LEFT > Misty to the left
- DOWN RIGHT > Rodeo to the right
- DOWN LEFT > Rodeo to the left
- PRESS + RIGHT > Lincoln to the right
- PRESS + LEFT > Lincoln to the left
- PRESS + UP RIGHT > Off-axis Lincoln to the right but I don't know the name of the trick
- PRESS + UP LEFT > Off-axis Lincoln to the left but I don't know the name of the trick
- PRESS + DOWN RIGHT > Off-axis Lincoln to the right but I don't know the name of the trick
- PRESS + DOWN LEFT > Off-axis Lincoln to the left but I don't know the name of the trick

If you are able to do other things with a controller let me know?

For YouRiding, that's true that I am still looking for a system less "free" than shredsaucen. Here is the game play I am looking to with a controler:
LEFT STICK:
- UP > Frontflip
- DOWN > Backflip
- RIGHT > Spin to the right
- LEFT > Spin to the left
- UP RIGHT > Misty to the right
- UP LEFT > Misty to the left
- DOWN RIGHT > Rodeo to the right
- DOWN LEFT > Rodeo to the left
- L1 + UP RIGHT > Bio Spin to the right
- L1 + UP LEFT > Bio Spin to the left
- L1 + DOWN RIGHT > Cork Spin to the right
- L1 + DOWN LEFT > Cork Spin to the left
- L2 + RIGHT > Lincoln to the right
- L2 + LEFT > Lincoln to the left
- L2 + DOWN RIGHT > Flatspin to the right
- L2 + DOWN LEFT > Flatspin to the left
- R1 + UP > Superman Frontflip
- R1 + RIGHT > Shifty to the right
- R1 + LEFT > Shifty to the left
RIGHT STICK:
- UP > Grab 1
- UP RIGHT > Grab 2
- RIGHT > Grab 3
- DOWN RIGHT > Grab 4
- DOWN > Grab 5
- DOWN LEFT > Grab 6
- LEFT > Grab 7
- UP LEFT > Grab 8
- R2 + UP > Tweak Grab 1
- R2 + UP RIGHT > Tweak Grab 2
- R2 + RIGHT > Tweak Grab 3
- R2 + DOWN RIGHT > Tweak Grab 4
- R2 + DOWN > Tweak Grab 5
- R2 + DOWN LEFT > Tweak Grab 6
- R2 + LEFT > Tweak Grab 7
- R2 + UP LEFT > Tweak Grab 8

The tricks I didn't put are underflips and overflips because I have difficulties to understand them, but I still have the possibility to add them.

Let me know what you think?

Thanks,
T.
Jun 25 2013 4:58AM
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Miomo
Posts: 4302 - Karma: 14,133
Underflip- 90, lincoln up the mountain, 90
Over flip- 90, lincoln down the mountain, 90

And I've never played with a controller before simply because I don't have one to use, but I like the controls in BF3 for the helicopters/planes. One stick controls roll/yaw (lincoln loop/front,back flip) and the other controls the rudder (spin).
Jun 25 2013 1:00PM
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Nate.Dog
Posts: 1672 - Karma: 2,098
This is one of my biggest problems with the game right now, bugs the hell out of me when I do a cork 10 and it calls it a 7
Jun 25 2013 7:34PM
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Tree60
Posts: 1438 - Karma: 4,961
Another big change, that makes shredsauce really good, is the ability to change what side of your shoulder youre looking over when going switch, and landing looking the over the correct shoulder. Nobody does the spin left while looking over the right shoulder thing anymore.

For landings, when you spin left and land switch, you should land looking over the right shoulder, and vice versa when you spin right.
Jun 30 2013 12:12AM
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Nate.Dog
Posts: 1672 - Karma: 2,098
Oh the best thing to change in the jumps system of this game, REDUCE THE SCORE FOR FLAT SPINS, just the forward facing ones though: t+forward and e+forward can be busted out off of anything and take no actual skill to accomplish since it just automatically brings you around. And worst case they still give you like 40+ points, its ridiculous how high it scores you.

I can get a perfect 100 flatspining onto a rail, and damn near close that doing one off.

And on jumps: a triple flat 10 can be thrown off of a jump the size I can barely do a dub cork 9 on, which gives like 35-45 points versus the perfect 100 a triple flat 10 gives.

and if you're against reducing the score for whatever reason, just make them harder to do, make them require actual timing instead of just pressing two buttons and then it automatically landing it for you. Or just make the rotation slower so you cant do them on/off of everything. Please do something though, they absolutely ruin contest mode.
Jul 1 2013 3:39PM
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Ankilla
Posts: 506 - Karma: 2,377
go home
Jul 1 2013 6:48PM
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FuckAllOfYou
Posts: 3864 - Karma: 2,518
Here's my 2 cents:

First off, the misties and rodeos are really weird. I can do a misty 3 and a rode 3, with the odd way they rotate in the game.

Flatspins are sort of accurate, if you don't count when you do an upside down flat, which is weird.

Singles corks are decent for me, just a little choppy. Dub corks and bios are rough though - you finish the first cork/bio, go back to normal spinning, then do the next cork, which is extremely awkward.

And, how do you superman on a keyboard??
Jul 1 2013 7:54PM
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1kewldewd
Posts: 796 - Karma: 1,147
I really wouldn't be bothered by any of the spinning and flipping if I could afterbang and had a longer jacket. Make an afterbang button.
Jul 1 2013 8:09PM
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CashmereCat
Posts: 2211 - Karma: 2,394
Do how do you propose people like b dog do cork 180s? The cork isn't a rotation it is simply a description of the rotation. Same with henriks dub cork 7. If we were to name tricks the way you think they are it would be a dub cork 1440, completely different.
Jul 2 2013 10:09AM
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Ribss.
Posts: 3442 - Karma: 3,344
I hope nobody hates on this guy for coming here for advice. Shredsauce is not "competition" to this game and they can exist together.

Anyways, as previously stated flats and rodeos are very similar and implementing the differences in game would be very hard in my opinion. I however have no game dev knowledge so maybe not. The main difference is the axis in which you spin on.

I can't find any good videos right now, will post later with more info.
Jul 2 2013 2:30PM
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VTbass802
Posts: 992 - Karma: 240
the new (10/7) hunching and bending of the knees looks very forced... for the actual game (not just beta) you may want to work on that... I understand also how much time you must have already put into it just going this game is going to shape out to be great...
also things to consider
- using the prepare spin buttons on rails (make skis scissor)
- presses/butters
- maybe make separate style options

either way lots of fun bigups
Jul 12 2013 2:54PM
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KennyD
Posts: 264 - Karma: 537
THIS
Jul 12 2013 4:53PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
think about it like this. every trick is just some rotation in 3D space. that means everything you can possibly do is some combination of just three types of movement. in skiing terms that would be your front flip/backflip direction, your lincoln direction and your spinning direction.

but a control stick is two dimensional. so the problem is you are trying to cram 3 types of movement into two directions. some people get around this by adding extra buttons for lincoln but really I don't think there is a natural feeling way to do it on a conventional gamepad.
Sep 6 2013 8:26PM
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-WZ-
Posts: 3600 - Karma: 6,582
add screamin semens
Sep 6 2013 8:38PM
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McLS
Posts: 1985 - Karma: 6,454
new update is sick! i think the flatspins need some work though, and the corks and bios are not smooth enough (like you can only do a realistic cork/bio 360, if you spin more it just looks like a cork/bio 3 +additional spin)

for the flatspins, they should be more like a backflip tweaked to the side, not some ultra weird lincoln rotation facing down :) rodeos and mistys are good! Loving all the customisation too!! keep it up!
Sep 7 2013 5:59PM
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PM4FreeJiberish
Posts: 447 - Karma: 3,533
Please add in Butters already!
Sep 7 2013 6:10PM
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-Robert
Posts: 2000 - Karma: 1,491
How haven't I heard of this game? Where can I play it?!
Sep 7 2013 11:20PM
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