BUCKET CLIPS 3 | A FLINTA Ski Mixtape

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Knee misalignment from switch skiing

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sneezin
Posts: 632 - Karma: 430
Sup guys. This past season was my first season in colorado... and I really didnt do that much park skiing to be honest. I did, however, take advantage of the ice-free groomers and really fine tune my switch skiing. I got 35 days in and I was probably skiing switch 25% of the time

Anyways, my knees are royally fucked now. I am experiencing pain when climbing stairs and sometimes pain when just sitting down for too long. I saw an orthopedist and he had me get MRI's on both of my knees. Basically, he concluded that nothing was torn on either, but that they are both misaligned and theres a little bit of benign fluid hangin out around my kneecap. When I lift my legs up the part below my knee is angled outwards on both of my legs.

Originally, I had thought this was caused by me eating shit a couple of times - once at beaver going like 60+mph (tore my calf muscle in that fall as well) and once pulling my ski off mid air on a mute grab and landing knee into the binding of the ski that fell off. However, my dad watched me ski switch the other day and is convinced it is caused by my switch carving. I am starting to think that it is caused by the abnormal pressure I place on my knees when I carve switch. The pain is generally greatest following a day of serious high speed switch carving

Seeing as pro's (and many of you) ski switch way more than I do, I am wondering if any of you have any experience with similar problems. Is there a certain technique to switch skiing which places less pressure on the knees? Have any of you experienced knee misalignment? If so, how long did it take to recover in physical therapy? did you ever fully recover?


May 15 2013 3:13PM
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Turkelton
Posts: 2829 - Karma: 8,558
Never heard of this before actually
May 15 2013 3:25PM
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Giulio
Posts: 107 - Karma: 70
Bummer...I've always wondered if that could happen....
May 15 2013 3:27PM
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sneezin
Posts: 632 - Karma: 430
I hadn't either. I didn't even know knee misalignment was a thing until my orthopedist told me my knees were misaligned
May 15 2013 3:34PM
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250r
Posts: 2276 - Karma: 1,013
do you pressure your shins or heals when you ski switch? its not exactly like skiing forward obviously, you want to have more of your weight on your heals if possible. A bit counter intuitive especially after always learning to pressure your shins, but really its doing the same thing since your going backwards.
May 15 2013 3:35PM
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JUP*
Posts: 728 - Karma: 200
^^^^ thats good advise also i can kinda see where u might be coming from because when i was first figuring out how to ride switch i was like twisting my knees way more then i should have been which hurt carving really hard. so thats an idea.
May 15 2013 3:41PM
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sneezin
Posts: 632 - Karma: 430
I try to stay balanced over the balls of my feet. I am a ski instructor at a little hill in mass and I know that I am not supposed to place too much forward pressure when skiing switch similar to how you're not supposed to be backseat when skiing forwards. There are definitely times where I place pressure on my shins, however. Could this maybe cause knee misalignment?
May 15 2013 3:41PM
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sneezin
Posts: 632 - Karma: 430
I think this may be closer to my problem. I can't really picture myself twisting my knees while switch skiing, but I could definitely be doing it without realizing it.


I almost feel like I stagger my skis and twist my torso and head downhill so much while switch skiing that my knees experience serious pressure from that, because they are meant to point in the same direction as my torso and they point uphil while my torso points accross the hill. Does that make any sense?

Another theory i have is because they are both misaligned outwards, it is being caused from leaning to far over the sides of my skis when i carve. I like to get real far on my edges when i carve...... i dont know
May 15 2013 3:50PM
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Lemuel
Posts: 14499 - Karma: 10,717
What....... pressure should always be on your shins when you are skiing, forwards or switch. And your heals should always be planted firmly down regardless, skiing forward or switch.

OP, I know in the above post you said you are staggering your feet, but that should not do anything to your knees. Reading through, I was going to ask if you did stagger because everything you describe sounds like you don't stagger. Sounds like an issue with your stance to me.

What skis are you usually riding on? Wide skis are harder on the knees.
May 15 2013 4:34PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7160 - Karma: 17,585
How well fitted are your boots? Part of the issue could be that you have not got enough medial arch support. This would cause your ankle to pronate and bring your knees inwards. You may not notice it skiing regularly but the unnatural switch stab w could be putting your feet in an even more pronatrd position.

May be worth have your aligned measured. It will require a good fitter to do this though. Also and this is huge don't get any grinding to the soles done until you know your footbeds are doing everything possible to keep you aligned. I used to see it all the time. People come in with boots which have been ground down just to conter act the pronation. This is the wrong way to do it. You align the foot in the boot first and then if you require a sole grind get it done. But out of about 200 feet I worked on this year only 2 people needed sole work doing. So get the footbed right and it should be all you need.

It won't certainly help but it will always give you a better fit and improve your skiing.

Any questions let me know
May 15 2013 5:45PM
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Noha
Posts: 1281 - Karma: 2,684
vibes
May 15 2013 5:52PM
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WI_Personallty
Posts: 881 - Karma: 161
Are you possibly locking your legs when going in and out of turns. Maybe try bending your legs more? I can see how that would cause problems.
May 15 2013 7:12PM
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250r
Posts: 2276 - Karma: 1,013
and why do you say that exactly? your never going to be able to get the same amount of forward pressure that you could skiing forward. Skis work the same way forwards or backwards, so to properly drive them through the turn there must be weight on the forward facing part of the ski. All im really trying to say is that many people over pressure their shins when skiing switch, its the natural thing to do, but its the exact same as skiing forward in the backseat. Sure you will still have some pressure on your shins, but you should at least have more centred stance when skiing switch.
May 16 2013 3:07AM
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liukangkid
Posts: 3323 - Karma: 82
I think your doing it wrong.
May 16 2013 5:37AM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5979 - Karma: 3,572
I find skiing switch is the easiest on your knees. The only issue could be from a very tight band (IT band) that will restrict your movement and potentially cause discOmfort. It should translate to issues afterward as it should restrict you from moving into any extreme positions. It would also only cause lateral knee/ thigh discomfort.

Did you spend more days on snow this year compared to normal?
May 16 2013 5:54AM
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B.Aussie
Posts: 5852 - Karma: 4,531
What this guy said. Do your arches unusually pronate?
May 16 2013 5:55AM
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sneezin
Posts: 632 - Karma: 430
This could very well be the issue. My boots are size 26.5 but I definitely need a 25.5 or 25... I need to make the buckles just about as tight as they can go for my il moros to feel nice and snug. I just don't have the money to shell out for new boots right now. I may try selling my boots in b/s/t and see if I can get enough for them to buy a smaller pair. I have always wanted to get my boots professionally fitted, and I think I am going to get a boot fitter to fit me for my next pair. Only thing is (shitty, i know), my friends grandpa co-owns dalbello so I get brand new model boots for basically what they pay to make them. (Got the il moro t's for like $350 brand new). I'd feel bad to have a boot fitter fit me and whatnot and not actually buy a pair of boots from them.

Anyways, you mention that this would bring my knees inwards, and that definitely seems like it would cause exactly what i am experiencing - the part of my leg below my knees angles outwards when I extend it...



To the person that asked if I skiied more this season than usual, I'd say it was about the same as far as total vertical distance skied go. The two seasons before I skied 100+ days but thats because I was ski instructing everyday at a tiny little 210 vertical feet hill in mass

To the person that was wondering how large my skis are, I mostly ski a pair of centermounted 170cm fully symmetrical ace of spades. They're fairly average underfoot, not positive how many mm. I do occasionally ski my powder skis on groomers which are fatter than oprah though. They're 2011 184cm anthony b new lifes (122 underfoot, 151 in the tip and tail, fully symmetrical and centermounted)


thanks for all the help guys, i appreciate it
May 17 2013 10:41AM
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sneezin
Posts: 632 - Karma: 430
So I'm not gonna lie, I had no idea what pronate meant until i just looked it up. Still not entirely sure what it means haha... would someone care to explain what unusual pronation of arches implies?

May 17 2013 10:49AM
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wasatch_rat
Posts: 1772 - Karma: 2,952
i can't really speculate about switch skiing technique without seeing vids of you skiing switch, but i'm going through something somewhat similar right now. teaching kids how to wedge 3 days a week then skiing park whenever i could left my knees feeling like shit by the end of the season. totally out of alignment. i'm doing lots of yoga to loosen up and i use a foam roller on my IT bands everyday, those foam rollers are painful at first but man do they help.

curious, what kind of physical therapy things are you doing?
May 17 2013 12:53PM
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sneezin
Posts: 632 - Karma: 430
I really wish I had taken some video of myself skiing switch this season so I could post it. Didn't really do any filming at all.


Anyways, for the time being just some light resistance training to build the stabilizer muscles back and shit. I think I'm going to be getting into heavier resistance training soon. Basically just some exercises with those big rubber band things and leg lifts and stuff like that
May 17 2013 12:59PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7160 - Karma: 17,585
You can still get dalbellos just get them fitted. The most important part of the fit is the footbed and no boot come with footbeds so every boot needs fitting. Go get your feet measured up for length width and volume then get the nearest dalbello. Then take them to a really good fitter and get the boots fitted it will help hugely
May 17 2013 1:13PM
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shreddin_apples
Posts: 86 - Karma: 95

I dont think its your equipment.

The human knees/body build is meant to face any kind of motion in a forward direction. Clearly running forward is easier and more natural than running backwards, and the same concept applies to skiing.

Skiing backwards is completely harmless but carving backwards is placing lots of stress on your knees while they are already in an unnatural position. When skiing forwards you naturally lean and bend your knees to turn, but skiing backwards you put the stress on your straightened downhill leg in order to turn. The muscles on the sides of your legs are actually pretty weak compared to those on the front/back of them, which is why i think your knees have shifted and your having pain. This is all theoretical, I am not  doctor.

The bottom line is do not continue to carve backwards so much, i think its creating more problems for you than its accomplishing.

May 17 2013 2:37PM
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B.Aussie
Posts: 5852 - Karma: 4,531
Click for larger image

Do your arches collapse inwards, making your feet flatter than normal people?
May 17 2013 8:59PM
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scrambledeggs
Posts: 380 - Karma: -1,291
you need to scissor
May 17 2013 11:56PM
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nella12
Posts: 118 - Karma: 14
So what it sounds like from what you're describing is that you have an exaggerated q-angle(the angle measured from the top of your femur to the knee cap). This is usually a structural thing and can lead to knee cap misalignment, which I think is what your doctor means when he says your knees are misaligned. This is a contributing factor to patellar femoral jt dysfunction/ knee cap misalignment (the way your knee cap tracks on your femur), which sounds like you have from the pain that you've described. There's a very good chance that you've had an exaggerated q angle all of your life and just something this year, like skiing more than usual or just skiing with poorly fitted boots, has somehow messed with your muscles around your knees and now they aren't pulling at the right ratios and thus now you are having a patellar tracking problem. You should be careful about this because if you don't correct these things, it can lead to more serious injuries like blowing out an acl or dislocating your patella.
May 18 2013 10:53AM
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nella12
Posts: 118 - Karma: 14
And pt usually isn't that bad. They'll be working with you on a lot of single leg work trying to get the muscles to fire correctly and trying to get you more stable at your hip so the q angle is less of an issue

Sorry about the double post.

Hope I helped some!
May 18 2013 10:58AM
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Crispy.
Posts: 6116 - Karma: 7,712
My knees are super messed up after this season too. I don't know what it is, but they hurt terribly 6/7 days of the week. Like I can barely stand up if im squatted down. Kinda scares me too cause they should feel as bad as they do since I'm only 15
May 18 2013 11:04AM
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wasatch_rat
Posts: 1772 - Karma: 2,952
if you're 15 and your knees feel that bad you aren't taking care of them. stay in shape, work on balance, and be sure to stretch every day. i know it doesn't seem like it will make a big difference but every year that goes by you will be more and more glad you did. your body is still maturing so if you can get it flexible and into proper alignment now you will vastly improve your bodies long-term durability.
May 18 2013 9:11PM
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Crispy.
Posts: 6116 - Karma: 7,712
I should stretch more probably...any stretches that will specifically help my knees or just the old touch your toes? I think part of the reason they hurt so bad is from 95 day skiing season, trampolining, and weightlifting for football.
May 18 2013 10:37PM
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wasatch_rat
Posts: 1772 - Karma: 2,952
yea that'll do it. and with flexibility, it helps to be an overall thing. hips, thighs (quads and hamstrings), back and calves. you would be amazed how much a 45 minute yoga routine can help if its done every day. foam rollers on the it bands (outer part of your thigh) has helped me a lot as well.

heres a few yoga routines i found online that are supposed to be good for your knees.
http://www.doyogawithme.com/content/yoga-athletes-mogul-muncher
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8wSDS9wcUw

the doyogawithme website has all kinds of good videos too.
May 18 2013 11:16PM
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*ninja*
Posts: 2108 - Karma: 1,143
I have this thing called oshgood shllaters its like inflamion depending on how old u r this cud be your problem. Very common for people under 18. Unfoutanetly there's nothing u can do other than pop advils and ice.
May 19 2013 12:29AM
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