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284,000 College grads making minimum wage.

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ski4fun420
Posts: 902 - Karma: 842
http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post=60c2d77c-2d2b-4920-8156-4fb05e443d93?

WTF is going on?
Apr 2 2013 11:46AM
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Karma_Police
Posts: 2655 - Karma: 1,628
How did you figure out you wanted to do graphic design in college and then decide to major in what you did?  I'm confused at this statement.  I don't disagree that college is a lot more than a piece of paper but I switched majors 4 times before I found mechanical engineering.

I like what I do and ski 50 days a year while making bank.  It took me 5.5 years to graduate college but I'm happy what I'm doing and I'm now debt free.


If you're gonna go to college go for something YOU'RE passionate about, or something YOU like to do and want to do for the rest of your life.  I would much rather see kids stay in school for 7 years and come out doing something they want to do than flunk out of engineering and say oh, well I'll just get a degree in communications and be done in 4 or 4.5.


Apr 2 2013 4:55PM
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theater.thug
Posts: 441 - Karma: 671
Look at the .gifs above It was a joke
Apr 2 2013 4:57PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
really? who is telling you this?

I know that at least for geologists things aren't as good as they were 5 years ago. I've been told by many people in the industry that there are just too many geologists graduating right now.

I don't think it's wrong to choose money over something you enjoy. It's just that there are other ways to get high paying jobs that require less time and money commitment than a university degree.
Apr 2 2013 5:04PM
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Edward.
Posts: 9366 - Karma: 445
I know the perfect solution for you... JOIN VEMMA! All I ask of you is to buy a box of energy drinks for 600 dollars and you'll be on your way out of college debt in no time.
Apr 2 2013 5:05PM
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johnnyBuz
Posts: 1438 - Karma: 1,270
I'm about to graduate with a Masters in Finance and I am still having a hard time finding a job that I believe matches my qualifications and pays accordingly ($60-70k base + $15-30k bonus depending on the job).

If you want to be guaranteed a job at graduation, you need to major in a STEM (science, technology, engineering or math). That is your quickest way to a 100,000 job short of starting your own business.

Even in my field, a Finance degree is seen as sort of an "easy" major but it offers a much higher earnings potential than accounting which is boring as fuck.

The goal for me is 2 years in investment banking and then on to private equity but who knows if I'll ever get there. Front Office finance positions are competitive as fuck to get. I fucked up in undergrad which is why I'm in a masters program now and just getting back on my feet.

Stay the fuck away from useless degrees like art, anthropology, history, sociology, philosophy, etc. sure, take a few electives if you want to learn about it but for the love of god get a degree in something with marketable skills.
Apr 2 2013 5:08PM
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Karma_Police
Posts: 2655 - Karma: 1,628
This is just absolutely wrong.

What is the placement rate for a phsych major vs a civil engineer.  2/8 vs 9/10?

Yes people should be going for what THEY want to go for but don't play ignorant when you come out of school with no career ops.

Be fucking cognisant of the demand for labor in your degreed' market.

Do I like to toot my own horn because I'm a degreed ME?  Sure, but I also went to a big 10 public university and graduated with an engineering degree.  You know what I always banked on for passing grades?  My gen eds, NOT my engineering courses.

I don't think anyone will disagree that engineering degrees are harder to achieve than certain liberal arts degrees but that's not what I'm pointing out.  I'm simply pointing out that the number of graduates for both should be somewhat equal and they're not even close.  Why is that?  As countless others have said because we have too many people enrolled in college.

But alas, when someone figures out how to make society not REJECT a non college applicant for certain jobs(jobs where you don't need a degree) then we'll actually be getting somewhere.  Until that time people have to get degrees to live up to societies stupid standards.

Apr 2 2013 5:08PM
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johnnyBuz
Posts: 1438 - Karma: 1,270
Ps: I just read today that 50% of the graduating class of 2010 college graduates are working jobs that don't require a college degree. The unemployment rate for people under the age of 25 is something around 16%.
Apr 2 2013 5:09PM
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Karma_Police
Posts: 2655 - Karma: 1,628
When have you ever seen an under supply of english grads?

Sure engineering degrees are largely based on construction and thus tied hand in hand to how well the economy is doing but we'll ALWAYS need a large number of them to help run the country.

Maybe i'm just blind to the need of lots of liberal arts students.  Then again maybe we're flooding those majors because society says we need a piece of paper and thats the easiest way to get one.


Apr 2 2013 5:11PM
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Karma_Police
Posts: 2655 - Karma: 1,628
I don't EVER remember a time where a degree in geology had great job placement(maybe a LONG time ago when college wasn't a requirement).  Of course there are more geologists graduating right now, our colleges are flooded.


Apr 2 2013 5:18PM
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Barefootin_Fiend
Posts: 7618 - Karma: 4,727
so was i, but in that post I was talking about the kind of money you can make with those undergrad degrees. it's basically a joke until you pursue graduate education and I don't feel that a lot of kids are aware of that right away.
Apr 2 2013 5:24PM
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Abu_Hajaar
Posts: 2749 - Karma: 3,907
This doesn't apply to most of those people but this is what happens when you get a useless degree (history, women's studies, ect...).
Apr 2 2013 5:31PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
If you want to further your intellectual prowess, go to the library (or at least take community college courses). Don't spend an absurd amount of money (or possibly incur a suicidal amount of debt) just so you can get a piece of paper that validates some ambiguous semblance of intellectual worth as a thinking person, at the expense of having any practical value in society.

Sorry, but the guy majoring as an accountant without a shred of interest is smarter than the guy majoring in, say, fine arts (because it's like, his passion, man). Why? Because the accountant has invested his time and tuition into a fiscally secure future, and if he has a passion for fine arts, there's nothing stopping him from pursuing that (read: go to the fucking library). Furthermore, because he makes more money, it will also be easier for him to return to a college to take classes for the sole purpose of pursuing his interests. And since he got a degree that actually puts food on the table the first time around, he can take select classes freely without any concern for further merit (i.e. graduating a second time). And no, this isn't a two-way street. You simply cannot go to the library and learn to be an accountant/lawyer/doctor/engineer/etc.

The fine arts major spent his time and money getting certified in an inherently ambiguous field with zero practical value. I don't mean these degrees won't enrich everyday life - if you go to school without becoming civilized in the arts/sciences/language/philosophy to some basic degree, you have failed. What I'm saying is that these degrees have no financial value. You are literally taking a huge sum of money, throwing it at an institution which sells readily available information (often for free) at tremendous markup, and coming out with no boost in socioeconomic potential.

Do you see the misapplication of resources here? It's like buying a Lamborghini for the sole purpose of taking your kids to soccer practice. The car isn't any less impressive, but the context in which you bought and used it is ludicrous. Contrary to original aims of academia, college has lost its integrity; it isn't simply for getting educated anymore. The reason you pay all those bogus fees and jump through those hoops is to get that stupid piece of paper that does little more than put your name in the call-back pile (exceptions include highly specialized technical fields). If you sacrifice all that time and money for such academic overkill, you are detrimentally idealist in my opinion. Not to mention, most "safe" degrees encompass most, if not all, the communicative and philosophical aspects (among others) of their respective majors. I'm a finance major and let me tell you, I was not expecting to do this much philosophy.

Yes, there's something to be said for the Kerouacian life approach; it takes balls to pursue what you love and never let anyone fault you for that. But to downplay the inherent dangers of such an approach is grossly negligent and, like I said, painfully utopist; you simply can't make the argument that attending university for an impractical major (however life-enriching it may be) is economically viable.
Apr 2 2013 5:32PM
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BrewskiJr
Posts: 5738 - Karma: 1,478
Wow. This is a perfect response to this thread.
Apr 2 2013 5:40PM
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johnnyBuz
Posts: 1438 - Karma: 1,270
10/10 this is the truth.
Apr 2 2013 5:41PM
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Lemuel
Posts: 14487 - Karma: 10,635
It is true many of the times that your major really doesn't matter that much. Your experience is much more worth while. Interships are key. But majoring in something stupid like psychology, philosophy, art, etc is such a waste of money. Absolutely useless degrees, what are you getting out of them?

I am a Parks, Recreation, and Tourism major. It's basically a business degree specializing in tourism with an environmental aspect. I love everything about it. It has lead to me getting a fantastic internship where I learned a ton about SEO and SEM. It's all about networking, making connections, gaining experience, and learning important life and work skills.

A few people have mentioned this, but the trades are the best fields to go into right now.
Apr 2 2013 5:47PM
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SkiBum.
Posts: 3600 - Karma: 3,909
Look what that degree got ya? You get to babysit jibbers on a website.
Apr 2 2013 5:49PM
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Chron_Rabbit
Posts: 988 - Karma: 1,567
I feel like college doesn't take you as far as it used to. Everyone has a degree nowadays

-coming from a highschooler
Apr 2 2013 5:52PM
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Barefootin_Fiend
Posts: 7618 - Karma: 4,727
no offense, but it's kid of hard to talk about majoring in something stupid like psychology and then turn around and say you're a Parks and Rec major.....
Apr 2 2013 5:54PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
You also can't go to a library and learn what fine arts/humanities students do in college...
Apr 2 2013 6:07PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
At the bachelor degree level, it's entirely possible. Masters, no way.
Apr 2 2013 6:11PM
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BrewskiJr
Posts: 5738 - Karma: 1,478
Really? Learn how to draw? Learn how to do graphic design? Program? Yeah. The library has tons of books on these and it's not that difficult to get into.
Apr 2 2013 6:13PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
No, it isn't.
Apr 2 2013 6:13PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Not with that attitude, at least.
Apr 2 2013 6:15PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
But just reading a bunch of books isn't the same as getting guidance from an actual person. Being in a class with a professor and other students will make you notice so many more things in a text than you would if you were just reading it on your own.
Apr 2 2013 6:16PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
Yeah, learning how to draw. There are techniques, styles, etc. that you won't get on your own. You can sit there and draw as long as you want, but without a trained, critical eye you'll plateau extremely quickly and your work will stop improving.
Apr 2 2013 6:18PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
A) They have books for that, too. There's volumes upon volumes dedicated to academic discourse that picks apart literature. Sure it might be easier to have a professor hold your hand and guide you through the textbooks, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to get a hold of the material without paying ridiculous tuition and reading it yourself, since the subject matter is inherently easier than highly-technical regimented trades.

B) In new media fields (e.g. graphic design), 90% of the "guidance" you receive is your teachers telling you to Google it. If they were really qualified at what they did, they would be off making six figures, not teaching.
Apr 2 2013 6:22PM
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Rachy
Posts: 4355 - Karma: 2,761
Since 7th grade, I thought archaeology was my path. But in college, they opened a new lab in the IT department in which students could go and do their multimedia projects. I need a job, that one was flexible so I applied and got it. After learning all of the software and helping so many students with their projects, I opted to take a few classes in media/design and ended up with a minor in digital media arts. But when I actually made an attempt to switch majors, I only had 2 classes left of anthro and 2 semesters of GE (I was an overly ambitious freshmen) and they wouldn't allow me to add on the major, even as a double major. I would have had to reapply or go to grad school. I tried, but the Cal system is a little weird.

But what I said still stands true, I figured out that I wanted to do marketing/digital media while in uni. If I hadn't gone, who the fuck knows where I would be. Probably working retail or managing a skate shop or still working at Buck Hill. Nothing wrong with any of that, but I doubt I would be as happy or had the experiences I have had now.
Apr 2 2013 6:28PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
A.) Not what I meant, but okay. Even if you do go that route...good luck really understanding any of that stuff on your own.

B.) Don't know anything about graphic design, but this doesn't happen for any other of the fine arts.
Apr 2 2013 6:28PM
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KravtZ
Posts: 6637 - Karma: 2,629
LOL these stats are so fucking stupid. So many kids go to school , get a 2.0 GPA just get by and party 7 nights a week and major in communications. 284,000 kids isn't really that many kids in the grand scheme of things.

I HATE how people push ohhh go study what you like mentaliy. It doesn't work like that. Someone majoring in english, just because it interests them doesn't develop any skills that an employer would find attractive.

If you don't major in a STEM major you fucked up. Even if you don't want to go into the field your studying for, its the most attractive major, with the best chance for employment.

As a finance major with a good GPA, I can get any job over any english, philosophy, communicatinos, etc major just because I graduated in a hard degree that shows intellect.
Apr 2 2013 6:32PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
I'm sure there are plenty of employers out there who would value having someone who is a good writer.
Apr 2 2013 6:41PM
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Rachy
Posts: 4355 - Karma: 2,761
Oh what it is to be 20 and know everything.


Can't wait for you all to have children and kill their passions.
Apr 2 2013 6:42PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Yes, it will be the parents' fault instead of the young adult who was foolish enough to both blindly follow their parents' advice as well as not take heed to the economic climate before making one of the biggest purchases of their life...

Be careful not to assume that our actions are consistent with our beliefs. The U.S. schooling system is fucked, and floating along in denial doesn't help. Might as well accept it and learn to play ball.
Apr 2 2013 6:50PM
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Dingo69
Posts: 1330 - Karma: -171
Alot of people actually are
Apr 2 2013 6:54PM
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Dr.Rick_Marshall
Posts: 407 - Karma: 44
There is really no four year degree that guarantees a job or successful future. Practically all the degrees people are mentioning require masters or phd work. The only four year degrees that I have seen consistently graduating students into jobs is agbusiness, agsci, accounting, and finance. Otherwise everyone else is usually in the same situation. I graduated last year with History and Political science. From my experience I had more internship opportunities throughout school and job offers my senior year than my friends in the business program that was over saturated with mediocre students. I graduated with better grades, better recommendations, and because of a high gpa and performance I was able to graduate with practically no debt due to scholarships. I did something that I enjoyed and worked hard, that is what makes the difference. The ability to research and write is a lot more applicable to the job market than chemistry or math is. Being successful in finding a job really doesnt come down to what degree you got in college but a lot more in being able to market yourself to potential employers. I am actually suprised that the number is not higher, when you are in college you realize that going to school is not the same as being a functioning member of society no matter what degree you are in. I guarantee you if you do well in any degree and have some ambition there is plenty of opportunity when you graduate. College is to easy to get into these days and the reason we see numbers like this is because there are hundreds of thousands of students that come into school do the bare minimum and barely graduate. Whether they are liberal arts or something else. I can also guarantee you my course load in History and Polisci was no easier than my brothers undergrad engineering degree.
Apr 2 2013 6:57PM
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t-roy
Posts: 4041 - Karma: 52

You will spend a large part of your life working, so always try to find some enjoyment out of your job/career no matter how much you get paid. I think you will feel much more fulfilled in the end.

Fortunately I love my job and started making great money right out of school due to my career choice.
Apr 2 2013 7:22PM
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BrewskiJr
Posts: 5738 - Karma: 1,478
haha no shit. Art isn't useless if you end up being Picasso.

We are talking about planning for the future. You really want to bank your entire career based off a TINY TINY chance you will get into this type of program? And if you didn't you might as well start college over? Exactly.
Apr 2 2013 7:27PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
OK first of all I am from canada, so things might be a bit different here. I think the average student graduates with less than 20k debt. It doesn't take a lifetime to pay that off.

You just simply can't get any education by yourself. You need access to labs, you need to be able to talk to profs, lectures help. Do you think someone without a degree is going to get a grant for independent research? Probably not. I also said "liberal arts" not "fine arts" I have no idea what a fine arts education is like at all but I would assume it's similar.

I tried getting a degree in something with "practical value" and it sucked. I think geologists are awesome people. But there is no denying that a lot of them don't give a shit about geology and are doing it for the money. Switching to physics was the best decision of my life. Most people in physics are actually stoked on physics. For example on thursday we are all meeting before class because we wanted more time to present some of our term-projects to each other. In geology I guarantee that few people would show up to this.

Even if I had to work at starbucks after graduating I would not regret my decision to switch (although I wont have to, a physics degree can land me a job just as easily as a geology degree). I just don't see the point in wasting away my life doing something for "financial security". I don't think it's stupid to go into engineering or anything. I'm just sick of people telling others to choose a degree that provides good job opportunities. In Alberta they fucking pound that into highschoolers head. Even when I switched, everyone back home though it was because geophysicists are in higher demand right now.



Apr 2 2013 7:55PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
i.e 284,000 liberal arts grads
Apr 2 2013 7:59PM
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Parrish
Posts: 8695 - Karma: 1,008
I agree with this, most of the pure physics and pure chem people usually seem to get recycled back into the educational field to teach other majors that need chem and physics.
Apr 2 2013 8:03PM
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Barefootin_Fiend
Posts: 7618 - Karma: 4,727
absolutely, but it's a worthless undergrad degree unless you go back to pursue graduate education. hence the point i was making a post or two prior.
Apr 2 2013 8:31PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51642 - Karma: 162,187
Not surprised I mean people are spending 60k and getting degrees in the dumbest most useless things. I mean it's cool that your college offers a class called sit here and do nothing, but that doesn't mean somebody is going to hire you because you got a 4 year degree in it.


This whole "you have to go to college" notion needs to be destroyed. I'm not even arguing whether or not college is beneficial to many. The idea that "YOU HAVE TO" go to college is retarded.

Many people go to college not because they want to further their education in a specific field but because it's what everybody does. That's a shit reason to drop 15k a year IMO. Especially with an economy that continues to get worse, that seems like a giant waste.

If you're going to college that's great, but if you going just because and getting some bullshit degree, don't bitch that you didn't come out with a job making 100k.


Apr 2 2013 8:37PM
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Barefootin_Fiend
Posts: 7618 - Karma: 4,727
lololol
Apr 2 2013 8:44PM
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Kajex
Posts: 1069 - Karma: 178
I graduated last summer with a Bachelors of Architecture. During my 3rd year the Dean of Architecture sat the entire school down and basically told us that the profession was in the worst shape that it has been in during his life (and he is pretty old). This scared the shit out of a lot of kids, and rightfully so. Many switched majors, some dropped out (though I feel like those kids would have dropped out anyway). I stuck with it, but with the mentality that I was not going to get a well paying job right out of the gates. I was lucky enough to land a few interviews right as I graduated. I did what I had to, and basically said I'd work for less than other applicants. I started at my current firm very low (a bit above minimum but compared to the gross amount of student debt I have, might as well be). Over the last 7 months I have been working my ass off, learning as much as I can, and volunteering for EVERYTHING. I've gotten two substantial raises so far (first one was +25%) and my boss said I'll be getting another this month based on how well I'm doing. I didn't do any internships during school. I'd never worked in an office before. My GPA wasn't even that good (below 2.6). I'm succeeding by doing. Accept the fact you won't start out making tons of money. Hell, between loan repayment, my car payment, phone bill, insurance, gas money, food, etc. I actually was losing 10$ a month for the first couple months. Work hard. Insanely hard. If your boss needs someone to drive him to the airport at 4AM, volunteer. If there's part of the job that people seem to dislike, volunteer to help. Others will notice the effort you are putting forth, and will give you more responsibility, and with that, more money.
Apr 2 2013 8:54PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
certainly not "most" of them. Getting a postdoc is tough enough. Getting a teaching position is very tough. tenure-track is the dream, but the chances of getting that make almost anything else look good in comparison.

Apr 2 2013 9:00PM
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Edward.
Posts: 9366 - Karma: 445
It's probably because so many kids admire some of the stupidest people in america, such as the drug dealing rapper, the coked out pop singer, and the idiot who was on a tv show simply for being an idiot.
Apr 2 2013 10:05PM
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Darth.Maul
Posts: 2472 - Karma: 652
Hell ya man! Im going into chemical engineering and thinking of focusing on biochem eng after my undergrad. (they dont offer a specific biochem eng degree at my school)

My hope is that one day i can either develop new medicines or work as a process engineer at a major pharmeceutecal company.
Apr 2 2013 10:25PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
i really think it comes down to how you apply yourself. I will be working for a company after graduation that hires a variety of majors. (probs not psych majors though) and thats because they value diversity of education, and place a high value on problem solving. (if youre smart youre smart) I really think it comes down to the person. I know plenty of english majors that run intellectual circles around biz management majors. or even worse "international" biz majors. it really comes down to the person.

if i am ever involved in the interview process I wont be disqualifying english majors, and showing preference to business majors. might even be the opposite. maybe its just my cynical self, but getting a degree in biz mgmt is in my eyes like making yourself obsolete from the beginning. your degree doesnt offer much value IMO.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-37244200/8-reasons-not-to-get-a-business-degree/
Apr 2 2013 10:31PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
A business major is a liberal arts degree as far as I'm concerned.
Apr 2 2013 10:36PM
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LIL_WAT
Posts: 1900 - Karma: 475
This is precisely what happens when the Government subsidises education; people go out and get degrees (who wouldn't otherwise), resulting in an oversupply of pretty much every type of qualified employee, with many having to settle for crappy jobs.

This is, of course, after the money was first confiscated from the productive classes.


Apr 2 2013 10:39PM
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Tinga
Posts: 11349 - Karma: 2,333
eh college grads are generally still figuring out what they want to do with their education or where they want to live. having a whatever job for a couple months to a year is helpful to give you some time to figure it out.

I'm a college grad washing dishes at the moment because girl is still finishing up we don't exactly know where we are headed when she finishes. shitty jobs can also be fun because there is basically no consequence. I'm moving on soon but I'm glad I get to see how these things work.
Apr 2 2013 10:43PM
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