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Prop 8 and the Defense of Marraige Act

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Mr.Sloth
Posts: 5091 - Karma: 13,469
Prop 8 (California's ban on same sex marriage) is being argued in the Supreme Court today

The constitutionality of the Defense of Marraige Act is also being contended.

Where does NS stand on this issue? Do you think there will be any short or long term effects of these decisions (other than gay people getting married)?
Mar 26 2013 4:40PM
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FearlessBlackMan
Posts: 95 - Karma: -2
By your logic, I take it that you believe polygamy should also be legal?

Also, there is no right to be treated equally. People are created unequal thus it makes sense to treat them unequally.
Mar 26 2013 7:30PM
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Static
Posts: 8534 - Karma: 4,173
I do. If you support gay marriage but not polygamy you're just as bad as the prop8 pushing homophobes.
Mar 26 2013 7:32PM
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1440ski
Posts: 2049 - Karma: 1,110
I would like to know what everyone's stance is on this. I don't think you can validate gay marriage without validating polygamy as well.
Mar 26 2013 7:39PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
Slippery slope is not an argument.
Mar 26 2013 7:40PM
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Phil-X-
Posts: 7205 - Karma: 14,399
Lets stay true to our American ways.


Click for larger image
Mar 26 2013 7:41PM
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icon1234
Posts: 3081 - Karma: 1,475
I don't really have an opinion on polygamy so I can't answer that.

What does people being created unequally have to do with treatment of your fellow man?

Are you seriously that dumb?


Mar 26 2013 7:44PM
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foodbuffet11
Posts: 843 - Karma: 84
Christianity is a joke. However, the other day two gay guys broke into my house and penetrated me. WHy are people strongly against gay marriage, it's not like they are bothering you physically. There seems to be a social index, in which tools and religious freaks oppose such a foolish issue. Everyone will die someday; where just feeble-minded ants living on a planet that revolves around a star held in space by dark and black matter.
Mar 26 2013 7:44PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
Yeah. Except for the whole everyone's created equal, unalienable rights, and life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness bits
Mar 26 2013 7:45PM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
.
Mar 26 2013 7:47PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
"Equal" is a very vague and abstract idea. I think the best we can do is say everyone is equal in the sense that we all deserve to be treated with the same love, respect, consideration, etc. regardless of natural talents/abilities.
Mar 26 2013 7:48PM
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HitTheJim
Posts: 787 - Karma: 399
I agree, but I still think it would be interesting to see if the populace is consistent with their claims of marriage equality.
Mar 26 2013 7:53PM
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HitTheJim
Posts: 787 - Karma: 399
I see you're still struggling with the fact that the constitution and declaration of independence are two entirely separate documents serving two entirely different purposes. Lemme help you out a bit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Independence

Mar 26 2013 8:00PM
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FearlessBlackMan
Posts: 95 - Karma: -2
No, you can't answer that because you know your opinion will contradict your opinion about gay marriage.

It's only logical to treat people differently based on their unique traits; we all do it. I don't understand why you think there's a right to be treated equally. Do you also think a basketball team should treat a 7 foot tall player the same it treats a 5 foot tall player?
Mar 26 2013 8:04PM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
*held in space by God.
Mar 26 2013 8:06PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,506
Who cares 3ways everyday would be awesome.
Mar 26 2013 8:08PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
So you don't think the ideas laid out in the Dec. of Independence (everyone created equal, unalienable right to pursue life, liberty, pursuit of happiness) are some of the founding principles of the country? Because the Constitution and other legislation has proven, time and time again, not to uphold them.
Mar 26 2013 8:08PM
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HitTheJim
Posts: 787 - Karma: 399
America was not founded on the Declaration of Independence, it was founded on the Constitution. The Declaration has no impact on American law and thus no legislative action needs to adhere to the principles outlined in the Declaration.
Mar 26 2013 8:17PM
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icon1234
Posts: 3081 - Karma: 1,475
I absolutely do think the basketball team should treat that 7 foot player and that 5 foot player the same legally. I don't think the 7 foot basketball player should receive special treatment in the rules of basketball than the 5 foot person. Do I think the basketball team should treat both the 7 foot player and the 5 foot player equally in terms of human rights? Absolutely. Do I think they should be paid the same? No, unless the 5 ft guy is really good at his job.

Again what does being created unequal have to do with treatment of your fellow man?

You keep trying to ask "cleaver" questions to try and debunk my argument, it's not really working for you though.
Mar 26 2013 8:17PM
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shocker611
Posts: 2599 - Karma: 423
This right hurrr. I think that the only thing that the government should be involved in is some sort of a civil union and thats all that it should be. Then people and churches can decide if they want to marry gay couples. I don't understand why the government is involved in the first place besides name changes.
Mar 26 2013 8:17PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
I realize that. Point is those principles are supposed to hold a lot of weight in America and on American law, yet they are often blatantly disregarded. Like you said, the Constitution supposedly outlines and upholds the principles on which our country was founded, aren't the principles in the Declaration of Independence supposed to be some of them?
Mar 26 2013 8:29PM
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HitTheJim
Posts: 787 - Karma: 399
No they are not. I have reiterated that like 4 times. You are either trolling or stupid, in either case I quit.
Mar 26 2013 8:49PM
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Stose
Posts: 7109 - Karma: 4,123
Because for married couples their are things like health insurance if your spouse dies, and other benefits along those lines that same sexy couples can't receive
Mar 26 2013 8:53PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
Thats what hes saying. All couples, straight or gay, should receive a civil union.

Marriage as a term should be up to the religious institution that performs your union, however in the eyes of the government, both straight and gay couples are in a civil union, the marriage term is irrelevant.
Mar 26 2013 8:54PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
this makes sense until you realize that marriages are a legal matter, and therefore the government must have a hand in them.

Mar 26 2013 8:55PM
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corona
Posts: 12773 - Karma: 32,557
lol at USA still stuck in the 20th century
Mar 26 2013 8:57PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
I don't think I've ever heard anyone argue this before, but okay. We're not going to agree, so, you're right, lets stop.
Mar 26 2013 9:00PM
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HitTheJim
Posts: 787 - Karma: 399
The problem lies in the fact that marriage is regarded as a legal issue rather than a religious issue, and that is the point he is making.
Mar 26 2013 9:01PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
so the point he was making was more about the terminology used to describe the ceremony?

as in, marriage=civil union, but with marriage being religious and civil union being non-religious

Mar 26 2013 9:02PM
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HitTheJim
Posts: 787 - Karma: 399
I would assume so. My post was the one that he quoted when he said that so it makes sense that he was headed in that direction.
Mar 26 2013 9:09PM
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HitTheJim
Posts: 787 - Karma: 399
We're prolly in the 22nd century in terms of military technology though.
Mar 26 2013 9:11PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
but if that was the case, then from the government and legal standpoint, all couples would be considered a civil union anyway. I'd be willing to bet that religious folk wouldn't like applying for a civil union license or anything like that.

You could not discriminate and call only religious-ceremony joined couples married, and everyone else civil-unioned.
Mar 26 2013 9:12PM
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Squeenerd
Posts: 731 - Karma: 186
Ill tell you what I have an issue with. The gay community has shouted their opinions and views and the country has heard them and listened to them with respect (for the most part). The LGBT community wants to be treated with equality just like the rest of the citizens. They want people to listen to their views and accept them. What bothers me is that when someone voices their opinion, which is different than that of the opposing gay community, they are shot down and called homophobic. We Americans have our freedom of speech; we let those who support gay marriage speak, now let others who have different opinions be heard and not attacked.
Mar 26 2013 9:13PM
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foodbuffet11
Posts: 843 - Karma: 84
I understand you believe in a higher being. Religion: 12 disciples are the 12 signs of the zodiac. The sun is reborn every year on Dec 25th when it stops at it's lowest point in the sky and remains there for 3 days under the southern cross (crux) constellation. After 3 days it moves 1 degree north (the resurrection) and at easter, when the day is longer for the first time than the night, we then celebrate the resurrection of Christ due to the movement of the sun. I am a buddhist.
Mar 26 2013 9:14PM
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miroz
Posts: 10333 - Karma: 3,947
So then what's your opinion? Why do you oppose gay marriage?

And the reason most get attacked is because they're usually bigots.
Mar 26 2013 9:19PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
Seeing as gay marriage is illegal, I'm going to go out on a limb and say anti-gay marriage people have their voices plenty heard.
Mar 26 2013 9:23PM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18221 - Karma: 12,313
Hahahaha I like.
Mar 26 2013 9:31PM
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HitTheJim
Posts: 787 - Karma: 399
Essentially a marriage is a civil union but a civil union is not a marriage. If one were to get married they wouldn't need to file civil union papers because their marriage papers would grant them the same rights as civil union papers.

It's not discrimination, discrimination is what exists in the current system in which married couples are awarded different rights than civil union couples. Calling those joined by marriage married and calling those joined by civil union "civil-unioned" would simply be reality.
Mar 26 2013 9:44PM
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HitTheJim
Posts: 787 - Karma: 399
People are typically only shot down and called homophobic when their argument is absent of reason and seems homophobic or bigoted.
Mar 26 2013 9:50PM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
I trolled facebook by using my icon as my profile picture and 9 of my hillbilly friends ended up liking it. SMH.
Mar 26 2013 9:59PM
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FearlessBlackMan
Posts: 95 - Karma: -2
Exactly my feelings. I agree with their position, but they're so rude and condescending when arguing their stance that I want to punch most gay rights supporters square in the jaw. I'm a staunch libertarian, but if somebody put a gun to my head and made me vote Republican or Democrat, I'd definitely vote Republican on the basis that Democrats are fucking assholes.
Mar 26 2013 10:11PM
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spliff.Life
Posts: 7847 - Karma: 1,549
wow isnt politics great
Mar 26 2013 10:15PM
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HitTheJim
Posts: 787 - Karma: 399
Yeah because conservatives aren't rude and condescending when they recite Bible verses that tell gay people that they're worthless pieces of shit.
Mar 26 2013 10:21PM
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icon1234
Posts: 3081 - Karma: 1,475
What would you like them to say?

"Oh you disagree with the idea that I should be treated as equal you? Oh I am sorry you feel that way, lets begin this banter on the basis that you think you're better than me and deserve special treatment. I won't get angry at all with that notion."


Mar 26 2013 10:25PM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
So, you're okay with one side having freedom of speech, but not the other?

Also, lose the libertarian label that you gave to yourself, your obviously a conservative.

Mar 26 2013 10:36PM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
*you're
Mar 26 2013 10:36PM
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FearlessBlackMan
Posts: 95 - Karma: -2
I'm not saying Republicans can't be rude. I'm saying the average Democrat is more rude than the average Republican.
Mar 26 2013 10:39PM
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FearlessBlackMan
Posts: 95 - Karma: -2
I have told you my stance on exactly one issue: that I support gay marriage. How in the world do you conclude that I'm a Republican based on that information?

Also, I haven't said shit about free speech. I said Democrats are more condescending than Republicans.
Mar 26 2013 10:45PM
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Phil-X-
Posts: 7205 - Karma: 14,399
I feel like the problem is that dems will do everything in their power to make you feel like a terrible person whos wrong if you dont support their ideology VS conservatives who accept that others are able to have the freedom of choice even tho they disagree
Mar 26 2013 10:49PM
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ILLinoisance
Posts: 3527 - Karma: 5,398
Then why don't they give them the freedom of choice to get married?
Mar 26 2013 10:52PM
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miroz
Posts: 10333 - Karma: 3,947
If this was the case, there wouldn't be a debate about rights.
Mar 26 2013 10:56PM
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