11 Kids, 11 Seconds, And 1 Mind-Blowing, Hopeful Fact About The Sandy Hook Tragedy

Please enlighten me how a law needed to be followed in order to reduce gun violence would do anything to stop criminals who possess illegally obtained firearms?  Still have yet to hear that from you?

Wis skier. I don't have time but you have the most typical and most retarded arguments.

why don't you just legalize fully automatic weapons then so civilians can protect themselves from the criminals who can get them anyways?

quit using "what if" scenarios and isolated cases. I already said that in the first post.

either way it doesn't affect me because I live in a less fucked up country (harper is doing a good job trying to change that). We don't have the "right" to bear arms but we have a lot of real actual rights that america doesn't. In fact I have the right to live in a city where people aren't walking around with concealed guns.

you can all have fun with your guns and shitty food and declining economy and all the other stuff that has turned the greatest country in the world into a the worlds greatest shit stain.

PS. The PNW is welcome to join us.

I dont want to get off subject and into this argument with you, but the drug WAR, private healthcare, and high tuition are not restricting peoples freedom... it depends on what you are referring to as the drug war, but i would tend to think of that as the illegal drug trafficking between gangs and over the mexican border. I agree that marijuana and certain other drugs should be legal here, yes i do think that our freedom is taken away when it comes to that. but why would that make it ok to take away more freedom? as far as private healthcare, that IS a freedom, as public healthcare is something you are FORCED into. high tuition? you are free to pay it, go somewhere cheaper, or not go to college at all.

my second cousin was shot and bled to death while walking down the street with her family in Johannesburg.

my dad himself has been shot at with fully automatic weaopns

my grandma and my late grandfather were robbed by people who would have likely just killed them to rob the house. my dad went to stop them with just a knife.

So I also have stories of people close to me in similar situation. That doesn't mean you should have the right to carry a gun to protect yourself. I was still taught that that is for pussies. No one should have the right to point a gun at someone in order to stop a robbery. The only time it would be acceptable to point a gun at someone is if they are already pointing a gun at you, and at that time it's too late for you and the best thing you could do is try and reason with them.

last summer one of the gun loving bitches from down south somehow had the balls to step foot in a foreign country (canada). They pulled a gun on a person handing out free tickets to an event. It was so weird it made the front page of the news because shit like that just doesn't happen here.

fully automatic weapons are legal to own, its just a process to acquire them. care to tell me how many crimes are committed with legally owned fully automatic weapons? you will probably end up somewhere right around 0.

see, i was taught being afraid of an imaginary problem that doesnt exist, purely because the media makes it sound mean and scary, was for pussies.

You mean like the inevitability of you getting into a guns-drawn standoff with an unnamed criminal?

There are plenty of good reasons to own guns, hell Im not even that gun control happy, (aside from better background checks/cut down on straw sales/loopholes), but this whole, "I am going to gun down any criminal coming after me" one is a) absurd, and b) a recipe for disaster.





Also, why concealed carry? Cool, carry a gun, but let me see it. Hell, shouldn't that deter a robber even more? Since they can see your armed and all. Go ahead and carry your piece with you into Walmart, church, etc. But I'd like to know whose packing and who isn't so I dont become a human backstop when someone decides to defend themselves from a "would be robber".

^open carry is an excellent way to have every unkowledgable bystander call the cops on you.

whatever. can we just agree that america is a shitty violent country with lots of guns?

I would just rather live in any other developed country because there are far less stupid ignorant fucks.

again this is an outside looking in thing. and i'm pretty fucking glad i'm on the outside.

Your an idiot if you feel safer with peper spray than a gun. You do know the vast majority of bears do not care at all if you spray them not to mention they have to within 10ish feet to be effective. When we go hiking i get the gun and you can have the spray.

Your dad's decision to stop them with a knife was his choice but I bet he wished he had a gun in that situation so he wouldn't have to get in a hand to hand combat situation.

I was merely giving you an example of how recently in the news a Concealed Carry owner saved someones life by carrying a firearm.  Without that firearm she would have likely been beaten to death or more severely injured.  You are so eager to point out all the lives that are taken through gun violence but reject any lives that are saved as the result of RESPONSIBLE gun ownership. 

It is all the same arguments with you anti gun people, you throw around the same gun rhetoric I have heard a million times and when I give you a proposed solution the only argument you have is your retarded.  I am surprised I haven't heard a, "my dad could beat up your dad" response with that kind of logic. 

You were taught that guns are for pussies?  What logic lead you to that conclusion?  Why should it not be a right to defend yourself as well as other people against a criminal?  Criminals are always armed so you might as well level the playing field so you are not the victim.  It is funny how people love the safety guns provide such as how they protect us (aka the police force) but honest citizens owning guns?  That would be too dangerous and scary. 

Ok but wheres the safety net man. For driving a car there are so many rules and regulations be cause you can kill people and the vehicle isn't even meant to kill. Its ilegal to kill someone with a car yet the road laws don't just stop there you need a license, register your car, have insurance, follow the rules of the road ect. The law saying you can't kill someone is not good enough. Extended clips are like speeding they may not always end up in a bad situation but if it does it gives a bad guy a couple more shots and it can make a situation quite a bit worse.

they psycho gun nuts on fox news give concealed carry guys a bad name. ive taken a concealed carry class, i dont carry, but just wanted to take the class more for the knowledge. they teach you to avoid pulling your gun unless absolutely necessary, like in life threatening situations. if a guns already pointed at you, how to get out of the situation without pulling yours (pulling yours will just make them shoot while your still drawing) i know a of people personally who carry, only one of the has ever pulled it, and he actually did have to, a guy on PCP was coming at him with a knife and he shot him in the leg and stopped him, the guy lived, happy time.

this is just not true at all. Bearspray has been shown to be overwhelmingly more effective than guns against grizzly bears.

Well i dont blame you for thinking its a shit hole, the media sure makes it look like that, but i will say that its completely ignorant to assume so. i guess ill agree that 40-50% of it is, and thats the only side that gets any attention, we do have some absolute shit holes, and i have no idea why people would even consider living or visiting there. ive traveled all over the place, almost to every continent, and i still havent found anywhere id prefer to live over certain places in the US. CERTAIN parts of texas, utah, colorado, montana, etc.. are some of the nicest places ive ever been, with some of if not the nicest people. but there isnt crime there so you dont hear about it. a good way to put it would be we are like a bunch of little countries. some suck and some are awesome.

this is probably only true because people attempt to protect themselves with a small round like a 9mm or whatever. you have to go big if you are carrying a gun for bear protection. the people i know dont carry anything much smaller than a 44 mag. smaller rounds will just piss them off and probably put you in more danger.

those rules and regulations dont prevent cars from killing like 3x as many people as guns per year. when you get into a wreck, you most likely arent following the rules of the road.. 16,000 people die per year from alcohol related crashes, you are knowingly endangering peoples lives the second you get into that car. those rules and regulations dont stop drunk drivers.. and since when does not having insurance/registration/a license stop people from driving?

I have a professor who has a masters in bear biology. She said lets be honest bear dont give a shtick about pepper spray. How the hell is a dead bear more dangerous than a pissed off one?

who the fuck goes into the woods with a 9mm?

this study was done in alaska, not fucking los angeles or something. I guarantee the smallest round fired at those bears was a 308.

and theres over 4x as many registered guns as there is cars...nice try though.

woops backwards statistics

it's not. but you don't have a good chance of dropping it before it hits you. An injured pissed off grizzly is the most dangerous situation you can have. pepper spray completely deprives the bears of its senses.

Have you even had a bear encounter?

you'd be surprised what ive heard about around here..

Yup. Thankfully i didnt have to use any pepperspray. If you know your way around a gun a injured pissed off grizzly will not occur. Not to mention even some humans can recover from bear spray pretty dam quick. And then you will have an uninjured pissed off grizzly which is the worst.

so around 10k gun related homocides per year vs 34,000-45,000 car related deaths per year, woopie..

wait are you trying to say if you know what you're doing with a gun you will kill the bear? because this is just totally not fucking true at all. unless you are sitting behind a browning 50 or something there is a pretty good chance you are not going to kill that bear before it hits you.

you have the time for one or two shots and you have to place it on a small target moving at 50km/h. Even if you do manage to overcome your nerves and give it a well placed shot it's still up to luck whether it dies before it hits you or not.

grizzly bears attack humans in self defense. If you spray it and it runs away it will stay away. Pepper spray is guaranteed to hit the bear. It has more spread than and shot ever and more "stopping power" than all but the perfectly placed high calliber bullet.

this is totally off-topic but you can argue all you want about concealed carry and stuff but don't try and tell me a bullet is more effective against a bear than bearspray.

more spread than any shot ever could

Car deaths and gun deaths cant be compared. The average american spends way more time in a can then holding a gun. You can break any law you want to and there are penalties. Its against the law to not have insurance and not have a license. If some one is killed from an accident it is likely that someone broke some law. Laws are never expected to prevent all accidents but there definitely is a different in the number of deaths due to for example the seatbelt laws. Should we just have no laws for driving? and the only rule is try not to kill some one. I mean that would be safer wouldn't it?

of course this would turn into an argument about how to fight a bear. meanwhile, the next mass murderer is planning his move.

i really dont get what your trying to say, misuse of a car is dangerous, and misuse of a gun is dangerous. proper use of either is very safe. there are plenty of rules and regulations you have to follow with a gun, just like with a car.

Dude your completely forgetting that a bear has to within about 10 feet for spray to be effective. Ten feet is nothing for a bear spray in eyes or not.

I already have you little cunt. And don't you think it's slightly retarded to conclude that improved gun laws won't have any effect WHEN WE HAVE NEVER TRIED IT?

If we met in an alternate universe where squirt guns shot live ammo, I would shoot you in the fucking face with a Super Soaker XP105.




You are the reason why we should execute anyone with an I.Q. under 80 and an internet connection.

what the fuck bearspray are you using that only has 10" range?

You already have? I don't recall hearing an answer.  So I will spell it out for you.

Of the gun related crimes committed in America, most are done using illegally obtained firearms, most of which are cheap handguns which criminals can get for a couple hundred bucks.  VERY FEW involved are the oh so dangerous "Assault Weapons" or AR-15's as those who are actually educated about guns call them.  To give you an idea of how dangerous these AR-15's are, they are used in about one-fifth of one percent (.20%) of all violent crimes.   Ok so you implement a ban similar to the 1994 one and all civilian manufacturing of AR-15's stops.  There are already 4+ million Ar-15's in circulation so what is going to stop a criminal from illegally obtaining one of these 4 Million because shit its illegal for a felon to own a firearm and it still happens all the time.  

The fact that you want to go to such great lengths to ban a gun used in .20% of all violent crime shows me how out of touch you are.  I don't care where you stand politically you have to be out of your mind to go to think that banning a gun used in one fifth of one percent of all violent crime is really curbing crime. 

What is the point?  It can't be to stop mass shootings because the oh so famous Columbine Shooting happened during your Assault Weapons Ban.  Not to mention if AR-15's were banned, the Aurora shooting and Newtown would have happened anyways so now that we can put to rest that an Assault Weapons ban does nothing to stop a madman we will move on to magazine capacity once again.

The average rounds fired during crime is approx 3.5.  At that rate, even with a revolver you wouldn't have to reload once.  Regardless if you have to reload or not the violent crime is still committed so limiting the number of bullets you can legally carry does nothing to stop criminals altogether nor does it guarantee that criminals will even follow this law because we all know how well criminals follow laws.   If you think criminals are going to follow this magazine law you are out of your mind and may I remind you there are Millions of magazines over 10 rounds so it isn't hard to get your hands on one of those either.

So now that we see neither of your proposed solutions does anything to stop the crime from happening IN THE FIRST PLACE I bet you can sleep well at night knowing America is safer.

Once again you failed to answer my question and instead proceeded on your little temper tantrum like a kid who didn't get what he wanted at Toys-R-Us.  

So I will ask it again, What positive impact would stricter gun control have when law abiding citizens are the only ones who follow these laws? 

I would be interested to hear your answer to this question. 

Yeah it's in another thread, bitch. And that's a cool and long response, it just sucks that I don't care enough about you to read it.

And with that what little credibility you had left is gone......When I asked you to answer a simple question and I get a check another thread for it bitch?  From what I read your response was something along the lines of the percentage of AR-15 used in violent crime went down during the Assault Weapons Ban of 1994.  This is getting tiresome but your addressing the problem in the wrong areas.  There are obviously other factors that effect crime rates other than AR-15's and magazines over 10 rounds because violent crime has decreased 17 percent since the assault weapons ban expired.

Criminals aren't bound by laws in the first place so the only thing to stop them is a stricter punishment, it doesn't take a lot of common sense to understand that concept vs. stricter gun control.

yup 11 seconds. If your going to kill a bunch of people and have a bunch of guns I'm pretty sure you have enough time to learn how to reload under 11 seconds. Maybe this guy didn't learn how to reload fast since he had a high cap mag, if he didn't have one he would have just learned how to reload faster. Also if your going to kill a bunch of people your probably acquiring a lot of your shit illegally, so why not just illegally buy a high cap mag lol. The only people these changes hurt are law abiding citizens since those are the only people that will follow the new laws. The criminals are criminals either way and don't give a shit what you ban.

We already have its called Gun Free Zones.   By your logic those places would have the lowest violent crime rates due to a ban of all guns entirely yet Gun Free Zones see the highest violent crime rates in the US, what is this we have never tried it bullshit. 

AMEN! I have yet to hear Skierman's response to this issue and I am expecting the go check another thread bitch response like he is 4 years old.