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Some hard binding facts

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unionbowler
Posts: 67 - Karma: 10
i posted the following message elsewhere in the forums, but this is where it really belongs.
it's in response to discussion of bindings and how they look. now that the jib/park scence has it's own binding, here's some stuff to think about when you consider which binding to drape on your new twinners.

here you are arguing about the safety of the binding. that's what bindings are for, to release you before you mess up your knee. it's not the twisting motion in a twisting fall thát hurts your knee - it's when the binding does not release. when the built-up pressure from a twisting fall does not release within a very short distance, something has to give since the binding isn't, and it's your knee that ends up giving. so, look at the technology a binding has to let you release CONSISTANTLY IN REAL WORLD CONDITIONS - not just in the shop. certain well known french bindings (and a new vermot binding)have no rear-ward release, and those same bindings rely on friction for boot movement in a twisting fall. any time friction is relied upon, how are guaranteed consistant release? all you need is a rock, some ice or other foreign material between your boot and the binding and the actual release point will be much higher. so, go to a local dealer, and ask them about this. there is a certain german designed binding that has a full mechanical twisting release the toe of the boot initiates movement of a frictionless part of the toe - which moves with the boot sideways and outward) in the toe, and rearward release as well. technically, they are the safest binding in real-world release situations. ask them to show you how the different bindings move to let your boot relase. as a throw-in, the german binding company makes a their 'Free' bindings with a rubber stomp pad between the binding and ski to dissipate the shock of flat landing a huge air, just like the freeride specific boots have in their bootboards. no else has that in their binding...just some real technical facts and considerations...

Nov 12 2004 5:55AM
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zeckgx
Posts: 794 - Karma: 30
so your saying that lines are gonna brake my knees and that markers are the greatest in the world.... other then being biasly written good tech specs thanks
-------------------
just throw caution to the wind.
Member Since 2002-12-23
Member Number 12556
Nov 12 2004 9:37AM
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PowderCanuck
Posts: 2626 - Karma: 10
I'm not sure if he's saying marker. actualy i have no idea which binding he's repping


_______________________

Screw this I'm going skiing
Nov 12 2004 12:06PM
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Jib_This
Posts: 8272 - Karma: 9
Hard Facts or copying copy from a Marker ad?

Oh, and in case you and your boys at Marker hadn't noticed, the little slice of rubber under your bindings doesn't do shit. The binding, once screwed into the ski, compresses it too much for it to be useful.




'No i dont care about your post count, i care about you being a cocksucker.'
Crystalneedsa...
'My friend's and I formed a NO GIRLS ALLOWED club when we were little. Then we gave it up when girls made my penis get hard'
Midwest_rep
'I think skiing in general is just a phase'-My friend Josh.
Nov 12 2004 12:19PM
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dj_monster_
Posts: 620 - Karma: 12
^^^^^^^ YO! you just got TOLD! Marker blows. Looks are better. wait, there the best.

_______________________________________




What skiing will become$$$

Hey, does anyone know what would be better for me, a narcoleptic bulldozer, or an irish wolfhound who thinks he's Hillary Duff? - J.D._May


Not wearing poles is alot like getting a blowjob from a guy...It feels good until you look down and realize you're gay.
Nov 12 2004 12:27PM
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huckster989
Posts: 2147 - Karma: 12
hehe LOOK for life! marker and suck my healthy and safe knees


M~M~C


Work is like anti-hippie spray; they stay the fuck away from it

Nov 12 2004 12:56PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,143
Rossi bindings have saved my knees on several occasions. At one point, I was sure I was screwed, and that they weren't going to come off (because of the angle of the fall, it was on a rail), but they came right off. And yet, they never come off when i don't want them to. Anyways, I trust 'em. I've had marker just pop off on landings more than a few times... and I'd hate to see that happen at full speed in the bumps. Not releasing is dangerous... but releasing when you're not expecting it can be equally dangerous.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Nov 12 2004 1:31PM
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skihillraod
Posts: 1852 - Karma: 45
I want to trade all my looks in for pro comp 180 freerides. They are unbelievably light and dreamy. They are probably identicle to fks (155/185)binders but whatever. My p14's and p12's look like pieces of shit next to these.
Nov 12 2004 1:51PM
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Jib_This
Posts: 8272 - Karma: 9
Let's put it this way: Marker has a great reputation for prereleasing, due to their toe piece. That 'moving along with your boot' feature you're talking about is EXACTLY what does it. The release feature moves along for something like 7-8 mm before the wing blows open and lets you out, no matter the situation. That's a very small amount of elasticity, and no good at all when you're landing big airs, sliding rails, and in other situations where the ability to recover from poor foot position and slight twisting forces is important.

Your comment on Line bindings leads me to believe that you're dangerously miseducated on bindings and issues surrounding them. I'm certainly not going to claim myself to be an expert, but you're just an idiot.

I'm not wading into the Salomon VS Look/Rossi VS Line debacle. I know better than that.




'No i dont care about your post count, i care about you being a cocksucker.'
Crystalneedsa...
'My friend's and I formed a NO GIRLS ALLOWED club when we were little. Then we gave it up when girls made my penis get hard'
Midwest_rep
'I think skiing in general is just a phase'-My friend Josh.
Nov 12 2004 2:16PM
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Burrito
Posts: 1864 - Karma: 930
I have Marker 1200 Free bindings, and I have never known them to just release unexpectedly. The best thing about Markers is that they are so light. The Comp 1400 EPS bindings (not even the titanium ones) weigh more than 200 grams less than the Look TI's. I don't know why all of you guys have to hate on Marker. I love mine. I will admit that the shock pad under the bindings is stupid, but the bindings still rock.

P.S. Markers are usually less expensive, too.

'I don't wanna be a pirate!'
Nov 12 2004 6:04PM
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doGelyst
Posts: 2492 - Karma: 509
markers just arent durable. They cant take a beating.
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oaktreely
Nov 12 2004 6:23PM
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Rowdy2
Posts: 265 - Karma: 10
BUY DEADBOLTS!
Nov 12 2004 6:45PM
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jpsnowbumb
Posts: 173 - Karma: 10
I think that the markers that I had 1200 frees did me more damage than good. They have almost no travel in the rear so they pre-release. This made my fall backwards quite a few times. They where great if you ski like a regular skier, but one you start jumping and landing backwards forget about them. I cranked the dins way up and they did the same thing, I might as well epoxyed my boots to the skis.

The big air pads or what ever they didn’t seam to do much!

Plus mine broke after 10 days, the bottom back titanium bracket got tweaked, but I did get a new pair from warranty.

Nov 12 2004 6:58PM
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IHOP
Posts: 2155 - Karma: 19
yeah i had the same prob with marker, prereleasing all the time. I think they make good recreational bindings though.
Nov 13 2004 12:49AM
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kjfreerider
Posts: 2495 - Karma: 14
hip hip huray for rossy




dont get it twisted
Nov 13 2004 9:52PM
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Sactown83
Posts: 188 - Karma: 10
just to disagree for disagreement sake, if you actually look at the component inside of the marker toe piece, it can not release completely vertical motion. it must move about 3mm to the left or the right and then vertically to release. and when was the last time you saw somebody release perfectly backwards?
Nov 14 2004 12:15AM
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grubix2
Posts: 2628 - Karma: 25
I mean idk about you guys but i sorta like having a little bit of weight right under the boot. I'm not saying i look for extremely heavy bindings, but a little bit of weight can help you know your footing on a rail or in the air.
Broken legs suck balls
Nov 14 2004 2:31PM
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michiganjibber
Posts: 587 - Karma: 61
if i was worried enough about 200 grams, i'd just take the weed and bowl out of my pocket.
I dont know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
Nov 15 2004 3:47PM
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winterkid33
Posts: 2267 - Karma: 52
Binding WTF is that? I just nail my boots to my skis whenever I want to ride. And those nails are much lighter then these so called 'Bindings'
Nov 15 2004 9:24PM
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freeskier108
Posts: 921 - Karma: 12
Weight can effect your skiing more than youd think. Thats half the problem with the line binding. Instead of having 200 more grams spread evenly through the ski, its about 800 more right under your boot...
www.absoluteskishop.com
Nov 15 2004 10:35PM
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PowderCanuck
Posts: 2626 - Karma: 10
^ I'd rather have it right underfoot than spread evenly through the ski. If weight is spread out through the ski, you have a higher swing weight, making tricks harder. If the wieght is underfoot it doesn't affect swingweight= easier spinning.
_______________________

Screw this I'm going skiing
Keep it fake(ie)
Nov 16 2004 1:38PM
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V-Pro
Posts: 247 - Karma: 10
My marker 1800 free are the best binding I hae ever owned. I do not know what model looks I have skied, but they were a reasonalbe binding
Nov 16 2004 5:22PM
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V-Pro
Posts: 247 - Karma: 10
^^binding
Nov 16 2004 5:27PM
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V-Pro
Posts: 247 - Karma: 10
I dont know what is going on. It wont post all my message. ANy way the looks I had went up to 14. They were average bindings. Had to be cranked up so not to pre release, and then they wouldnt realease on slow twisting falls. Top racers use markers for a reason.
Nov 16 2004 5:31PM
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LPT_311
Posts: 2239 - Karma: 12
can u say biast








311 is the Fuckin Shit Mutha Fucka
Nov 16 2004 6:06PM
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V-Pro
Posts: 247 - Karma: 10
Bi. Bia. Bias. I cant. I will just say marker then. I have become biast for a reason. And I am not following the crowds on this one, as every newschooler worships, looks/rossi. Marker make an excellent top end binding.
Nov 16 2004 6:21PM
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.David.
Posts: 1273 - Karma: 12
Marker can suck it.. i will never buy them again... Ive seen my brother double release while upside down... the skiis shot off like arrows...

Theres been a million times where I've said to myself.. dang, i wish they wouldn't release like that.. and I've said zero times to myself.. I wish those bindings would have released....

This year, I'm trying out the new Lines...
Nov 16 2004 9:48PM
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unionbowler
Posts: 67 - Karma: 10
you're never going to have an equal amount of times that you say, 'dang, i wish those bindings would have released' to the number of times that you say, 'man i wish they hadn't released like that'. cause everytime you say you wish they would have released, you have a serious injury, and you don't ski until the next season. and then you really wish that they would have released. with one exception, every person who i've heard say their bindings pre-released have still been able to ski the rest of the day...that said, all bindings do have release tech, so i guess i doesn't matter than much which ones you use. but then a dynamic twintip has a twin, just like a 4Front ski is a twintip...

i could go on with this, but it's not worth it...it'll just incite hate mail from a bunch of kids who generally educate themselves by asking everyone on this website how to mount bindings, etc instead of asking the people who sell/work on this stuff for a living.

i back up V-Pro. from marker you've got to buy the top-line binding to get all the tech - only the competition bindings have the comshock piston.
the new 1200 Free does have a full steel heel, too, and the rubber thing changed, i think. how often do the other comapnies change their bindings to better meet rider's needs?

and as proof of the love affair among jibbers about conforming to the look/rossi bandwagon, check out this private mail from dspin7x and the way it unfolded...

dspin7x wrote me:

hahaha you like marker bindings? Hate to break it to you but just about everyone in the ski industry prefers look/rossi or even salomon over marker for a reason....


so i write back:

conformist...so you only use what's accepted by everyone? is that how you gauge what is good? you're the lead shit talker on this site, and you have no back bone to have your own opinion. at least you can spell.

and here's dspin7x's answer:

How am I a conformist?? Im not even sure what I said to you...

i rest V-Pro's case. he's right about most racers using markers...many of them switch over after catastrophic crashes on other bindings...but racers doon't count on this site, because they're only the fastest, most precise(they don't need release elasticity because they can place their skis very exactly), best equipment-educated group of skiers out there.

i have no doubt that the extra elasticity helps while learning how to jib...
Nov 17 2004 2:12AM
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NoTeefa
Posts: 9566 - Karma: 129
hey earth to fucking dickhead above me. Bottom line, the peace of shit binding you market to jibbers (m1200 free) cant stand the abuse a 5 pound kitten would put on em. I had em for half of last season, and over the course of 3 months I broke them on FIVE fucking different occasions. I seriously feel great pity for anybody else that even thinks about buying these things for his jib sticks.
So in conclusion,
FUCK YOU
focus your efforts on making your bindings not suck instead of coming on here trying to advertise for free

Nov 17 2004 2:44AM
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unionbowler
Posts: 67 - Karma: 10
sheesh, can't even be a devil's advocate
Nov 17 2004 4:27AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,143
V-pro's right that Marker's 1800 is a good binding, but EVERY company makes a good binding once you get up that high. If you compare the S916 to the S914 while riding, you'll notice a big difference. The problem is, the bindings they actually market to the common consumer (the 1200 and even the 1400) are quite sub-par. And If you're actually trying to make the argument that it's GOOD that they prerelease, I'm afraid I'm going to have to laugh at you. I've known too many people who have destroyed themselves by popping out on a landing and smashing their face onto the ground, or landing on their head 5 times while tumbling head over heels down a hill, and so on (I've done the last one, guess what binding I was riding? Good thing for my homosexuariffic racing helmet). Look bindings release when they have to, and don't release when they shouldn't. Thus the lack of knee breakage, and the simultaneous non-annoyance of prerelease. The complete package. That is why they're popular. Why take safety alone when you can have safety and performance?

You do, however, have a point about the all-metal heel; I just mounted all metal bindings on my pistols, partly because I broke 2 look toepieces last year, partly because I got them for 80 bucks... But the only way I'd ride marker is A) full metal, B) Guaranteed to hold me in when I want it to. concentrate on those two aspects, and you'll have a solid binding.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Nov 20 2004 8:37PM
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dspin7x
Posts: 6414 - Karma: 63
I didnt give you a good answer cause I had no idea what the fuck we were even talking about moron. And you arent 'playing devils advoacate' you are trying to push a shitty binding that will get people hurt. I said 'there is a reason no one likes them...' because exactly like noteefa said I have heard and experienced soooo many bad things with marker bindings. Its not jsut waht the crowd is saying douche bag, I broke a rib because of a shitty binding marker put out and my friend broke his leg. Its a piece of shit binding and unsafe to be on the hill.
Nov 20 2004 9:32PM
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LPT_311
Posts: 2239 - Karma: 12
^^marker is for pussies, your not cool if u like marker








311 is the Fuckin Shit Mutha Fucka
Nov 20 2004 9:45PM
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r_witt
Posts: 911 - Karma: 10
I just have to say to V-pro that you might not have had any problems with markers, so it's easy to see why you like them so much. But people aren't jumping on some anti-marker bandwagon because it's cool, it's because we know people who get hurt by the bingdings.

I seem to be a member of a decent sized group of people on here who at one time used markers, but have since changed. Did I switch because the mean kids at the hill pointed and laughed at me for riding markers? (or maybe it was for that neon green one piece i was wearing, haters) Or did I switch because my markers preleased while I sliding a rail. I can't emphasize enough how hard it is to slide a rail on one ski and one boot. I promptly whacked my head on the rail.

I'm with J.D. May in saying that if they made signifcant improvments, such as the all steel construction, that I'd consider them again, but not until then.

And I was just thinking about how somebody above me said that all the racers use markers. I don't really see how that's relevant considering that they ski significantly differently than park skiers, pipe skiers, and big mt. skiers. Based on that logic, we should be riding 200 cm racing skis, because after all, they're the best skiers so they know what's best for everybody. (read: sarcasm)
~~~~~~~~~~~~

if i had no hands, id have a tee shirt that said, 'ever been stump fucked?' - cj
Nov 21 2004 10:12AM
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Rick_Husted
Posts: 552 - Karma: 10
i tore my acl riding 1200 frees. the binding failed to release. if i didnt screw up the landing i wouldnt have fell so it is my fault it happend. never the less i will never ride marker again.
Nov 21 2004 5:26PM
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jpsnowbumb
Posts: 173 - Karma: 10
Obviously there is a problem with many marker bindings, why even sell a free-ride specific binding if it doesn’t work correctly. Plus they are not cheap at all; I wish I could get my money back!
Nov 21 2004 7:34PM
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hellmut
Posts: 1460 - Karma: 29
Even though it sucks, when bindings do pre release when they shouldnt, rarely, does that physically hurt you.
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Nov 21 2004 7:53PM
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jpsnowbumb
Posts: 173 - Karma: 10
Dosnt hurt? Ya it does, cuz its kidda dangerouse landing switch going hella fast and falling backwars on your head.
Nov 21 2004 8:19PM
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Rowdy2
Posts: 265 - Karma: 10
Anyone remember CHris COllins at the X-Games a few years ago?
Nov 22 2004 11:56AM
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PowderCanuck
Posts: 2626 - Karma: 10
I've prereleased going through big moguls at high speeds... beleive me, it wasn't pretty. yes, prereleasing can be painful



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Screw this I'm going skiing
Nov 22 2004 2:34PM
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sherLocke
Posts: 4701 - Karma: 8
why do most pros who do a lot of park style skiing (park, backcountry booters, urban stuff) use look and rossi bindings? ohh yeah cuz they work better than markers. its a no brainer i dont care what you say. ive ridden rossi's for three years and havent had a problem. my buddy decided to try markers out and he cracked the toe piece in half, litterally in half. it fell apart into chunks, they may release 'better' but they dont take beatings.





'I thought i was going to dead.'

-Charles Gagnier
Nov 23 2004 7:58PM
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bigpurplebev
Posts: 335 - Karma: 38
the fact of the matter is marker IS the safest binding ever made. I like rossi/look more and thats what I ride but no matter what any of you people say or think or anything, marker is the safest binding, not the best or the strongest or the most functional or anything, but the safest.


'what are you a mountainier, hes gat ropes and shit hangin off him'



member # 5871
Nov 23 2004 8:01PM
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sherLocke
Posts: 4701 - Karma: 8
i don't see how landing a 40 foot table a bit on the violent side and having the toe piece fall apart and send your ass flying down the hill safe.





'I thought i was going to dead.'

-Charles Gagnier
Nov 23 2004 9:04PM
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jpsnowbumb
Posts: 173 - Karma: 10
Yes Marker might be the safest binding overall. Maby for racers, carvers and the general public.

But not for freeriding! So they shouldnt try to sell a soo called freeride binding, which has so many problems.




Nov 24 2004 2:07AM
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sherLocke
Posts: 4701 - Karma: 8
/\agreed





'I thought i was going to dead.'

-Charles Gagnier
Nov 24 2004 6:29PM
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Frostfired
Posts: 3090 - Karma: 35
if any1 has bindings they hate ill buy em cheap
msg me
Nov 24 2004 6:45PM
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grubix2
Posts: 2628 - Karma: 25
I get so pissed when i hear people say the markers release better in the damn DIN machine. Get over it, the DIN machine is not real life. The DIN machine doesn't replicate a backwards twisting fall. Look/rossi makes the best bindings for freeskiing, and all 'field studies' prove that.
Broken legs suck balls
Nov 24 2004 7:40PM
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KeegLove
Posts: 10166 - Karma: 55
thats cool thanx man i have atomics and i hope they work out well lol
SKI FOR LIFE!



WHITEWATER
Nov 24 2004 10:07PM
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Phrosty
Posts: 9956 - Karma: 18


http://www.lineskis.com/products/video/binding.mov
Nov 25 2004 10:48AM
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