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New feature in the forums

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schmuck
Posts: 1974 - Karma: 53,161
Hey everyone,

Wanted to let you all know about an exciting new feature that's coming to the forums later this week...the ability to rate individual posts.

We've made the decision to add this feature because it will do much a better job of determining the best quality threads via ratings (which will in turn appear on the homepage) in a more accurate way, as opposed to an overall thread rating.

Please note that this feature will NOT change or affect the ordering of posts or threads, as we will never get rid of the ability to view forums by the latest added view. It will simply act as a way for you to determine the best quality threads and the ones that show up on the homepage.

In addition to this heads up, we're looking for some people to help us test this feature and provide feedback, so if you're interested, please send me a PM.

Thanks!



Mar 4 2013 2:15PM
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Abu_Hajaar
Posts: 2749 - Karma: 3,907
Great idea! Will post rating effect karma in any way?
Mar 4 2013 3:15PM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18221 - Karma: 12,321
Pretty cool idea, can't wait. Is it pretty much a thumbs up/down? Or just thumbs up? Or what? I'm excited lol.
Mar 4 2013 3:18PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22708 - Karma: 76,635
No.

However, the more we have been thinking about this, the more that this likely should be something we take into consideration in the future.

For now, this feature is going to launch and we'll kind of see what the data looks like.

Mar 4 2013 3:57PM
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t_rob
Posts: 6433 - Karma: 11,458
I'm going to do a series of responses on the system. We'll start with the first impression and initial questions/concerns.

Obviously this system is going to grow time. Hopefully there will be some things in this post that other testers will obverse using the system or think about after reading about them in this thread.

I think I was the second person on the system, the only other ratings I've seen are in the Lesh thread.

I really like the way the initial post and the thread have the same rating. Sometimes threads get super off topic but I don't think it's worth it to separate them.

I'm only going to uprate posts up that are super funny, interesting or helpful. I'm going to downrate posts that are wrong, stupid, or not funny.

A thread is a good thread or a post is a good post on NS if it gets a lot of exposure. Ratings are purely attention. A -100 rating is very similar to a 100 rating. There is nothing wrong with a down rating. A highly downrated thread is usually more entertaining than a high rated thread.

The way I see it, an uprating is always a good thing and a down rating is either a really good thing or a really bad thing. The rest is blah should stay unrated. When I rate sometime, I'm saying this deserves attention. If something doesn't deserve attention, don't rate it.

I'm worried that ratings will purely follow the bandwagon effect and will be incredibly polarized. I feel that the high profile members like eheath will have an incredible amount of ratings for every post made whether it deserves attention or not.

I'm also worried that threads with many ratings are only going to accumulate more ratings. This is actually unhelpful. There is no difference between a thread with a rating of 100 or 200, the only difference is that 100 more people agree with the first 100 people. It doesn't actually say much.

Since there are very few ratings so far, theres not too much more I can say.

If anyone has any questions or thoughts they want the testers to look into please don't hesitate to ask. This is a work in progress after all. Please be honest and don't worry about saying the wrong thing.
Mar 4 2013 4:12PM
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Mag
Posts: 8155 - Karma: 14,809
I wouldn't downvote a post because it's not funny to you, unless it's something that's just not going to be funny to anyone and straight up annoying.

Only thing I can think of to prevent the 100/-100 ratings is some sort of anonymity with the number of ratings, but that SORT of defeats the purpose.

Mar 4 2013 4:19PM
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t_rob
Posts: 6433 - Karma: 11,458
Why? Ratings are how I view things but ratings don't mean much until more people vote on them. My opinion could help shape a larger one but I'm not the tyrant of NS where everything I say goes.

The more I think of it, my downrating if I don't like something while also saying that more ratings equal more attention is contradicting. Oops. Maybe I'll find a way around this. Probably not. I'll keep it on my mind.
Mar 4 2013 4:27PM
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maximiliaan
Posts: 7711 - Karma: 2,857
sounds good!
Mar 4 2013 5:00PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22708 - Karma: 76,635
I don't think so... the fact is that there's a specific type of person that is going to look at the downrated stuff more. Others will look past it. It also allows for some idea of what the general consensus of opinion might be, even for those who remain silent.

I'm semi suspect that we may see more cases of inflammatory posts being hugely downrated.

I'd say that the real change would be if there is an affect to it. Lowering the Karma, top rated option of display, optional threading with ratings... that type of stuff.

Mar 4 2013 6:05PM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22708 - Karma: 76,635
Note that what we really want right now is feedback on how you think it looks/functions. I'd love to see this pushed out by tomorrow afternoon, so that we can get more people using it.
Mar 4 2013 6:06PM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13083 - Karma: 18,720
I remember making a thread about this last month. Nobody answered, but Im glad its been added.
Mar 4 2013 6:12PM
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Mag
Posts: 8155 - Karma: 14,809
clearly they listen.
Mar 4 2013 6:13PM
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1337
Posts: 31054 - Karma: 29,231
Been using it a little bit and these are my initial thoughts:

The concept is awesome and has loads of potential to be very useful. Glad you're rolling it out now so when the updates do come in the future everyone hopefully has the hang of it.

GUI wise, I think it could use some work on the aesthetics. I liked the buttons you use for photos/videos/old system. Obviously that size wont work out, but a smaller version would be a bit more defined than just the arrows currently being used.

I also have two bugs right now:
1) First posts in a thread have weird padding, resulting in this awkward spacing
Click for larger image

2) Members with over 1 million karma or long names have a line break in the username box (more of an OCD thing)
Click for larger image
Mar 4 2013 6:14PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
my only issue with this is that members who simply don't like another member will always downvote their post.


For example, suppose we have a dinosaur roaming nsg who gets a lot of hate, some deservedly. But when aforementioned dinosaur posts something actually useful and helpful, it'll still get downvoted simply because his reputation precedes him.

This could be like a chance to karma rate someone 0/10 literally every single time they hit post.


But I still think it's a great idea overall and based on past updates, you guys are definitely in tune with what the masses want and like. So I don't doubt that 99% of the time, it'll be used properly. I just think there's the potential for abuse.
Mar 5 2013 1:24AM
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B.Aussie
Posts: 5852 - Karma: 4,531
Sounds like a really cool idea.
Mar 5 2013 4:35AM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
" I'm going to downrate posts that are wrong, stupid, or not funny."

I'm worried.
Mar 5 2013 4:47AM
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Mr.Sloth
Posts: 5091 - Karma: 13,469
Not seeing this on mobile view? Or has it not even launched yet?
Mar 5 2013 7:33AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22708 - Karma: 76,635
Its only launched for a few people beta testing it. You can PM schmuck and he can hook you up, or just wait for general release. We'll probably just correct a few of the bugs and push it out live. There really isn't a proper way to know how this is going to sit until its out there and we see how people use it.

Mar 5 2013 8:00AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22708 - Karma: 76,635
Yeah but I'd argue that the current system gives you zero chance to come back from that. Currently, once someone is 0/10 it never changes. At least this way, you'd get posts that are rated individually, and by people who might not know your reputation.

This also is not yet linked to Karma. Depending on the results, we may do so in the future but currently nothing is changing.

Mar 5 2013 8:01AM
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Mr.Sloth
Posts: 5091 - Karma: 13,469
Just from looking at this, I have a couple questions:
1. Where is the "bar" or number that shows the rating of the comment? Or can only the poster see his rating? (and if that's the case, why?)
2. Why not a up/down system? I like that quite a bit more than the 0-10 scale, IMO

Mar 5 2013 9:47AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22708 - Karma: 76,635
1. The score is the only thing displayed. Its up/down and there is no maximum or minimum score. The post could have -1,000 or +2,000 if it was super well received.

We aren't displaying the number of up and down votes per post. This decision was made to keep the forum display as absolutely clean and simple as is possible.

Someone else mentioned that they liked the look of the other up/down arrows - and we changed it to this for simplicity. We wanted to keep the Newschoolers forums as minimalistic as is possible.

Mar 5 2013 10:09AM
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nopoles
Posts: 2216 - Karma: 883
The mentioned display bugs should be resolved in most cases. 

As for the forums on mobile, no they do not have ratings yet. The mobile forums work differently than the desktop version, but we intend to change this over the summer so forums will be consistent across all devices.
Mar 5 2013 10:29AM
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Mr.Sloth
Posts: 5091 - Karma: 13,469
Ohhhh I completely misunderstood what was going on in that picture. I thought that number was his rating on the 1-10 scale, and not the actually overall rating on the comment.
Mar 5 2013 10:40AM
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22708 - Karma: 76,635
The weird padding and formatting has been corrected.

As for the arrows, we tested both versions and this one looked way cleaner and simpler. The other ones made the site look a touch busier which wasn't great.

I think we're going to pull the trigger on this, as there isn't any apparent bugs other than what has been corrected.

See what happens...

Mar 5 2013 3:00PM
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Jaggy_Snake
Posts: 2287 - Karma: 1,418
The new feature kind of reminds me of Reddit.

It's good so far. I think once it's fully implemented into the site, obviously more will use it and we'll be able to see the up and down rated posts.
Mar 5 2013 6:33PM
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JWeinstock
Posts: 3439 - Karma: 1,352
only been using it for a couple minutes but actually really like it. some main things:

1. Will get better threads to the home screen because they will be rated with competition to pictures because each post that is rated up will go to the overall score of the thread. Therefore, more threads will make it to the home screen.

2.Very helpful in reading through quickly. it will be much easier to skim through the thread and see the important post because of number of up/down votes.

3. It was said earlier that people like eheath would get a bunch of up votes just because it is. although this is probably true, it really shouldn't make a huge difference in thread rating as long as there is many other comments in the thread.

4. so far this is my only problem with it. If the up/down votes go to karma, the karma system will probably go crazy from anyone posts a good amount. this is kinda of confusing to explain so i will try to figure out how to say it and maybe post it later.

Overall, i like it so far
Mar 5 2013 6:57PM
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JWeinstock
Posts: 3439 - Karma: 1,352
and one more thing. bad posts which would usually have a -100 rating might have a +100 rating because of funny posts inside or something like that.
Mar 5 2013 6:59PM
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.Rybak.
Posts: 9017 - Karma: 9,864
Will there still be this feature but on mobile or will the arrows be removed on that too? Click for larger image
Mar 5 2013 7:59PM
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JWeinstock
Posts: 3439 - Karma: 1,352
those arrows are now gone from that spot unless you are replying to a thread
Mar 5 2013 9:20PM
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Spinoza
Posts: 12763 - Karma: 3,846
This is Good because you can give recognition to a post without having to quote it.
Although, this could mean significant changes to how threads function if everyone stops quoting posts just to commend the user
Mar 6 2013 11:43AM
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schmuck
Posts: 1974 - Karma: 53,161
This won't be linked to Karma. We may choose to do so in the future depending on how it goes (as Doug mentioned in an earlier post in this thread), but for now it won't affect your Karma one way or the other.





Mar 6 2013 2:13PM
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cultrara
Posts: 5147 - Karma: 46,850
So far it seems like you can't un-upvote or un-downvote someone. Once you upvote a post, you only have the option to down vote it, not take back your upvote.

For example, if I accidentally upvoted someone, I can only leave it upvoted or downvote it instead of leaving them at neutral.
Mar 6 2013 2:45PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
wait. so now we can't upvote the thread unless we post in it? seams a bit silly to me. If I like the thread and I want to upvote it without posting in it I just upvote the OP? If that's the case, is there a point to up/down votes for the thread now?
Mar 6 2013 2:48PM
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t_rob
Posts: 6433 - Karma: 11,458
voting the original post is the same is voting the thread.
Mar 6 2013 2:53PM
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JWeinstock
Posts: 3439 - Karma: 1,352
you can still up/down vote the OP. but you can also up/down vote posts in the thread that will affect the over all thread score
Mar 6 2013 2:54PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51617 - Karma: 162,030
I see it. interesting.
Mar 6 2013 2:54PM
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yuck
Posts: 8384 - Karma: 2,090
this will probably make me post a lot less because i can just click this if i agree or disagree.

also are we just gonna use reddit lingo and call this "upvoting and downvoting"? i remember someone making a thread suggesting we think of our own term for this whenever it would come out and that time is nigh.

overall i really like it, hope it works out
Mar 6 2013 2:55PM
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t_rob
Posts: 6433 - Karma: 11,458
Downvote?
Mar 6 2013 3:00PM
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SSteezle
Posts: 9297 - Karma: 7,732
that's part of what your butt buddy ar6rider likes most as well.

I personally love the addition, no longer have to read all the nonsense and can instantly get to some of the better responses. Good step in the right direction if you ask me
Mar 6 2013 3:01PM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,089
need to move the location of the arrows to the bottom of the post

and add the ability to remove a vote
Mar 6 2013 3:04PM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
Pretty in your face.. wish it was more transparent/smaller/out of the way.

I like the way HB does it, but their forums are pretty different so I guess it might not work as well here
Click for larger image
Mar 6 2013 3:07PM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,089
Also, it looks like the OP rating is connected to the thread rating, it should not be like that.
Mar 6 2013 3:09PM
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Petey.
Posts: 5736 - Karma: 4,885
Kind of an eyesore, really. Unnecessary feature taking up more space, please remove!
Mar 6 2013 3:10PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
so it seams.


I'm a little confused as to why this exists though. If it doesn't affect your karma score, doesn't change the position of your post in the thread, what's the point? If a post halfway down page 3 of a thread gets a ton of up votes will that post make the front page, the whole thread, or does that person just get to feel smug about him/herself? It's not like people will be scanning a thread just looking for up voted posts, and if they are they will kind of lose the context of said post in the grand scheme of things, no?

I'm kind of confused by this whole thing.
Mar 6 2013 3:16PM
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Mag
Posts: 8155 - Karma: 14,809
I'm not so sure about being able to vote the thread up hundreds/thousands of times by voting individual posts.

Might work, but sometimes it could have counteractions.
Mar 6 2013 3:29PM
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Bateman
Posts: 8591 - Karma: 8,600
THIS IS FCKIN AWESOME. NS IS NOW REDDIT... ISH
Mar 6 2013 3:41PM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,747
not that I really care, but it would be way way better if rating a post didn't also at a +/- for the entire thread.

If someone posts a cool thread in Ski Gabber that should get on the front page easily someone could easily go and downvote every post and get a great thread a -50 rating in a few seconds.
Mar 6 2013 3:45PM
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DrZoidberg
Posts: 5675 - Karma: 4,268
Cool idea. I'll be honest though, I don't like the position of it. Unfortunately I can't think of where I'd like to see it. Right now it seems really isolated. It's got it's own column and looks all alone. Kinda seems out of place.

Or maybe it's cause I'm used to it not being there, and in a week I'll forget it wasn't there.
Mar 6 2013 3:46PM
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Parrish
Posts: 8695 - Karma: 1,008
I can now upvote posts i agree with instead of posting bullshit that has already been said. As well as downvote stuff that is complete garbage without having to be that dick that chews them out.

Great feature guys.
Mar 6 2013 3:48PM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,747
nope, it's everyone's. So I could single handedly put this thread from +56 to +2
Mar 6 2013 3:49PM
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t_rob
Posts: 6433 - Karma: 11,458
Agreed. It's obviously supposed to be a way to point out helpful posts. However, it really doesn't make them much more visible unless it's right in front of your face. I'm against changing the order of posts and NS threads tend to evolve in the first place and downrated posts and necessarily bad.

Maybe highlight the top rated response? I actually think some people will try to find the top rated response instead of reading the whole thread although that tends to be problematic because of that whole evolution of thread thing. Who knows. I think it needs a lot more people to use the system to be fully understood.
Mar 6 2013 3:51PM
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