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Tesla Motors v New York Times

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908
Posts: 716 - Karma: 11
Interesting story developing today. NY Times journalist John Broder provides misleading information while reviewing the Tesla Model S, while his every move was being tracked by the company. Impressed with the foresight of Tesla and CEO Elon Musk to record the information after the failed libel lawsuit vs Top Gear for a similar incident. Stakes are high for the the Times and corporate biases against alternative energy.


Feb 14 2013 12:21PM
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skithebert
Posts: 2163 - Karma: 16
that is interesting.

id stick with consumers reports
Feb 14 2013 12:30PM
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908
Posts: 716 - Karma: 11
Definitely. The car has rave reviews from nearly every credible source in the industry, including the 2013 Car of the Year from Motor trend. Amazing how this guy drives the car around in circles in a parking lot to defeat the expected range and describes it as "regular use". You would think NYT would monitor these issues of journalistic integrity.

I'd be surprised if this guy keeps his job, but I think the paper itself will a huge hit regardless of the outcome.
Feb 14 2013 12:40PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
yep, itll be interesting to see where this goes. probably nowhere cause people are retards but hey...
Feb 14 2013 12:41PM
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volvotom
Posts: 2045 - Karma: 712
This story is several days old, but still worth hearing about again.

Tesla isn't going to win a lot of customers by bullying the press. However, the NYTimes road test may have been flawed.
Feb 14 2013 12:44PM
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JahFeels
Posts: 779 - Karma: 587
That's pretty low of top gear for doing that
Feb 14 2013 1:07PM
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CrotchKiller
Posts: 9037 - Karma: 6,943
Good on Tesla for learning from a mistake and discrediting all his false claims with actual evidence. Guy seems like a real chode.
Feb 14 2013 1:09PM
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Reister
Posts: 279 - Karma: -20
thats fucking stupid. all that does is hurt the consumer and the economy.
Feb 14 2013 1:30PM
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Troy.
Posts: 5070 - Karma: 12,549
Good on Tesla for learning from Top Gear. That's fucking dumb of NYT. lost a lot of respect for them.
Feb 14 2013 1:45PM
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volvotom
Posts: 2045 - Karma: 712
Jalopnik did a lot of independent research into the debacle. Articles
Here: http://jalopnik.com/towing-company-the-nyt-tesla-model-s-was-dead-when-it-196100064
Here: http://jalopnik.com/tesla-claims-model-s-driving-logs-show-nyt-reporter-wor-192254006
Here: http://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-calls-nyt-reporter-to-apologize-before-blasti-173692897
annnnnd here: http://jalopnik.com/the-tesla-model-s-is-the-world-s-most-expensive-beta-te-5975010

Both sides are at fault here. Don't dismiss NYT outright, also don't believe any of the spin from Tesla in trying to prevent another PR disaster.
Feb 14 2013 1:50PM
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volvotom
Posts: 2045 - Karma: 712
Most overtly wrong claim by Tesla:

"And then there's the bit about Broder driving around a parking lot until the battery died. What's the more plausible scenario here -- that Broder was searching for a space in a crowded lot, as we all have done, or that he's a biased journalist looking to get a sensational story?

Actually, Musk's claim that the car was driven "around in circles in front of the Milford Supercharger trying to get Model S to stop with zero range indicated" is pretty disingenuous. Note that the Milford station is on an off-ramp and it isn't at all small. A single loop around the station is nearly a 1/3rd of a mile, and if you make a wrong turn (or even hunt for the charger) and make one turn around you're at 1/2 mile."

Feb 14 2013 1:53PM
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JakeAssBeatClap
Posts: 6673 - Karma: 2,537
The times is a pretty massive liberal piece of garbage. I read it because some of the journalists are decent but for the most part it's one of those prints that I just am not a big fan of.
Feb 14 2013 1:53PM
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volvotom
Posts: 2045 - Karma: 712
The Atlantic also has an article up refuting Musk's claims. http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2013/02/elon-musks-data-doesnt-back-his-claims-new-york-times-fakery/62149/
Feb 14 2013 4:31PM
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volvotom
Posts: 2045 - Karma: 712
Now the NYTimes author has a post rebutting Tesla's claims: http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/that-tesla-data-what-it-says-and-what-it-doesnt/?ref=automobiles.
Feb 14 2013 8:06PM
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corona
Posts: 12805 - Karma: 32,823
that's one of the worst rebuttals I've ever read. He's blaming the tires for the change of 20mph from the car logs to what he claims. lol. sure.
Feb 14 2013 8:24PM
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volvotom
Posts: 2045 - Karma: 712
Are you trying to say that using different size/type tires will not effect the speedometer? Because it will.

Furthermore, as he states he went "highway" speed. His direct responses to each the the data plots published by Tesla make sense.
Feb 14 2013 8:29PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Actually top gear was simply speaking the truth. Youre an idiot. Electric cars are pieces of shit. Their batteries pollute the fuck out of the environment when they are being made. The batteries fade after a while just like any piece of shit battery. And disposal of batteries is an environmental disaster. The future is hydrogen powered cars, which only give off water as exhaust. Anybody whose not a stupid liberal trash pile fuckhead knows that electric cars are a fucking joke
Feb 14 2013 8:32PM
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corona
Posts: 12805 - Karma: 32,823
not what I'm saying. but it's funny he's blaming it on that. clearly Tesla knows what tires were on it, unless he switched them himself. all the model s's are supplied with 19", like he says is on them. none of them have 21". that was only in the prototypes. clearly he's in the wrong and is pulling at anything to not loose his job
Feb 14 2013 8:41PM
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volvotom
Posts: 2045 - Karma: 712
I call myself a liberal, but I agree with you on this point. It really seems like a shit car. Also LOL at people driving hybrids to be more environmentally friendly. Those batteries are an environmental disaster, also think about the extra energy input in producing and recycling the complicated electrical systems compared to a super efficient yet simple diesel or gasoline engine.
Feb 14 2013 8:47PM
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corona
Posts: 12805 - Karma: 32,823
actually an electric motor system is way way way less complicated than a gasoline/diesel. it's only made much more complicated because of all the computer systems and other electronic controls and shit. but it has the potential to be way more simple/less costly/less resource intensive. the big problem is the batteries. lithium-ion batteries are a blight environmentally. same with most other batteries
Feb 14 2013 8:52PM
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andy_boy
Posts: 4434 - Karma: 107
you're not very smart.

electric cars have the potential to be better than gasoline cars in every single way, and the Model S has made leaps and bounds towards that goal.

battery technology is still rapidly evolving. they don't have to be and won't always be pieces of shit that fade and pollute the environment. what a garbage argument.

it's laughable that top gear has knuckledraggers like you convinced that hydrogen cars are the future. sorry to derail your gravy train, but they're not. not at all.

how do you separate hydrogen? from oil (dirty), coal (dirty), or ELECTRICITY. and then you have to transport your hydrogen USING HYDROGEN or entirely new pipeline infrastructure. why bother when we already have a kickass electrical grid that can be powered forever, FOR FREE by the motherf*cking sun?!

also, electric motors have one moving part and are up to 90% efficient. you will (most likely) never, never get that in a gas-based propulsion system.

and then there's ultracapacitors which could one day completely replace the batteries you hold so much malice for.

i could go on about how incredibly misinformed you are but I think that'll do for now.
Feb 14 2013 9:09PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Terrible troll attempt
Feb 14 2013 9:23PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Seriously I hope you buy a fucking electric car. You deserve it
Feb 14 2013 9:25PM
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andy_boy
Posts: 4434 - Karma: 107
good rebuttal bud. you did well to defend your intelligence.

also, my take on this particular story:
regardless of the statements that Broder and Musk have issued (both of which I'm sure are twisting facts) the bottom line is that this idiot embarked on a 60-mile journey with a car that told him he had only 27 miles of range. you don't do that unless you want to see the car end up on a flatbed truck. he did it on purpose to spice up his story and there's no denying that.

and, he actually didn't deny it in his most recent response to the Tesla blog. end of story.
Feb 14 2013 9:36PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Dude your entire post is full of shit. You think electric cars hold as much promise for the future as hydrogen fuel cell cars. Your tripping your face off. You must read the most biased pile of shit ever to have the fucked up opinion you have. I don't have the motivation to go dig through your shit. Your just flat out wrong dude. Get over it
Feb 14 2013 9:58PM
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andy_boy
Posts: 4434 - Karma: 107
how did you know my mechanical engineering textbooks were biased? you must be a super genius or something!

i think you're mistaking your lack of motivation for a lack of brainpower. i personally practiced in the automotive industry and have colleagues who have worked for automotive fuel cell companies-- so if we think you're wrong... you are.
Feb 14 2013 10:16PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Dude you don't know shit about engineering. If you had the slightest bit of knowledge you would know that the energy density in a battery is nothing compared to that in gas or diesel or hydrogen. You an electric car ideologue who preaches bullshit about the magic of electric cars. There's no magic. It's a sham supported by overoptimistic assholes like yourself
Feb 14 2013 11:54PM
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*simba*
Posts: 9125 - Karma: 511
https://twitter.com/PeterDrives

CNN journalist live tweeting while driving the same route in the Tesla that J. Broder drove.
Feb 15 2013 12:02AM
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corona
Posts: 12805 - Karma: 32,823
it's the kind of backwards thinking like yours that gets us nowhere. of course right now it's not that great, the technology fairly brand new. but to start bashing new ideas saying they are shit without even knowing its full potential is full on retard. that's some 12th century Catholic church retard. it's not a sham, it's new technology that could potentially start a revolution in clean, efficient, environmentally friendly transport.

people were saying it was impossible to land a man on the moon right up until the day it happened. it's the nay-sayers like you who hold us back.

please, come join us in the 21st century.




inb4 someone says 'it's not actually new, electric cars have been around for over 100 years'. well this is a whole new breed of electric cars. not even comparable. this is the birth of a whole new industry.


Feb 15 2013 12:04AM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Guess what. The electric car has been "the next big thing" for 100 years. We landed a man on the moon 40 years ago. 40 fucking years ago we had the technology to land a man on the moon. We have had 40 years, SINCE THEN to add the latest and newest technology to electric cars and STILL they are a complete joke compared to a vw xl1 which gets 235 mpg on diesel. You want the future? It's hydroelectric power splitting hydrogen from water to put into a hydrogen fuel cell car which emits h20 as exhaust. You run out on your road trip? You fill it up at the pump. 40 years after we landed a man on the moon and where are electric cars? You run out of fuel on your road trip and you have to wait 12 FUCKING HOURS for it to recharge. Fun times right? Electric cars have been "the next big thing" for 100 years and they will continue to be the next big thing as far as the eye can see. It's only stupidly optimistic "go green" assholes who fall for the romantic idea of electric cars who think they going to challenge a 235 mpg vw diesel or a perfectly viable hydrogen car. If your not stupid you will realize the future is hydrogen, not electric. If you think only now we are on the verge of a viable electric car you are an idiot. We have been on the verge of a viable electric car for 100 years
Feb 15 2013 12:32AM
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andy_boy
Posts: 4434 - Karma: 107
if energy density was the only thing that mattered, and oil was a renewable resource, then you'd be right. but you're not! too bad :)

ah yes, and if you knew any 'shit' at all you'd know energy density is more of a chemistry thing, not engineering. but please, do continue to embarrass yourself ahahaha
Feb 15 2013 12:32AM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
"Energy density isn't an engineering thing". Your just embarrassing yourself bra
Feb 15 2013 12:43AM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
I rode in one of those new Teslas and it wasn't that great, they're very pricy too. Also, if you use the quick recharger provided by Tesla (which only takes 5 hours!) it shortens the life of the battery, what the hell? Tesla is just the passion project of a bunch of multi-millionaire California liberals who got rich during the tech boom.
Feb 15 2013 4:00AM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
"Top Gear, they had literally written the script before they even received the car (we happened to find a copy of the script on a table while the car was being “tested”). Our car never even had a chance."

"http://askapic.com/question_photos/thumb_large/seems_legit_55_1.jpg"
Feb 15 2013 5:32AM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507

Click for larger image
Feb 15 2013 5:32AM
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.AR6rider
Posts: 444 - Karma: -106
thats bullshit
Feb 15 2013 5:33AM
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corona
Posts: 12805 - Karma: 32,823
you really don;t get it, do you. they have not been the next big thing for 100 years. they have just been on the backburner for 100 years as the oil industry has boomed and non-renewable power was king. there was never any needy force driving the development of electric cars, but now as we're straining our fossil fuel supplies there certainly is starting to be. electric cars now are essentially where gasoline cars were 80 years ago. it's not that great of a technology, but this is something that will develop fast. very fast. you'll be biting your tongue in 30 years when you can drive across the country without having to stop to recharge once. who says it needs to be batteries? the technology is about to exist for a car to harness electricity as it drives through coils in the road. something like that anyways. I don't know the details, but it's developments like that that will push it forwards fast. also there will obviously be the push to develop a battery that charges in 10 minutes that you can get 500 miles on. that will come. absolutely. it just needs time and it needs people like you the shut the fuck up and stop being a debby downer.
Feb 15 2013 7:42AM
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corona
Posts: 12805 - Karma: 32,823
I mean we're just getting to the point where we can move objects using light. shit is about to get real.
Feb 15 2013 7:46AM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Yup
Feb 15 2013 10:43AM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Tldr. Your full of shit dude. Just quit
Feb 15 2013 10:47AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,143
You realize this kind of post makes you look like a complete idiot, right? Just checking.
Feb 15 2013 12:03PM
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yuck
Posts: 8384 - Karma: 2,090
top gear is a funny and entertaining show where you might learn something about cars but if people take their reviews seriously then they are pretty damn dumb. they do ridiculous shit that is so obviously scripted and often portrays the car in a way that will get them ratings or just to be funny.

in all seriousness nobody should watch top gear for an honest review bc all astons are amazing and american cars cant turn and electric/eco friendly cars suck according to top gear, bottom line.
Feb 15 2013 12:16PM
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andy_boy
Posts: 4434 - Karma: 107
It's been used before, but this just video describes you too perfectly

Feb 15 2013 12:24PM
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whoa-dere
Posts: 10596 - Karma: 7,105
appearently the reporter was driving in circles to drain the battery
Feb 15 2013 12:25PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
that is one of the top 5 dumbest thing i have ever read on this site. i drive a dodge charger r/t and that car can't turn in snow or when its wet for shit. and i know 2 people who own astons and they do love them, and electric cars do suck.
Feb 15 2013 3:34PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,340
Click for larger image

Click for larger image

i dont give two shits about the argument in this thread. those cars are gorgeous
Feb 15 2013 4:06PM
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CrotchKiller
Posts: 9037 - Karma: 6,943
people watch top gear for an honest review?
Feb 15 2013 6:50PM
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andy_boy
Posts: 4434 - Karma: 107
I would actually agree with him. Top Gear is entertaining and obviously many of the things they talk about are true (if they were lying all the time no one would watch). In the end though, that show is almost completely scripted and can't be taken seriously... the hosts themselves don't even take themselves seriously. They're certainly entitled to their opinions, but just because they're a popular automobile show it doesn't mean they're not biased. If it was my job to shred around a track in car with a V12 that gets 5-MPG, I'd hate electric cars too.

Certain aspects of electric cars aren't ideal, but it won't always be that way, and Tesla is one company who is dedicated to changing that.

All this talk about hydrogen vehicles having a better future... but when you look on the number of cars currently on the road and the infrastructure that exists for them compared to EVs... It's pretty clear the way things are going for now.
Feb 15 2013 7:21PM
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volvotom
Posts: 2045 - Karma: 712
They can be as honest as they want, there are no advertisers to piss off as they are on "licensed" TV. Jay Leno refused to do Top Gear US because they refused to give him full editorial independence. The issue being that they would change reviews to better please car manufacturers (advertisers) instead of being honest.


Feb 15 2013 9:44PM
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corona
Posts: 12805 - Karma: 32,823
look, it's already happening:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/02/18/technology-bombardier-electric-buses.html
Feb 19 2013 1:28AM
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leninlover
Posts: 560 - Karma: 148
Yikes, so you're one of those guys who thinks science and technology evolve purely for the betterment of mankind in a free market system.. I cant wait until you get banned.
Feb 19 2013 2:09AM
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