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Food for thought; Newtown

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Thadius.Castle
Posts: 1436 - Karma: 250
Personally I don't care about the Gun control debates here, but this really caught my eye, and it is certainly worth a watch.
Feb 4 2013 8:51PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
with 64 million gun owners across the US and who knows how many guns between them, it definitely is a deterrent.. taking down a foreign army is a lot different than taking down your own nation full of gun owners. obviously its very very situation dependent, but with so many gun owners, the government does have a level of fear of the people, not enough IMO, unfortunately we fear the government more than they fear us, when it should be the other way around. but with how much government and police shit on us already, if we were unarmed on top of that, we would be fucked.
Mar 16 2013 7:07PM
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skierman
Posts: 8342 - Karma: 7,652
OK and for that assumption, we would have to make sure every single person in America was armed... which again, without tyrannical-like legislation, is IMPOSSIBLE.

Why can't people discuss an issue without bringing up absurd and impossible scenarios that do nothing but deter away from what you're supposed to be discussing? How in your brain, or that other kid's, does that make any sort of contribution to solving the issue of gun control?
Mar 16 2013 7:12PM
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skierman
Posts: 8342 - Karma: 7,652
Sorry mis-read that... but again, that's assuming every single gun-owner in the U.S. is someone with an effective weapon of some kind. Do you know what firearms make up a percentage of legal gun owners? Do you know how effective those would be against an army with bulletproof vehicles and superior firepower including 30k drones? You're just entertaining a fanciful scenario that deters away from the actual issue.
Mar 16 2013 7:16PM
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Wis_Skier_23
Posts: 2263 - Karma: 245
I am merely raising the question that it is alarming that they would have a need to purchase such a large amount of Ammunition being used here on American soil.  I never said batten the hatches up and prepare for war because homeland is coming for civilians I just think its alarming they would need that many bullets since we aren't fighting a war here.

I need to get educated about this?  The Obama administration believes it could technically use military force to kill an American on U.S. soil in an "extraordinary circumstance" but has "no intention of doing so," U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said in a letter disclosed Tuesday. 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/05/us-drone-strike_n_2813857.html
I am not going to say the USA is going to ever use such force but could you be a little more vague?  If your going to release such a radical statement such as that then you better define what extraordinary is.

Mar 16 2013 7:20PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
i didnt bring it up, just commented on it. but I think the "keeping the government in check" argument is relevant. not necessarily to stop a tyrannical government, but to keep the power/fear balance somewhat in check. im a firm believer that police, government officials, etc.. neet to fear citizens, and having armed citizens is a very effective way of doing that.
Mar 16 2013 7:22PM
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skierman
Posts: 8342 - Karma: 7,652
Hahaha OK there, Glenn Beck. Asking questions about imaginary scenarios is REALLY productive...
Mar 16 2013 8:34PM
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Wis_Skier_23
Posts: 2263 - Karma: 245
When the attorney general makes that kind of statement accompanied by the purchase of 30,000 drones its only healthy as a citizen to ask why.  What is not productive is your lack of knowledge of the REAL issues its as all you know is the Feinstein rhetoric of Assault Weapons and magazines are the devil ban them before they kill us all
Mar 16 2013 8:59PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,351
You dont get it bro. I know this guy who knows this guy who has a cousin whos friend has an assault rifle 15 and that thing is bad. It goes off on its own and is black and scary looking. One day youre a normal dude, then you touch that assault rifle 15 and bam...mass murderer. Only reason anyone needs one of those is for when Mars Attacks.
Mar 16 2013 9:06PM
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skierman
Posts: 8342 - Karma: 7,652
How about you post that source where you got that information from so we can say what he actually said instead of you telling us what he said, most likely taken out of context if it happened at all. Come on, let's see this where the attorney general said that the U.S. government plans on using the 30k drones on it's own citizens on U.S. soil.
Mar 16 2013 9:33PM
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_Jesus_
Posts: 2070 - Karma: 260
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Mar 16 2013 11:20PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
i wasn't agreeing or disagreeing thats just a good read. also it kinda did cover it.
Mar 17 2013 12:27AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
the Nazis actually made firearms more accessible than the Weimar Republic.


The whole comparison is stupid though. Germans weren't allowed to have weapons because they were barely allowed to have an military as a result of them losing WWI.

And that disregards the fact that Russians lost more than 7 million soldiers fighting the Germans, and that's with tanks, aircraft and entire armies. And yet somehow the argument is that 50,000 Jews (of all ages) were going to somehow dismantle the Nazi regime from within.

No, I'm sorry, it's not even an argument worth addressing beyond making it clear how stupid it is.
Mar 17 2013 1:11AM
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Wis_Skier_23
Posts: 2263 - Karma: 245
If you would've read my post earlier you would have seen the link but since you obviously didn't I will give it to you again.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/05/us-drone-strike_n_2813857.html
Mar 17 2013 1:42AM
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skierman
Posts: 8342 - Karma: 7,652
'The Obama administration believes it could technically use military force to kill an American on U.S. soil in an "extraordinary circumstance" but has "no intention of doing so," U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said in a letter disclosed Tuesday.'

OMG look! another outrageous and incredible situation that would never happen unless the CIA hired a bi-polar bitch that fell in love with a terrorist and this was the last line of defense!

So that's what your evidence consists of to claim that the U.S. is building an army of 30,000 drones in order to wipe out the U.S. population... see what we're dealing with here? If I could order a drone strike on this douche, I would. Fucking obliterate this filth.
Mar 17 2013 2:19AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
Just so you know, you'd be a lot more convincing if you could manage to control yourself a little and restrain yourself from not personally attack and insult everyone who disagrees with you at the end of every post you make. You do realize that calling other people stupid doesn't make what you say any smarter, right?
Mar 17 2013 9:29AM
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Wis_Skier_23
Posts: 2263 - Karma: 245
Never said that.  If you would have read my post once again you would understand what I am trying to say.  I said the following:
I am not going to say the USA is going to ever use such force but could you be a little more vague?  If your going to release such a radical statement such as that then you better define what extraordinary is.

You should really read my posts before you put words in my mouth.

And I hope other people from around NS come and read this thread as well as the other gun control thread to see how ridiculous your posts and ideas are. 
Mar 17 2013 11:25AM
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skierman
Posts: 8342 - Karma: 7,652
Oh yeah, using logic has really convinced you and your conspiracy theory, ass-grabbing buddy to change your minds.

You can't change some things... like the tide or the sun or your painful stupidity.
Mar 17 2013 11:32AM
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edai
Posts: 4988 - Karma: 4,658
Awesome. Best thread ever.
Mar 17 2013 11:57AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
I agree much more with what you've been saying about the drones than what he has been saying. In regards to our little spat, you still haven't shown me where in the second amendment it says what weapons you do and do not have the right to have. I don't know why you disagree so adamantly that it is other legislation that stops people from owning whatever weapon they want and not the Constitution itself, but you do, so fair enough.

Point is that you come off as just as insane as the most extreme members of either party with your relentless insulting of anyone who disagrees with you.
Mar 17 2013 12:08PM
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aquinn
Posts: 824 - Karma: 217
Solid post. All i see in this is skierman saying that the EVIDENCE hurr durr points one way without providing any of that evidence. I welcome anyone to come out with me and learn how to responsibly shoot and defend their rights. You can have a ball and at least know deep down that if shit hits the fan you can take care of yourself and your family. This is not a wishful apocalypse thought. Riots happen, home invasions happen, corrupt governments happen. I certainly am not going to go actively kill anyone with my rifle. Nonetheless, taking away my right to self defense is unacceptable.
Mar 17 2013 12:12PM
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aquinn
Posts: 824 - Karma: 217
and goddamnit i got sucked into another fucking gun control debate. -1 for this thread

Mar 17 2013 12:12PM
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tripnip
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 482
I will hold my M-16, Ar-15, and AK-47 as long as i shall live i have the right to own what weapons i desire with the proper permiting because it is my right. and yes i have been stocking up on my ammo as much as i can with the fear that the constitution will no longer protect me, and this summer i will be getting my concealed carry permit. why not exercise your rights to their fullest extent. it isn't people like my self that are killing people it is the mentally ill that have caused all of these gun issues to arise.
Mar 17 2013 1:56PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,351
^howd you get your hands on an M16? Those arent cheap or easy to own.

Kinda doubt anyone on NS owns a machine gun
Mar 17 2013 2:27PM
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tripnip
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 482
It's in the family my brother server 2 tours.
Mar 18 2013 5:29PM
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tripnip
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 482
And all you need is a class three gun permit its about the same amount of paper work as a car payment
Mar 18 2013 5:30PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,351
I wasnt aware that soldiers got to keep their weapons. Is that a new policy? Ive never filled out the class 3 paper work because i cant afford a $20,000 gun so i wouldnt know from first hand experience. I can just assume that its a process.
Mar 18 2013 5:46PM
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Skierguy1234
Posts: 1684 - Karma: 88
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Mar 18 2013 6:13PM
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tripnip
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 482
You can do the necessary research and find one from a good dealer. As far as I know class three licenses aren't incredibly hard to acquire. I shot it at Christmas, but ill text him about the exact processes it wasn't his service weapon. A kids dad in my Boy Scout troop owns a fully auto AK 47 which again he has the proper licensing for. And yea they range more around 10 depending on where you get it. There are some gun forums around that is all about this stuff. That is the legal way to go about stuff. Read through some of these http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201055
It is actually more common for people to own automatic weapons then you think.
Here's another one http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=76137
I hope this helps.
Mar 18 2013 6:48PM
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tripnip
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 482
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nfa4sale.cgi
Here's another one when you wanna buy one
Mar 18 2013 6:50PM
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Gods_Father
Posts: 1466 - Karma: -284

yeah brah, america will be the first great civilization in the history of man to never collapse and survive for eternity lol.

Mar 18 2013 6:56PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,351
^i dont need help finding one. lol. Who needs full auto when you can bump fire?

So it was just his own personal civilian machine gun? Thats cool, but what does that have to do with him serving? ive shot a machine gun once. 2nd best 5 seconds of my life after my first time bed wrestling.
Mar 18 2013 7:11PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,351
I saw two M16s in the first bit of posts. Both over $23,000.
Mar 18 2013 7:14PM
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