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Maude Raymond's perspective on woman's contests

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gnarschralped
Posts: 178 - Karma: 123
From her FB page
            "It's so sad for girls slopestyle skiers, all commentators want is tripples and change ups, there is no props on the real sick tricks, the jumps are built for dubs or triples.. its not that bad but they all look like kooks, there is always 3-4 serious injuries, On top of that there is no exposer what so ever for girls.. next thing you know, half of them are out till next season, Again. Double front or double back flips are cool in slope now cause it's at least a "dub" then you go and say #celebratesarah. Thanks for NineQueen to be the only one stoked on girls."
Jan 28 2013 6:25PM
21 10
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emp
Posts: 2 - Karma: 10
Thanks AnnaWski, I absolutly agree!
The female body is build way different: 20% less muscle mass, 1/3 thinner ligaments, a disadvantage in bone structure... Just to name a few! This concludes in a much higher risk to get hurt and makes it pretty much impossible to be on the same level as the boys.

HATING and DISRESPECTING girls like this is not changing any of this! Actually it's pretty counter productive and in my personal opinion also pretty dumb!!!

GO LADIES!
Jan 29 2013 12:31PM
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wameron
Posts: 1233 - Karma: 1,222
she needs to weigh more than 100 lbs if she wants to even think about hitting those jumps.

Maybe girls need to wear weighted backpacks or something when skiing?
Jan 29 2013 12:48PM
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CrotchKiller
Posts: 9037 - Karma: 6,943
To everyone saying that girls are so much more brittle and more damageable(ya I understand you actually are but not to the extent that you make it seem)

this girl puts out video parts that are just as good if not better then guys in snowboarding








i wish i could find one of her crash sections, she takes the gnarliest falls
Jan 29 2013 1:06PM
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I.B
Posts: 8137 - Karma: 24,351
That was a fucking ill edit.

Her switch carves where pretty fucking crazy. Like are you even seriou?
Jan 29 2013 1:22PM
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CrotchKiller
Posts: 9037 - Karma: 6,943
haha not sure why that was even in there. That edit should of been like 35 tricks shorter and it would of been banger
Jan 29 2013 1:27PM
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emp
Posts: 2 - Karma: 10
I think the point is, that female skiers would need a different course to show their best skiing and to progress. I think, that's actually what Maude Raymond tried to say... I've seen most of the girls skiing soooo much better, than they did at X and it made me sad to see so many go down the way they did... They can do much better than this!
Jan 29 2013 4:18PM
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whipple
Posts: 1415 - Karma: 5,167
-> Kelly Sildaru
Jan 29 2013 4:24PM
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nitsua
Posts: 4631 - Karma: 726
There are a bunch of girls who kill it. But if your getting into xgames and getting paid and have sponsors to do 7 and 5s and 3s and straight slides.  Then why are you bitching about it? Your in the fucking xgames and if you made it to finals your more than likely going to make a better paycheck than half of us slaving away at some shitty job just to be able to ski.
Jan 29 2013 4:34PM
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p-fo
Posts: 9372 - Karma: 6,155
The reason we don't see progression is because the best female athletes don't get invited. Where was Jess Warll the winter after throwing a dub flat 7? Where are all those Euro girls like Lisa Zimmerman whose edits I keep seeing? Where is the girl someone else talked about in here who threw a mute 12? I'm leaving Kelly Sildaru out of it because there's a legitimate case to be made about her being too young, sort of like how the IOC bans athletes under a certain age.
Maude may be right about exposure, but in a different way. There needs to be a better pipeline for up and coming girls. I don't know how that could be accomplished, but it would help a lot. Maybe keep some of these girls going instead of having them top out with a one time trick then disappear. Maybe the return of the US freeskiing open next year could provide that opportunity.
Jan 29 2013 4:46PM
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MaxBerkowitz
Posts: 440 - Karma: 2,611
holy shit never seen her before that was awesome!
so so so sick!
Jan 29 2013 4:49PM
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Freeskier874
Posts: 255 - Karma: 12
I am going to be called a huge sexist for this but I don't really care because it is true. Women are anatomically inferior to men when it comes to sports. Females are more prone to ACL tears as well as a host of other sports related injuries (Google it, you will find many scientific journal articles covering this.) That being said, it shouldn't keep chicks from doing dubs and other more technical tricks. Everyone gets nervous and is afraid to try these tricks at first, you would be crazy if you weren't. But eventually you have to nut up and try it if you want the sport to progress. My last point is I believe the women contest skiers can do these tricks, it will just take the right individual to drive the sport forward. Look at women gymnastics for example, those girls do some insane shit that men's gymnasts probably can't do. If women start progressing to a level I believe they can, they will get the media and financial coverage they deserve.
Jan 29 2013 4:53PM
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Ksteez666
Posts: 227 - Karma: 123
Maude is still soo hot, best looking girl skier forsure
Feb 24 2013 1:21PM
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nine50seven
Posts: 576 - Karma: 686
i was just waiting for someone to mention kelly sildaru
Feb 24 2013 2:03PM
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Tacocat
Posts: 658 - Karma: 356
Stop being a pussy. The best girl out there is Lisa Zimmermann and she throws down. Of course, women will never be at the level of men, but the winner of X Games needed an airbag to learn a backflip, while a 16 year old girl throws a dub 10 and a 10 year old girl throws backflips casually
Feb 24 2013 2:17PM
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I_liketobutter
Posts: 2664 - Karma: 997
the female racers seem to do just fine. using the body as an excuse for the extreme lack of progression and gap in talent between the girls and guys is laughable.
Feb 24 2013 4:21PM
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Stickity
Posts: 7750 - Karma: 769
.
Feb 24 2013 4:29PM
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kootenayklaus
Posts: 3914 - Karma: 2,179
There once was a poll the asked the ladies out there what their preferable jump sizes were for a slope course, I don't know where it is but some obscene percentage of girls said that they would prefer the jumps in the 40-50 foot range.

So many girls are getting hurt hucking themselves off of these jumps made for male athletes and not only that, as she said, triples and doubles. Insane amounts of kick, huge air time, etc. Throwing smaller stuff off of jumps like that can be challenging to keep your composure throughout the whole air time because you simply don't know what to do with yourself. That's what she's trying to say.

Bottom line, girls aren't boys, and just because they feel something a bit smaller would cater to them a bit better doesn't mean we should bash them. If X Games/Dew Tour/whatever started making a WOMENS specific slope course, I can almost guarantee that we would see much more progression from them because we aren't thrusting them out of their comfort zone.
Feb 24 2013 4:48PM
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whoa-dere
Posts: 10596 - Karma: 7,103
maude <3
she does make herself look like a dude in some of those shots

Feb 24 2013 5:23PM
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tskilz
Posts: 179 - Karma: 2
Do grAbs with spins. dub front and backs are for gymnastics
Feb 24 2013 5:44PM
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whodunit
Posts: 40 - Karma: 27
Agreed. Too many females are spinning in the pipe and in slopestyle without grabbing or even trying to grab. The judges need to start deducting when females spin or do tricks without them. Judges have a role in progression and I think they are more confused when they judge females, sometimes getting the podium wrong because they've forgotten what is important in the sport.

Feb 24 2013 9:38PM
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ndye
Posts: 3756 - Karma: 7,094
i can see the argument being made on a serious note that girls could be simply physically inferior to men on jumps because of body build and whatnot.

So lets see some tech shit on some rails ladies, these front 2s are just not doin it for me.
Feb 24 2013 10:00PM
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[J_Gasper]
Posts: 2983 - Karma: 1,594
If X-Games made a woman specific course, then they would bitch about sexism. Honesty, the rail features arent hard for woman, and the first 2 jumps really arent that bad. I understand woman arent gonna perform as well as men, but the gap is just way to big right now. A SW 540 and a 720 shouldnt win a comp.
Feb 24 2013 10:24PM
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ndye
Posts: 3756 - Karma: 7,094
Women Pro skiers consider yourself lucky for how much effort it currently takes to be where you are. And take advantage of it, because I really fuckin hope it doesnt last. If you wanna be relevant, become relevant, don't ask for people to build you a medium sized park at x-games so i can see you do the same shitty small tricks on a smaller jump. Im going to have to pass. You are lucky some of these up and coming women who can actually throw down have trouble getting into major contests.


Here is a link to nine queens, a jump built SPECIFICALLY for women. Still not seeing much progression here. Highlights: Cork ,7 got like 5 shots of that. Sketchy as fuck switch 10 boot touch to claim. Flat 5 .

If that is what we are going get out of a multi day big air jump built specifically for women, Im going to pass on saying that's what women's skiing needs.
Feb 24 2013 10:28PM
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Shredsterr
Posts: 2090 - Karma: 6,930
Wow she did a stylish 5 in an edit....I've seen guys throw stylish dub 12's in edits. The point remains that women who ski professionally aren't up to par with the men.
Feb 25 2013 12:04AM
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CrotchKiller
Posts: 9037 - Karma: 6,943
neat, now go look at what I quoted and what i posted.

You're saying things I totally agree with but to say he has never ever seen a stylish girls trick is dumb.
Feb 25 2013 1:01AM
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stormtrooper
Posts: 1191 - Karma: 461
.... This is ridiculous for anyone to say. Do you think that the guy's just woke up and could hit big jumps one day? No, they could not! They went out and trained, they started out on just small jumps and then moved to bigger jumps and then bigger and then so fourth. Girls shouldn't be asking for a smaller course, they should be asking to be removed from the X games entirely until they have worked their way up to ski in an event of that caliber. It's the X games, not the freaking usasa nationals.
Feb 25 2013 1:21AM
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Tanner-D
Posts: 2061 - Karma: 4,116
Women's skiing is boring when I watch X. As much as I love the fact that there is girls killing it in freeskiing it is just terribly hard to watch the women's comps after watching the men's and I still wouldn't want to watch them even on smaller jumps that they could throw better tricks on I'm sorry ladies.
Feb 25 2013 2:41AM
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skierman
Posts: 8332 - Karma: 7,765
I don't think you're on the right track here... blaming women for being years behind the progression of men due to what you see as natural faults of the women body and men "hating" and "disrespecting" women is pathetic and immature. Sorry to be harsh but you cannot address an issue by diverting the attention away from what's really causing the problem at hand.

1. Women learn differently than men. Get more women into it and that means more women coaches who are more qualified than most men to push lady campers/learners/wtfyouwant beyond what they'd do with men. That's a provable fact. It's very rare to come across a male coach that can be equally as effective as teaching a lady how to ski as an equally educated female coach.

2. Women are not fragile creatures that cannot handle a crash. Sarah Burke learned how to do forward 10's over a decade ago and same with Kristi that same summer when she was 16. Why haven't we seen this in comps since then? One of the points made is that no other women has even attempted it in comp and came close. Why risk the potential knee injuries when you don't have to toss the trick? Women are not as competitive as men in the sense that women seem to favor in these type of discussions about why they're so far behind in progression.

3. Women can do the same tricks as men. This has been proven over time and time again. If you use this excuse, quit skiing now because you're only dragging everyone else you influence down around you.

4. For some ladies, women prohibit progression. This is a small population but from a few ladies I hear, women who coach them destroy the one thing that's most important in skiing which is confidence. For example,
inspyahd ripper- "I really want to do a cork 7."
lady ripper buddy- "Are you sure? It's kinda flat light today. The jump seems kinda sketch for that. The wind is kinda sketch for that. Etc... etc..." This happens on multiple occasions in any sport.


I can go on but this is def. a complicated issue... which shouldn't surprise any of us, really. It deals with women, it's going to be fucking complicated.

Feb 25 2013 3:20AM
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skierman
Posts: 8332 - Karma: 7,765
Also you're a fucking idiot for using women snowboarding as a talking point in the argument for why women aren't progressing as much as men in SKIING. You obviously have no experience in this issue and you would benefit human kind if you would stop posting or kill yourself... most of us would be impartial to either decision. I suggest flipping a coin.
Feb 25 2013 3:24AM
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SSteezle
Posts: 9297 - Karma: 7,732
+1. Instead of bitching about the slow progression of girl skiing be stoked they even do it. Shit, I'm super impressed with the level of skiing girls are at
Feb 25 2013 8:04AM
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tskilz
Posts: 179 - Karma: 2
Judges need to back this and bring freeskiing or newschool back to freestyle! trampoline or huck your gymnastic trick is not what are skiing is about. FIS sucks
Feb 25 2013 10:00AM
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Bateman
Posts: 8591 - Karma: 8,600
how can you guys say that womens skiing isn't progressing? It was pretty recently some 16 year old french chick (i think) threw a dub 12.

ad dub 12. a chick.

french.
Feb 25 2013 10:15AM
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CrotchKiller
Posts: 9037 - Karma: 6,943
Go on...
Feb 25 2013 11:38AM
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Bateman
Posts: 8591 - Karma: 8,600
Yes, you're totaly nothing but an ignorant fucking piece of.. idiot. You're an idiot. :)

Click for larger image
Feb 25 2013 11:42AM
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Park_Ranger
Posts: 3825 - Karma: 8,635
She is so hot
Feb 25 2013 12:42PM
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Afterbang.no
Posts: 1105 - Karma: 4,297
Girls are like magic, they get wet without water, bleed without injury and make boneless things hard.
Feb 25 2013 4:11PM
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DGski
Posts: 3491 - Karma: 2,328
JUST WAIT FOR KELLY SILDARU TO PUSH MAD SHIT
Feb 25 2013 4:26PM
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snowbladesforlife
Posts: 2033 - Karma: -3
I'm currently trying to pass legislation in Colorado to prevent women from entering Freeway. Maybe Maude can help me co-author this bill.


Feb 25 2013 4:58PM
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t_rob
Posts: 6433 - Karma: 11,458
You know that really awkward feeling you get when you agree with skierman... Yeah.
Feb 25 2013 4:59PM
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Bateman
Posts: 8591 - Karma: 8,600
but yeah this is pretty spot on
Feb 26 2013 3:46AM
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inthewoods
Posts: 1074 - Karma: 111
why do you think this? Or how would you prove this? I´m curious.
Feb 26 2013 3:43PM
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manzear
Posts: 843 - Karma: 849
Different course isn't necessary. Perhaps take-offs that are smaller and closer to the knuckle along on the jump side...with the big takeoff beside it. They have done this before, why not do it again?

I also don't like the hate towards women's park skiing, I personally think parks need more women. Too much sausage in there right now.
Feb 26 2013 4:05PM
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t_rob
Posts: 6433 - Karma: 11,458
If 95% of the money (guess) to build a course is coming from men's sponsors, why should it only be 50% geared towards men?
Feb 26 2013 4:08PM
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manzear
Posts: 843 - Karma: 849
I think this will still be geared towards men, they will have the bigger take off just the same as they did. I am saying that I two take offs for jumps just about solves this. Women can hit either take off and so can the men.
Feb 26 2013 4:12PM
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codyhotham
Posts: 32 - Karma: 65
Then don't expect the same sponsorship dollars and prize purses as male skiing. It annoys me that these girls throwing sw5s and 7s are getting paid while the equivalent male skier has to work his arse off during the summer or a part-time job to buy all their equipment. Im not gonna name names but I know specific examples where national team funding is being used to fund female pros who arent really progressing, instead of being used to help up and coming young male skiers who are doing anything and everything to progress.

You can't have it both ways. Either deal with the big jumps in order to make womens skiing look semi-respectable or don't get paid, and take a pro-form like the rest of the male skiers at your level.
Feb 26 2013 4:35PM
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Armada333
Posts: 175 - Karma: 57
WORD
Feb 26 2013 5:31PM
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Rachy
Posts: 4355 - Karma: 2,761
scientifically proven that men in general are able to process visual high speed stimulation better than females, in contrast, women see color better.

scientifically proven that women's bodies contain less muscle mass, have a different center of gravity, and have thinner ligaments.

scientifically proven that men have a lower level of MOA which equates to enjoying the "thrill" more.

scientifically proven that men and women react differently while in fight or flight mode.



All of these things make men more fit for freestyle skiing that women. There are always exceptions to the rule, but with out a massive influx of women's park skiers, we aren't likely to see the amount of these exceptions that we need in order to truly progress the sport. Kelly we can be hopeful about, but we need to see what puberty does to her. Lisa, well let's just keep hoping she can keep doing what she is doing. Then we have women like Kaya that work their ass off to throw as big of things that they are capable of. Then we have women like Maude that if there were 20 more lbs on her and a history of no injury tricks would be huge and stylish, but you have to admit, she's pretty damn stylish.

So yea, show some proof that women should be equals. Even lindsay Vonn was expecting to hit around 50th if she would have been aloud to compete against the men. In Gynastics the men are doing more difficult floor routines. Ski jumping is the only similar thing where women actually may have an advantage since our hips make us wide and wide is good in ski jumping.
Feb 26 2013 5:54PM
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tskilz
Posts: 179 - Karma: 2
Ha it's the same money .. Most of the girls skiing these courses ski better than most of you on newschoolers if all you guys are sooo good you would show up to the Aspen Open and prove it.
Feb 26 2013 6:01PM
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skierman
Posts: 8332 - Karma: 7,765
From everything I've read and from the ladies I've talked to about the state of progression in female action sports, a majority of females progress more, or are more comfortable with trying to progress with coaches of the same gender and riding alongside with other females. Again it's complicated and what works for one isn't going to necessarily work for another but there's a reason why coaching clinics for women only are so popular.

The simple answer is that you "prove" this by asking a girl what works best for her.
Feb 26 2013 6:02PM
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t_rob
Posts: 6433 - Karma: 11,458
Not the same money. Do you think Red Bull expects the more kids to buy Red Bull because of Bobby or Kaya? Or do you want me to actually go into this.

This isn't about girl's vs. whatever the ability of the average new schooler is. Not sure how that is relevant. Good against me doesn't prove anything. In fact, I'd hope girls that get paid to ski could beat me in a competition. It is what they do for a living. Guys purely on flow could take the best girls on in slope style and pipe. That is what doesn't make any sense.
Feb 26 2013 6:28PM
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