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Marker Demo Bindings Suck

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Cyanicenine
Posts: 966 - Karma: 2,294
Seems to be the season for demo days right now. I've gone to two different demo events in the last week. Everytime I demo a ski with Marker Demo Bindings I pre-release. This has been true of Marker squire demos, marker free 10 demos, and even the marker griffon demos.

I'm an aggressive skier but I don't exactly weigh much, 130lbs and only 5'2. All of the marker demo bindings I can either just lift my heel straight out of them, or get like a quarter of the way into a nose press before I just pop straight out. Everytime this has happened, the techs always triple check the din, forward pressure etc, and then just tell me not to huck anything and that I'm being silly for wanting my bindings to hold me so well. I've been told multiple times "you're suppose to be able to pop out!" Never mind the fact that I have some marker griffons and some look px12s both set at 7.5 (same as what they set me on the demo's) and I can full nose press, nollie, etc and my bindings don't budge.

Someone is lying around here. I was under the impression that a din setting is universal, that's why din calculators exist. A 7.5 on one set of bindings should take exactly the same force to release as a 7.5 on any other binding. Am I wrong? Shouldn't a 7.5 on the demo bindings hold the same as the 7.5 on my PX12's? When I complain about the flimsiness of the bindings, the demo techs just look at me, shrug and say "well it's set at a 7.5, I don't know what to tell you."

I refuse to ride bindings I can just lift my heel out. If I can't ride at my full ability level then I'm not going to get a feel for how the ski really is, since skis act very differently noobing around on a green run, versus bombing blues and blacks. I've had rental bindings fall off before just because I hit a mogul with some speed, so I'm not about to trust some my safety to some bindings I can heel lift right out of on some flat ground.

Beware if you go to demo, test the bindings before you take them on the hill, it's not worth a pre release injury. FYI I also demoed some skis with z12's and some atomic bindings not sure the model, but they did not have this issue.
Jan 27 2013 9:50PM
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tsk94
Posts: 184 - Karma: 122
Only thing could be that they didn't have them adjusted properly and the forward pressure was off. That happened to me at a demo on the Marker bindings, on like 3 of the models. So either it's an issue with the binding or the techs that are at these demos are complete idiots.
Jan 27 2013 10:01PM
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Cyanicenine
Posts: 966 - Karma: 2,294
This was at two separate demo events with several different techs double/triple checking the forward pressure indicator. I don't know if the techs are to blame or if it's the demo's but it seems rather coincidental that it's only the Marker bindings this happens on, and it's happened with several different techs double checking the settings because I've complained.

Also why have several people told me "you're suppose to be able to pop out." When I'm just standing around on flat ground, not encountering crud, moguls and the g forces involved with speed. Am I wrong or isn't a 7.5 always a 7.5? Should it change between binding types? It's really annoying to have the techs act like I'm the one that's crazy.
Jan 27 2013 10:12PM
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AJizzle
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 522
Demo bindings suck in general, but marker demo bindings seem to be particularly shitty. I'be double ejected on so many Fucking marker demos that I can't even count. That's with me checking my own forward pressure after they adjust the bindings for me.
Jan 27 2013 10:28PM
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Cyanicenine
Posts: 966 - Karma: 2,294
It's nice to know that it's not just me. I'm tiny, and I don't know how anyone larger could ride those bindings with confidence. +K
Jan 27 2013 10:37PM
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tsk94
Posts: 184 - Karma: 122
Mine was at only one demo. So I can't say whether it was the bindings or the tech doing it. That being said in your situation it does sound to be the bindings more so.
Jan 27 2013 10:59PM
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K-Dot.
Posts: 3749 - Karma: 7,828
I weigh 130 and am 5'8" and dropped a 30 footer yesterday on some squires with the movable toe piece yesterday and had no problems at all.
Jan 28 2013 12:02AM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
Griffon and Jester demos are identical to griffon and Jesters but with a longer heel track, so stop spreading this bullshit.
Jan 28 2013 4:35AM
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*simba*
Posts: 9125 - Karma: 511
I've gota pair of old Amplid Antidogmas mounted with demo Pivot 12s from a lot of years back. That setup is going on its third season now and I've had zero problems and actually like the setup...Look makes a gnarly demo binding.
Jan 28 2013 9:07AM
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K-Dot.
Posts: 3749 - Karma: 7,828
Wait they're griffons not squires. But listen to Boax up there^
Its essentially the same binding
Jan 28 2013 9:36AM
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AJizzle
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 522
Not helping your cause, the only time I ever ski marker is on demos, and I have blown out of them way to many times to count on the same din, when I rarely come out of my pivots or sths
Jan 28 2013 1:57PM
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Valhalla.
Posts: 587 - Karma: 154
Came here to say this. I love my jester demos on my billy goats. And it's nice to be able to share the ski with my friends..

And I've broken 2 pairs of Rossi demo bindings so far this year and my jesters haven't given me any trouble.
Jan 28 2013 3:32PM
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Cyanicenine
Posts: 966 - Karma: 2,294
If this is truly the case then that means 3 out of 3 different ski techs were completely incompetent, which sort of flies in the face of NS's mantra "Ski techs know all, do not mess with your own bindings because you don't know shit."

I'm not sure why people are mentioning other demo bindings, as I pointed out in my OP I did not have pre-release issues with any other demo bindings, so the techs were either magically skilled with every other demo binding and incompetent with markers, or.... maybe there is something wacky with the marker demo adjustment that either doesn't work, or makes it especially hard to get dialed correctly.
Jan 28 2013 7:49PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
How worn are your boot toes?
Jan 29 2013 2:54AM
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LC.
Posts: 5952 - Karma: 2,423
Either your "techs" are indeed incompetent, your boots are fucked, or there's something else you're not telling us.
Jan 29 2013 2:56AM
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Cyanicenine
Posts: 966 - Karma: 2,294
Not worn down at all. I dropped cash on Dobermanns last year so I'm one of those people you see hauling their boots to the locker room to put on, I never walk through the parking lot on my boots.
Jan 29 2013 8:51AM
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clive_bixby
Posts: 1834 - Karma: 499
There is a huge probability that 3 out of 3 fucked up. I would venture to say a lot of them out there don't have a clue/ don't care unless they aren't in the shop year round.
Jan 29 2013 4:45PM
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jca
Posts: 4172 - Karma: 6,310
between my fks 185, 155, and dukes all set at 12 or 13; ive only pre released from my dukes. that said, i've only pre released 3 times in over two years.
Jan 29 2013 6:31PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 37590 - Karma: 122,335
This could be it. Do you drag your feet as opposed to stepping with your heels first in boots?
Jan 30 2013 2:14AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Even so, if you use them a lot, chances are they're worn at least a bit. Though it now doesn't seem likely, I'd still check it with a credit card - step down on it with it placed on your afd, if it slides out easy your toes may be too worn and contributing to the prerelease issue. I do think at this point it may be something else, I do have to say and I'm kind of at a loss to say, not anything I've seen from our marker demo fleet.
Jan 30 2013 3:18AM
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Cyanicenine
Posts: 966 - Karma: 2,294
Let me re-emphasize that I'm not trying to hate on marker as a company, just trying to figure out why their demo bindings seem to have an issue, or why I seem to have issues with them. I have two pairs of normal griffons, ones on the K2 Press the other on the lib tech pipe NAS and have never had pre release issues.

I don't think it's my boots since I'm not having issues with other demo bindings or bindings on my personal skis but I will try that credit card test.

I'm going to try and get video this weekend if I can get the demo center to let me borrow some skis. They seem pretty chill in there so it shouldn't be issue if they aren't busy.

It's at least nice to see people shocked about this. The people I've encountered seemed pretty nonchalant about, with one of the techs outright claiming he hates marker and would never use their bindings and then in another instance a nordica rep from the demo tent telling me I "should" be able to release that easily... I also had the head mountain coach double check my forward pressure and then shrug and tell me he can kick off his skis if he tries hard enough and I shouldn't worry.

I definitely want to get to the bottom of this, it's severely limiting my demo options this season since so many demo skis use marker.
Jan 30 2013 6:07PM
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Cyanicenine
Posts: 966 - Karma: 2,294
The demo center people were super awesome and let me borrow some skis with Griffon demos. I didn't want to take up a ton of their time so you'll just have to take my word on the fact that the Marker Squires and Free 10's were even easier to pop out of. I apologize for not trying to nose press the demo bindings together like I did with my home bindings but last time I tried that I fell hard on both knees and it was very unpleasant.

Video includes boot sole condition. Demo skis were K2 Hardside (30% rocker) with Griffon Demo bindings. Personal skis are Lib-tech Pipe NAS (full camber) mounted with normal Griffon bindings and K2 Hellbent (50% rocker) mounted with Schizo Griffon Bindings. All bindings were set to 7.5 din.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QjSMUK1HV0k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Feb 2 2013 11:18PM
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Cyanicenine
Posts: 966 - Karma: 2,294
Attempt to embed fail.http://
Feb 2 2013 11:24PM
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AJizzle
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 522
The k2 hardside is a much stiffer ski, allowing you to put more pressure on the binding, instead of just flexng the ski
Feb 3 2013 12:59AM
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Cyanicenine
Posts: 966 - Karma: 2,294
This happens with every ski (with marker bindings). The hardside just happened to be what the shop techs pulled off the shelf. I can go back and take more and more video just to satisfy you guys but I think I've already gone above and beyond. The lib skis are full camber and very stiff, the hardside has pretty serious tip rocker and is much floppier by comparison. Volkl Kiku's are full rocker and soft women's ski, I can do the same thing on them.
Feb 3 2013 1:19AM
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AJizzle
Posts: 1882 - Karma: 522
Ok. I am with ya.
Feb 3 2013 4:42AM
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CPBO
Posts: 1 - Karma: 10
Well, hi there!
The answer to your Marker Demo related issues is pretty easy and it goes this way:
It seems like not a lot of tech people (at least from were I'm from) are aware that with Marker bindings in general, the screw behind the back binding has 2 functions alltogether. First would be to move the binding into the desired boot position (as everybody would expect), but also to preload the back bindings spring! How to do that? Pretty easy: allthough it might look like, for most of us, that the boot is in the right binding position, a few more turns of the screw will sort of dig the screw in the surrounding "housing". That's the correct screw position! Get the boot out of the binding and you'll observe the screw's tip pop up from the surrounding small "housing". Get the boot back into the binding and if the screws tip is digged, you're all set. The point is, there could be even more then half an inch ( that's 1.25cm) between the presumed correct and the correct position.
So that's why the Marker Demo bindings are so often prereleasing.
It's not a problem of the binding itself then rather a problem of the mounting of the 2 plates (with the skiboots lenghs in mm scales) for the front and back binding.
That means that, if the technician mounting the plates on the skis is not aware of the correct boot positioning (including the spring preload), he could be half an inch off and so would be everybody trying to mount a skiboot on the bindings, because he will automaticly use the scales as a boot lenght indicator.
Here's why the Marker Demo bindings can be well off the correct settings and, because the spring is not loaded, the correct DIN setting (which should be standard) is not obtained.
That aswers your question.
Hope it will solve your prereleasing problems too :)
Dec 20 2015 6:14PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7177 - Karma: 17,712
All the k2 skis I have have marker demos and I have hadno issues at all. I have infact been able to get away with riding a lower din then I normally do with no issues so if I had to guess I would say it's incompetent techs. Of all demo bindings the markers are actually the ones I trust the most. If you are in whistler come try some of my demos and see if you have the same issues.
Dec 21 2015 6:57PM
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ghosthop
Posts: 631 - Karma: 1,027
ha bump for markers being pieces of shit. I've been pretty stoked about the attack demos I've ridden recently.
Dec 22 2015 2:54AM
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haggis_hunter
Posts: 399 - Karma: 207
tomPietrowskiAll the k2 skis I have have marker demos and I have hadno issues at all. I have infact been able to get away with riding a lower din then I normally do with no issues so if I had to guess I would say it's incompetent techs. Of all demo bindings the markers are actually the ones I trust the most. If you are in whistler come try some of my demos and see if you have the same issues.


This, I've ridden some lower din Marker demo, system and Schizo bindings all without issues and I'm not a small or light guy (6'4 and 220) and I've never had a release issue. As Tom and others have said the highest chance are your bindings were not set up correctly. The Schizo forward pressure is the same as the demo and I've set it up for myself and my friends you just have to read the shop manual and take your time and test it.
Dec 22 2015 6:38AM
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supersquid
Posts: 1430 - Karma: 2,547
maybe its the stand height? since the binding is higher in the air due to the bar that lets it adjust so much maybe it raises your center of gravity more. sounds silly but thats all i can think of
Dec 22 2015 8:33AM
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last_tango
Posts: 2635 - Karma: 2,665
ghosthopha bump for markers being pieces of shit. I've been pretty soked about the attack demos I've ridden recently.

Favorite demo binding to tech with now. The thumb tabs are the shit.

Retention and marker don't get along together very well.
Dec 22 2015 9:33AM
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AJCO
Posts: 1 - Karma: 10
Marker demo bindings almost never have the forward pressure set right, so 3 out of 3 getting it wrong is not unlikely. Techs set the din, the forward and back length and that is it they often don't make the final forward pressure adjustment.

The forward adjust screw in the heel plate should be flush in the housing, this adjustment should be made with the boot out of the binding so you don't damage it.

Here's a link with pics:

http://theskimonster.com/blog/posts/how-to-adjust-your-marker-ski-bindings/
Jan 17 2016 12:21PM
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Cyanicenine
Posts: 966 - Karma: 2,294
Holy batman, super old thread revive. Now that I know a bit more about bindings I check my own forward pressure. Haven't had this issue in awhile, but then again they haven't been letting a lot of demos out in Washington the past couple seasons.
Jan 17 2016 7:33PM
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