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Women in combat

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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
A glorious feminist victory in a battle they weren't fighting!

But really, what does NS think? Good, bad?

I think it's fine so long as the women are held to the exact same standards as the men.
Jan 25 2013 1:15AM
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TOAST.
Posts: 7475 - Karma: 35,964
Same. As long as they have to pass the same tests, this is the only thing I really don't like.
Jan 25 2013 2:10PM
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Dobies.
Posts: 1835 - Karma: 205
IF you are a women and want to be in combat/SWAT/SpecOps and you cannot meet the minimum requirements for a male in the same position, you have no business being there (in my VERY controversial opinion). You are both a danger to yourself and your team if you cannot perform at the same capacity as the rest of your squad. I would propose that for more specialized military and police forces, the requirements for women to enter be the same as men. I'm talking across the board, physical, mental, and in combat.
Jan 25 2013 2:23PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
That's why it is and always will be like that, it's not controversial at all and it's not a new thought.
Jan 25 2013 2:36PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
I can counter everything you've said with specific example of women I know in the fighter community alone.
Jan 25 2013 2:37PM
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zaphoid
Posts: 11 - Karma: 15
http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/article/get-over-it-we-are-not-all-created-equal

Read this, all arguments well summed up from an actual female marine officer deployed. Her thoughts and opinions on the subject based on her real world experiences, very good read on the subject.

Jan 25 2013 2:43PM
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howlongcanausern
Posts: 4982 - Karma: 1,737
>calls out anecdotal evidence
>uses straw-man argument
Jan 25 2013 2:46PM
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LiquorLanch
Posts: 1909 - Karma: 1,046
Pretty much this right here. I think the military needs to make sure women wont be a weak link. And if women are drafted for war...wouldn't they all just get pregnant to avoid going off to war?
Jan 25 2013 2:55PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,152
of course they would! Women aren't intelligent enough to determine that having a baby should be an informed decision and not something you should do just to avoid something.
Jan 25 2013 2:58PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
plenty of them do it to avoid being deployed overseas...

not saying it would be a massive problem, but it does happen.
Jan 25 2013 3:00PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,152
source?
Jan 25 2013 3:03PM
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BoogieWoman
Posts: 408 - Karma: 664
This pretty much sums it up. There are loads of other arguments but this is this best.
Jan 25 2013 3:33PM
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Puns
Posts: 2052 - Karma: 429
The whole 'they would be distracted or harassed' thing is a pretty lame excuse. No other places do they bar women for participating because they would be harassed. That's like being.. oh sorry, no women at this night club because men will rape you. The problem is with the men to get their shit together. No it's 'natural' is not an excuse. Also, it's not about whether they could, it's about whether they should have the opportunity to try. I really don't see how this is debatable. But considering we just got over don't ask don't tell, we can see the army isn't exactly on the cutting edge.
Jan 25 2013 3:51PM
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whoa-dere
Posts: 10596 - Karma: 7,103
mmmmm fine military women
Jan 25 2013 4:53PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
o im sorry how many friends in the army do you have that say its a good idea? because i have 4 that do not want to have to fight with woman in there battalion or group or whatever the fuck its called. There was a rather famous incident a few months after Les Aspen removed the exclusionary rules on female combat aviation when the first female Navy carrier pilot crack up her F-15 while landing. that was a reason of my army friends told me no idea what it means but hey sounds right.
Jan 25 2013 4:57PM
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987321654hgfd
Posts: 5133 - Karma: 5,447
Personal experience. I love seeing brigades getting ready to deploy and tons of women walking around in soft shoes (running shoes) because they're pregnant.
Jan 25 2013 5:14PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
Since going to a night club and fighting in combat are pretty similar experiences.

Combat is not a normal situation, and it can't be compared to anything.
Jan 25 2013 5:21PM
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howlongcanausern
Posts: 4982 - Karma: 1,737
>implying f15s are used by the navy
Jan 25 2013 5:21PM
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Dobies.
Posts: 1835 - Karma: 205
PST EventMinimum StandardsCompetitive Standards 500 Yard Swim 12:30 8 Minutes Pushups 50 80-100 Sit-ups 50 80-100 Pull-ups 10 15-20 1.5 Mile Timed Run 10:30 9-10 Minutes

Here is the physical fitness test for the navy seals (BUDS). If any women can meet these, I say let them join.
Jan 25 2013 5:25PM
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Dobies.
Posts: 1835 - Karma: 205
PST Event Minimum Standards Competitive Standards
500 Yard Swim 12:30 08 Minutes
Pushups 50 80-100
Sit-ups 50 80-100
Pull-ups 10 15-20
1.5 Mile Timed Run 10:30 9-10 Minutes

Jan 25 2013 5:32PM
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BoogieWoman
Posts: 408 - Karma: 664
Are the exercises timed? Or is it till exhaustion? If its to exhaustion then i'm confident I could meet all of these standards except the pull-ups. But I'm not fit enough for any type of front line combat. I think women should be welcomed into the military but not the front line.
Jan 25 2013 5:33PM
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Dobies.
Posts: 1835 - Karma: 205
haha i tried to rearrange the chart but when i posted it the text got all messed up again. and yes it is timed. 2 minutes for each
Jan 25 2013 5:38PM
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BoogieWoman
Posts: 408 - Karma: 664
50 push-ups in 2 minutes? Forget that. I think I could manage 5-10 pull ups total. The % of women that could pass these tests must be something like 1%. And who out of that 1% of women how many want to be in the military? The % is so small it's not even worth bothering with.
Jan 25 2013 5:43PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,152
a.) are you talking about enlisted women? Or soliders wives sending their husbands/boyfriends off for deployment? b.) why isn't there some assumption that they're of childbearing age and want to have children because they want to have a family, rather than doing it to avoid deployment. How do you know what their motives are? c.) You do realize there are tax and other benefits to having children, right?
Jan 25 2013 5:45PM
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skinakedfast
Posts: 1294 - Karma: 434
govt issued tampons what if the size isn't right it would be a bloodbath someone would surely get seriously hurt, seriously
Jan 25 2013 5:48PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,152
don't worry- women with a low enough body fat percentage don't get their period anyway.
Jan 25 2013 5:58PM
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987321654hgfd
Posts: 5133 - Karma: 5,447
Talking about enlisted women. Well when its timed perfectly right before a deployment it's pretty suspect. Yes I do, there's also huge monetary benefits for deployments.
Jan 25 2013 6:03PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51595 - Karma: 161,755
Whats the big deal with raping the enemy?


Hell who cares. Oh I'm sorry we only do classy warfare?

Click for larger image

Lets just make rows and shoot at each other. I mean what makes some war classier than others?

Why not just pile everybody on both sides into 2 different warehouses. The warehouses can be wired with a fuck ton of explosives. A coin is flipped and the people people who were clearly right are alive, and the evil people are dead.


Oh wait, I forgot. It's actually who has the biggest military budget that's right in the end.
Jan 25 2013 6:14PM
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MASkier
Posts: 657 - Karma: 704
I think this is good mostly because the military will have more choice in recruits, so weak/overly violent people won't be able to join. Also, would it be against that seperate but equal law to have men and women on different patrols?
Jan 25 2013 8:47PM
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MASkier
Posts: 657 - Karma: 704
I think this is good mostly because the military will have more choice in recruits, so weak/overly violent people won't be able to join. Also, would it be against that seperate but equal law to have men and women on different patrols?
Jan 25 2013 8:50PM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 235
Thats not an issue, most branches are receiving more applicants now then ever before. Allowing them to chose the best and most qualified.



Jan 25 2013 10:41PM
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cobra2.0
Posts: 12 - Karma: -12
Wow, I actually care enough about this subject to log on and make a post...
If you have never had the numbers 11 or 03 attached to your name, shut the fuck up, no one gives a fuck about your opinion (unless you are a leg-ass general looking to punch his political card like Dempsey (how the fuck did he get his CAB anyway?))

The idea that the standards will should not be lowered would be fine if the Military did not already have lower standards for females.

Combat ain't the place for your bullshit social experiments. Weakness gets you fucking killed.
I weigh 190lbs, my combat vest weighs 95 lbs, on my back toss another 20-45 lbs. I have full faith in my buddies to be able to drag/carry all 285 lbs of me+vest back to an LZ.

Physical fitness and a tendency towards violence is what will keep you alive. You had better be mentally and physically ready to punch some enemy fighter in the head until he dies.

And then assault some other objective.

2 plus weeks in the field with out a shower is pretty regular.

Sex, and porn, is a big part of the culture. It is a male culture. Walk into any squad bay, and you will see more porn than you thought existed. Gals better be willing to put up with that, and NOT put up any pictures of DUDEs. That ain't cool. We go from talking about sex positions, to politics, and on to how various gals pussies tasted in a matter of minutes.

Females are currently a protected class in the military, you can hardly talk to them without putting your career on the line. In the past, anytime someone has stood up for what is right and barred a gal from completing a course for failure to meet standards, that person has usually found themselves with an EO violation and early retirement, while the shitbag female gets promoted.

This is dumb, and the result of careerist officers and politicians who are more interested in power point slides and OER bullets than combat effectiveness and national defense.

Again, if you don't have an 11 or 03xx qualification (or 18 and 19 I guess), your opinion is worth less than the shit I took earlier today, and you are probably a total fuckstick of worthlessness any way.

-cobra
Jan 25 2013 11:24PM
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Pancake_Fucker
Posts: 1842 - Karma: 1,909
You're post is too long to read in one shit, therefore invalid.
Jan 25 2013 11:26PM
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987321654hgfd
Posts: 5133 - Karma: 5,447
BOOM... ROASTED
Jan 25 2013 11:31PM
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Puns
Posts: 2052 - Karma: 429
^ that just sounds like the military is a cess pool of harmful male culture. What do you mean no pictures of dudes, what's the big deal? I think most people are arguing with the catch that females would have to pass standard tests, making the part about safety irrelevant. Personally I think being prone to violence is not a positive characteristic to have at all. I think self-defense is okay, but I would say women have that too. I would also think that a huge part of the reason why men are so violent is because it's one of the few emotions they are told they are allowed to openly express so they learn to deal with their problems that way. Because of this I think women are not necessarily less capable of violence.
Jan 25 2013 11:36PM
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987321654hgfd
Posts: 5133 - Karma: 5,447
When you're job is to kill or capture the enemy it's a very positive characteristic.
Jan 25 2013 11:44PM
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cobra2.0
Posts: 12 - Karma: -12
Can anyone find a place in the military where females have been incorporated without standards being lowered?
The standards will be lowered, the idiot/politician JCoS already said so...

Also, if gals aren't required to register for the selective service by July 4th 2016...
Jan 25 2013 11:45PM
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cobra2.0
Posts: 12 - Karma: -12
The job of combat arms is to break things and kill people.
Let me say that again, as an 11B you get paid for your ability to kill people.

(and walk with heavy objects, while going weeks without hot food, showering or sleeping much)

KILLING PEOPLE!!!

Why would I shoot a guy with an m4 when I can shoot him with a 25mm?

Did you know if you hit a man sized target with a .50 cal, he pretty much disintegrates? It's fucking awesome!
Jan 25 2013 11:54PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,152
ok. im convinced. no women.
Jan 25 2013 11:57PM
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E-Nix
Posts: 382 - Karma: 187
Woman do not belong on the front line. They should not be put at risk of death in the military.
Jan 26 2013 12:03AM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
is that all you got from my post when i said people i know who have done tours in Iraq and Afghanistan said they don't want to be fighting with a woman. then said one of the reasons of why. i can give you much more of their quotes but it's all been covered in this thread.
Jan 26 2013 12:13AM
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Pancake_Fucker
Posts: 1842 - Karma: 1,909
So how about them Toronto maple leafs?
Jan 26 2013 12:16AM
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cobra2.0
Posts: 12 - Karma: -12
Why is there a WNBA?

How many women are in the NFL? MLB? NHL?
Jan 26 2013 12:21AM
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Astomp
Posts: 10090 - Karma: 344
There is an 11 bang-bang for you. I fuckin dig .

As long as they don't integrate into platoons and make them coed I don't care.

The outcome is inevitable. They are coming to combat. Can they do what we do at the very same level...in some aspects. Physically very very few.

I imagine there will now be a lot more EO complaints coming from cobras squads.

Combat medics... We carry all the same shit and then an aid bag too.
Jan 26 2013 8:52AM
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Pancake_Fucker
Posts: 1842 - Karma: 1,909
Shhh. Just let the crazies be. They don't know any better.
Jan 26 2013 1:14PM
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alex=
Posts: 1738 - Karma: 2,835
Women have allowed to be in combat in roundabout ways for a couple years now (my teacher who was Marine and Marine combat instructor for 20 years told me this), but no one volunteered. It's not a victory for women it's a victory for womens rights groups and for the media who wanted to make the branches look bad
Jan 26 2013 1:42PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
No kitchen is the answer
Jan 26 2013 1:54PM
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_DUSTY_
Posts: 1097 - Karma: 686
In the Canadian military the physical standards to enter the forces is lower however once a female begins BMQ the standards are the same as men.

After reading the article that Zaphoid posted I'm starting to disagree with the idea of having women in combat specific roles. When the military recruits and trains a soldier it costs money, if you have females are more likely to be injured because of their physique and they can't complete their four year requirement then I see it being a financial issue along with a safety issue.
Jan 26 2013 2:05PM
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alex=
Posts: 1738 - Karma: 2,835
I always knew you were an idiot
Jan 26 2013 8:15PM
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LiquorLanch
Posts: 1909 - Karma: 1,046
I meant draft dodging wise...it's a hell pf a lot easier to have a kid than escape to canaderp
Jan 27 2013 8:53PM
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Relish_man
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 551
Well I've been training alongside female infantrymen (infantrywomen if you will) for almost two years and all I have to say is: Wait, women weren't allowed to be ground forces until now in the American army? Get with the program, it's 2013 for fuck's sake.
Jan 27 2013 9:18PM
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