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Guardian vs. Adrenalin

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SwagtasticWalrus
Posts: 1268 - Karma: 184
Which is better for backcountry jibbing around and long pow turns? No huge cliffs. (20-30ft max) mounting on surface lab. I want the best power transmission possible. Which has a wider screw stance? How much heavier is the guardian? Does the guardian ice up a lot? I'm 6'4 190lbs. Advanced skier.
Jan 23 2013 11:24AM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
I have no experience with either outside of some fondling. I am giving you the weight and stack height of each one, non objectively.
Guardian:2960 g/pair (large)
stack height:26 mm
Adrenalin:2650 g/pair (large)
stack height:36 mm

Compare to the Duke, a well-known design. (new design specs)
Duke:2780 g/pair (small)
stack height:36 mm
I have experience with the old Dukes, and it felt slightly awkward to me being that high off the ski, however it was still very manageable.


I will also point out that the Guardian does not have a flat touring mode. It's something to note.
Jan 23 2013 1:05PM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,565

Nice to the point post by DirtyHarry, OP if you want a longer read, check out my MFD,Guardian,Duke EPF, Adrenalin Overview post on my blog here: -http://aslansskiblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/guardian-duke-epf-mfd-and-adrenalin.html

If you've got any questions, just comment on the blog or pm me,      Joey

Jan 23 2013 1:22PM
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Caucasian_Asian
Posts: 2447 - Karma: 1,665
Mntlion over on TGR has ADRs mounted on 4frnt CODYs, and he's pretty happy with them.  He said they skied really well, adn had no issues with them touring(Gecko glueless skins were a different matter). 

He also has a pair of Guardians sitting in the box.  Not sure why he chose to ski the ADRs over the Guardians.  Maybe it was the weight.

I have Dukes, and looked at the Guardians and Adrenalines, and decided to put Sollyfit plates on my EHPs.  916s for when I'm not walking and FT12s when I am.  Bam.  And Tecnica Cochise for everything.
Jan 23 2013 1:36PM
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VD.
Posts: 4054 - Karma: 4,565
What were his main issues with them, thinking about picking up a pair, no good?
Jan 23 2013 1:54PM
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Ghini
Posts: 2261 - Karma: 3,002
2nd
Jan 23 2013 2:37PM
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Caucasian_Asian
Posts: 2447 - Karma: 1,665
He's got two pairs of them.  One, cut for Nordica Hell n Backs and skied with Dynafits, perform wonderfully.  The other, on his CODY/ADR setup, had an issue with the glue not sticking in the cold on his first tour with them.
Jan 23 2013 3:42PM
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Quak
Posts: 16 - Karma: 27
I thought the guardians do have a flat touring mode?
Jan 23 2013 4:10PM
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josefe
Posts: 49 - Karma: 10
there is no flat tour mode. It is like 5 degrees or something. Its really a non-issue. Its a little awkward going downhill and just standing on them when your on flat but not really when your touring. Ive never used the Adrenalin but much prefer my guardians to my dukes. Would I buy guardians to replace existing dukes probably not but going forward if I am going to get a framed touring binding its going to be the guardian.
Jan 23 2013 4:33PM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
Sweet. There's some firsthand experience on the non-flat touring mode. I would think it would be a bother, especially if the user didn't have a walk mode (if you had no touring boots), but I have never skied them so don't ask me. I'm just drawing off how annoying it is to skin on flat with a riser on.
Jan 24 2013 10:50AM
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SwagtasticWalrus
Posts: 1268 - Karma: 184
Really the only reason I'm considering the Adrenalin is the flex ability. Does it really make a difference?
Would the 36mm stand height be annoying? how does the height compare to the Fritschi?
Jan 24 2013 11:00AM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
Fritschi Freeride: 2044 g/pair
Stack height: 43 mm
Jan 24 2013 11:34AM
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josefe
Posts: 49 - Karma: 10
Yah thats a good point. My boots do have a walk mode buts its a shitty one (Quest).
Jan 24 2013 1:23PM
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SwagtasticWalrus
Posts: 1268 - Karma: 184
Does the flex thing on the adrenaline really make a difference?
Jan 24 2013 2:20PM
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theo79
Posts: 305 - Karma: 70
Bump.

Now that it's the end of the season (sadly). Just wondering what peoples' experiences were using either of these bindings throughout the season.

Any issues? Did you like/ dislike them and why?


Apr 17 2013 5:41PM
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majm93
Posts: 64 - Karma: 25
Toured on the Guardians a couple times this season and skied them 25+days. They tour perfectly fine for what I wanted but you might want to look into a lighter binding for longer tours (definitely got my work out). What I can say is they ski incredibly! Feels exactly like any other alpine binding I have been on. Hope that helps.
Apr 17 2013 9:36PM
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jon@wh2o
Posts: 314 - Karma: 158
I spent 2 consecutive weeks touring for hut trips with the adrenalins, plus a bunch of other touring this season, and the uphill performance is definately the nicest of the framed bindings I've used. Had some pre-release issues when skiing them really hard, mostly on hill, but definately more reliable than not.
Personally I'm a big fan of the flex feature, I've had too many auto-tele incidents in fritschis, as well as it doesn't create a dead spot when skiing hardpack
Apr 19 2013 9:11PM
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lp.
Posts: 269 - Karma: 322
bump

I've had the Barons before and wasn't particularly fond of them and sold that whole ski set up. I'm looking into the 13 din guardians and I just read about the adrenalines and was wondering if anyone else had experience on those? I've heard awesome things about the guardians except the bit of awkardness on flat ground that was already mentioned before.

Also not being able (financially) to have a true bc set up and an actual freeride set up (for FWQ's and whatnot) does anyone think one of these AT bindings would do better under some speed, probably cruddy snow and some minor drops? (not planning on doing much bigger than 15ft). Wish I could have two ski set ups but alas... broke college kid / will be even broker college grad with loans to pay.
Jan 9 2015 1:04AM
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lp.
Posts: 269 - Karma: 322
ah yea forgot all the other goodies that could help out the advice giving:

weigh about 115, 5'4, skiing Colorado (so lighter snow and less of it than PNW etc...) limited budget- not looking to buy the "best/most expensive" stuff out there. Mostly inbounds/sidecountry shredding and earning some turns periodically throughout the season.
Jan 9 2015 1:09AM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
lp.bump

I've had the Barons before and wasn't particularly fond of them and sold that whole ski set up. I'm looking into the 13 din guardians and I just read about the adrenalines and was wondering if anyone else had experience on those? I've heard awesome things about the guardians except the bit of awkardness on flat ground that was already mentioned before.

Also not being able (financially) to have a true bc set up and an actual freeride set up (for FWQ's and whatnot) does anyone think one of these AT bindings would do better under some speed, probably cruddy snow and some minor drops? (not planning on doing much bigger than 15ft). Wish I could have two ski set ups but alas... broke college kid / will be even broker college grad with loans to pay.


lp.ah yea forgot all the other goodies that could help out the advice giving:

weigh about 115, 5'4, skiing Colorado (so lighter snow and less of it than PNW etc...) limited budget- not looking to buy the "best/most expensive" stuff out there. Mostly inbounds/sidecountry shredding and earning some turns periodically throughout the season.


What did you dislike about the Barons, exactly?

The Guardians are both heavier and more awkward to tour with compared to the Marker lineup. I have a friend who is about your size who skis on Tracker 13s and she has mentioned how heavy they feel. We ski together frequently, both in bounds and out and I have noticed that the higher riser setting sometimes slips down and causes the binding to lock back into ski mode. That seems very annoying to me and I would steer away from the binding.

The unfortunate thing is that there isn't really a great do-it-all binding out there; everything has compromises. Weight, touring capability, boot compatibility, stack height, and intended use are all factors. Depending on what you dislike about the Baron, there are other options that could work better for you but nothing is perfect yet.
Feb 8 2015 2:59PM
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lp.
Posts: 269 - Karma: 322
Dirty.Harry.What did you dislike about the Barons, exactly?

The Guardians are both heavier and more awkward to tour with compared to the Marker lineup. I have a friend who is about your size who skis on Tracker 13s and she has mentioned how heavy they feel. We ski together frequently, both in bounds and out and I have noticed that the higher riser setting sometimes slips down and causes the binding to lock back into ski mode. That seems very annoying to me and I would steer away from the binding.

The unfortunate thing is that there isn't really a great do-it-all binding out there; everything has compromises. Weight, touring capability, boot compatibility, stack height, and intended use are all factors. Depending on what you dislike about the Baron, there are other options that could work better for you but nothing is perfect yet.



Definitely, I'm trying to settle for a middle ground. I have tried the guardians (trackers) and noticed that about the riser. I really disliked the stack height on the Barons and they broke twice within 6 months, parts that is/ not how it was mounted. Was probably just those bindings specifically, not representative overall but it sketched me a bit.
Feb 10 2015 1:04AM
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japanada
Posts: 13784 - Karma: 1,957
buy my guardian 16s on the lowlow
Feb 10 2015 1:09AM
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lp.
Posts: 269 - Karma: 322
japanadabuy my guardian 16s on the lowlow


If they were the 13's I'd be paypal-ing you
I'm a shorty, I usually ski a 6 or 7 din and I think that's where the 16s start at so they wouldn't work to well for me.
Feb 14 2015 2:18AM
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minihef
Posts: 813 - Karma: 781
lp.ah yea forgot all the other goodies that could help out the advice giving:

weigh about 115, 5'4, skiing Colorado (so lighter snow and less of it than PNW etc...) limited budget- not looking to buy the "best/most expensive" stuff out there. Mostly inbounds/sidecountry shredding and earning some turns periodically throughout the season.


I have lots of friends on the Guardians and have seen enough to never want a pair - they have an inherent weakness on the frame near the toe and I've seen a lot snap clean in two at that point (the stress supposedly comes from snow build up under toe whilst touring but I have had friends aware of this who have checked constantly and they've still snapped when torqued slightly). I've also seen friends get frustrated with the annoyance mentioned above where the riser moves and the ski locks back into ski mode whilst touring. Given they're the heaviest option and seem the most prone to breaking I don't really see the appeal even if they do ski well.

I have about 100 days on Adrenalins and love them - they ski and tour much better than a pair of Dukes I had and are the lightest out of the burlier frame bindings. I've also rarely have icing issues (I ski in Canadian Rockies so similar snow to you).

With your size and weight though I would recommend the Marker Tour F12s. I haven't skied them but have heard great things about them from friends who ski resort hard in them - they even prefer them to Dukes/Barons and they're considerably lighter.
Feb 14 2015 4:03PM
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minihef
Posts: 813 - Karma: 781
Lots of info on the Guardian breakages here:

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/249454-REVIEW(s)-12-13-Salomon-Guardian-16-Atomic-Tracker-16-AT-Binding/page11
Feb 14 2015 4:04PM
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lp.
Posts: 269 - Karma: 322
minihefWith your size and weight though I would recommend the Marker Tour F12s. I haven't skied them but have heard great things about them from friends who ski resort hard in them - they even prefer them to Dukes/Barons and they're considerably lighter.


Awesome thanks for the info I'll check them out!
Feb 16 2015 2:29PM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 9283 - Karma: 60,896
thanks for the info everyone
Feb 17 2015 11:45AM
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Dirty.Harry.
Posts: 1779 - Karma: 351
minihefWith your size and weight though I would recommend the Marker Tour F12s. I haven't skied them but have heard great things about them from friends who ski resort hard in them - they even prefer them to Dukes/Barons and they're considerably lighter.


I understand why you recommended the Tour F12s and I have done the same in the past, but they're really a lighter version of the Barons. They have the same overall design and drawbacks but in a lighter/weaker package.

The Adrenalin 13 or the Fischer Ambition 12 are good options to look at too, although I think that the Ambition is just a copy of the old, trusted Fritschi. While you're at it look at those as well. I picked up a used pair for 150 a couple years ago for my rock skis/early season touring setup. They have a high stack height but they are proven and you can probably find them for relatively cheap.
Feb 20 2015 9:14PM
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