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The Nazi Dream

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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
(Disclaimer: I mean no disrespect or offense to anyone, just looking for genuine discussion).

Whilst i disagree with their methods, does anyone else here wish the Nazis had 'won', or at least their ideologies had come to fruition?

Theirs was a truly effective fascist government that took a nation on its knees from a depression and turned it into a military, technological and economic powerhouse within the space of 30 years.

It was a social experiment in the way that many reformed or new nations are. America was an experiment in democracy and (eventually) egalitarianism. The Soviet Union was an experiment in communism. Nazi Germany was the grandest experiment of them all: a rejection of the gentle side of man and a wholehearted pursuit of our more Teutonic side - the glorification of the strong, the self-sufficient, and the dominant. It was to be the beginning of a bolder and more uncompromising global civilization that would bring discipline where before there was only coddling; that would harden the soft, and that would not be afraid to say that equality means equal opportunities, not that all men regardless of education or skill are inherently equal to one another. It was a call out to all men to transcend their passive, mediocre existences and aspire to become the heroic and unstoppable species that mankind always had the potential to become.

Nazi Germany espoused the doctrine of the master race, it was a pursuit of all those who dared to dominate; but in the end, the dream of a totalitarian utopia was ultimately quashed by weak, subversive men who did/could not share the same vision.
Jan 19 2013 1:07AM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
Wow, I did Nazi that coming. Definitely thought this was going to be a thread about a dream you had last night.
Jan 19 2013 1:09AM
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Lt-Aldo-Raine
Posts: 2309 - Karma: 120
Are you fucking insane?
Jan 19 2013 1:10AM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
It would appear that he is.
Jan 19 2013 1:11AM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,175
Mmm no
Jan 19 2013 1:12AM
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Puns
Posts: 2052 - Karma: 429
yeah I agree with people getting what they contribute, nothing more or less, no forced taxation. however I believe that in this system, voluntary association and support of those that can't provide for themselves would also happen. so yeah that looks good; the part I don't agree with is the planned economy; central planning can't work because without the market to judge the worth of things, and the influence of cost effectiveness leading disicions, things are done terribly inefficiently. I think it should be decentralized and free market planned (in this situation where people reap what they sow, and not where others are allowed to steal from others through wage slavery, creating, in my opinion, and need for support by forced taxation as a second best scenario)
Jan 19 2013 1:13AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
I've written hundreds, if not thousands of paragraphs about World War II, and read hundreds of books.

And I can fairly confidently say that you're an idiot.

It's fun to imagine the "what ifs" but you're going a step further.
Jan 19 2013 1:13AM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
Why not?
Jan 19 2013 1:14AM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
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Jan 19 2013 1:15AM
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SupaHotFire
Posts: 356 - Karma: 104
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I see what you did there :)
Jan 19 2013 1:17AM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
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Come on, is no one going to actually rebut what i've said?
Jan 19 2013 1:20AM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,175
Because you can't create one race without the extermination of others. I know you said you disagree with their methods but I don't think it would have been possible for Hitler to create one perfect race without exterminating other races.
Jan 19 2013 1:21AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
do your own research. Start with a google search of "is ethnic cleansing good?"
Jan 19 2013 1:22AM
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las.
Posts: 1959 - Karma: 1,455
Do you not agree that what they stood for, aside from the extermination of 'sub'-humans obviously, would've made the world an overall better place if implemented globally?
Jan 19 2013 1:27AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
what, like lack of free speech, no political freedom, no fair trials, and complete disregard for their own economic state of being?


after around 1941, there are very, very few things that the Nazis were doing right.
Jan 19 2013 1:34AM
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act.resist
Posts: 8875 - Karma: 513
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Jan 19 2013 1:41AM
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spliff.Life
Posts: 7847 - Karma: 1,549
surprised punz didnt reply to this hehe
Jan 19 2013 2:03AM
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alex=
Posts: 1738 - Karma: 2,835
ABORTTTTTTTT THREAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD
Jan 19 2013 2:06AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
other than the jew extermination part, i think it woulda been pretty neat to see.
Jan 19 2013 2:31AM
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NAIRB
Posts: 35 - Karma: 10
I have pondered about this topic many a times and really would love to see how his vision for a master race/ society would have worked out
Jan 19 2013 2:36AM
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Dwarftosser1
Posts: 2602 - Karma: 951
You're a retard, there's nothing at all good about nazism. It being a totalitarian government and all, you had no freedom even if you were hitlers wet dream. Sure the economy flourished for a few years until it was, you know, completely destroyed during World War Two, not to mention the mass destruction of infrastructure ( see Hamburg or Bremen for example)

Also btw, The nazi's master race was German, while most people think it was just non-Jewish, gypsy, communist etc. And basing your entire foreign policy in literally cleansing every other nationality/ethnicity in the world isn't the best idea.
Jan 19 2013 2:57AM
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Campeador
Posts: 7516 - Karma: -1,227
Mao was quite good at this as well.

And yet you still idolize Stalinists like him and Guevara.
Jan 19 2013 10:24AM
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Jblz
Posts: 556 - Karma: 206

i want to cock slap some sense into op

Jan 19 2013 10:36AM
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MFM
Posts: 842 - Karma: 77
if someone said this to me in person i'd probably have no choice but to find a large pointy object and beat you repeatedly.
Jan 19 2013 10:42AM
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MFM
Posts: 842 - Karma: 77
also, kill yourself.
Jan 19 2013 10:42AM
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Laurent.
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 25,313
The leather trenchcoats the officers wore were nice do. (Hugo Boss?)

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Jan 19 2013 11:12AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
when it comes to formal uniforms the Nazis clearly win.
Jan 19 2013 11:42AM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
No, I don't. Because I'm not a fucking uneducated psychopath.

And what do you mean "aside from the extermination of 'sub'-humans"? What the hell was left after that? Rape, dictatorship, and medical experimentation on unwilling subjects?
Jan 19 2013 11:51AM
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KravtZ
Posts: 6637 - Karma: 2,629
The NAzi's were off their rocker. They were totally out of control and almost nothing good came out of it, besides maybe some economical standpoints. As a jew, im totally against the nazis and there views.

The ONLY thing i can somewhat agree with them on is the fact that they wanted to preserve their race. Im not racist or anything, but in todays society, with the enormous influx of immigrants in all parts of the world, i could see how they would want to prevent any sort of racial mixing
Jan 19 2013 12:03PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
either a troll or you are just not especially intelligent, op. even reading your own description how could you think it's a good thing? you really think it would be good to have a society where every person capable of sympathy and caring about others is considered "weak" and those who care only about themselves and no one or nothing else are considered "strong?"

you also openly called nazism a "fascist" form of government. when has a fascist government ever proven to be good for the people living under it?

and i'll just go ahead and re-post your last paragraph and let you read it a few times so you can hopefully see how stupid it sounds: "Nazi Germany espoused the doctrine of the master race, it was a pursuit of all those who dared to dominate; but in the end, the dream of a totalitarian utopia was ultimately quashed by weak, subversive men who did/could not share the same vision."
Jan 19 2013 12:17PM
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Laurent.
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 25,313
Not in the Nazi's defence but they did do some good things:

They were the first to ban vivisection.
They where big on animal conservation and imposed hunting laws and a ban on hunting wolfes.
They were anti-tabacco.
The Volkswagen.
The Autobahn (While not originally conceived by the Nazis, they made it happen).
Innovations in film still used to day.
The contributions to fashion.
And at #1, medical advancement.
(The death of ethics from medicine in Nazi Germany was a sinful, reckless, and dangerous decision, leading to untold atrocities; it has created one of the most extensive ethical controversies in history. Through the Nazi use of torture they discovered information that is used by doctors and medical scientists today.)
Jan 19 2013 12:25PM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13082 - Karma: 18,719
What the hell is this shit? Sounds like a half baked explanation on why white power is linked to the nazi party boarderlining propaganda.

Here are some facts:
1.Capitalism and communism were not "experiments". They were theoretically sound systems, based on mathematical research over decades. The first notion of capital was developped in the middle ages and perfected in the industrial revolution.
2.Ideology and personal belief is 2 different concepts. You can be socially conservative and yet believe in a controlled economy. Ideology is what you believe is the perfect world, but personal belief is the method used to obtain your ideal situation.
3.Fascism did not spring up to light in 1939. Fascism in politics always existed, but modern concept started with Mussolini, an Italian wimp who won elections with great promises. In Germany however, Hitler attempted a coup to gain power in the democratic system. He failed and spent something like 10 years in prison. Angry about the loss of the first world war, and repulsed by the strict sanctions, he wrote "mein Kampf": the founding ideology of his party (still a small group). After his release, nothing prevented him on campaigning for power. He pulled all the campaigning stunts. He built confidence on repetitive propaganda. He succeded on scamming the system to get to Chancelor. Everyone accepted it because people were buying the propaganda. From there he formed the SA, brutal police that made sure you loved Germany.
You see there is a progression of events that lead to an ideology, things like these dont just spring up.
4. White power pisses me off, its the complete embodiment of forced ignorance. People that are so self-centered like that should be isolated and rehabilitated. People want to live in peace, they want to die old and never have to kill anyone.
Jan 19 2013 1:31PM
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MFM
Posts: 842 - Karma: 77
I'm just here to fuck shit up...
Jan 19 2013 1:49PM
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Dwarftosser1
Posts: 2602 - Karma: 951
Defiantly agree with that, as well as those ridiculously awesome pants that flange out on the sides.

And in terms if non-civil improvement, the German military definitely gave us some advancements (V2 rockets, Me-262 jet fighter, entire Idea of mechanized armored infantry, the panzerdivisions were very effective, and the ideals of blitzkrieg all can be seen as "advancements" the nazis gvae us
Jan 19 2013 2:04PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,152

Jew think he's really thought this through? Heil be willing to bet that he gets flamed in this thread.

that's all i got.

Jan 19 2013 2:11PM
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Hammyslapwagon
Posts: 1261 - Karma: 1,409
I can't speak on behalf of all Nazis. However, if the Axis powers won, more specifically Germany, then some radical changes would have occurred. I used to know a lot more about this, but sadly I haven't kept up with World War 2 history. One of the things I remember most was that Hitler wanted to unite all of Europe. In fact, during world war 2 the construction of "the world capital" had already begun. He loved constructing magnificent structures. During the same time that the world capital was being constructed, he had also began construction on the largest stadium that would have ever existed.

Really that's all I remember. If you would have asked me this question a few years ago, I would have been able to fill up a few pages of his plans for the future. Aside from the whole world war 2 / religious persecution thing, Hitler was a great leader that wasn't afraid to reach for the impossible.
Jan 19 2013 2:17PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
...and thats exactly why nazi germany would have been bankrupt before 1950.


Hitler was not a good leader. He was a good face/speaker. But just about everything that he personally had a hand in was a complete disaster.

Though one interesting thing to note is that there is no written/spoken order on record of Hitler himself ordering death and concentration camps. There's actually a whole line of thought that claims hitler himself might not have even known the extent of it.
Jan 19 2013 3:12PM
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e.wait
Posts: 869 - Karma: 1,954
[IMG]troll.me/images/jackie-chan-whut/bro-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you.jpg[/IMG]
Jan 19 2013 3:12PM
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e.wait
Posts: 869 - Karma: 1,954
WHY DOES THIS KEEP HAPPENING TO ME
Jan 19 2013 3:13PM
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.AR6rider.
Posts: 15976 - Karma: 8,799
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Jan 19 2013 3:14PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
(i am half german/half austrian just to reiterate)


no fucking no. abso-fuck-alutely no. i dont want history to change and have the nazis win WWII.

its a horseshit argument. the third reich's socio-cultural side was fucked. relying on a ego-centric perspective of who are good people and who are bad people.

the economic "upswing" was just made possible via printing money/faking GBP/USD and THE FUCKING EXPROPRIATION OF MILLIONS OF JEWS and other minorities. dont forget the cheap labor that those (essentially) slaves provided.

there was never a really "positive side" of nazi germany, since every single one of those aspects was just established to promote the start of an attack war and/or to foster the "purification" of the german race.


seriously, it was probably the best thing happen to germany to lose the war.

Jan 19 2013 3:15PM
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Hammyslapwagon
Posts: 1261 - Karma: 1,409
ITT: we sympathize for Hitler
Jan 19 2013 3:16PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
but you obviously also know that all of these factors were used to create either a more efficient workforce (weaponry industry)/improve the effectiveness of the armed forces or to improve the "racial studies".

as i said, there are small "good" things (like they "invented" stuff like "kilometer-geld" or "kinder-geld" [geld=money], which gives people who live away from their workplace money for every kilometer they have to drive and gives parents money for every children to help fund education/leisure activities for the children, etc).

but all of them were used to streamline the third reich into what it effectively was. there is NO excuse for what germans/austrians did, and also no alleviation in the existence of these "positive aspects". "our" image will be tarnished for decades to come, and this has as much to do with the "good" and the "bad" sides, because one couldnt be without the other.
Jan 19 2013 3:26PM
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Laurent.
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 25,313
Of course I know that, I just get annoyed when people say there isn't a single good thing the Germans did.
Also banning vivisection and animal conversation wasn't really to streamline the Third Reich, and not a popular move back then.
Jan 19 2013 3:31PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
to be honest, i have never heard about the animal conservation thingy. thats obviously tough to second guess, youre right.


but vivisection, what are we talkin about exactly? obviously there was a lot of stuff going on in that regard with all the "experiments" with jews.


i might have been to extreme, i admit that. i just think that the third reich was so far beyond anything else the western world has ever experienced in terms of inhumanity, that its very hard to "appreciate" these small good sides.
Jan 19 2013 3:38PM
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Laurent.
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 25,313
Vivisection on animals, basically live autopsy.

Sort of ironic in this very dark way because I'm under the impression that Josef Mengele performed several of those on humans. (Which as I have said before despite how morally wrong it is have helped medical science.)
Jan 19 2013 3:43PM
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Abu_Hajaar
Posts: 2749 - Karma: 3,907
Yeah hitler was great. The nazis we such good people. smh
Jan 19 2013 3:52PM
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Stickity
Posts: 7750 - Karma: 769
i feel like if hitler had been successful then everything would be more like brave new world or gattaca
Jan 19 2013 4:16PM
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Chunter
Posts: 2050 - Karma: 1,894
Holy shit OP has gone off the deep end. I'm German and am very fascinated with Nazi Germany. I guess they did manage to accomplish some "good" like bringing Germany out of economic ruins but the main message of their entire scheme was to kill everyone who seemed "unfit" or less superior and that single mission faaaarrrr overshadows any "good" the Nazi's and Hitler might have done.

They had some good ideas and brilliant minds but the world is a far better place without them. No question.
Jan 19 2013 4:28PM
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miroz
Posts: 10333 - Karma: 3,945
He did do them on humans. That dude was fucked up.

I can't tell if OP is just awful at communicating ideas or legitimately insane.
Jan 19 2013 4:51PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
and just for the record. hitler did a great job at fighting unemployment, that figure went from 4,8 million to 119 THOUSAND from 1933 to the start of WWII, and even around 10 thousand in 1942, way to good to be true. seems like hitler didnt believe in a "natural unemployment rate".

but why was that? because the german industry boomed? well lets just say that the absolute value of gov debt rose by 3121% during the third reich. before WWII, it was already around 400% and twice as much when set in relation to the GDP.

it was the arms industry that needed so many workers and was obviously subsidized by hitler.

i correct my earlier statement on the "printing" money policy. i know there were programs in place to forge GBP and USD, but apparently the reichsmark was pretty stable, with an average inflation rate under 1%.



BOTTOM LINE (translated quote out of the article):
"...hitler build its economic miracle on debts...he knew that his plan can only work if he wins the war and can occupy additional countries and enslave additional peoples..."

thats not what i call a legitimate financial strategy and i dont like that hitler gets "credit" for it and that some fuckheads in germany/austria "wish" him back in economically troublesome times. and additionally, every "famous" politician either spend a shitload of money on its own people (adding debts) or won a war. there is no grey area.





http://www.sgipt.org/politpsy/finanz/schuldp/hitler.htm (its german, but translate it with your browser, so the tables should be understandable, the rest not so much; the article is from a psychotherapist and deals with the reality and perception of hitler being a financial genius)
Jan 19 2013 7:36PM
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