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Obama bypassing congress to make sricter gun laws....

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FatWhore
Posts: 2213 - Karma: 1,098
It's allll over the news right now. I thinks it's kind of bs that he can just say fuck you to everyone and do what he wants. News anchors are comparing it to Cuba or other dictatorships. Do you agree with his choice to bypass congress?
Jan 10 2013 12:07AM
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*simba*
Posts: 9125 - Karma: 512
You're tacky and I hate you.
Jan 10 2013 12:08AM
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FatWhore
Posts: 2213 - Karma: 1,098
I'm not jack black
Jan 10 2013 12:09AM
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CheddarJack
Posts: 5203 - Karma: 7,380
B
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Jan 10 2013 12:12AM
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pmw
Posts: 5760 - Karma: 831
would like to hear more on the subject
Jan 10 2013 12:13AM
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whipple
Posts: 1415 - Karma: 5,167
classic punish the majority because of the few. Just saw this on fb on gun control and is somewhat relevant

Here's a thought to warm some of your hearts....
From: Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia

Hi Yanks, I thought you all would like to see the real
figures from Down Under.

It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to
surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own
government, a program costing Australia taxpayers
more than $500 million dollars.

The first year results are now in:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent,
Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

In the state of Victoria.....
lone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent.(Note that
while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not
and criminals still possess their guns!)
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady
decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins andassaults of the elderly, while the resident is at home.

Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public
safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in 'successfully ridding Australian society of guns....' You won't see this on the American evening news or hear your governor or members of the State Assembly disseminating this information.

The Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the
hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Jan 10 2013 12:18AM
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lands11
Posts: 1818 - Karma: 1,677
Fuck it, as a gun owner I do not care. No one needs a fucking AR-15 other than to target shoot. If someone breaks into my house and has one I still have my shotgun. These guns are too efficient at killing people. Sure criminals will still have them, but they will become harder to get the longer they are illegal. It isn't like drugs where then can be grown or produced just about anywhere. They are also harder to smuggle due to their size. So comparing a ban on them to the drug war is completely ridiculous. Something needs to be done, at the very least get rid of the stupid, completely pointless 30 round mags.
Jan 10 2013 12:19AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
Read - Fox News speaking in absurd hyperbole.
Jan 10 2013 12:22AM
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db21
Posts: 597 - Karma: 61
the way i see it banning semi or full auto guns may not really help that much, however nobody needs those weapons for any reason besides for fun. and they can suck it up. getting rid of those weapons wilk certainly do no harm
Jan 10 2013 12:23AM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
First page on another gun controll shitstorm
Jan 10 2013 12:24AM
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the-honeypossum
Posts: 529 - Karma: 130
if they take gun rights away there will be a shit storm. the people are the problem not the guns. they need to pay more attention to mental health.
Jan 10 2013 12:24AM
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lands11
Posts: 1818 - Karma: 1,677
That doesn't necessarily apply to the US because in Australia they got rid of almost all the guns. The US government is trying to implement an assault weapons ban. Not ban all centerfire guns. There is no reason a civilian needs an assault rifle.
Jan 10 2013 12:24AM
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Casey
Posts: 7847 - Karma: 24,309

Well, if people don't like it they will have the opportunity to elect a president that will undo those executive actions in 2016. A law enacted by congress is a lot harder to get passed (especially because of how utterly worthless the congress is nowadays) but is a lot more permanent. Executive action takes one signature to undo.

We went ten years from 1994 until 2004 with an assault weapons ban enacted by congress (that btw gun manufacturers got an opportunity to exempt their products from) and I'm pretty sure we didn't all become British or turn communist.

If people are so bent out of shape by this, I really don't have a lot of sympathy. They had the last 8 years to freely load up on as many ARs and 60 round clips as they wanted. I support the second ammendment, my family owns a fuckload of guns, but gunowners, give me a break, my twenty dollar bag of weed lands me in jail and you go to any store in town for an AR of your choice and walk around on the street flaunting it under total protection of the law. Guns are so loosely regulated compared to pretty much any other commerce out there and also have several extremely powerful lobbies that gaurantee nothing meaningful will ever be done as far as gun control I just really do not understand the paranoia.

Jan 10 2013 12:32AM
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whipple
Posts: 1415 - Karma: 5,167
yea i agree with stricter laws on assault rifles, the Australia thing was just for people who argue for complete gun control.
Jan 10 2013 12:41AM
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.Capn.
Posts: 1454 - Karma: 152
First of all this is an exaggeration. Second of all, I wish this was not an exaggeration
Jan 10 2013 12:42AM
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Big_C
Posts: 243 - Karma: -9
do you know what semi automatic is? it may sound like a big deal but i have multiple guns including rifles pistols and shotguns that are all "semi-automatic" a shotgun that can hold 5 shots is not that dangerous and the ban should be on the production of magazines hoolding greater than 20 rounds   a ban on semi auto guns would be very inefective becuase people would just say they had sold them, and if they were to try to take them i think bad things would come
Jan 10 2013 12:44AM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,354
Click for larger image

Click for larger image

Click for larger image

Thats a 12g drum by the way. if somebody wants to fuck shit up stores not selling MSRs isnt going to stop em.
Jan 10 2013 12:46AM
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Stose
Posts: 7109 - Karma: 4,123
Someone please explain to me how he can do this without congressional approval?
Jan 10 2013 12:48AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
that Australian thing definitely shows that you can prove any point using selective statistics.

do your own research on Australia's gun laws and then rethink it.

(fun bit of info...the number of homicides in Aussie land has gone down 27% since they introduced the laws.)
Jan 10 2013 12:50AM
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lands11
Posts: 1818 - Karma: 1,677
I may be mistaken but I thought the top and bottom were both illegal? Also, a full on ban of semi-auto guns just won't happen. There are shotguns that are semi that you are allowed to use for hunting. In my home state of PA you can hunt with a semi-auto shotgun but it must have a plug in it so you can not load more than three rounds in at a time. You are not allowed to hunt with a semi-auto rifle however.
Jan 10 2013 12:51AM
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Hippykillerz
Posts: 317 - Karma: -29
There's also no reason not to have one. I have shot assault rifles and they are loads of fun I can see why the owners of these firearms have them. They are cool novelties that are harmless unless in the wrong hands. This is just Obamas way of inching us towards taking away our second amendment. This is how it starts. Soon enough we will not have rights. It is starting to look an awful lot like a dictatorship.
Jan 10 2013 12:52AM
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yourthemannowdog
Posts: 4541 - Karma: 313
Maybe there are multiple things we should focus on...
Jan 10 2013 12:54AM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4802 - Karma: -655
See, there is probably 20 good arguments like this guys right here against gun control.

I haven't ever shot a gun since I grew up in a yuppie suburb and have always lived in cities and thus haven't really been in a rural area where its cool to go outside and shoot. And I travel too much across state borders so couldn't keep one in my car. And my home state is MA where you have way less rights with your guns.

AND... if I wanted a gun I'd want some hollow tips so I could fuckin use it if I say wanted to murk/jack someone who had it coming without getting murked...

But your rank and file Americans have the right to be armed. Believe it or not it does stop a group of 17 year old kids from jumping you. Stops crackheads being pushy begging for money. Stops home invasions.

I think you just need to restrict certain people from having assualt rifles and make the penalties for possessing them (if someone is deemed not qualified) similar to the NYC gun laws. SO a guy who has mental issues and can't get an AR will lose his right to a shotty if he gets caught with one.

You can't really go any further. But defninitely do what you can to target the bad gun owners. So make it so someone can lose their permits and right to guns if they get caught printing in public. Shit like that.
Jan 10 2013 12:56AM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,354
both are legal

Click for larger image

since the majority of you guys are stupid about guns heres another thing totally legal. Tired of bump firing with minimal success? bam, pretty much makes your AR/AK full auto. totally legal, cheap and easily attainable.

Jan 10 2013 12:57AM
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lands11
Posts: 1818 - Karma: 1,677
I have also shot many assault rifles. Of course they are fun, but I bet if I had a .50 machine gun attached to my car that would be fun too. Just because something is fun does not mean it should be legal. Also, this isn't his way of inching us towards taking our second amendment. This is his way of answering the cry of many Americans after multiple tragedies in our nation. You sound paranoid, if you actually think we "will not have rights".
Jan 10 2013 12:58AM
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lands11
Posts: 1818 - Karma: 1,677
Fuck, well honestly it's shit like those two magazines that should also be made illegal. They are so unnecessary.
Jan 10 2013 1:02AM
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Troy.
Posts: 5070 - Karma: 12,549
NO DONT TAKE AWAY MY GUNS. ITS WRONG. ITS MY GOD-GIVEN RIGHT TO OWN MACHINES WHO'S SINGLE PURPOSE IS KILLING.
Jan 10 2013 1:02AM
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fupaface
Posts: 810 - Karma: 449
Fuck Obama, I dont know why anyone voted for him.
Jan 10 2013 1:03AM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
WHO THE FUCK CARES? Seriously, it's not going to make a fucking bit of difference what kind of gun a maniac chooses. There are hundreds of ways any person with an 8th grade education could go take out 20+ people in a matter of minutes. Does anyone honestly believe banning AR-15s is going to do anything at all? I don't, but I know we are going to pay an assload for the legislation with money we don't fucking have.
Jan 10 2013 1:11AM
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DANETRON
Posts: 6671 - Karma: 137
Has america found something else to harp on yet? This shit should have blown over by now. Fuck i dont need the govt to be my fuckin nanny
Jan 10 2013 1:13AM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,354
not surprised the guy whos gonna fly a $50 million jet gets it. Super badass btw
Jan 10 2013 1:17AM
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Errl
Posts: 2082 - Karma: 451
Yup. I think they need to put the effort toward mental healthcare.
Jan 10 2013 1:17AM
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Big_C
Posts: 243 - Karma: -9
Maybe no one? There was a county in Ohio in which there was over 100% voter turnout and every vote for obama Sounds a little skewed eh'
Jan 10 2013 1:18AM
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lands11
Posts: 1818 - Karma: 1,677
It completely makes a difference what gun they use. Pistols are harder to shoot accurately than most guns. Shotguns are only deadly at close range and usually can't hold as much ammo. Shotguns and regular rifles (pump or bolt action) both take much longer to reload. AR-15's are easy to shoot accurately because you can recover quickly from the recoil, you can reload them ridiculously fast, they hold large amounts of ammo, you can shoot them very quickly, and are deadly at thousands of yards. So yes I do think it will make a difference. Many fish and game commissions do not allow AR-15's to be used for hunting because it becomes unfair for the animal being hunted. That's the same reason many states don't allow semi-auto rifles to be used, and when they are there is always a limit on how much ammo can be loaded at once.
Jan 10 2013 1:20AM
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lands11
Posts: 1818 - Karma: 1,677
I am also a strong supporter of this.
Jan 10 2013 1:22AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
Click for larger image
Jan 10 2013 1:22AM
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Dr.Dickless
Posts: 2620 - Karma: 1,392
classic


Jan 10 2013 1:39AM
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Big_C
Posts: 243 - Karma: -9
I would like to see a person with a mental health problem that would do simething so awful shoot accurately at live targets at 100 yards much less thousands Growing up in South Dakota and hunting and being around guns 52 weeks year I would guess that I would be more effective than the average person with a rifle therefore saying it is not about the gun but rather the people with them
Jan 10 2013 1:41AM
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Darth.Maul
Posts: 2472 - Karma: 652
Lots of these murders are taking place in close quarters so a shotgun holding 8 rounds would cause massive amounts of carnage. The spread alone could hit 3-4 people easily each shot in lets say a movie theater. Hell strap 2 pistols, one each side of the shooter and boom you have 20 total deaths just as easily as having an AR-15. Its not the guns and unless every gun besides single shot and bolt action rifles are banned, mass shootings will still be easily done given a sick enough individual and some shotguns and pistols.

This isn't a gun problem. It's a mental problem and no amount of gun regulation is going to fix that. Now if this money were to be used for mental disease research and possible treatment, we might get somewhere. People just point to the tool and blame it even though it is the person wielding the tool that causes the damage.

And the reason semi-autos are banned for hunting is not to make it more fair for the animal. It's to make the shooter know that he only has 1 shot and to make it count instead of just firing away CoD style and hoping you kill something. Gives an incentive to practice and make sure you are a good shot before you go out and try to kill a deer without taking a good shot. The last thing we hunters care about is fairness. If I cared about making it a fair chance for a deer, I wouldn't be prone up on a cliff 500 yards away with shooting sticks and a high powered .308 rifle that fires a bullet at supersonic speeds killing the deer before he even hears it coming. Somehow using an AR-15 with much less range, accuracy, and bullet penetration that happens to have semi-auto capabilities makes this already unfair situation more unfair? I don't think so..... I'll keep my hunting rifle for hunting and my AR-15 for the range/plinking cans and ground hogs on our property because its cheap to shoot, easy to clean, drastically less recoil, and not as loud.
Jan 10 2013 1:54AM
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lands11
Posts: 1818 - Karma: 1,677
I also grew up hunting and I actually have about 10 guns in a safe roughly 40 feet from where I am sitting. Obviously the person has something to do with it. I fail to see why someone who has a mental health issue can't shoot accurately at 100 yards? Mental health issue doesn't mean they freaked out and ran in screaming and shooting. It means their mind just isn't right. Some mental health issues might actually make people calmer while they are shooting, making it easier for them to shoot accurately. Also, if we do assume the person literally runs into a room screaming and and shooting as fast as they can, it's pretty obvious they are going to injure more people with an AR than they are with a shotgun or standard rifle, more rounds, being shot much faster, with way less time to reload. Not to be a dick but your argument was terribly thought out.
Jan 10 2013 1:59AM
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Pancake_Fucker
Posts: 1843 - Karma: 1,917
Inb4 what of the government turns into a dictatorship and incites genocide how will I defend myself?
Jan 10 2013 2:06AM
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Darth.Maul
Posts: 2472 - Karma: 652
Thats not going to happen since the people committing the genocide would be citizens too. What reason would they have to start killing people?
Jan 10 2013 2:07AM
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lands11
Posts: 1818 - Karma: 1,677
Someone firing 2 pistols side by side is not going to kill 20 people. Not even someone who has shot pistols their whole life, too much recoil for one hand to handle. Also,if a shotgun is at a spread to where it can hit 3-4 people it is most likely no longer deadly. It's also going to take much longer to reload. In the time someone shot 8 shotgun shots and completely reloaded 60 shots could have been fired from an AR, easily more even. Also, you clearly hunt purely for sport if you are shooting a deer at 500 yards with a .308. I strongly believe a good hunter should want to make it more fair for the animal. How is shooting from 500 yards even fun. Buy a bow and bow hunt if you don't have one. Unfortunately, sacrifices need to be made. The last two mass shootings both involved AR-15's. WHy? because both shooters were probably aware they were the best "tool" for the job. I understand target shooting is fun, I enjoy it too, but there comes a point where you need to recognize that it isn't just about you and how much fun you're having.
Jan 10 2013 2:09AM
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whipple
Posts: 1415 - Karma: 5,167
you can't prove your statistics either, the point is criminals will always have guns, legally or illegally. It's already almost easier to get a gun underground than legally
Jan 10 2013 2:12AM
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Big_C
Posts: 243 - Karma: -9
^how many of the shootings have been at distance? The gun is not the problem and banning certain guns will not help because the same things can be done with other guns. And I don't know if you are aware of this but you can not purchase hollow point ammo for Ar15 legally. This means using ar15 would be very ineffective in killing compared to the alternative. A nine millimeter with hollow point ammo with multiple clips would be a more dangerous weapon in these situations than the guns trying to be banned. Banning anything will make no difference with the exception of taking away privileges of law abiding citizens. Although it may seem we disagree I think we have similar views yet express it differently. And not sure if about 10 guns is a lot where you are from but I can over triple that myself
Jan 10 2013 2:18AM
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Darth.Maul
Posts: 2472 - Karma: 652
Lol you clearly dont hunt. If i get a rifle tag, guess what? I have to use a RIFLE!!! And you were wrong, i bowhunt and am actually really into archery in general. Hunting isnt about making it a fair chance for the animal. Its about finding them via tracking, sitting on water, trails, etc and taking the ahot when the moment presents itself. If that moment happens to be 500 yards away on a cloff, ill take it because i know i can take the shot accurately. Why would i want to get closer and risk the chance of spooking the animal?

As for shotguns, they spread pretty damn fast and in crowded places, killing 3+ people woth 1 shot would be easy. Get a shotgun capable of holding 8+ rounds and killing mass amounts of people is still an easy task. Also accuracy also isnt a bog issue in a theater shooting or other crowded venue since people are so toghtly spaced together. Just aim in the general direction of a group and youre going to hit something. So yes mass murders can still be easily committed wothout the use of semi auto guns. Maybe a little more difficult than before but still not that hard all in all. Who knows maybe future headlines will read, "Mass Shooting in (town) results in 25 deaths. Would have been around 30 if shooter had an AR."

A shooting is a shooting and a silly gun ban wont stop them from happening.

On mobile = doesnt gove a shit about spelling/grammar
Jan 10 2013 2:26AM
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artfullydodged
Posts: 8358 - Karma: 1,674
Anyone with an internet connection can purchase any gun they want.
Jan 10 2013 2:27AM
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jeR.
Posts: 1325 - Karma: 58
jesus. last gun thread i post in on NS. most, not all, users have ridiculous opinions. there is no CAUSATION between gun laws and violence. skew the stats all you want. they're mere CORRELATIONS. stricter gun laws does not CAUSE more crime, nor does it PREVENT more crime. It merely reduces access to weapons that could inflict harm - therefore making it more difficult for crazies to go on mass shooting sprees. it's about making the best of a bad situation. while I am unsure if automatic weapons CAUSE crime in of themselves, they sure as hell do not PREVENT crime in of themselves. arguing both ways is stupid. moral of the story - making automatic weapons illegal will reduce the amount of automatic weapons available, therefore (hopefully) reducing mass shooting sprees. crime does not increase because weapons are made illegal, nor does it decrease. these are correlations. Causes are structural, societal, and mental health problems - reducing access to automatic weapons can't hurt while we as a society delve deeper into these issues.
Jan 10 2013 2:29AM
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lands11
Posts: 1818 - Karma: 1,677
It isn't just the gun, but no other type of gun can you shoot 30 rounds out of a single clip, with minimal recoil, then be reloaded in easily less than two seconds. Sure a 9mm can compare (or any pistol at that), but it is much much harder to match speed and have similar accuracy. Also, pistols are hard to shoot accurately at even 25 yards for inexperienced people (which is usually who is doing these deadly shootings). Give someone an AR with open sites even and they will shoot accurately at 25 yards. It's much easier to hold an AR steady than a pistol, thus making it more accurate. Again add in the amount of ammo in the clip and the less recoil and it's a recipe for disaster. Saying the gun is not the problem is just wrong, it isn't the entire problem but it is part of it. A mix between gun control, more gun education, and more mental health servies is what our country needs. Not just one of the three, all of them. People NEED to make sacrifices. Also, 10 is nothing around here. Those are just the guns I have bought and paid for myself. My mom won't buy me guns and my dad died 5 years ago. I also have a $1300 Mathews DXT bow. I know a family that owns over 200 guns. Most of them old pieces of shit shotguns and bolt action rifles.
Jan 10 2013 2:32AM
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jeR.
Posts: 1325 - Karma: 58
holy fuck double post. but wow. is this how people think? the US is a democracy. at the end of the day WE, the 18+ crowd here, controls the government. every 2 and 4 years, they answer to us. our votes are more powerful than an automatic weapon ever will be in this day and age. we are not sliding into a dictatorship. if we are, they will be voted out. we are the government's bosses, as strange as it seems, its not the other way around. and really, what the fuck, you think if the US gov't really wanted to use its military to oppress its citizens you think private citizens with guns would even stand a chance? a million armed soldiers with billion dollar budget is a little more than target shooters can handle. your argument is pointless, you can't defend yourself from the US military with your gun anyways. think wisely, democracy is government by the people, if you don't like something vote and make your voice heard. Obama's bypassing congress in this instance because the republicans have gerrymandered the shit and now have to answer to hyper-partisan districts - an affront on the House and democracy itself. congress is in gridlock because of this.
Jan 10 2013 2:38AM
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Pancake_Fucker
Posts: 1843 - Karma: 1,917
Check your meter. That's why I think that argument is ridiculous, and I don't understand the people that use it.
Jan 10 2013 2:39AM
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