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Ski areas catering more towards intermediates and beginners?

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Plankton
Posts: 3226 - Karma: 6,840
I'm writing a thesis and paper for school about a social issue, and decided to pursue a topic in the fact that ski areas are moving away from experts like newschoolers and more towards beginning skiers. I have to research it and write a thesis statement by friday. Not really any research online, so what are your guys thoughts on this?
Jan 2 2013 5:18PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51652 - Karma: 162,332
The people that own jiminy took over cranmore and that place is going super family friendly. Build a new lodge for the kids lessons and programs and scaling back the parks.

There are def mountains fighting to be the most family friendly.
Jan 2 2013 5:26PM
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shredsticks
Posts: 108 - Karma: 33
Families=vacations, hotels, lessons, meals, and most importantly money.

Ski bum/ park rat/ gnarlygnar people= sick terrain,expensive parks, only purchase a seasons pass.

Just generalizing no wish to offend.
Jan 2 2013 5:29PM
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SkiBum.
Posts: 3600 - Karma: 3,909
I would not say that is the case most places.

Family programs, learn to ski, groomed runs are a huge factor, but I don't see that changing, and that has been in place for a while.

Terrain parks are still a huge thing. A resort really needs to have one and be up to date and with it to be competitive. They are very important in the industry.
Jan 2 2013 5:37PM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7481 - Karma: 11,497
Bretton Woods, Jay (Added the new swimming area, so combo or expanding for summer/non-skier things)
Jan 2 2013 5:46PM
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dayinthelifepc
Posts: 242 - Karma: 88
Most resorts do because that is where the money is. Most tourists are beginners or intermediates and the people who buy season passes are more advanced.
Jan 2 2013 5:48PM
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ct_steeze
Posts: 1175 - Karma: 153
check this out:


Jay Peak and a few other mountains are partnering with Disney so they can expand their target by luring in more skiiers/snowboarders at a younger age. Jay also just put a shit ton of money into adding a waterpark and other family shit, pretty disappointing considering how Jay used to be a "skiiers mountain" and now they are trying to turn it into a family resort destination.
Jan 2 2013 5:55PM
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JWeinstock
Posts: 3439 - Karma: 1,352
yes because that is how they make their money. renting stuff is crazy expensive, a lift ticket costs $60 in some places, and a lesson on top of that is even more money
Jan 2 2013 6:03PM
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Plankton
Posts: 3226 - Karma: 6,840
yeah, season passes went way up this year
Jan 2 2013 6:28PM
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monkatizer
Posts: 4704 - Karma: 1,518
our mountain in NY certainly is
Jan 2 2013 6:41PM
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ski.cats
Posts: 577 - Karma: 352
Click for larger image

heavenly is getting next level in terms of focusing on pulling in as many tourists as possible. they have a very discriminating and harassing "mountain safety" staff to boot, and most likely the worst park scene in tahoe
Jan 2 2013 7:00PM
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No.Quarter
Posts: 5257 - Karma: 16,962
Where the hell did you get tickets for $60? Lol
Jan 2 2013 7:08PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,354
lol
Jan 2 2013 7:11PM
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Blake.P
Posts: 9894 - Karma: 3,585
Shit 60 is normal. Summit county tickets are 100+
Jan 2 2013 7:13PM
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a_burger
Posts: 5235 - Karma: 20,715
No straightlining? haha wow fuck that, I thought my local mountain was harsh.
Jan 2 2013 7:17PM
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Inline.
Posts: 4424 - Karma: 432
Same with Whistler. I'm lucky nowadays to get a $400 season pass to my local ski area. As to the thread topic, I think it's beneficial for ski areas to dedicate a section of the mountain, such as the lower half, to beginners. I just think that they should do as Whistler does, and clearly indicate which areas are for beginners and which areas are for experts.
Jan 2 2013 7:20PM
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Plankton
Posts: 3226 - Karma: 6,840
that does sound weird..
Jan 2 2013 7:29PM
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Crehm
Posts: 951 - Karma: 842
Families=1000s of $

Parkrats=Season pass

That is all.
Jan 2 2013 7:39PM
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LemmiwinksVT
Posts: 156 - Karma: -17
Northstar has been really aggressive this year in giving "speeding tickets" in certain slow zones. I must have made 50 turns in about 75 yards and was still signaled to slow down. Shit is just ridiculous. Also, at Squaw, KSL has been making changes, buying other resorts and updating facilities. Word is they are going to sell once their project is complete. All about the money. The big companies will cater to vacationers before the season pass holder.
Jan 2 2013 7:53PM
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gingaskier
Posts: 623 - Karma: 263
Yeah I have noticed that my hill has REALLY scaled back on their park feature and catering more towards intermediates and beginners. What they should have is a small park, medium park, and a large park.
Jan 2 2013 8:20PM
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gigi.d
Posts: 1588 - Karma: 302
I have noticed this at Breck, which makes sense because Vail Resorts likes to make a lot of money with tourists. Like $109 for a day pass for one person, let alone for an entire family? They make bank. It's just frustrating when you are forced to stop skiing how you want to ski just to allow beginner skiers to feel safe. I feel that beginner skiers are in more danger being around other beginner skiers, than being around people that know how to ski. We ski fast, but are at least in control. Breck also categorizes park skiers with beginners which is also frustrating. It just sucks. Sorry for ranting.
Jan 2 2013 11:37PM
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TheHamburglar
Posts: 3895 - Karma: 3,315
bear mountain ftw, they seem to promote shrednnanigans and dirtbaggery, while still being safe and friendly at the same time. plus everyone is drunk or stoned.
Jan 2 2013 11:43PM
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Holte
Posts: 10740 - Karma: 7,816
I'd say there's only around ten North American resorts that really try to push the envelope in terms of expert features or terrain.
Jan 2 2013 11:49PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,898
most people are average/low average skiers, not experts. business want to generate the most money possible and therefore need to their mountain to appeal to the most people possible. thus, you make the mountain cater to average skiers, not experts.

the average skier skis less than 7 days per year and is 99.99% skiing on-piste. when you go skiing next, just look where the most people ski- on groomed, marked trails. Not in the terrain park or in the woods or in the back bowls. This is where the most money is and it is who will purchase rentals, lessons, stay in the hotel, go shopping, and eat in restaurants.
Jan 3 2013 7:36AM
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shr@gler
Posts: 1233 - Karma: 912
just wondering how this translates to equipment sales?
ie. Are you're carve skis and all mtn boots outselling by these ratios? or do you find the markets on who will actually purchase to be quite even?
Jan 3 2013 7:41AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,898
Freeski (all twin tips for park & powder for all brands total) comprises about 11% of the total ski market. System skis, rental skis, and "normal" all mountain skis outsell everything, which agrees with my above post about who drives the ski industry- the normal, average 7-day skier.
Jan 3 2013 7:49AM
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lgbskier
Posts: 160 - Karma: 38
somewhere like whistler is always aiming to make there services for begginers and intermediates with excellent facilites for learning and progressing on piste and they cater well but at the same time you can shred some of the worlds best parks and off piste!
Jan 3 2013 7:55AM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 37393 - Karma: 120,181
It's definitely happening everywhere. PC's already at that transition. It's not too bad but ski school just snakes everybody in both lift and food lines. I get that the parents are paying lots for their kid to go with an instructor but waiting in lines is a way of life and skiing. You should definitely have to wait like the rest of us. I agree with what onenerdykid said. They cater towards those who will make them money. And it's not the locals.
Jan 3 2013 8:51AM
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drumbumocdp
Posts: 3229 - Karma: 1,098
Pretty sure its like that at any vail resort. i see em at key and breck all the time. There are also those seed trap, safety guys on the hills now
Jan 3 2013 9:34AM
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RIP_leos_shack
Posts: 710 - Karma: 3,200
As far as building parks, it's damn expensive, and no one goes on a ski vacation to ski park.
(Except when your parents take you to Breck for spring break.) It costs over a million to build a full sized half pipe and as it's been said 95% of people using it have a season pass and probably average over 20 days a year. So events and competitions become the only way to generate revenue for parks.
Jan 3 2013 12:08PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10628 - Karma: 7,434
well if you are looking for areas like this.

beaver creek
north star

those are all i can think of
Jan 3 2013 12:14PM
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Rayzor
Posts: 284 - Karma: 226
yeah, right? how about no unpredictible carving so when i try to pass you, you dont turn into me haha
Jan 3 2013 12:29PM
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grown-ninja
Posts: 3031 - Karma: 175
I'm not old by any means, Out of college two years ago-

but my skiing style has changed drastically lately.  I love setting nice turns on intermediate trails an steeper beginner slopes.  I haven't done my edges in 4 years and after skiing this weekend, I'm going to sharpen them.  Really holding an edge and ripping turns are really fun to me now, I even though about selling my old twins and putting the money towards a nice pare of GS skis (cant sack up and do it though).  I'll still ski some steeps and bumps or trees when the snow good, even a few park laps when I'm up to it but i really love just making big nice turns now.  Cant imagine being 45-50+ pizza frenchfri might be my new favority things to do on skis.

But back to OP, use your brain, that's where the money is, 99% of people don't run business for fun, as sad as it is-money runs the world man.   
Jan 3 2013 12:42PM
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DERS.
Posts: 6299 - Karma: 1,293
yeah i made a rant thread about telluride the other day and how the owner fired the ceo in order to take over the day to day operations. and his plans to close down the hike to terrain (best part of the mountain) because it takes too much patrol hours to get them ready to be skied.

i think hes a huge fuck and could probably talk about tellurides catering to intermediate/beginners for a while. if you'd like, shoot me a pm.
Jan 3 2013 12:50PM
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therealjalty
Posts: 68 - Karma: 36
loon has their shit figured out for the most part.
gunstock is trying to do the opposite of what youre saying however.
trying to push the big stuff with limited terrain.
i feel each mountain is different though. some mountains take pride in their park and freestyle programs and make their name based on that while other mountains take pride on terrain, accessibility, snow conditions, the list goes on and on. these mountains are usually the ones with a few little parks if any at all. more of an attraction than a main feature.
Jan 3 2013 12:56PM
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Darth.Maul
Posts: 2472 - Karma: 652
Just be glad that we still have an amazing park and halfpipe! Thats one thing that PC has to stay up to date with since they push the whole "I Ride PC" thing. However i have been told to slowdown quite a few times when im dodging all of the newbies at the first time/payday merge.
Jan 3 2013 2:07PM
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Fluttershy
Posts: 586 - Karma: 763
my dad did this to me last weekend. i was gonna nollie a noll at the top of the park and he turnes completely horizontal at the last second and runs over the back of my skis. i didnt even see him till he hit me. i slid on my back ~300 feet down the hill then he comes down and bitches at me saying it was my fault. fuck that lol
Jan 3 2013 2:26PM
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zagfan5
Posts: 2608 - Karma: 144
this. everything always comes down to your bottom line. if you can make more money off 10,000 families visiting as opposed to 10,000 season passes being sold, which one would you cater to and put all your marketing money into? tourism and family atmosphere of course.another big tear in the ski industry ive noticed is whether a resort is going to have a small home mountain feel or if its going to have a corporate large scale resort feel. basically, does the resort care about catering to the customer and making it a great experience for them, or does the resort care more about their bottom line and bank account.
Jan 3 2013 2:36PM
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doGelyst
Posts: 2492 - Karma: 509
this is happening everywhere and has been for a long time. gotta realize the industry is fueled by tourists. Some mountains are able to handle having the higher level terrain / parks, and still be plenty welcoming to families. Others just see the bottom line and will shut down expert terrain / parks and cater solely to the biggest money contributors, the tourist/families.

At least theres always urban out there if ya wanna get your gnar on.
Jan 3 2013 2:39PM
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Bread_Fish
Posts: 760 - Karma: 71
When begginners got o a mountain they probably drop a minimum of 100 150 bucks with rentals and lessons and shit like that. Someone with all their own equitment no lessons and a pass probably bring in a net of 5-10 dollars a day depending on how much they go. Also they have to keep up a park for us and thats not cheap
Jan 3 2013 2:47PM
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Plankton
Posts: 3226 - Karma: 6,840
try buying some gs skis from volkl, this FIS just changed the specs on the sidewall rules, so now volkl has about 500 race skis that no racers can use. got a pair of 1000 race skis for 99 bucks
Jan 3 2013 4:02PM
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Plankton
Posts: 3226 - Karma: 6,840
anyone ski wildcat in new hampshire? last year there was a huge uproar because some big company was buying it (the same one that bought attitash), and all the locals tried to pool their money and buy it to keep the small-area feel rather than the corporate one. we didn't come up with enough money, and it was bought. now they took away all the lifetime passes of the old dudes who have been skiing there since they were children, and before the guys buying it were even alive. makes me angry that they just took away those passes that are supposed to be for a lifetime because they could...and prices skyrocketed.
Jan 3 2013 4:09PM
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grown-ninja
Posts: 3031 - Karma: 175
thanks for the heads up, will look into it.
Jan 3 2013 4:25PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
I'd rather be able to keep skiing at my favorite places because they become family friendly than lose the best mountains over their attempts to remain small.

There is a happy medium though. I already saw loon thrown out there, which I definitely agree with.

Perspective also changes with age. If I was bringing young kids with me on a family trip, I want decent places to stay, a good ski school to put them in (learn the basics, then you're coming with me, kid.) and an actual vacation. (restaurants, outside entertainment, etc.)


it's too bad for some people, but how can you blame resorts for chasing money?
Jan 3 2013 5:48PM
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skibeest
Posts: 419 - Karma: 103
It's true but they can't make any money off of us. When you go out to your local mountain with your season pass 30 times a year and pack your own lunch, they don't make a cent off of you. In fact, they actually lose money off of you. But when mom and dad pack up the minivan and take the kids skiing for a weekend, they buy food, tickets for 4+ people, lodging, and enter the many lesson programs the mountain has to offer. It's common economics and there is really nothing we can do about it.
Some mountains are attempting to make money off of us now by making you pay money for a park pass. Butternut's parks cost about $20 for the whole season. Total bullshit
Jan 3 2013 5:51PM
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BirtDike
Posts: 1258 - Karma: 514
Beaver Creek always catered to intermediates...they opend elk glades and stone creek chutes in order to cater to experts.

Then you have Alpine meadows, kirkwood, Taos, squaw, jackson, G targhee, big sky, bridger bowl, alta, snowbird, canyons, Silverton, Crested Butte, A Basin...All catering somewhat for experts.

thats just in the western united states...nvm Vermont and BC. Mad River Glen, Jay Peak. Revelstoke, Kicking Horse, W Blackcomb, Red Mountain, Panorama.

Jan 3 2013 6:02PM
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CrotchKiller
Posts: 9037 - Karma: 6,943
emphasis on the first paragraph here.
Jan 3 2013 6:05PM
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a_burger
Posts: 5235 - Karma: 20,715
I've always wanted to go there, it's a shame what happened. I have a map from just 2-3 years ago on my wall where all tickets were $35.
Jan 3 2013 7:40PM
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Master_Debater
Posts: 1211 - Karma: 225
Brighton is still pretty hood, shitty jumps though.
Jan 3 2013 9:19PM
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Otherside
Posts: 305 - Karma: 93
Not much help but there was some recent post on here about telluride and how its going towards more beggainer and intermediante terrain. Northstar is probably the most family oriented ski resort in tahoe so you should ask them some questions.
Jan 3 2013 9:34PM
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Plankton
Posts: 3226 - Karma: 6,840
think is more prevalent out west? and try not to swear if possible, my teacher'll probably read this
Jan 3 2013 11:07PM
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