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Where was God?

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ryano
Posts: 4465 - Karma: 1,535


Dec 17 2012 9:10PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10627 - Karma: 7,423
no one is saying that, the government has more important things to talk about then gun control at the moment.
Dec 17 2012 10:10PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51642 - Karma: 162,200
Yes, because somebody couldn't be against making this into a gun control issue and also against bringing religion back into schools.

You made this same combo in another thread.
Dec 17 2012 10:12PM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
So what about the crusaders? The catholic churches silence and endorsement of the Nazis? The forced conversions of indigenous people in South America and the Slave trade? Suicide Bombings? The inquisition. Persecution of Jews by Christians. Injustice towards woman? These are serious matters and they are not to be laughed off by the occasional good work of religious institutions.

So to suggest somehow god being "absent" which it certainly isnt is fatuous. I can walk outside and see i dont know how many churches in my city. people go and pray ar them all the time.

Good men will do good things and bad men will do bad things. Blaming this on a lack of god in the U.S. is stupid.
Dec 17 2012 10:12PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10627 - Karma: 7,423
i dont know what you are talking about with nazis and catholics allowing this to happen thats not true at all. and anyway for the crusades, forced conversions, you have to think about what the social norm was at the time. back then everyone was doing raiding and pillaging and stuff. injustice toward women? yeah that happened with everyone regardless of what happened. and persecution towards jews, that never happened either, if you knew jack shit about anything about christianity people would have been excommunicated from the church, or this day in age unrecognized from other denominations. (westboro baptist church)
Dec 17 2012 10:15PM
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TOAST.
Posts: 7481 - Karma: 36,032
people are voicing their opinions on the matter, they are discussing the video. I don't think anybody has told you you can't have your own beliefs.
Dec 17 2012 10:17PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10627 - Karma: 7,423
im pretty sure he was just talking about them in general.
Dec 17 2012 10:18PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
In order for your argument to hold water, you should probably try to select cities that have actually existed.
Dec 17 2012 10:18PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10627 - Karma: 7,423
they actually existed


on another note, holy fucking shit im psychic
Dec 17 2012 10:20PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
History clearly is not your strong point.

I have no issue with religion. Its good in moderation and many people depend on it. But you're making stupid claims regarding history
Dec 17 2012 10:22PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,176
Yeah, bad stuff happens all the time. Bad times are when people look to God for guidence and comfort. The thing people are forgetting about is that there is sin in the world. It's not Gods fault that all this bad stuff is happening it's satans. God gives us free will to do what we want but Satan causes temptation and sin and we have to decide whether to give in or not.
Dec 17 2012 10:22PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10627 - Karma: 7,423
not crazy, were just not sure where said cities did exist.
Dec 17 2012 10:23PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10627 - Karma: 7,423
i might have brushed it off, but its true though. well alrighty then i guess you got me at the nazi germany even though i find it sketchy that bishops swore an oath to nazi germany unless they were forced to.
Dec 17 2012 10:24PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,176
Well the Bible has never been proven false or inaccurate so I think it's safe to use it as an example.
Dec 17 2012 10:24PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
We dont know where they were, there are very few descriptions of them, and we know absolutely nothing about them.

So we have as much proof as we do that unicorns exist
Dec 17 2012 10:25PM
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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
Exhibit A: Brainwashed Humans
Dec 17 2012 10:25PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,176
You can make the same assumption about athiests
Dec 17 2012 10:27PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51642 - Karma: 162,200
Also interesting that the bible is god's word, yet you have a ridiculous amount of interpretations of every piece. Look at all the different styles. If it was all truth, and really laid out as God wanted it, don't you think there would be a slightly more uniform stance on some of the things in the bible?


I mean he is an all knowing god. Why leave the ability to confuse people that are trying their hardest to read about you, honor you etc. What's the point in that? I understand the point of give you a choice if you don't choose me I'll burn you forever and if you choose me we can kick it in my gold mansion and listen to angels play harps.

Idk. Also there are plenty of similarities between many of the religions, offshoots out of each of them. This group believe this until this point but they think this dude was also a prophet, or that this part of the bible is fake, or that this guys brother is the real dude etc.


Also, lets hate people because of our religion even though (the christian at least) god talks about not judging others, being kind etc.

All these people that can't even follow the basic principals of their own religion. I'm supposed to believe that these people found the ultimate truth, that probably has nothing to do with being indoctrinated with all this lovely stuff from near birth. Like I'm really going to watch these people hate me, and take them seriously? LOL

Then again, maybe I shouldn't blame them. Their god is all about love, but also find with watching everything bad happen, fine with burning people forever. Will take a life long rapist/serial killer/robber that accepts jesus on his death bed, but will burn for eternity a person that spent there whole life feeding the poor, building houses, donating money, and had a heart attack while working at a soup kitchen?

That makes perfect sense. No wonder religious people are so confused on you to hate and who to love.


Dec 17 2012 10:28PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10627 - Karma: 7,423
we dont know a lot about old things, but we assume they existed. im guessing your just saying this because its from the bible.
Dec 17 2012 10:29PM
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Amadeus.
Posts: 3050 - Karma: 382
thank you sir.


Also the vatican supported Mussolini as well as hitler.

check out this cool belt buckle too.

Click for larger image

I dont think you have to speak german to translate that. (god with us)

Also Roddy that wasn't my point. Hitler could of been a fucking believer in Thor. my point was that religion or god is irrelevant in this case. Psychopaths and sociopaths will always be the nuts of society whether they are devout christians or atheist. in this situation religion plays no part. We are one of the most religious countries in the world and we still have the most gun deaths a year of any modern nation.
Dec 17 2012 10:30PM
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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
hahahhaahaha this guy is just too good
Dec 17 2012 10:30PM
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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
I do not refer to myself using the word "atheist" and I was raised in a very catholic household. Luckily enough for me, I was smart enough to see through all the bullshit.
Dec 17 2012 10:32PM
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De-Clan
Posts: 1920 - Karma: 3,696
stfu
Dec 17 2012 10:33PM
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Rafiki
Posts: 3858 - Karma: 2,251
do you believe in a higher/supreme/omnipotent being?
Dec 17 2012 10:34PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,176
Ok, go out and find me something to disprove it.

We can through creation and evolution since they're both theories. Unless you really want to use them, then by all means.
Dec 17 2012 10:35PM
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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
No. Not enough for it to have any significance though. If I had to choose one or the other, I'd choose Atheism. However, I believe every scenario has a set probability. Therefore for me, there is an infinitely small chance a "god" does exist.
Dec 17 2012 10:36PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51642 - Karma: 162,200
Pretty sure you mentioned gun control and religious people somewhere. Maybe I have you confused with somebody else. didn't mean that it had to be about religion in schools and the post I'm talking about wasn't.
Dec 17 2012 10:36PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,176
*can't
Dec 17 2012 10:37PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10627 - Karma: 7,423
im done talking for tonight im too far into this for the night before midyear exams. ill leave you with this.

my religion gives me direction, hope, community, support, faith, belief and much more. I always have good friends to hang out with on the weekends, i get a nice break from school midweek with my youth group and we get to read the gospel with each other. i get to listen to great insightful and funny pastors at my church that i can always come to if i need any help.

and i do hope that some day there will be no evil in the world, no more suffering pain or strife, war or anything else, i know its a longshot, but that a long shot but it doesnt mean i can not pray for a better world.

and ill leave you with my favorite song from my home town hero gnight yall, prayers going out to the families that are suffering in newton.


Dec 17 2012 10:38PM
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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
Creation does not qualify as a scientific theory.
Dec 17 2012 10:38PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51642 - Karma: 162,200
Well shouldn't your religion be able to rise above it? I mean shit, if you know the ultimate truths and are better than everyone else to the point of judging them, shouldn't you be expected to be subject to some sort of standards?

Your post is almost saying that religious people are no better than regular people(which I agree with) but that throws out the whole religions and morals argument.
Dec 17 2012 10:39PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,176
So your going to chance it then at the possiblity that God doesn't exist so nothing will happen after death or that He does exist and once you die you'll go to hell for not believing?

aka Pascal's Wager
Dec 17 2012 10:40PM
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Rafiki
Posts: 3858 - Karma: 2,251
then you do believe there is a god, therefore not atheist.
Dec 17 2012 10:41PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10627 - Karma: 7,423
last thing we are only human, its not like christians are perfect we screw up as well.
Dec 17 2012 10:41PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
what else do we assume exists based on no evidence? Speaking historically that is.

I'm not saying it because its biblical, but this conversation happens to be about the bible. The bible is one of the most important books in history, and to completely discredit it is ignorance. But lending undoubted truth to it is equally ignorant.
Dec 17 2012 10:42PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51642 - Karma: 162,200
Neither has Santa. Just because it's completely impossible for him to make all those trips, fit all that shit into his sleigh, and oh yeah, deer don't fly, doesn't mean it's not true.


There could be magic reindeer somewhere in Santa's secret lair and he uses magic time slowing potion to make all the stops in one night.

Dec 17 2012 10:43PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,176
Hopefully you noticed my *can't spelling error.

Well there is science evidence that goes against evolution. But they're both theories so we can through them out.
Dec 17 2012 10:44PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51642 - Karma: 162,200
I'm not saying they should be prefect. But if you're going to use the "that's what everyone else was doing argument" it makes religion look like shit, and also kills your ability to use the religion gives good morals arguments.
Dec 17 2012 10:46PM
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saskskier
Posts: 4774 - Karma: 10,005
As long as humanity has been kicking around, there have been greedy, self-serving people who will use whatever means possible (including religion) to reach their goals, whatever they may be. This doesn't make them religious people. Just people with a means to an end. It goes both ways.

Hitler used the German church to rise to power because he knew it would resonate with certain populations. Was he a Christian? I would argue no.

The Catholic Church does not speak on behalf of all Christians. They don't now and they didn't in the past. Dietrich Bonhoeffer was one of the greatest Christian theologen's of our time and he not only opposed the Nazi's, he played a large part in informing the British government what was going on in Germany and was part of a plot to assassinate HItler.

While he didn't begin or finish the quest of the abolition of slavery, William Wilberforce was a devout Christian who worked tirelessly to end the slave trade.

I agree that good men will do good things and bad men will do bad things.

Almost everyday there is a thread somewhere on NS trying to debunk God and religion, but the moment something bad happens, the entire NS population is offering prayers to the victims families. I'm not commenting one way or another and I'm not trying to take away from people offering their condolences, but it is a relevant observation.

Sorry for my scattered thoughts.
Dec 17 2012 10:50PM
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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
The odds you're talking about would be like me betting my entire life savings on the lakers to beat a middle school basketball squad. I refuse to waste my life on something that almost definitely will not happen/doesn't exist.
Dec 17 2012 10:51PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,176
I got finals tomorrow so I'm outta here, Zimmerman if you want to continue debating that's fine. Don't worry I'll respond to your posts later.
Dec 17 2012 10:51PM
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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
No I do not. I believe anything is possible. Therefore I believe there's about as much chance of there being a god as there is of a teapot orbiting Jupiter. I do not believe anything is absolute.
Dec 17 2012 10:52PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,176
"almost definitely" so you can't be sure can you.

All right now I'm outta here
Dec 17 2012 10:53PM
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percs
Posts: 2280 - Karma: 5,788
Part of being a Christain or believing God is trusting Him through the times that are hard. Just because someone believes in God doesnt mean there wont be any hardships, it means when there is hardships he will give you the strength to get through them.
Dec 17 2012 10:53PM
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Italian.Stallion
Posts: 564 - Karma: 101
Evolutionary science is not just a theory. It is a whole field of scientific thought, equivalent to something like ecology. If there is any "evidence" that somehow disproves an entire field of biology, please explain it. You are probably much more knowledgeable than the scientists who have studied evolutionary science their whole lives.
Dec 17 2012 10:56PM
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Rafiki
Posts: 3858 - Karma: 2,251
"Therefore for me, there is an infinitely small chance a "god" does exist. "
you can't say that you believe there is any chance that God/a god does exist, and then turn around and say you don't believe he exists. that's backwards logic.
Dec 17 2012 10:56PM
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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
I can't be sure of anything. I don't believe in faith. I refuse to base my life off of something like that.
Dec 17 2012 10:57PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51642 - Karma: 162,200
That's such a shit argument. The reason why he says "anything is possible" is that it really is. There are things that we don't have a chance of even hoping to know at the moment. There are much smaller scale things that we're just learning now, we aren't even close to answering the ultimate questions.

His position is valid because he doesn't claim to hold all the answers, yet is open to finding out a possibility which he believe was unlikely, is actually the truth.

The problem with religion, is you believe that you have the ultimate answers. You "KNOW" what happened, and at that point, you've successfully sealed off your mind to the possibility of ever being proven wrong. If you aren't open to that possibility, you can never really hope to achieve any real progress. Look in the past at all the things we "KNEW" that ended up being wrong. Look at the fight that people put up to hold onto those things.

I would rather be in a position to say "I just don't know" about certain things, than to pretend that I have answers that I couldn't possibly have. It just makes more sense.

To me that's what makes the bible a huge boulder in the the road to progress. Everything's so absolute, that you don't give the possibility that you could in the end be wrong. If you aren't open to being wrong, you can't say you've looked at a situation objectively and really lead a decent path to your conclusion.
Dec 17 2012 11:03PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51642 - Karma: 162,200
You can pull strength from anything. When I pulled my strength from god, vs. pulling my strength from anything, nothing really changes. Actually had better luck with getting my strength elsewhere.

And before "You just weren't really a christian". I feel I was religious as anybody. I was brought up with it all, I knew all the songs, the versus. I believe it all, I told people about it. I KNEW I was going to heaven, I KNEW God was real, I KNEW that other people were wrong and we were right.

Glad that when I went on a quest to make sure I was right, that I went on a pretty good quest. Lol at people who question their faith but really never question it. They have the slightest doubts but deep inside always know the answers are God.

Dec 17 2012 11:08PM
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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
So much this.

As Bill Maher once said, "I belong to the religion of I DON'T KNOW!"
Dec 17 2012 11:09PM
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AwR
Posts: 5147 - Karma: 1,880
If god gives life he's and indian giver.
Dec 17 2012 11:24PM
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