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Greater Equality: How Equality Effectively Determines a Nation's Social Aspects

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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
Facts do not lie. Facts all come with points of view, but this time the point of view came with the facts.

A wealth of studies were done and they all came to one conclusion: Health and social problems are directly related to how bad inequality is in a certain country, while general wealth has little to no correlation.

It isn't about how much money we spend. Nearly every aspect of a society usually somehow comes back to one factor: equality.

Inequality in the US today is worse than it was during the Roman Empire. Health and social problems are also among the worst.

Imprisonment, suicide, obesity, social mobility, homicide, education performance, you name it are not related to GDP. It is related to how evenly that wealth is distributed.

This is all explained and backed in a much more well-written format.

"Greater Equality: The Hidden Key to Better Health and Higher Scores"
Here's the PDF for those who would like to read the full article:
 http://www.aft.org/pdfs/americaneducator/spring2011/Wilkinson.pdf
I would HIGHLY recommend reading that.

This does not come with an opinion by me.

Facts do not lie.



Dec 16 2012 9:04PM
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Stickity
Posts: 7750 - Karma: 769
would you really appreciate everyone bitching at you constantly and telling you to just give them your money that you worked hard for? not really.
Dec 26 2012 9:15AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
maybe not, but i'd more than willingly give any money i had but didn't need away without anyone asking.
Dec 26 2012 9:49AM
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Stickity
Posts: 7750 - Karma: 769
speaking theoretically is really easy
Dec 26 2012 9:50AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
you're right, it is. for example, your question about me getting annoyed if people were constantly asking for money was also very theoretical. my theoretical was just a response to your theoretical.
Dec 26 2012 10:17AM
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PurpleReign
Posts: 148 - Karma: 90
lolwut?? Should we worry about maybe ticking off a few rich, white dudes with more money than they could ever spend, or should we worry about giving someone an actual chance to survive and provide for themselves in a country that boasts such wealth and power?

The problem is, is that we've all lost the ability to walk a mile in someone else's shoes, because those shoes are so damn different than our own. Poor people, hell even middle-class people, will most likely never know what its like to not have to worry about money and the financial independence of their children. Vice versa, rich people, and again the middle-class, will most likely never know what it's like to live in a ghetto and struggle to put food on the table every night.

But does this mean erring on the side of caution is to not tick off some rich people? Hell no! I would much rather err on the side of caution and provide disadvantaged people with the resources necessary to lead a respectable and contributory life. That will help ALL of us. Greed is a nasty fucking thing and there's way to much of it going around these days.
Dec 26 2012 12:05PM
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Stickity
Posts: 7750 - Karma: 769
you say that but then everyone flips the fuck out because someone points out that communism is the exact same thing. and there's a difference between greed and telling someone to fuck off and stop asking for an undeserved handout. and before you attack me, i do think it's retarded how much money some people have
Dec 26 2012 12:08PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
yeah, well, if we could get communism or socialism to work it would be much better than the free-market capitalism we have now. unfortunately the idea of capitalism has become so ingrained in our culture that, like you said, any mention of socialism makes people freak out and call you an american hating commie.
Dec 26 2012 12:22PM
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PurpleReign
Posts: 148 - Karma: 90
Communism is not "the exact same thing." I'm not promoting total equality, common ownership, doing away with currency, gini coefficient of zero etc. I'm promoting a system that reduces our inequality by 10-20 gini points, getting us closer to some of the developed countries around the world that enjoy a much better quality of life than we do.

I agree with you, the question is HOW do we reduce inequality as fairly as possible. You're right, no one wants to feel like they're getting hounded to give up their wealth for undeserving causes. I was simply stating that if I were to choose a side on the basis of being cautious, I would choose to bolster our social safety net. The fact remains, that the vast majority of people receiving assistance from social programs are working their asses off, paycheck to paycheck, and simply need that last little bit of help to make ends meet every night at the dinner table. For gosh sakes, over 50% of people receiving food stamps are children, I'm not about to let that kind of assistance dry up just to make sure that one rich dude doesn't get his jimmies rustled.
Dec 26 2012 12:26PM
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InFlames
Posts: 534 - Karma: -25
The welfare state is unsustainable in a country as large as America. Read anything by Ron Paul, Murray Rothbaard or Ludwig Von Mises. They'll all echo the same sentiment, it doesn't work and it will never work. Pure, unadulterated capitalism is the only thing that's sustainable long term. I shouldn't have to be TOLD by the government to give my money away, that's authoritarian.


Furthermore, it's been historically proven that country's that move towards a more formal welfare state and socialist policies soon devolve into an authoritarian state as a means to coerce the population into submission. The government does not have the people's best interest at heart, and the greatest gift our founding fathers gave to us was a serious distrust of government and authority. We seem to have lost that.


Molon Labe, don't tread on me. I've never needed government to hold my hand.
Dec 26 2012 1:06PM
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Stickity
Posts: 7750 - Karma: 769
that's mostly because communism simply does not and can not work
Dec 26 2012 1:08PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
it hasn't worked, but that doesn't mean it can't.
Dec 26 2012 1:11PM
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InFlames
Posts: 534 - Karma: -25
No. Read socialism by Ludwig Von Mises, he simply lays out why centralized economies fail time and time again. It's incompatible with human spirit(as shown by Sir Arthur Keith) and it fails in one simple respect. It tries to guess things in the market, when it has been shown historically that every time humans try to set a price..they get it wrong.
Dec 26 2012 1:16PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
where do you come up with the idea that the government doesn't have the people's best interest at heart? who is the government looking out for, then? i think, after 200+ years of a successful democracy, it is safe to say that politicians don't secretly get into politics with the plan of becoming a king or dictator and taking sole control of the country.

and the scandinavian countries have a huge welfare state and are very socialist, and the people living there are some of the happiest on earth.
Dec 26 2012 1:17PM
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InFlames
Posts: 534 - Karma: -25
When bills like the NDAA pass. When the president of the country orders drones to kill thousands of innocent citizens abroad, not caring about blowback and how it will affect American citizens. Tyranny is a very real thing, and America seems to have forgotten that.


Scandinavian countries also aren't the size of America and are generally coupled with a very liberal economy. Canada works because it only has 30 million people. Multiply that by 10, it stops working so well.
Dec 26 2012 1:25PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
those things are hardly examples of tyranny, are they?

yeah, i know. you're right that often times more socialist governments/economies fail, but i'm just pointing out it isn't always the case. though, you're right, there do seem to be ideal conditions a country needs in order for it to work and america certainly doesn't match the criteria
Dec 26 2012 1:32PM
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InFlames
Posts: 534 - Karma: -25
Definition of TYRANNY

1
: oppressive power ; especially : oppressive power exerted by government




The NDAA allows INDEFINITE DETENTION OF U.S. CITIZENS WITHOUT TRIAL. HABEAS CORPUS NO LONGER EXISTS. If it doesn't fucking freak you out that the government, without reason can put you in prison and throw away the key. There's something very wrong with you.
Dec 26 2012 1:36PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
until they actually start picking people up off the street and throwing them in jail, i dont see any reason to freak out.
Dec 26 2012 1:45PM
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Stickity
Posts: 7750 - Karma: 769
so bypassing the entire bill of rights isn't a big deal?
Dec 26 2012 1:46PM
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InFlames
Posts: 534 - Karma: -25
Warrantless wiretapping is also coming up for vote in the senate tomorrow too. Betcha didn't know that!


Dec 26 2012 1:50PM
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PurpleReign
Posts: 148 - Karma: 90
Citing examples like this hardly begins to prove your point. Those against social programs are so darn quick to point to the smallest pieces of evidence that are the result of minuscule sample sizes. Oh, look at that lazy guy who takes advantage of welfare. Oh, look at that guy who was detained by the government for not doing anything wrong. You didn't even give an example with that one, how can you possibly use that as a counter argument for a social safety net!? Especially when inequality LEADS to crime! It just makes you out to be a tinfoil-hat-wearing, government-is-out-to-get-me fool.

Why not try to refute the very good things that social programs do accomplish? Maybe you missed my post on the page before. Take a look and see what you think.

The very root of this argument is based on inequality being good, or inequality being bad. Let's start with that one, I think you'll find it very difficult to argue the former. It's pointless to argue about how the problem should be solved if we disagree whether or not a problem exists.
Dec 26 2012 1:53PM
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InFlames
Posts: 534 - Karma: -25
Bitch I already refuted your stupid ass post last page in like a paragraph when I was on my phone. Go back and look. Inequality exists for a much deeper reason than simply economic hardship.


I don't need examples for that. The mere fact the government is TRYING TO DO THAT proves my point. That they resort to authoritarian means to keep the populace under control. People voting for more social safety nets no longer view it as help from the government. They view it as a public trough for their consumption.
Dec 26 2012 1:58PM
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BlackCupid
Posts: 1533 - Karma: 9
Why you posting all this academic shit? This is Newschoolers; I ain't come here to play school.
Dec 26 2012 2:05PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
like i said, until they start blatantly abusing the power, no, i don't think so.
Dec 26 2012 2:06PM
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InFlames
Posts: 534 - Karma: -25
You're braindead. I hope they ship you off to the FEMA death camps first!
Dec 26 2012 2:08PM
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PurpleReign
Posts: 148 - Karma: 90
Of course inequality exists for a plethora of other reasons aside from economic hardship, but you're still not answering the question. Is inequality good or bad? That is the topic of this thread.

I'll go first. I believe that inequality is bad. It polarizes our nation and prevents us from enacting policies that truly improve our quality of life. While we cannot fix some of the causes of inequality, such as those entrenched in certain social dogmas held by various segments of the population, I think we CAN combat it using responsible economic policy. Capitalism has some great qualities. Socialism has some great qualities. There is no reason why we cannot cherry pick the policies that have proven to improve quality of life and encourage continued economic growth.
Dec 26 2012 2:10PM
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InFlames
Posts: 534 - Karma: -25
Inequality is good. It breeds competition, from a rawness standpoint it's incredibly important. I suggest you read more on the evolution of man. It really opened my eyes.
Dec 26 2012 2:12PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
what competition is there when the inequality is so vast? the middle to lower class has no chance of catching up to the very rich; they don't compete as they aren't even on the same playing field.

competition is the good side of capitalism and the need to compete is what makes the economy keep growing, but there is nothing good about the levels of inequality in america being as big as the are.
Dec 26 2012 2:42PM
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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
Lol, yes. The study accounted for slavery.
Dec 26 2012 3:41PM
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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
Looks like you didn't read the pamphlet...or you're just retarded.
Dec 26 2012 4:11PM
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IDMT_BC024
Posts: 224 - Karma: 129
Never use evolution in this context again if you want anyone with even a basic college education to take you seriously. Nations are counter productive to evolution? Seriously do you have any idea what you're talking about or are you just choosing words because they sound impressive to you? Jesus I don't give a fuck about the rest of your bullshit posts but this is so stupid I had to say something.
I'd take the conservatives on this site more seriously if 90% of them didn't come off as high schoolers who have learned just enough to think they're smart but not enough to realize how stupid they really are. Although this applies to about 80% of the NS liberals too.
You aren't helping your position by posting shit like this.

Dec 26 2012 4:30PM
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IDMT_BC024
Posts: 224 - Karma: 129
Holy shit again? I should have gone onto the next page before I replied. You have such a weak concept of the theory of evolution its painful. Competition is not necessarily an evolutionary advantage, in many cases its counter productive. You seem to believe the common misperception that evolution has some ultimate goal of producing an "ideal" species and that evolution means constant competition.
I'd take the time to go into detail and explain to you just how wrong you are but I have the feeling that you're the kind of person that ignores everything that doesn't fit into your preconceived view of the world.
Dec 26 2012 4:42PM
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Gods_Father
Posts: 1466 - Karma: -284

wow, i think it would be a good idea for you to wake the fuck up....

Dec 26 2012 4:46PM
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Zimmerman
Posts: 6992 - Karma: 1,021
So much this. Watts you're doing an alright job in here but I couldn't believe you said that. To me it doesn't matter whether they use it or not. The simple fact that the NDAA got passed is an injustice.
Dec 26 2012 5:00PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
So you would rather have the poor stay as poor as they are as long as the rich don't get any richer to keep inequality down? Haha great logic, but most poor people would disagree
Dec 26 2012 5:40PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Who in America sleeps under a box you exaggerating fuck
Dec 26 2012 5:57PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Who the flying fuck are you to decide how much money someone needs? Dude you need to chill out you're embarrassing yourself
Dec 26 2012 5:58PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Haha course you would sweetheart! Or maybe you would appreciate the hard work that you out in to make that money and think twice. Haha I love this bum watts
Dec 26 2012 6:01PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Poor people don't have a chance to survive and provide for them self? Haha. The jealousy rant never gets old
Dec 26 2012 6:04PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Yes. IF we could get socialism to work. That's a big if. Go to Venezuela, I heard the kidnappers are nice there. Or look at the user. Also you say capitalism is ingrained in every bodies minds. Didn't we just reelect someone who is virtually socialist? A huge part of our country is on board with socialism whether they know it or not. All they know is they want free stuff from the government. We have a bunch of ungrateful assholes like you watching MTV cribs and getting pissed that their house isn't that big so they start bitching about the rich having too much money. You don't understand that the super rich in this country have choices. they can move our money to Australia, Singapore, Hong Kong.... All places where the poor dont bitch about cannibalizing the rich and money holds its value
Dec 26 2012 6:13PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Also the reason we don't have a q of l like many European countries is because we have a bunch of tool political science majors like those posting in this thread who add zero value to society and have 0 math science ability and make us engineering a complete fucking joke compared to that in a country like Germany. We are a nation of writers artists lawyers and people who expect to be payed to do something which marginally improves society if at all. Germany is about to dump Greece off its balance sheet just as the us should dump the people that bitch about rich ppl. You want to know what improves q of l it's engineering. Not pillaging the rich. The fact that this thread is full pol sci sociology majors shows what the fuck is wrong with America. Didn't do well in math? Fuck off, because that means you are inferior
Dec 26 2012 6:24PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
No. Actually, communism or socialism cannot work.
Dec 26 2012 6:28PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Are you actually that stupid by the way or are you just trolling.
Dec 26 2012 6:29PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Government may intend well but more gov always ends up being more harmful to a society
Dec 26 2012 6:32PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Socialist economies fail often? More like every time douchbag!
Dec 26 2012 6:34PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Your not as close to being as smart as you think you are you tool
Dec 26 2012 6:36PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
If I put a gun to your head, is it chill as long as I don't pull the trigger?
Dec 26 2012 6:38PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Dude you are retarded. Social mobility in the us is fantastic for anybody that isn't both retarded and lazy at the same time.
Dec 26 2012 6:42PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Your a tool
Dec 26 2012 6:45PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
youre so right. this capitalist economies are THA BOMB! havent heard of a crisis over the last few years. thousands of families havent lost their homes because banks could do whatever they wanted. hundreds of millions of people all over the world havent lost de facto buying power because this great economic system has saved us.


thank god for capitalism!
Dec 26 2012 6:46PM
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accualyisdolan
Posts: 3295 - Karma: -192
Actually competition is what drives adaptation. The fact that you think differently makes me feel you are borrowing time from Darwin you fucking retard
Dec 26 2012 6:47PM
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