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Day before election bush is still lying his fucken ass off.

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Lord_Piot
Posts: 3727 - Karma: 13
'I will defend your deepest values, and I will work every day to make sure your families are safe,' Bush told supporters.



Isnt freedom your deepest value? Somehow patriot act 1 and 2 dont seem like they defend freedom...
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Lord_Piot is only concerned about weather or not the us foreign policy will affect his ability to obtain weed or not... - anewmorning.

Word.
Nov 1 2004 6:42PM
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devine
Posts: 1720 - Karma: 10
YAHHHHH last week of bullshit like this filling non-skigrabber




member#13687


'do i look gullable to you , or even a gulla-calf?'
Nov 1 2004 6:44PM
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Lord_Piot
Posts: 3727 - Karma: 13
unless you dumb fucken americans somehow reelect bush or fail to stop him from stealing yet another election
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Lord_Piot is only concerned about weather or not the us foreign policy will affect his ability to obtain weed or not... - anewmorning.

Word.
Nov 1 2004 6:48PM
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hellmut
Posts: 1460 - Karma: 29
I always saw saddam as a dangerous man, would you agree? Is the world safer without saddam in power? Who took saddam out of power?
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Nov 1 2004 6:58PM
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highfive
Posts: 3087 - Karma: 11
He was taken out for the wrong reason. He lied that he had weapons of mass destruction and then he just changes his mind and says that he was a threat to his society. Maybe if he said that at the begginning i could trust him a bit more.
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ParkLife
Boston Jib Fest

UG Allstars
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^exactly how my school is all day its just nuts. Black girls sayin OH SNAP AND GO LAQUISHA GO LAQUISHA and latino kids goin Eh ESSAY -bhill
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Nov 1 2004 7:00PM
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hellmut
Posts: 1460 - Karma: 29
he was acting on intel, which Kerry also saw, that said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Kerry voted for the war acting on this same intel. Dont forget Iraq was developing wmds, and it was only a matter of time before iraq obtained wmds. We know that saddam has the guts to use them, or give them to a terrorist group.
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Nov 1 2004 7:18PM
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strode
Posts: 7549 - Karma: 14
george w bush is more of a terrorist than osama bin laden, he just isn't near as smart



-Strode



Only in my sweetest dreams do my streams lack troubled waters, shallow pools full of shallow fools...
Nov 1 2004 7:19PM
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wilkesyachtingco
Posts: 4425 - Karma: 41
^ not so much.















Mercy's eyes are blue
When she places them in front of you
Nothing holds a roman candle to
The solemn warmth you feel inside
Nov 1 2004 7:36PM
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Ski-hobo
Posts: 7121 - Karma: 15
your fucked in the head strode






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'i didnt really insult him, i just called him a fucken idiot' -Lateralis
Nov 1 2004 7:37PM
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strode
Posts: 7549 - Karma: 14
bush - killed more than three times as many innocent civilians than osama

osama - not caught by bush

it's pretty simple logic actually. i wasn't saying i support osama's actions.....no more than i support bush's at least



-Strode



Only in my sweetest dreams do my streams lack troubled waters, shallow pools full of shallow fools...
Nov 1 2004 7:40PM
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ATLskier
Posts: 8203 - Karma: 406
^I don't undersstand how bush is a terrorist, an even more than osama. I think tht is a bit too radical to say. Back it up with some evidence please.

Watch 'Stolen Honior' on PAX TV at 12:30 tonight to see who John Kerry really is. If you don't watch it, you are missing a very big part of what Kerry's character is.
I'm not saying anything else. I have a migraine, and I'm tired.
Nov 1 2004 7:41PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Well... there's the whole ruling by fear, and the primacy of religious values, and the agressive 'destruction of our enemies, as we call everyone we don't like', and the restrictions on civil liberties... but hey, bush has other policies... like his energy policy. There's nothing theocratic or terrorist-oriented about his energy policy. Oligarchical, maybe, but that's another story.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Nov 1 2004 7:43PM
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three60mute
Posts: 470 - Karma: 10
Piot, I am so fucking tired of your shit.
First one on the lift, last one off.

Bush-Cheney '04

NS Idiot of the Week: benditto
Nov 1 2004 7:50PM
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dashboardvegeta
Posts: 131 - Karma: 10
strode, plz show me where he has killed 3x as many iraqis as osama has killed americans. lord piot, honestly, what are you talking about? you might be one of the most ignorant ppl ive ever read, so when you use the term dumb fkn americans, just say we plz.
Nov 1 2004 7:57PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
^Confirmed Iraqi civilian casualties exceed 10,000, but the number is probably more than twice that (Conservative estimate, some have placed it much higher). Civilians killed on 9/11: 3000. But what Strode fails to mention is that those three thousand are infinitely more important, because they're American, and American lives are worth more.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Nov 1 2004 7:59PM
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dashboardvegeta
Posts: 131 - Karma: 10
oh im sry, you are from canada, so your opinion doesnt really count for anything tmw, so you can disregard some of that
Nov 1 2004 8:00PM
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dashboardvegeta
Posts: 131 - Karma: 10
did that source say by any chance if all those deaths were the result of american gunfire or hostilities by any chance? i bet it doesnt, link me to your source plz?
Nov 1 2004 8:02PM
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hellmut
Posts: 1460 - Karma: 29
can someone tell me how taking out a brutal dictator does not improve the civil liberties in Iraq?
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Nov 1 2004 8:34PM
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ScratchCobra66
Posts: 3688 - Karma: 11
Awwe, Lord Piot is upset because the communist party in america did not make any ballots this year.




I rock the Shermenator steeze.
Nov 1 2004 8:45PM
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General_Shredgnar
Posts: 3024 - Karma: 34
Im guessing bush is thinking, what the fuck, half the poeple are dooshbags whose voting for me anyway, if I lie they wont care, itll solidify my votes before the ignorant society realizes I lied, and by that time, its far too late
C-Man
Nov 1 2004 8:51PM
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brogilvie
Posts: 2607 - Karma: 123
Go to www.jibjab.com and watch 'this land', i laughed so hard. Its right on the homepage, so if you miss it you are a dumbass.

do the chickens have large talons?
Nov 1 2004 8:52PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Wow... are you actually dumb enough not to know the casualty count, and still talk about this war? I thought I was kidding, but apparently you actually DON'T have any regard for Iraqi lives... By US GOVERNMENT REPORTS, war-related civilian casualties exceeded 10,000 when the war was declared 'over' (that whole thing with bush in the flightsuit on the aircraft carrier and the 'Mission Accomplished' banner). Good enough? The number can only have increased since then (unless you'd like to allege that people can come back from the dead). God, you're dense... yeah, I'm clearly not worth listening to because there's a border separating me from the states on a map, which immediately cuts me off from any ability to comprehend your politics. Waste of time, much...

Hellmut: in theory, you're right, but owing to the current levels of violence in Iraq (and the insurgents aren't exactly about to back down), Iraqi liberty is a bit constrained at the moment by practical issues, like guys with weapons shooting at them. Kinda curbs the quality of life. Maybe ten years down the road, once stability is achieved, your point will achieve its potential.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Nov 1 2004 8:52PM
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Flying_FIsH
Posts: 141 - Karma: 10
are you really going to vote for....bush???






D-STRUCTURE international....Quebec is invading the world watch out kid
Nov 1 2004 8:53PM
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fourdskate
Posts: 1119 - Karma: 10
dude sadaam is a threat, i'll agree to that, but not NEARLY as bad as other countries. like North Korea. iraq was assumed to have weapons of mass destruction that we haven't found yet, while north korea does have them, has admitted to it, and have an active nuclear program. if someone can tell me a legitimate reason why the hell a little country like that need nukes for, i'll stand corrected.
I'm going back into my kitchen and continue to make out with fruit.-ice-is-scary

'i would love to be a engineer workin on the new 'high power' 6 liter toilets. i wonder if they get 300 pound guys to drop massive logs and see if they flush.'-4D (Chris)

'I would do it, but i threw my back out humpin your mom last night, nooch'-Jason Mewes
Nov 1 2004 8:56PM
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hellmut
Posts: 1460 - Karma: 29
I am still recovering from the shock after JD agreed with something I said. I think I am going to cry.
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Nov 1 2004 8:58PM
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Almost
Posts: 417 - Karma: 10
Don't bring up your idiotic ideas about making the world safer by getting rid of saddam. Saddam was undoubtably a threat to security but the puppet government in place now in Iraq will not last, the result will be an islamic government that will in all likelyhood make a more agressive stand against America than Saddam ever could. The people of Iraq wanted rid of Saddam, but they don't want American rule in its place, and sooner or later you will leave them. The likely conclusion is a government akin to that of Iran with a more unified position with other middle eastern countries against the United States. In short getting rid of Saddam was good, a United States Occupation was the worst possible way to do it and will only cause further destabilization of the entire middle east and cause America to be less safe. Whether from the left or the right, everyone lost in the American invasion of Iraq and if Bush is re-elected only more will die, and more will suffer, on all sides.
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Let's do it for Tommy!
CCF to Victory
Nov 1 2004 9:01PM
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dashboardvegeta
Posts: 131 - Karma: 10
im still trying to figure out why you are attacking bush on this. he acted on intelligence to that was given to him......given to him. if you want to attack some one, go after franks or tenet, for the ppl who dont know them, those are/were prolly the two highest figureheads for military decisions and intelligence in the middle east
Nov 1 2004 9:06PM
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hellmut
Posts: 1460 - Karma: 29
so you think it would have been better if we left saddam in power? Just doesnt make sense to me. Does anyone else here think that if we left saddam alone he would have eventually developed wmds?
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Nov 1 2004 9:06PM
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TheSiverSessions
Posts: 51 - Karma: 10
Well i sure hope you dont have ur heart set on kerry Raising the Minimum wage to $7 an hour
Nov 1 2004 9:07PM
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-=koLLac=-
Posts: 4122 - Karma: 11
Saddam was as big of a threat as Vaclav Klaus the president of Czech Republic. Does anyone know Klaus? No? Maybe becasue he wasn't demonized in your media...




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EUROPE KICKS ASS
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^hahaha ONE of the ONLY ahahaha lmao
Nov 1 2004 9:08PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
I think when people say 'Bush', they mean both him and his administration. Basically, the president bears responsibility for any action taken by his government while he's in office. I thought this would have been obvious, Bush has, himself, said as much.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Nov 1 2004 9:09PM
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Almost
Posts: 417 - Karma: 10
I disagreed with Americas attack on Iraq, that is what I believe, not Saddam would be better off in power. But if you think you're safer now because he's gone, you are dead wrong
________________________________________
Let's do it for Tommy!
CCF to Victory
Nov 1 2004 9:12PM
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dashboardvegeta
Posts: 131 - Karma: 10
as far as killing civilians... its common knowledge that they kept no active records of active military personel and that the members of the milita hid inside of civilian homes and dressed as cilvilians. so i ask you, how is a soldier supposed to tell the difference b/n a civilian and a soldier, and how can the media sopport those numbers. furthermore, you still havent answered the question of how many of those deaths are from american hands.
Nov 1 2004 9:15PM
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dashboardvegeta
Posts: 131 - Karma: 10
he may accept responsibility, but that does not put the blame solely on his shoulders. to do so is ignorant and wrong. and if he is solely responsible, why isnt tenet still running around?
Nov 1 2004 9:17PM
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Flying_FIsH
Posts: 141 - Karma: 10
yeah maybe saddam would have developped some wmds in the future but north korea has some right now why aren't they attacking north korea??Ho yeah theres no oil in north korea..right?? Well i'm not bush but i think thats a good reason not to attack north korea...






D-STRUCTURE international....Quebec is invading the world watch out kid
Nov 1 2004 9:18PM
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switchskier88
Posts: 2829 - Karma: 12
you can talk about how taking saddamn out of power and how it helped so many iraqis and all that wonderfull human rights stuff but its still a bunch of bullshit, i mean lets see theres sudan in africa whos under a pretty harsh dictatorship, and then there's somalia which is run by warlord who who have just as long of a list of war crimes as saddam, im to lazy to add more nations to the list of places under a rule such as saddamn's but the point is i dont see us rushing to their help. oh yah but then there's afghanistan who we freed from the taliban right? yah but did half of us know or care about the taliban untill 9/11. Im not saying our country should not have defended itself, but your blind if you beleive that this was about helping out an oppressed nation
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Pat
Nov 1 2004 9:20PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Again. Not media. Government report. Understand? Bush Admin numbers, here. Media doesn't need to support anything. Secondly, the majority of those casualties are results of air strikes and similar 'large impact' strike weapons, which have cause homes to collapse, resulting in the deaths. Next, how much of this blood is on American hands? All of it. If there was no war, these casualties would not have happened as a result of war. See the nice logic chain there? The responsibility for deaths in the Iraq war belongs to the administration which entered into it. The head of that admin bears responsibility for its actions. If it's ignorant to blame the president for actions his administration has taken, then I guess he's ignorant (how shocking), because as I've pointed out, he's said on several occasions that he's ultimately responsible for these actions, because he has the final word.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Nov 1 2004 9:24PM
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hellmut
Posts: 1460 - Karma: 29
can someone explain to me how saddam being out of power some how makes me less safe. I always thought of saddam as a military dictator type, not a peace loving leader of a free nation, maybe I am wrong.
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Nov 1 2004 9:25PM
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Almost
Posts: 417 - Karma: 10
Because the government that will follow Saddam, not including the U.S. puppet government they have now, will be an Islamic government akin to that of Iran by all accounts. The people of Iraq overwhelmingly want that, not the United States in their future. This new government will be more resolute against America with neighbouring states now supporting it not treating it as an enemy any longer
________________________________________
Let's do it for Tommy!
CCF to Victory
Nov 1 2004 9:29PM
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switchskier88
Posts: 2829 - Karma: 12
your not wrong but the point is that there's about easily 10 more dictators who have commited war crimes that are just as horrible and we don't do anything about it (im not saying whether we should or shouldnt). As cliched as it sounds look at Kim Jong in Korea, he pretty much is flaunting the fact that he has working nukes and we just try to silently pay him to dismantle the program. Yet its a big fucken deal that at one time Iraq may have possibly been trying to get uranium to then attempt to develop a nuke.
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Pat
Nov 1 2004 9:30PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Hellmut, The argument goes as follows (and this will be my last post in here because I've said all of this before and I'm getting bored). Saddam's removal has created a greater haven for terrorists, again, according to admissions by the defense department, which concedes that Iraq as it is (power vaccuum) is more conducive to the formation and growth of terrorist groups. Secondly, once the US leaves, the nation will most likely immediately elect a fundamentalist regime, as exists in Iran. This is not a safer government than Saddam was, at all. So that would be why it might not have been a particularly productive war. Only time will tell, of course, as this is only one theory, but it seems like the most likely outcome.

------------
In a haze
A stormy haze
I’ll be around
I’ll be loving you
Always
Always

Here I am
And I’ll take my time
Here I am
And I’ll wait in line
Always
Always...
Nov 1 2004 9:30PM
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strode
Posts: 7549 - Karma: 14
if canadapridecc is right, then bush really IS smarter than i thought



-Strode



Only in my sweetest dreams do my streams lack troubled waters, shallow pools full of shallow fools...
Nov 1 2004 9:34PM
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hellmut
Posts: 1460 - Karma: 29
Everyone here is so pessimistic. As you said, that outcome is only a possiblity. I have faith in our men over there and I have faith in democracy. However, it takes time people, it will not happen over night.
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Nov 1 2004 9:42PM
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switchskier88
Posts: 2829 - Karma: 12
yah something that our government doesnt seem to realize, how long did it take our democracy to evolve into what it is today, over 200 years. But we tried to hold elections what? 1 year after we ousted the dictatorship. These things do take time, but by time i mean years maybe centuries you cant force people that hate us and each other to think that all of a sudden everyone is equal and that everything they have believed and known is false. It just wont work
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Pat
Nov 1 2004 9:46PM
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Almost
Posts: 417 - Karma: 10
Democracy is what we're tlaking about man, a full blown universal suffrage democracy in Iraq would bring out the entire population to VOTE for an Islamic regime. It would come about democratically, faith in democracy has nothing to do with it. I am not pessimistic, I am following a clear path from history where America creates its own enemies by stomping around where it doesn't belong, nor is wanted
________________________________________
Let's do it for Tommy!
CCF to Victory
Nov 1 2004 9:54PM
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hellmut
Posts: 1460 - Karma: 29
what do you think would happen if we pulled out now?
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Nov 1 2004 9:56PM
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Almost
Posts: 417 - Karma: 10
the same thing essentially that will happen if you stay. nothing the united states can do now will shift public opinion in Iraq in their favor. if you pull out now, thousands will die and most likely a dictatorial islamic regime will come to fruition. If you stay most likely nothing will change, more bombings more death, until public opinion dies in america and you pull out years from now, with the same result. There is no war left to win,
________________________________________
Let's do it for Tommy!
CCF to Victory
Nov 1 2004 10:02PM
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m1garand
Posts: 3343 - Karma: 15
I agree with helmut in that you can't expect something overnight. 'Revolution' does not come about easily. Take Japan for example. Look at how much of a god awful shitty mess they were in, and then look at them now. As far as the Islam community is concerned, I think that they would just want a peaceful environment so they can go about their business worshiping 'Allah'. It's just all the lunatic terrorists that use Islam as an excuse to kill people and wreak havic. I really think that all this negativity from you anti-American fascists is going to just hurt us in the long run. Get behind the troops and support what we are trying to do. You can't hide from terrorism, it isn't going to disappear (much to the Frenchies' disappointment). Iraq will become a major partner in fightning terrorism once all the insurgents are weeded out.

'Have a little faith baby'



Ezekiel 25:17
Nov 1 2004 10:07PM
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switchskier88
Posts: 2829 - Karma: 12
^exactly, we cant change the people that live there and inevitably we will probably pull out. Vietnam is a similar example we tried to change it with a half ass military effort similar to in iraq it didnt work and after enough people had died about a decade and a half later we pulled out with out having accomplished anything
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Pat
Nov 1 2004 10:08PM
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hellmut
Posts: 1460 - Karma: 29
so thousands will die and there is no hope around an islamic dictatorship, real optimistic. When you say we are basicly screwed no matter how you look at it, well, that is the definition of looking at the glass half empty
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Nov 1 2004 10:08PM
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m1garand
Posts: 3343 - Karma: 15
The reason I say get behind the troops and support the effort is because what is happening now is looking more and more similar to Vietnam every day. The reason why Vietnam was so unsuccessful was because of the anti-war movement and protesting (thank you Mr. Kerry). And yes, John Kerry is one of the number one reasons why POWs in N. Vietnam were tortured, and yes, this is one of the number one reasons why I could not possibly begin to consider him for my vote.



Ezekiel 25:17
Nov 1 2004 10:13PM
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