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Right to bear arms?

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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
remember, when this amendment was written, everybody had a single shot, 6 foot long rifle that took a minute to reload.

that amendment would never be re-written today with the guns we have now.

it's a stupid law, and nobody should have guns but soldiers and officers of the law.

end of story.
Dec 14 2012 4:29PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
wrong, its huge. globally its a pretty big chunk of the black market. and yeah it is easier, why is it easier?you dont have to any ID, you dont have to apply for a license, no training, all you have to do is download a TOR processor any go find it somewhere along with all the hitmen and the disturbing designer drugs you can find on that level of the net.
Dec 15 2012 11:02AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
but dont you think we should at least try and make it harder for those people who don't just want a gun for self defense to get them?
Dec 15 2012 11:03AM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,181
You're probably right. But oh well, I needed to say it.
Dec 15 2012 11:03AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
yes, but, again, you still have to find the people with the connections to the black market to get the guns from. and i'm not wrong. there definitely aren't more guns sold illegally than legally in the country.
Dec 15 2012 11:05AM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
you would be surprised.

and no its not that hard to find someone with that kind of connections, you have cash you can get gun.
Dec 15 2012 11:06AM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,181
I see what you're saying but it's so hard to regulate people who want guns for self defense or for let's say hunting. It's not like law enforcement can go out to see who's all using their guns for defense and who bought them for defense but is using them for hunting.
Dec 15 2012 11:07AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
yes but you can make GETTING a gun in the first place more difficult. run background checks on people, psychiatric examinations, etc.
Dec 15 2012 11:10AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
again, how do you know these things. you keep saying it, but do you have any proof at all or are you just assuming? i would like to see a source saying more guns are sold illegally than legally and not just you saying "you'd be surprised"
Dec 15 2012 11:11AM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
there's no defense in owning an automatic weapon. not to mention, a sword was all you had as defense a couple thousand years ago. a rifle was all you had for defense 200 years ago. today we have technology. we have alarm systems, we have law enforcement. even just 130 years ago, back in the old west, it was common to have weapons settle disputes, and im sure the death rate was insanely high. we live in a very different, civilized world today. you dont just run up to somebody and call them a witch and have the burned at the stake with no judge or jury, you don't just shoot someone dead because they spilled a glass of brandy on your new boots.

rules are meant to change, especially when they're now causing more harm than good. im sure if jesus were around today, he would agree.

case closed.
Dec 15 2012 11:11AM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
im a computer nerd, i know things that you probably don't know even exists. also schooling, (i go to military school) my ARMY instructor teaches us all about this stuff.
Dec 15 2012 11:13AM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,181
Well they already do background checks for every firearms purchase at a certified FFL dealer.

Psychiatric examinations may help, but where are you going to get people to do that with the qualifications for every firearms purchase all over the country?
Dec 15 2012 11:14AM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,348
unless the feds confiscated all privately owned firearms than yea, there would be just as many guns in the hands of citizens.

ban em all you want, no way in hell anyone is taking any of my 6 guns away. shit, i might support a ban. I would stock up on AMD65s and flip em for huge profit once they became illegal.

Guns arent going away so why even bother talking about it?
Dec 15 2012 11:14AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
just have fewer places to purchase. i dont know how they would do it, but just because it would be difficult doesn't mean they shouldn't do it. its unacceptable that the guy in the aurora shooting was able to legally buy those guns for himself and that this kid was able to use the guns his mom legally owned. like everyone has been saying, there will always be an illegal market and its just a risk we have to take, but things like this should never happen with legally owned guns.
Dec 15 2012 11:18AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
so then show us the sources with the numbers.
Dec 15 2012 11:20AM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
haha you actually think i bother to buy one of these, no. i buy my guns legally, im just more or less curious about this kind of stuff, and no I'm not going to go get illegal gun listings on my macintosh.
Dec 15 2012 11:23AM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,181
Alarm systems help and all but the thing is time. Law enforcement can't just be at your house instantly if someone broke in and is about to shoot you.

Having a weapon for defense is just added security for yourself and family. And it's right there in your house to be quickly grabbed and to be used to give your family and yourself a chance before police arrive.
Dec 15 2012 11:26AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
no i dont think you buy guns ilegally. when did i say anything even close to that? i mean the sources saying that more guns are sold illegally than legally.
Dec 15 2012 11:30AM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
yeah, so someone was in a car accident and was bleeding internally and barges into your home seeking help, what do you do, shoot them?

guns are for fucking retards who need to hide behind an easy killing machine. there are too many other, more appropriate deterrents for crime, methods of keeping yourself safe. you dont need a fucking gun.

and the american mindset that people are OUT TO GET YOU!! is fucking cowardly and pathetic. i feel pretty safe myself. if someone really wants to kill me, im sure they could, regardless of whether or not i have a gun for "protection". and if some idiot crackhead busts into my home looking to do god knows what, i feel pretty safe knowing the other tools i have and that im not an idiot and can do something about it. i dont need a gun. nobody needs a gun. you want one because you're a fucking pussy. and because youre the US is a nation of pussies, they need their guns, and innocent children have to die so the fucking pussies can keep on hunting and sleeping with their guns under their pillows because they're afraid bad guys want to hurt them.

what a joke.
Dec 15 2012 11:32AM
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BlackCupid
Posts: 1533 - Karma: 9
Haven't we already made this exact same thread like a 1000 times before?

Hey guys do you know of any colleges that are good for skiing?
Dec 15 2012 11:36AM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
the terrorizers are coming to terrorize me ahhhhh give me more guns so i can be safe!


meanwhile those guns are doing more to kill innocent people than they are what everyone claims they do in "protecting" you.



how many thousands of people die accidentally or by violent crime thanks to guns. how many dozens of people protect themselves and thwart criminals master plans of raping you in your sleep? is it really worth it?


one person saved by gun at the cost of hundreds dying.

> guns are used for protection!
> guns are good!

great rationale.

the rest of the world thinks you guys are totally nuts. and you really are.
Dec 15 2012 11:37AM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,181
Are you kidding me. Who in their right mind is going to shoot someone asking for help. What a stupid attempt at arguing.

And I bet the people Aurora, Columbine, and this past shooting didn't think people were out to get them. They probably felt safe, but then look what happened.
Dec 15 2012 11:38AM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
come back when a big scary black men comes and gay rapes you and tell me if you wish you had more than your fists.
Dec 15 2012 11:39AM
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I_liketobutter
Posts: 2664 - Karma: 997
This is all that needs to be said. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to use some common sense. Gang violence is another story, but as far as random mass shootings, the rational above is correct.

Not to bring weed into it, because its not apples to apples, but you're definitely more likely to smoke if its easy to get access. Are some people still going to jump through hoops to get it? sure, but its the difficulty of access that keeps a lot of people away. btw, I don't smoke anymore but am pro-legalization.

And Switzerland is a absolutely terrible example to bring up. Switzerland has been the most peaceful country in the world through history. They don't really pick sides and don't engage in wars. This peacefulness is ingrained in their culture and that's why its different.
Dec 15 2012 11:39AM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
just face it. guns are used for more bad than good. great, a few people responsibly protect themselves with guns. but at what cost. hundreds of innocent lives?

find a new way to protect yourself with tools that cant just as easily and more often be used for bad.
Dec 15 2012 11:43AM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,348
Maybe you should just face it. This is how america works and nothing is going to change. You can either deal with it or keep crying like a baby over the internet. Guns arent going anywhere.
Dec 15 2012 11:46AM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,181
So your saying there's more people using guns for bad in this country than the 65 million people who own them and use them appropriately?
Dec 15 2012 11:48AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
the entirety of this argument is

"bad things are going to happen, so why bother trying to limit or reduce the chances?"
Dec 15 2012 11:48AM
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Black-Bandanna
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 1,603
Guns are used every day across the nation. If they were used more for bad than good, the situation would be a shitstorm of shootings every day. Hyperbole has it's uses, but not in such a manner.

The answer is that there is no one easy answer to such a complicated problem.


This thread needs a little bit of Joe Cocker:


Dec 15 2012 11:53AM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
pretty much
Dec 15 2012 12:05PM
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Pancake_Fucker
Posts: 1852 - Karma: 1,987
Quit pms'ing. Gun control laws fucking work for majority of people. And comparing weed laws to guns? People smoke weed because it isn't harming anyone else and it doesn't kill people. Guns were designed for the sole purpose of killing. You're saying that it is completely acceptable that this man that killed young children should've been on possession of an assault rifle? They work fine in Europe, and Canada. Canada is not much different than the states. Other than the fact that we don't keep guns in our house cause we aren't a nation taught by the government to live in fear. Trust me, your suburban home isn't going to be robbed at gunpoint while your mommy cooks your dinner. Grow up and get with the times.
Dec 15 2012 12:13PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,348
Not more than 6 months ago a house like 1/4 of a mile from my moms was robbed at gunpoint and the father, mother and daughter in the house were murdered. How about lets not make sweeping assumptions and take them for fact.
Dec 15 2012 12:18PM
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Pancake_Fucker
Posts: 1852 - Karma: 1,987
It isn't even legal to hunt with an at-15... Pretty obvious that someone with an ar-15 isn't hunting.
Dec 15 2012 12:19PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,181
Im chuckling as I honestly never know where you stand on a subject when threads like this occur.
Dec 15 2012 12:20PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,348
yes they are. Its all about magazine capacity. Same reason why i have to put a magazine tube plug in my shotgun to go bird hunting. dont spread false information

Dec 15 2012 12:22PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
meh. i like gunz their cool and they make loud noises and blow things up.
Dec 15 2012 12:22PM
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Oldmann1584
Posts: 1399 - Karma: 95
these arent my words but i certainly agree with them

"I am British and we have much tighter gun laws but then we always have. The major issue I think is that access to guns is such a deep rooted one in the USA. We have never had free access to guns in the way the States does so banning guns hasn't been so problematic. As the pp said, what happens to all the guns out there when you ban them? Personally I think the guns thing in the states is crazy, there is no reason someone needs or should have the right to have access to a gun that can fire 100 rounds per second or whatever it was. The right to bear arms amendment was created in a time of lawlessness, it refers to the right for citizens to form militia to protect their communities, not for individuals to hold personal arsenals of sub-machines guns and armour piercing billets. This is the second shooting in the states I've heard if in a week, if that happened here we would be outraged yet its becoming so common in the USA and I'm sure these two cases were only 2 of many. Banning guns isn't the only solution, changing many Americans attitudes to them and their "rights" on access to them is vital. Yes, we have a knife crime problem here in the UK but you can kill far less people in 2 minutes with a knife than with a gun, your argument doesn't hold water, you would prefer to to continue having situations like yesterday than trying to do something about it? This is the problem with guns in America, the emotive arguments for and against mean it will never be resolved. Ok, I'll get off my soap box, I hope I didn't cause offence, just my humble opinion."
Dec 15 2012 12:23PM
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Pancake_Fucker
Posts: 1852 - Karma: 1,987
You're right. I'm sorry. It just won't happen to me because I live in Canada, because we don't have an old outdated document saying I have a right to bare arms. But you're probably right about that too, gun regulations probably dont have anything to do with our substantially lower gun crimes...
Dec 15 2012 12:23PM
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Peter.
Posts: 23796 - Karma: 13,014
Click for larger image
Dec 15 2012 12:23PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,181
Being from Canada you obviously don't know our hunting laws, but ar-15s are legal to hunt with in the US.
Dec 15 2012 12:24PM
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Pancake_Fucker
Posts: 1852 - Karma: 1,987
You're telling me you know people that hunt with assault rifles? That's fucking retarded and not legal at all.
Dec 15 2012 12:26PM
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jet_
Posts: 89 - Karma: 131
I'm jumping into this thread without much context, but here's how I feel:

Repealing a right to bear arms probably isn't going to stop mass murderers like the two douchebags we heard about yesterday. I wish there was an easy way to stop this from happening, but if someone is already fucked up enough to murder a large group of strangers, what's going to stop them from illegally buying a gun?

Regardless, I do think there should be far stricter laws when it comes to semi-automatic weapons. There's no reason for a civilian to own one of those. If you're that concerned about self-defense, just use a hunting rifle.
Dec 15 2012 12:26PM
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RimJobber
Posts: 3313 - Karma: 10,058
I have an ar-15, it's fun as hell to go into the desert and shoot it, a beast for taking down coyotes, and it would straight up fuck someone up if they came in my house.
Dec 15 2012 12:28PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,348
somone is awfully sensitive and just looking for an arguement.

you said home invasion murders dont happen which is a flat out lie. Rather than admit you were wrong like a grown up and leave it at that you comeback and take a stab at me about something i didnt say. sweet arguing bro.
Dec 15 2012 12:29PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
nope it is, i took down a bear in colorado with one. he tasted good i didnt even cook him just dove in.
Dec 15 2012 12:31PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,348
yes it is. Ive shot a white tail deer with an SKS. An SKS is an AK, more or less, with a fixed mag( the majority of them at least).

its very legal. Stop talkin out of your ass
Dec 15 2012 12:31PM
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Pancake_Fucker
Posts: 1852 - Karma: 1,987
The bullet isn't considered large enough to humanely kill a deer. Because it was designed to kill people. Honestly man how can you people deny that having stricter gun laws will help? There is no excuse to own an assault rifle for self defense. Or hunting.
Dec 15 2012 12:32PM
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the-honeypossum
Posts: 529 - Karma: 130

if someone plans on doing something illegal with a gun im sure they can get a gun easly illegally wether they are legal or not. idiots

Dec 15 2012 12:35PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,348
just stop. You can continue to talk about gun laws but you know nothing about the weapons or ammunition themselves. dont pretend like you do.

i could kill a deer with a 22

Dec 15 2012 12:35PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
yeah. it seems like having the right to bear arms as an amendment was a mistake. for whatever reason, americans loves shooting guns way more citizens of any other country in the world. i wouldnt be surprised if it goes back to it being a second amendment right.
Dec 15 2012 12:36PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
but, no one gets that.
Dec 15 2012 12:37PM
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