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December, 2024

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Right to bear arms?

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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
remember, when this amendment was written, everybody had a single shot, 6 foot long rifle that took a minute to reload.

that amendment would never be re-written today with the guns we have now.

it's a stupid law, and nobody should have guns but soldiers and officers of the law.

end of story.
Dec 14 2012 4:29PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
your opinion is ridiculous, and so is your lack of knowledge.
Dec 16 2012 1:46PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
.
Dec 16 2012 1:46PM
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joshua
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 1,280
Go ahead and explain to me ANYONE short of law enforcement needs an assault rifle.

Here is Canada, its a pain in the neck to even get a long-gun registered for hunting. Everyone always complains about it, but judging by the amount of horrible tragedies involving guns in the U.S., its probably for the better.
Dec 16 2012 1:53PM
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joshua
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 1,280
Haha, typing too fast.
Dec 16 2012 1:54PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
^ why for sport, targets and stuff, yes if you use an assault rifle for hunting you suck at life, but i love my assault rifles for skeet shot and clay pigeons.
Dec 16 2012 1:55PM
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joshua
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 1,280
Like honestly, reading the posts between Anemetha and you guys, makes me really think there is a fundamental cultural flaw in the U.S..

You don't need guns, get over yourself. You will probably come in here and say "Oh but what if someone breaks into my house and tries to hurt me."

1. That rarely happens
2. If someone comes into your house while you are asleep armed and ready to hurt you, chances are you are screwed anyway, gun or not.
3. Countries with heavy gun control are doing just fine.
4. A LOT of people from these crazy guns that you can get in the states way too easy. NO ONE should be allowed to buy an automatic weapon.
Dec 16 2012 1:59PM
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joshua
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 1,280
Tough luck buddy, twenty kids died a few days ago, time to find a new hobby.
Dec 16 2012 2:00PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
yeah we know, its called the crypts and bloods.
Dec 16 2012 2:01PM
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joshua
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 1,280
What? I'm talking about how you all have this bizarre and strange obsession with guns, and you are willing to put lives on the line to continue with it.
Dec 16 2012 2:06PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
I need one, i use mine for target and hunting, it has a pistol style grip so now its a big scary "assult"rifle. its semi auto just like many hunting rifles, but it looks a little more scary and has some black stuff on it so now the media can call it an assult rifle so uneducated people will think im carrying around a full auto killing machine.

like i said in the other thread, Canada is a horrible comparison to the US, 80+% of our gun crime comes from gangs/career criminals/felons. leaving around 2000 deaths related to normal guy gets pissed off homicide. thats 2000 out of 310 million, really not a bad number for a bunch of gun loving rednecks.

you dont have 1.4 million gang members belonging to 30+ thousand gangs, you dont have violent drug trade like we do. we have more gang members than a lot of the gang/crime ridden south american countries combined. unfortunately Mexico and lots of areas in south america are a better comparison because like them, most of our gun deaths come from gangs/organized crime. and guess what? mexico and most of these south american countries have very overly strict gun control laws, yet a very high amount of gun related death.

chicago, california, DC have the strictest gun laws in the nation, yet have the highest numbers of gun death. (california is concentrated in certain areas full of guess what? gangs.) do you think these gangs/career criminals/felons are going into gun stores and legally buying traceable guns and filling out background checks? fuck no.

its not the people like me and billy bob in texas shootin cans in his back yard with "assult" rifle pure blood thirsty killing machines.
Dec 16 2012 2:11PM
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Pee_and_Ski
Posts: 1869 - Karma: 57
<img>http://www.google.com/imgres?q=grateful+dead+bear+with+gun&um=1&hl=en&tbo=d&biw=1280&bih=899&tbm=isch&tbnid=gKIbrqr8-nXKhM:&imgrefurl=http://www.firstroundbust.com/2011_12_01_archive.html&docid=mBFap0tsg40LVM&imgurl=http://spacereptilesareyourfriend.com/images/bear-riding-a-shark.jpg&w=600&h=665&ei=ZxzOUO3LFqjy0wHcrIH4BA&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=430&sig=117748868299062437551&page=2&tbnh=151&tbnw=136&start=39&ndsp=49&ved=1t:429,r:39,s:0,i:208&tx=49&ty=40</img>
Dec 16 2012 2:13PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
1. whether or not it rarely happens, thats not why i have my guns
2. im thinking a gun could be quite helpful
3. SOME, countries with heavy gun control are doing fine, others are quite the opposite..
4. could you please tell me how many legally acquired and owned automatic weapons are used in murders per year? do you know what you have to go through to acquire an automatic weapon?
Dec 16 2012 2:17PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
tough luck man, 30,000 people died last year in car accidents, time to ride a bike.
Dec 16 2012 2:18PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,181
Yeah, it's not like anyone can go out an buy a fully auto firearm. It costs tens of thousands in training, permits, and the firearm itself. Not to mention extensive background checks, interview with sheriff and that fully auto firearms are only allowed on gun ranges that are licensed to have fully auto firearms.
Dec 16 2012 2:22PM
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flux-capacitor
Posts: 317 - Karma: 42
Your argument is invalid. You cant compare the safety of two completely different types of machines. Cars accidentally kill thousands of people every year with hardly any intent on the collision while guns are used to kill thousands of people every year, but there are less accidental fire arm fatalities. Thats like comparing cancer and accidents in the work place. People still die of both...
Dec 16 2012 2:36PM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11955 - Karma: 12,302
Right? 75,000 people died last year from alcohol, time to start drinking water!

Whether guns were legal to own or not he either:

A. would have found a way to acquire them

B. Found some other way to do what he did.


It wasn't the gun that committed this crime, it was the person. You are looking in the wrong fucking place.
Dec 16 2012 2:37PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
the 64 million law abiding gun owners dont own their guns with the intent of killing people. either way 30,000 people die each year, why dies it matter what the intent is? do you NEED to drive a car when you can ride a bike or get a job closer to home? cars are the most dangerous machine americans use.
Dec 16 2012 2:39PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
this and the vast majority of people that use their guns to kill people are not acquiring them legally in the first place. guns in the hands of normal citizens is not the problem. they account for a small fraction of gun related deaths.
Dec 16 2012 2:41PM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11955 - Karma: 12,302
yes. So strictly regulating them or banning them isn't going to do anything but punish the people that actually know how to use the guns, acquire them legally, and responsibly respect the power of a firearm. Half the kids arguing for getting rid of citizen owned firearms AREN'T EVEN FROM THIS COUNTRY. They don't know shit. They are drawing on the studies that actually worked but ignoring all the failed gun related policies.
Dec 16 2012 2:45PM
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flux-capacitor
Posts: 317 - Karma: 42
Do you NEED to own a gun incase a man/woman wonders into your house when a police station is just round the corner? No, you don't. If were getting into retarded statists then your more likely to shoot someone if you own a gun than if you don't own a gun. but thats just statistics.
Dec 16 2012 2:47PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,181
What? Most people don't live with a police station around the corner. A gun gives a person a chance to protect their family and themselves before police arrive.
Dec 16 2012 2:54PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
thats a completely valid argument, your saying wahhh wahhh people get shot by guns we cant have guns anymore. its the exact same thing.
Dec 16 2012 2:54PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
yeah the "do you NEED" argument is fucking retarded, i dont need a car, or a gun, or to ski, or mountain bike, or hunt, or drink, etc...but i do because life isnt perfectly safe and i do and use things that are potentially dangerous. regardless of how many deaths driving, guns, alcohol, knives, etc.. are a part of each year i really dont give a shit, my gun is purely used for sport, my car, for transportation and gittin sideways. alcohol, though i hardly drink, because im thirsty. i dont intend to hurt people with any of these things but humans make mistakes and the tools we use for fun/convenience are inherently dangerous and its worth the risk of my and others lives to not have the government attempt (fail to) to restrict and regulate the risk, danger, and human error out of every part of our lives. if you cant live with the risks associated with living, then kill yourself.

and i dont own a gun for self protection, i shoot targets and hunt. criminals use their guns for harming others, i dont. so dont let them legally acquire guns. oh wait... they criminals dont give a fuck.
Dec 16 2012 2:55PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
even though i could care less about having a gun for self protection, this is very true, relying on the cops to take 10 minutes to come to your house is not a very good form of self protection. i dont know what people have against having some self responsibility.

speaking of home protection. my guns are used for target/hunting, my knives are used for chopping up food. neither of which i own with any intent on harming another human being, but both tools would/could become tools to defend myself if someone broke in. the gun happens to be much more effective, soooo.. i dont see the problem.
Dec 16 2012 2:59PM
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Charlie_Kelly
Posts: 11955 - Karma: 12,302
Well said.
Dec 16 2012 3:04PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
exactly, i dont know why you guys cant get this through your thick skulls.
Dec 16 2012 3:07PM
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Oldmann1584
Posts: 1399 - Karma: 95
do you hunt with a automatic rifles? theres nothing wrong with hunting man except for the fact that there is absolutely NO reason to own AUTOMATIC RIFLES.

"humans make mistakes"
seriously? you got to be fucking kidding me, when the guy went into the school a few days ago, or even in oregon less than a week you think it was a mistake?

man i think most people have no problem with gun ownership, but its not like you even hunt with some of these weapons so why can't THOSE weapons be controlled, you don't need a weapon that can fire 30 or however many rounds per second because literally the only reason someone would want that is for self defence.
Dec 16 2012 3:13PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
so you think we should go out, find all the criminals, and give them guns because they will just get them illegally anyways?
Dec 16 2012 3:15PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
it depends on how you define "dangerous." you don't hurt/kill someone every time you drive. every time you shoot a person/animal you are going to kill or injure it.
Dec 16 2012 3:21PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,181
Why would you even come to that assumption? There's nothing we can do to keep criminals from getting firearms. So why take away peoples rights who want them for legal purposes when those who want a gun for illegal will get them anyway.
Dec 16 2012 3:22PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
wow, some of you are making it really hard for me not to be a huge dick, but ill try to avoid that.

would you please tell me how many legally acquired and owned fully automatic weapons are used in murders per year? do you know what you have to do to acquire an automatic weapon or how much it costs? do you have any idea what "assult" rifle means?

i know the media likes to throw this word around to make it sound like everyone with an assult rifle is running around with some rambo style fully auto drum mag innocence destroyer, but an assult rifle is a fucking hunting rifle that looks a little more scary. you can kill people just as easily with a normal rifle. people need to know what the fuck they are talking about before they start assuming every redneck has spent the 6 month process and tens of thousands of dollars it costs to acquire a fully auto weapon.

i hunt with my assult rifle, because its a very accurate gun and works extremely well for it, it shoots an idea round for what i hunt as well.
Dec 16 2012 3:22PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,181
for illegal *purposes
Dec 16 2012 3:25PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
exactly what i said, good job.
Dec 16 2012 3:25PM
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flux-capacitor
Posts: 317 - Karma: 42
meh you make valid points, i live in the stabbing capital in Europe but I don't feel the need to carry a knife around with me as i think it just ads to the problem of the stabbing statistics. A sharp kick to the sack will deter any scabby fucker thats after my stereo.
Dec 16 2012 3:26PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
it sounded like he was implying that, because criminals don't care about following the law and will just get guns illegally if they can't get them legally, we may as well just have really loose gun laws and let them get guns legally.
Dec 16 2012 3:27PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
oh and no i dont think what happened was a mistake, it was a crazy kid going on some rage fueled killing spree. people are violent creatures, who woulda thunk it?

Dec 16 2012 3:27PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
sorry, your writing kind of sucks and makes it hard to figure out what exactly you are trying to say. what did you mean by that sentence, then?
Dec 16 2012 3:29PM
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pomme-de-terre
Posts: 3915 - Karma: 703
yall niggas is retarded.



yo, you can make all the guns illegan an all that shit but lyke ima just walk down ta ma homie chets house, he gon sell me dat .40 an not give a fuck about no laws mothafucka. i be robbin mafuckas erryday.
Dec 16 2012 3:35PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
yes, but shouldnt we try and stop the crazy kids going on rage fueled killing sprees? he was using guns that were owned purchased perfectly legally. you can say they were his moms and she stole them, but they are still lying around his house. why was his mom allowed to purchase guns when she has a clearly mentally unstable person who might use them to hurt people living in her house?
Dec 16 2012 3:35PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
*he, sorry.
Dec 16 2012 3:36PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
i basically meant it doesnt matter what laws you put in place, criminals are not effected by them. they already dont get their guns legally, making it harder for us to will not make it harder for them to. detroit is a perfect example of this, almost impossible to purchase a gun there, yet its one of if not the worst city for gun related crime.

mexico's a perfect example, california, south africa, many drug, crime and gang ridden south american countries are also great examples, criminals and gang members are not effected. the major sources of gun crime in the US wont flinch if you make it harder for regular citizens to acquire guns.
Dec 16 2012 3:39PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
dood knows whats up
Dec 16 2012 3:41PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
so then what i said was more or less a correct interpretation. a little hyperbolic maybe, but essentially accurate?
Dec 16 2012 3:41PM
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..AR6rider..
Posts: 127 - Karma: -75
Are you really dumb enough to believe that a person capable of killing 20 kids wouldn have found another way if he couldnt get those guns? You think he would have just said fuck it? Nah, guns arent even the underlining issue here man
Dec 16 2012 3:43PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
yeah we should, but i have not heard a good solution yet, id love to have an effective solution. require gun manufacturers to provide a lockable gun case for every gun they manufacture/sell? i dont know. the source of the problem is obviously in the kids themselves and our culture.
Dec 16 2012 3:45PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
when did i say that? but saying "Well, these insane, dangerous people will get guns some other way if we don't sell to them anyways, so we may as well sell to them and save them the trouble of getting them illegally" seems incredibly stupid to me. i'm not sure why it makes sense to you.
Dec 16 2012 3:47PM
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scandy101
Posts: 460 - Karma: 19
not really, going out and finding criminals and handing them guns is a bit different. gang members and criminals are not walking into gun stores and filling out background checks they will fail then buying traceable guns that they plan on using to harm people.

if you want to get rid of the black market gun trade and reduce the major source of gun crime in the country then our attention needs to go to gangs and the black market trade of guns. which we dont seem to give a fuck about for some stupid reason.
Dec 16 2012 3:49PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
stricter regulations on who can and cannot legally buy a gun. there's the solution. if you have a mental disorder or background that will make you potentially dangerous to others you should not be allowed to buy a gun. if you live with someone who could potentially use guns to hurt others you should not be allowed to buy a gun. doing a more in-depth background check and psychiatric test on people who try to buy guns won't stop the 95+% of people who intend to use their guns completely safely from buying them. it might take a little longer to get them, but it won't prevent you from getting what you want
Dec 16 2012 3:50PM
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..AR6rider..
Posts: 127 - Karma: -75
Missing the point...by a lot. Im not even saying "what if he got the guns illegally". What if he made a pipe bombs and blew half the school up? Should we make all the ingrediants to a pipe bomb illegal? Im saying he would have did regardless to whether he had access to guns or not
Dec 16 2012 3:52PM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
i know. i'm saying we should make laws that ensure that he at least can't do it with legally purchased guns.
Dec 16 2012 3:54PM
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