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December, 2024

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Right to bear arms?

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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
remember, when this amendment was written, everybody had a single shot, 6 foot long rifle that took a minute to reload.

that amendment would never be re-written today with the guns we have now.

it's a stupid law, and nobody should have guns but soldiers and officers of the law.

end of story.
Dec 14 2012 4:29PM
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LIL_WAT
Posts: 1900 - Karma: 475
This. Whilst it would be novel to pass a few laws and say 'job done', that approach clearly doesn't work as well as you would like OP.


Dec 15 2012 3:36PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
seriously dude why cant you just except the fact that its just better to let law abiding people enjoy their privileges and punish the people who violate that privilege, and not have to have people who did nothing wrong have to deal with this?
Dec 15 2012 3:38PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
but they were legally owned.

meaning that with no legal ownership of firearms, you have no fucking moms and dads with guns in their closets for their kids to poach, or even for them to use at all.

what's your argument, she needed 3 guns there for her personal protection?

that worked out well. she would have done more to protect the safety of innocent lives had she not had any guns at all.
Dec 15 2012 3:41PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
ny is ranked 46th in gun crimes by state, and we have nyc and a very hard time to get a gun. it works in ny why not the whole usa.
Dec 15 2012 3:43PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
because its a fucking gun. why the fuck do you need a gun? they're cool? you like taking pictures with them? you like to stick your dick in them? get a new hobby. youre not any more protected by having a gun than you are having half a brain, so if personal security is an issue, stick yourself in a steel crate and lock it so the bad guys cant get you.

too many accidental deaths for this pointless means of protecting oneself.
Dec 15 2012 3:45PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51861 - Karma: 164,881
I think we blow everything out of proportion. Just because the few things that happen have that shock factor, and the news rides the wave.

We're talking about things that really don't happen often. But we're talking about changing the gun laws(some people banning guns) because of pretty rare occurrences.
Dec 15 2012 3:48PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
but the difference is taking off our shoes at the airport can potentially save an airport to a building full of people, and they dont take our shoes away.

you take away people guns, you're taking away an entire culture of hunting skeet shot etc...

and as far as your comment goes with people taking advantage of their rights. if a person who broke laws did something wrong
A. he cant legally buy a gun anymore
B. He could illegally buy a gun, which is something we can not regulate.
Dec 15 2012 3:49PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
it just all comes down to this.


if guns are around, theyre going to get used. more so for bad than good.

if less guns are around, you have less gun use. sure, maybe a bit less for good, but A LOT less for bad. and that's what we need.

if you honestly think there would be more crime / accidental death with less guns around, you're nuts.

less guns, crime would go down, accidental death with go down, personal safety and protection by responsible individuals might go up ever so slightly. so what. thats a sacrifice worth making.

sacrificing a bit of personal protection to help drastically reduce nationwide crime / accidental death is well worth it.
Dec 15 2012 3:49PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
^ define "bad" gun use

and no it would not change at all, most of the people who do "bad" things with guns are gang members who do not legally own a gun.
Dec 15 2012 3:52PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
again, i use guns to shoot targets, hunt elk, duck etc... there is nothing wrong with that, if you think there is then kindly fuck off and leave america.
Dec 15 2012 3:53PM
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LIL_WAT
Posts: 1900 - Karma: 475
Who is saying you NEED a gun? Most of us in here are simply for the 2nd amendment right in principle at the Federal level. 'Need' and the right to bear arms are two different things.

Dec 15 2012 3:53PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
and lets stop looking at illegal gun use. you said it yourself, we cannot regulate it.

we're looking at legal gun use.

illegal gun use will remain the same regardless of how good legal gun control is.

what we can do, though, is reduce legal gun use, so that crime and accidental death as a result of legal gun use will drastically decrease. and that's what we need to do. because yesterday's crime was a result of legal gun ownership. the guys mom legally had 3 guns in her closet. i say, that guy's mom shouldn't legally have any guns. in fact, i say nobody should legally have any guns, and if you like gun for personal protection, too fucking bad. go buy a crossbow instead. the easy-to-use high killing power of a gun should not be available for public use, especially when they are the direct cause of so much violence.

sure people might go on murder sprees with crossbows then, but i guarantee they wouldnt be as bad as the killings we have now. guns are just too easy to kill with, and too easy to kill yourself with. it's the perfect weapon for a mentally unstable person. kill 50 people in 2 seconds, kill yourself painlessly afterward. that is not ok. they need to be outright banned.
Dec 15 2012 3:54PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
tell me the last time there was a school shooting when someone used a legally owned gun, for that matter any real mass shooting. i cant think of one.
Dec 15 2012 3:55PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
"The state is also one of seven to have an assault weapons ban that specifically lists more than 35 semiautomatic and automatic weapons. It does not appear to cover the .223 caliber rifle used in Friday’s attack."
Dec 15 2012 3:56PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
and no newton was not legally owned he copped the gun from his mother.
Dec 15 2012 3:56PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
well too fucking bad. because you like shooting guns, kids have to die. give up that right, find a new hobby, less innocent people die. take up archery, legolas. guns shouldnt exist for recreational use. not when they're so deadly and often being used for NOT recreational use.

maybe i like planting c4 as a hobby. what, lets make it legal to own C4 and sell them at every corner store so i can have my play time? fuck off, that's an idiotic rationale. you like guns therefore they should be legal for random dumbasses to own too?

its all or nothing. some people can be responsible, some cant. but because some cant, i say nobody should get them. nobody.
Dec 15 2012 3:57PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
legally owned or legally owned gun inside your house is basically the same thing. he had access to the legally owned gun.
Dec 15 2012 3:58PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
derp, yesterday. the shooter used legally owned guns. they weren't his, but they were in his house. they were legally there. had guns not been there, no incident would have happened.

his mother was irresponsibly keeping guns in the closet that were easily accessible. so basically that dumbass second amendment allowed an idiot mom to have guns, and 20 kids died because of it.
Dec 15 2012 3:59PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
yah kids also have to die because of drunk driving accidents. you know what just because that happens too we should ban all alcohol, but i bet you like to drink alcohol.
Dec 15 2012 3:59PM
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feihlination
Posts: 8356 - Karma: 1,084
shut the fuck up. dude seriously.

obama similar to hitler? get a life dude.

you forgot the "national" infront of socialism. you know he was "more" on the right wing side, right?

germans didnt revolt against hitler because they had no weapons, get real dude and idk how this gas chamber thing fits in. you cannot fight a national army with a few untrained and unorganized gun owners. the wehrmacht, SS were all equipped with the best weapons available.

come on man, would you and your gun-sucking fuckups form a militia and fight against tanks, drones, jetfighters and all the other stuff the american armed forces will throw at you if your government went corrupt?
Dec 15 2012 4:01PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
exactly, he had no consent to use the gun, he stole it therefore it was illegally in his possession before the incident happened.
Dec 15 2012 4:01PM
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Gods_Father
Posts: 1466 - Karma: -284

"it's a stupid law, and nobody should have guns but soldiers and officers of the law."-op

wat?

Dec 15 2012 4:01PM
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Gods_Father
Posts: 1466 - Karma: -284
it should also be mandatory to BE TRAINED by the state, not some club. switzerland...
Dec 15 2012 4:03PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
/headdesk
Dec 15 2012 4:04PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
hit yourself a few more times, maybe you will finally get it.
Dec 15 2012 4:05PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
thats what i mean. nobody, as in citizens. policemen and soliders are different. theyre put there with the purpose of serving and protecting. that's their job. they have access to guns, explosives, all sorts of shit.

im talking regular citizens.
Dec 15 2012 4:05PM
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Barefootin_Fiend
Posts: 7618 - Karma: 4,727
I believe Virginia tech was done with legally acquired weapons.
Dec 15 2012 4:05PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
if a gun is legally owned by an irresponsible parent, you need to take the gun away. you cant make an irresponsible person responsible.

all you can do is take away the shit they use irresponsibly.

like if you drink and drive, you lose your license and take away the car, they dont take away the alcohol and say "you need to be safer".
Dec 15 2012 4:07PM
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deathcookie
Posts: 1800 - Karma: 1,196
Don't you understand that the criminals who want guns will still be able to get them?  Criminals will be able to get guns just as easily (as most criminals buy their guns illegally), but because there will be an entire new black market, the amount of criminals would soar.  While the amount of deaths caused by criminals such as drug dealers and thieves would not decrease very much, the amount of deaths caused by gun traffickers would increase exponentially.   Events such as yesterday's are outliers.  It is the law abiding citizens who will have their guns taken away from them. 

The amount of guns in the hands of criminals will rise and the amount of guns in the hands of ordinary people (who are very unlikely to commit crimes) will drop.

I do agree though, less guns in the hands of criminals is a good idea.  Guns should not exist as their entire purpose is death.  But the thing is, banning guns will lead to more criminal activity, leading to more guns in the hands of criminals, which is what we should be worried about. 
Dec 15 2012 4:08PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
collectively, american citizens do not abide by gun control laws properly, they're being used for crime and handled incorrectly leading to accidental death, so take the guns away.

ideally, i'd be all for laws that restricted gun use or only gave them to responsible people, but you cant do that. you cant say "ok you pass, here's your gun. oh and you, you're an idiot, no gun for you". it's all or nothing. either everyone has access to guns, or nobody does. and with that, i think it should be nobody.
Dec 15 2012 4:10PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
but that wont bring back the kid that got run over.
Dec 15 2012 4:10PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,181
Yet why do many police organizations disagree with what you're saying. I think they know better than you do.
Dec 15 2012 4:12PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
anyway bottom line is this.

-someone wants to kill someone with a gun, legal to own in states or not, he will get hold of one
-people who follow the law should not be effected by others dumb decisions
-not going to change the gun related homicides if we do ban them
Dec 15 2012 4:12PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
of course. but dont you understand that if we take guns out of peoples' homes, we dont have adam lanza snapping and grabbing his moms guns which were easily available to him and in the home.

not having access to something is a deterrent. if you go home one night and think "fuck i want to kill that guy" and well look at that you have a gun there, i'd say you're more dangerous than someone who thinks "fuck i want to kill that guy" and doesnt have a gun there.
Dec 15 2012 4:13PM
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deathcookie
Posts: 1800 - Karma: 1,196
nobody but the criminals who can easily buy the guns left over from all the gunowners today, the guns that will be imported from other countries, and ghetto guns made by drugdealers.  The only way you could do this is to somehow take every gun from every gun owner, somehow make sure people dont make their own guns, and eradicate all of the guns in the entire world.  Seems doable...
Dec 15 2012 4:14PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
he can still buy a gun if he wanted to, it wouldnt change anything just delayed it awhile.
Dec 15 2012 4:14PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
link
Dec 15 2012 4:15PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
this argument is completely invalid.

It is not rare. It is not something that only happens once every so often. In the last 6 months, 2 such incidents have led to the deaths of 32 people in classrooms and movie theaters.


28 people have been killed in school shootings in canada since 1900

104 people have been killed in school shootings in Europe since 1900.


Since the start of 2012, 34 people have been killed in classrooms in the United States. More than Canada has had in over a century. To match Europe's tally, you only need to count back to Columbine in 1999.

So, since 1999 the US has had more people die in classrooms than all of Europe and all of Canada have sine 1900. Oh and to get the US number above Canada and Europe combined, you don't even need to count school shootings earlier than 1990.


But no, it happens so rarely.
Dec 15 2012 4:16PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
the only reason guns are out there is because there's big money in selling guns. it has nothing to do with what's smart. the USA is far from smart. they're just profitting off of a bunch of dumb citizens they dont care about. they sell you cigarettes, alcohol, give you a license, and some guns, and a bunch of credit cards you cant afford to pay off. they make money off of this, and at the cost of a few tragedies? sure why not!

it has nothing to do with smart. thats why the USA is such a shithole and will eventually be in another civil war.
Dec 15 2012 4:16PM
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deathcookie
Posts: 1800 - Karma: 1,196
But like I said, crimes like those are outliers.  Most gun related crimes are caused by gang warfare/drugs/etc.  Judging which gun deaths are better than others is completely ridiculous, and although events like these might decrease, the amount of deaths caused by a new black market will increase far more.
Dec 15 2012 4:16PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,181
Collectively American gun owners are using their firearms appropriately. If not there would be 65 million people shooting up the country.
Dec 15 2012 4:16PM
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Gods_Father
Posts: 1466 - Karma: -284
you don't understand that when you do that you also take away a person's right to defend themself+family! but you already said that having that right is ridiculous anyway....
Dec 15 2012 4:17PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
you really think that if a guy doesnt have easy access to guns, that the crime still happens?

you're honestly just an idiot.

how many crimes of immediate, passionate rage do you think occur. i'd say lots. murder/suicides, etc etc. theyre all preventable just by taking away the gun.
Dec 15 2012 4:17PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,181
Read my post a few pages back, there's a link there also
Dec 15 2012 4:17PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
sick speculation without any proof or statistics bro.
Dec 15 2012 4:18PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
it is a ridiculous right. having a gun to protect yourself is stupid. there are lots of other ways to protect yourself. choosing the way of the gun, which also costs many innocent people their lives --and id say a lot more people are killed when guns than are protected. that point must at least be acknowledged even if not condoned.
Dec 15 2012 4:18PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,181
I don't see how this answers my question
Dec 15 2012 4:20PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,521
ohmyfuckinggod

it does and will maybe in your bizarre world it doesnt happen. but i mean cmon, if that was true mexican drug cartels would not exist.

murder huh, there are other ways to kill people, and those would happen still, and so would illegally bought guns.

suicide apparently its like really really hard to mentally comprehend killing yourself with a gun.
Dec 15 2012 4:20PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
read the first page where my statistics done with science disproves yours.
Dec 15 2012 4:21PM
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Gods_Father
Posts: 1466 - Karma: -284

what the fuck are you talking about rambo???

if a person/group of people, with guns, comes into your house, what are these "other ways" that you use to protect yourself? please, enlighten me. when they point the gun at little johnny, what are you going to do?

Dec 15 2012 4:21PM
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