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Avalanche Protection

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Gdawg3
Posts: 1956 - Karma: 10
For my college engineering class I've designed an avalanche hood that provides people with an indefinite air suppply. Only problem is, you need to be wearing your hood no matter what while you ski, because the system deploys from inside the hood. The question is, would you be willing to wear your hood (completely normal feeling) while you ski backcountry if it guaranteed avalanche survival? This is a survey, please just say yes or no.


We have an old saying down on the bayou....Blehhhhh!!!
Nov 1 2004 5:02PM
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skisebski
Posts: 5970 - Karma: 21
^werd, i agree with fortskier guy




-getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery-
Nov 2 2004 10:37AM
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221
Posts: 3488 - Karma: 11
your marketing is all wrong. you gotta say the hood will create an air pocket so you can smoke a big greasy bowl while you wait for your asshole friends to dig you out.

----------------------
'Dude, check out this nasty gouge.'
'Your mom has a nasty gouge.'

'221 is fucking hilarious'
~221
Nov 2 2004 11:27AM
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Gdawg3
Posts: 1956 - Karma: 10
That's an interesting addition. And if you guys are still interested in the product, I'll post a ridiculous amount of pictures once the design expo is over with. If any of you guys have some suggestions as far as the presentation of the product itself goes, feel free. And arguing over avalanche statistics is like, well, arguing over the internet; completely pointless. Avalanche statistics are notoriously spotty and hard to get.


We have an old saying down on the bayou....Blehhhhh!!!
Nov 2 2004 1:32PM
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Shaggy
Posts: 4349 - Karma: 17
i'd love to see pictures and tech info once you get the patents all taken care of
Nov 2 2004 1:58PM
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destroy
Posts: 6665 - Karma: 12
no i wouldnt be willing to wear my hood all the time, and when it comes down to it, neither would most people. it restricts your peripheral sight, and when you're skiing, it would be pretty hard to keep it from blowing off your head.

-L o g a n

~{*NWFT*}~
Nov 2 2004 2:40PM
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PowderCanuck
Posts: 2626 - Karma: 10
Assuming that this hood actualy works, I would wear it whenever I go backcountry. Not on the slopes though


_______________________

Screw this I'm going skiing
Nov 2 2004 2:44PM
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destroy
Posts: 6665 - Karma: 12
explain how you would keep it on your head the whole time, and how it will fit over helmets

-L o g a n

~{*NWFT*}~
Nov 4 2004 6:05PM
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live4skiing
Posts: 218 - Karma: 10
well if it was for backcountry and big ass mountains that could 'slide' at any moment, i think that it would be a good idea. how much money does it cost to make one? i would probably be willing to wear the hood but not all the time. when did you come up with this?
CHECK IT
Nov 4 2004 7:38PM
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snomaster
Posts: 3346 - Karma: 5,771
Yeah, I'd wear it.

Can it fit UNDER the helmet?

*all hail to the mighty gods of snow*
Nov 4 2004 8:25PM
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Gdawg3
Posts: 1956 - Karma: 10
It only fits over the helmet. And I got North Face to donate a jacket, and the other supplies only add up to about $200. This isn't supposed to be something I'm going to sell, just a class project.


We have an old saying down on the bayou....Blehhhhh!!!
Nov 4 2004 8:43PM
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cthomaso
Posts: 86 - Karma: 10
no, about half of the serious big mountain riders that have a true possibility of getting in an avalanche wear a full face helmet.
Nov 4 2004 9:20PM
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-madd_trixx-
Posts: 859 - Karma: 17
no.
the only avalanche protection is avalanche education.
*and it's 99% of the people who die of asphyxiation die within the first 30-45 minutes of being buried. in general most deaths are from blunt trauma to the body by inanimate objects, or snapping the spine while being thrown around like a rag-doll


'Fuck that song. I don't even like that song. That songs for the ladies......FUCK THEM! You know what I'm gonna do instead of that song? ANOTHER SONG!'
-Dave Grohl, Foo Fighters
Nov 4 2004 9:22PM
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kinosoo
Posts: 925 - Karma: 10
this sounds sort of like the bd ava lung except better, since who would acuall where the bd one before they go under. any how that sells so i thnk the hood might be ok, i'd buy it, but would i use it?
Nov 4 2004 9:57PM
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deathbystereo163
Posts: 486 - Karma: 10
HECK YES!!
Nov 4 2004 11:13PM
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TJ_Burke
Posts: 1 - Karma: 10
No

Wearing a hood would decrease your ability from being aware of your surroundings to prevent you from getting caught in an avalanche in the first place. Would also be too hot for skinning uphill under most conditions.
Nov 5 2004 1:42AM
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Summit1776
Posts: 79 - Karma: 10
I'm not even going to try to correct some of the idiotic conjecture on avalanche stats. Try google, or better yet, go read Ian McCammon: www.snowpit.com

'I'm an engineering STUDENT who is way smarter than anyone ever especially all those EXPERIENCED engineers (who actually have their degrees too) and snow safety scientists that have been in the industry longer than I've been alive. My device is failsafe, I've thought of everything, and I don't want your opinions because I'm smarter than all of you, now answer my fucking marketing survey you assholes.' What an arrogant prick.

His device must either be:

1. An SCBA system tank + regs and an auto deploying mask

2. A new design of the avalung principle (air intake and exhaust in separate positions to prevent ice mask).

3. Mr. know-it-all hasn't met Mr. Murphy:

Some sort or snorkel system which could be destroyed by the slide or not long enough or at the wrong angle or some sort of avalanche airbag mask that will inflate around your face to create an large airspace, however the inflating bag can: 1. pop or rip by the avalanche 2. Provide a lever for the avalanche to torque off your friggin head if the airspace is big enough and the bag is made by something the avalanche won't destroy (though then one wonders how he inflates it without messing up the victims face or causing barotrauma, that should be cool).

-----

It had better be helmet compatible because nobody is going to ditch the trauma protection of a helmet for this toy. What’s more likely, crashing or being caught in a slide?

For heavens, sakes, don't encourage idiocy by calling it 'avalanche protection.'

It won’t save the victim from trauma. It won’t save the victim if they are alone. It won’t save the victim whose chest is crushed. It won’t save the victim who didn’t see the slide or couldn’t press the button in time.
It is what I would do if it were me. It's not me and neither are you.
Mountain Rescue - High Altitude Dive Rescue
Nov 5 2004 1:49AM
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skisebski
Posts: 5970 - Karma: 21
hey kinosoo, change your icon,




-getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery-
Nov 5 2004 10:48AM
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skiguy
Posts: 54 - Karma: 10
well put summit. my thoughts exactly.

there are countless people out there working towards reliable avalanche protection. they have engineering and science degrees. you shouldn't come on here, ask for people's opinions and rip them up when they say they're skeptical without giving any idea on the principles behind this safety system. for all we know its a giant inflatable bag that will only help an avalanche snap your neck.

and as a master's student in engineering i feel you're a little naive and extremely arrogant when you say something to the degree of 'i've thought of everything, don't worry about' and 'i'm just a guy who knows a shitload about avalanches, scientific principles and materials construction'.

I absolutely guarantee you haven't thought of everything and you may know tons about avalanches, principles and construction but how can we possibly expect to take you seriously when you say your system is absolutely foolproof? it isn't.
Nov 5 2004 11:33AM
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witty
Posts: 5616 - Karma: 179
wow summit...your the only newb i have ever seen that has had such good point and made such a worthwhile comment
********************
witty cent is now live on stage!
Nov 5 2004 11:43AM
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Huckasorass
Posts: 1737 - Karma: 80
When slough starts coming on to your sides and pointing your skiis downhill for you, it's pretty damn important you know what's behind it, bottom line is, if you can't move your head 45 degrees in both direction as fast as you can to plan your traverse, I wouldn't even consider it.
And this is before the surface even cracks.

You can't have rythym if you ain't got no soul
Nov 5 2004 12:14PM
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Gdawg3
Posts: 1956 - Karma: 10
To summit1776: 1.


We have an old saying down on the bayou....Blehhhhh!!!
Nov 5 2004 1:42PM
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live4skiing
Posts: 218 - Karma: 10
dude, it's probably a really good idea and you should continue with it. no matter how many people say no, there will always be people that say yes so don't listen to the douchebags on here.
CHECK IT
Nov 5 2004 2:03PM
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Summit1776
Posts: 79 - Karma: 10
Uh... so how heavy is that setup? 20lbs? 30lbs?

So virtually unlimited SCBA air in an avie...
so an 80cf? 120cf?

Whats the cost? $1000? $2000?
With the first and second stages?
I'm assuming you are using fiber composite wrapped tanks to save weight.

Will this double or tripple the size of my pack?

Gonna use an enriched air mix? Don't forget to add a scrubber. Sweet! Then you can have the increased cost, size, and weight of an SCBA rebreather that requires automatic control in subzero temps (also make sure your regs are ice rated, and will the scrubber system survive the abuse? extra moisture in the system too!).

Who services the device? Certainly not any ski or mountaineering store out there... you'd have to take it to a SCUBA shop (who probably can't fill the higher pressure composite tanks to their limits).

Sounds like a cool but impractical idea (too expensive, too heavy, too bulky, and very complex). Maybe snowmobilers would like it...
-----
It is what I would do if it were me. It's not me and neither are you.
Mountain Rescue - High Altitude Dive Rescue
Nov 5 2004 9:55PM
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Gdawg3
Posts: 1956 - Karma: 10
Boy, you're just so smart, it's unbelieveable. Obviously, I haven't thought of any of these things, and neither have my professors who have a combined 100 years in various mechanical engineering fields. I said I'm an engineering student because I wanted people to answer the survey, not badger me with questions. I appreciate your condescending suggestions, now kindly fuck off.


We have an old saying down on the bayou....Blehhhhh!!!
Nov 6 2004 12:26AM
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Gdawg3
Posts: 1956 - Karma: 10
And by the way, I never said it was foolproof, I just wanted people to answer the survey, instead of asking questions. I'm not invalidating the questions, I'm just not responding to them.


We have an old saying down on the bayou....Blehhhhh!!!
Nov 6 2004 12:28AM
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Summit1776
Posts: 79 - Karma: 10
'don't ask me anymore questions... I've thought of everything and it's taken care of.' -Gdawg3

DURRR

'I never said it was foolproof' -Gdawg3

Won't answer questions eh? Why not? Does it question your 'perfection?' You want everyone to answer your little marketing survey. You want them to decide whether they would wear an unknown device without telling them how big, how heavy, and how much $$$?

Be a bit more gracious.

A bit of advice, stop demonstrating that you have the social skills of an engineering student. Drop the 'I am an engineering student. I'm so smart. You all are stupid.' arrogant attitude. I was NukE student for two years. Know what? It doesn't mean I'm smarter than you. Your being a in the '20th best program' (woohoo?) doesn't make you a superior human. You demand respect because you are (just a) fucking college student but return none and bristle when someone presents your with a tough question or a fraction of your own 'condescending' attitude. I find it highly amusing. Grow the fuck up gaper. ;)

Now...

How much will your device weigh? 20lbs? 30lbs? How much will it cost? $1000? $2000? More? How much bulk will it add to my pack?
-----
It is what I would do if it were me. It's not me and neither are you.
Mountain Rescue - High Altitude Dive Rescue
Nov 6 2004 12:40AM
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skisebski
Posts: 5970 - Karma: 21
^ i kinda agree with this guy




-getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery-
Nov 6 2004 10:59AM
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couloir
Posts: 370 - Karma: 10
if u just wanted answers and not 'responses' shouldve posted an online survey instead of posting on a forum where unfortunately for you.... we have free speach to say what we pls... u seem to be quite a pompous dude for a engineer.... but then again... ur an engineer u can do anything. but to answer ur 'question' no i wouldnt be willing to wear a hood f/t over my helmet.
Nov 6 2004 12:02PM
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d686
Posts: 149 - Karma: 46
props to summit - said everything i would have but better.

answer to your survey gdawg; no, and neither would any serious backcountry skier i know.

(the funny thing is that a much more logical and feasible answer than the hood is staring you in the face, but you don't even realize it.)
Nov 6 2004 2:31PM
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nickers22
Posts: 204 - Karma: 10
no
Nov 6 2004 2:56PM
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Davidperez
Posts: 47 - Karma: 51
that just sounds stupied.
A hood?
You don't know anything about avy's do you.
Do you know the amount of pressure that an avy hands out?

A hood! stop whatching t.v.
a mask will deploy? what is this star treck or James Bond.

what happens when you have 50 pounds of snow on your head? does the mask find air like the avalung or what?
soory sounds stupied if your talking about an air pocket from the mask and hood.

Yes if it works
but probably no





Nov 6 2004 2:59PM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
^ Really, he will just overlook your comment. He said it a thousand times, a yes or a no. Not your two cents on his idea if it will work or not.



----2ond in Command of DANSA-----

To Huck. v. The act of throwing oneself off of a cornice, cliff, rock, or any other thing that results in an attempt to fly.

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.
Nov 6 2004 3:36PM
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Huckasorass
Posts: 1737 - Karma: 80
this guys a phony with a capital F- no technical input from him.. sorry dude- SOLD!

You can't have rythym if you ain't got no soul
Nov 6 2004 5:50PM
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telestar6
Posts: 2102 - Karma: 44
Wow a lot of you guys are just arrogant fuck offs especailly you Summit. You just made a bout 2O assumptions they may or may not have anything to do with this devise. This is a college project. It's not like he just whipped up the idea in 10 minutes. I'm sure he's put a lot more thought into it than you give him credit for. Despite all your critisism I think it still sounds like a good idea. Avalungs aren't the greatest idea either but lots of people still use them and are saved by them. No avi protection devise will work 100% of the time, avalanches are simply to unpredicatable and powerful. But even if it only works 10% of the time that's still better than nothing.

I think rails in general are just a phase. - Anthony Boronowski

D-loc's picture looks like a monkey smoking that cig. If you had a mug like that would you really want everyone to see it.
Nov 7 2004 7:58PM
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Cohete-Rojo!
Posts: 91 - Karma: 10
so its been a few weeks. . . did you get an A on the project? Did the patton pass. . . will we be seeing it on the shelves in next season?
Dec 1 2004 4:16PM
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Huckasorass
Posts: 1737 - Karma: 80
...no I heard he died in AK trying it out, it ejected and his head fell off







sofa king we todd did
Dec 1 2004 5:18PM
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KeegLove
Posts: 10166 - Karma: 55
ya man for sure
just make it not fly off with the wind and it needs to be big to fit over helmets

SKI FOR LIFE!



If it was easy it would be called snowboarding.

WHITEWATER





Dec 1 2004 5:33PM
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Kevo
Posts: 2374 - Karma: 136
Only in the backcountry
Dec 1 2004 5:37PM
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Huckasorass
Posts: 1737 - Karma: 80
yeah? you wouldn't use avi protection in the park dude?







sofa king we todd did
Dec 1 2004 6:03PM
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skier_bum
Posts: 395 - Karma: 17
Yep
Dec 1 2004 6:07PM
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Cohete-Rojo!
Posts: 91 - Karma: 10
oh he died. . . dang! I liked hearing about his full proof plan. I wanted to invest
Dec 1 2004 6:26PM
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JBeas
Posts: 1296 - Karma: 237
in the midwest i wouldnt need that unless we got liek 4 snow days in a row wait i still wouldnt need it

ENOM headwear
Dec 1 2004 6:29PM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
Man how is this thread still around?







----2ond in Command of DANSA-----



To Huck. v. The act of throwing oneself off of a cornice, cliff, rock, or any other thing that results in an attempt to fly.



If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.
Dec 2 2004 3:11PM
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Powderdayz
Posts: 1881 - Karma: 10
i love how about 98% of the people that answered this question didnt give a YES or NO answer like he asked....ha//


YES
Dec 2 2004 3:14PM
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Huckasorass
Posts: 1737 - Karma: 80
it's awful, cause now he's dead and will never know about that 98%







sofa king we todd did
Dec 2 2004 3:23PM
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FUUUCK
Posts: 18426 - Karma: 4,888
yes, on slopes steeper then 45 degrees in the back country
___________________________________



'You're from Ontario, and you're an idiot, meaning that your opinion can pretty much automatically be dismissed worthless. Yes, I can back that up, I used to live there. Moving to BC really opened up my eyes to what skiing is really about. HINT: Skiing isn't about tiny verticals, shit talking, and private clubs galore. Get the fuck out of Glen Eden and Craigleith or Caledon, and get real.'-what jib this thinks of me
Dec 2 2004 3:57PM
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Gdawg3
Posts: 1956 - Karma: 10
If any of you live in the greater Metro Denver area, you can come check it out this Saturday on the CU Boulder campus. There's an engineering design expo, and my project will be displayed without about 50 others from 11:00 to 4:00 in the ITLL building in the Engineering Center. If you want directions or more information, send me a message. There have been some design changes, so if you want to come check out the final product, come on down.


We have an old saying down on the bayou....Blehhhhh!!!
Dec 2 2004 4:07PM
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-madd_trixx-
Posts: 859 - Karma: 17
you should take pictures at the expo to give us some ideas


'Fuck that song. I don't even like that song. That songs for the ladies......FUCK THEM! You know what I'm gonna do instead of that song? ANOTHER SONG!'
-Dave Grohl, Foo Fighters
Dec 2 2004 7:45PM
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Summit1776
Posts: 79 - Karma: 10
Well... expo is done. It's not secret now. I'd be curious to see some pictures.
-----
It is what I would do if it were me. It's not me and neither are you.
Mountain Rescue - High Altitude Dive Rescue
Dec 7 2004 12:29AM
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GotamaBCshredder
Posts: 5062 - Karma: 424
yeah dude so if you did some research on thi you could have saved yourself a lot of trouble. Somewheres about 15% of people die of trauma or being swept off cliffs and such while the remainder usually die after about 15 minutes. The 25 persent left can live about an hour but they are lucky and past that its just a merical(spelling) your still alive. So in other words minus being crushed or beat to death your hood could work, then the question is is it easier to fabricate with a hood? Well thats too fuckin bad cuz I don't want whats easy for you I want whats easier for me and most appealing. And so far their is not one recorded death of avalance victim wearing a Avalung that is related to affixiation or other breathing issues. So in other words your market is kinda covered with a really good tool although competition would be nice you sound illy informed on the subject as is and I would definitly buy a Avalung over yours judging by your pitch. And no I hate skiing with hoods.
impossible is really just a lack of determination

BATTLE RIDGE PRODUCTIONS
Dec 7 2004 12:51AM
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