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May have to quit skiing because rockered park skis dont make sense

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raull
Posts: 384 - Karma: 2,232
title says it. i wanna get new skis for christmas, but unfortunately EVERY ski i look at has some sort of rocker. i dont want rocker in my park skis, rocker should be for powder only.

please help me find a pair of 180 + cm park skis that have ZERO rocker. i like regular camber please and thank you. also, i like something wider than 90 and this is where the problem comes in because apparently anything more than 90 underfoot means its an "all-mountain" ski and therefore requires "all mtn rocker" or "all terrain rocker" or "everyone else has rocker so our company is doing it too rocker"

am i taking crazy pills or is anybody else on my side on this issue?
Dec 2 2012 10:49PM
10 12
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coxworth49
Posts: 111 - Karma: 28
haha this thread is getting better and better
Dec 4 2012 8:43AM
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oil.
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 1,254
they have >10% of the profile being rocker. im going to guess this is in response to the new 35m radius rule. try booking a groomer on a pair of hellbents then tell me how many turns you confidently make...
Dec 4 2012 9:06AM
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Port.
Posts: 233 - Karma: 228
Yes. And for real for everyone that has said try rocker knows what's going on. Unless you have tried rocker and do not like it don't shoot it down. If you have and don't like it I respect your decision completely but it's nothing to quit over
Dec 4 2012 10:24AM
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SSteezle
Posts: 9338 - Karma: 6,666
hahahahahahahaha your calfs must hurt from leaning back so much

I learned so much about you from this post

1. You suck at pow skiing
2. You live in a place that only gets heavy high moisture cement snow
3. You've never skied true powder
4. I feel bad for you

pow skiing is all about burying the tips

The Japan Edit from John O'Rourke on Vimeo.

Dec 4 2012 10:55AM
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FUUUCK
Posts: 18426 - Karma: 4,889
When the snow is that deep and light it doesn't really matter how much rocker your ski has though, it's going to be under the snow.

I guess the definition of pow is different from skier to skier, but where I usually ski (BC) any fresh snow is referred to as "pow" regardless of how light it is. I'm not saying that's how it should be, but that's how it is.

Anyway, when you're skiing any kind of fresh snow that's been affected by wind or sun and the consistency is not consistent throughout, rocker has a huge advantage over pure camber. If you're skiing blower pow, any ski will work, and even the fattest reversed camber ski won't get above the snow.

Exhibit A 128mm waist reverse camber ski:

A few runs at Selkirk Wilderness Skiing from Tim Gaudet on Vimeo.



So yeah, I guess you have a point when it comes to blower pow that you'll typically find in Utah and Japan, but for the rest of us that ski more variable snow rocker does make it easier and as a result a lot more fun.
Dec 4 2012 11:20AM
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SSteezle
Posts: 9338 - Karma: 6,666
It does have a lot to do with preference. To me, the thing I dislike most about rockered skis is when there is somewhat heavy snow and I'm on a steep enough slope to bury my tips they continue to want to surface every cut. I agree it does make it easier to ski, but I just prefer to have them not surface every cut I make
Dec 4 2012 11:28AM
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FUUUCK
Posts: 18426 - Karma: 4,889
Fair enough, different strokes.
Dec 4 2012 11:31AM
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panojibber.
Posts: 1041 - Karma: 683
Rockered park skis are garbage, makes no sense. K2 figures out that hell bents sell, so they rocker their entire line. Its fucking stupid, makes me question whether I will ever support a company that so blatantly tries to take advantage of people that get sucked in by ski technology. 99% of people are riding cambered park skis, why? Because it makes sense. Yes K2 has riders that will ride rockered skis all the time, but they don't really have a choice. This is a marketing ploy, kind of sad to see so many people falling for it.
Dec 4 2012 11:42AM
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doGelyst
Posts: 2492 - Karma: 509
Well I wouldn't go that far, but there is some legitimacy to the rest of your post. Other than wide pow skis, it was kind of a stagnant market, so they had to come up with something to keep skis moving off the shelves. Like I said before with "3D TVs = Rockered skis" .............electronics companies needed something they could sell above just regular hdtvs, in a attempt to move more product and of course charge more for it as well.

Someone makes a rockered ski......everyone else follows.
Dec 4 2012 11:55AM
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mphL0ck5
Posts: 43 - Karma: 92
Most park skis have a very little rocker profile too, your argument is invalid.
Dec 4 2012 12:07PM
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popNfresh44
Posts: 3757 - Karma: 44
regular camber carves tighter, but I find taking off, landing, presses and surface swaps easier with the 'jib rocker' on my REvivals. Buttering is debatable, depends more on flex pattern it seems.
Dec 4 2012 12:10PM
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ALaw
Posts: 2616 - Karma: 1,556
.
Dec 4 2012 12:11PM
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TNORTS
Posts: 2077 - Karma: 2,761
Really? So everyone who is riding rockered skis in teh park is just falling into a marketing ploy? I bought rockered park skis because I liked the buttery feeling I got from riding my pow skis in the park and wanted that same feel in a ski with less weight. Ya...definitely a marketing ploy. When I'm in the park I ski 70% rails, and for that kind of skiing I will never go back to camber.
Dec 4 2012 12:15PM
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pussy_puncher
Posts: 194 - Karma: 69
Line 140s?
Dec 4 2012 12:35PM
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Stickity
Posts: 7750 - Karma: 769
yeah they do. they could change teams and/or demand a different kind of ski from the company
Dec 4 2012 12:36PM
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Lord.Quasimoto
Posts: 958 - Karma: 33
skied a rockered park ski last year and went back to full camber this year.

full camber in the park is deff dumb. makes landing anything at high speed / hard conditions sketchy as fack
Dec 4 2012 1:14PM
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gups53
Posts: 361 - Karma: 391
http://libertyskis.com/morphic

186, 94 underfoot no rocker
Dec 4 2012 3:30PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 37817 - Karma: 125,775
I can't wait to surf on my surfaces ;). Naw, but I feel you. I will agree one of the best things in pow skiing is getting absolutely submerged. Coming back up to the surface is liberating.
Dec 5 2012 1:38AM
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j_hamborg
Posts: 561 - Karma: 747
Surface Double Times.
Dec 5 2012 1:57AM
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250r
Posts: 2276 - Karma: 1,013
you dont need to lean back to get your tips up, get up on a plane and you can apply plenty of forward pressure in your boots...
Dec 5 2012 11:58PM
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SSteezle
Posts: 9338 - Karma: 6,666
you should read my other post, i don't want my tips up
Dec 6 2012 12:19AM
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250r
Posts: 2276 - Karma: 1,013
i know, but you were implying that if you have your tips up that you must be leaning back seat
Dec 6 2012 12:21AM
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Powdered_Donuts
Posts: 2180 - Karma: 187
i lost

Dec 6 2012 10:20AM
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DockEllis
Posts: 1131 - Karma: 1,745
Icelantic Da'Nollies come in a 180 88 underfoot and are traditional camber. Check em out, I love mine.
Dec 6 2012 10:30AM
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b-meyer
Posts: 28 - Karma: 13
Get atomic punx fucking love them. But idk what sizes they come in.
Dec 6 2012 11:02AM
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hollygrove
Posts: 7845 - Karma: 93
*pow skiing is all about listening to CALI P LYRICAL FIIIYAAAAHHH!!!!
Dec 6 2012 11:09AM
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AlexMartini
Posts: 2990 - Karma: 1,942
i grew up racing and utilizing the camber in my skis. rocker, early rise and reverse camber skis outside deep powder seem completely useless to me. i want a stiff springy 198 park ski PLEASE
Dec 6 2012 1:33PM
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Pmoore
Posts: 1802 - Karma: 1,246
Park skis are too short, but I like reverse camber stuff. if armada made halos in a 190 i would buy 5 of them
Dec 6 2012 1:35PM
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PappaG
Posts: 931 - Karma: 797
This. No rocker, plenty of pop, stiff flex. Done.
Dec 6 2012 1:40PM
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AlexMartini
Posts: 2990 - Karma: 1,942
but a 190 early rise would ride like a 160... its like snowblades with extensions on them, i just dont get it, if you cant butter or press or surface swap with regular camber skis, i say go skiing more, you'll learn, its not any harder than learning a 540
Dec 6 2012 1:46PM
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I.B
Posts: 8137 - Karma: 24,358
THis is literally my life. I hate rockered park skis. They are fucking stupid.

The title of this thread made me die.

Dec 6 2012 1:50PM
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blindside
Posts: 5619 - Karma: 1,201
I like how advocating cambered skis somehow implies you're a better skier than people on rocker. Most of us who like rockered skis have spent a lot of our park days on camber; we can butter, press and surface swap on them, we just find it more fun on rockered skis.

I don't see what's so difficult to grasp.
Dec 6 2012 2:01PM
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panojibber.
Posts: 1041 - Karma: 683
It doesn't imply that at all. If you like rockered skis go for it, by all means.
The most frustrating thing is seeing ski companies perpetuating the myth that rockered park skis somehow prevent you from catching your tips on takeoff, give you more stability, better on rails etc etc. Yes they are fun but to say that its a ski technology that is making it easier to ski park is ridiculous.
Dec 6 2012 2:13PM
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ESB
Posts: 9274 - Karma: 10,656
Funny that only one person has used the words "early rise" so far in this mess of a thread. Skis come in all different camber profiles these days, and yeah, more and more of them are varying from "traditional" camber. But calling all of them "rocker" means you're not bothering to distinguish between reverse camber, flat, camber with early rise, etc. And they all ski differently.

I love traditional camber too and still ski it for park, but I've really been impressed with cambered skis that have just a touch of early rise (like the Line Chronic). I found them more stable in the crud and more useful all-mountain while losing almost none of the pop and carve that you want from camber. Sure, if 100% traditional camber is your thing, stick with it, and though I admit that the specific category you're talking about (180+ and 90+ underfoot) does seem to be getting more models with more or less early rise, nobody's going to stop making traditional camber skis anytime soon and there are still many to choose from. But I don't think you should get so worked up about skis that are still 95% cambered with a bit of early rise. Hell, you might even like them.

Dec 6 2012 3:28PM
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AlexMartini
Posts: 2990 - Karma: 1,942
i may have sounded a little bitter but my issue isnt with people who like to ski on rockered skis, my issue is that ski companies think the only reasonable marketing strategy right now is to pump out skis that I think suck, and it is impossible to find something i like
Dec 6 2012 3:36PM
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I.B
Posts: 8137 - Karma: 24,358
This. I don't care if you ski rockered park skis. Do whatever you want. I don't care. It's that yeah, My moment teams with full rocker are the best ski I've skied rocker wise. Like with ON3P, why don't they make a straight up rockered fully symmetrical park ski? The Atomic Punx are super legit this year, but I don't know. I miss where ski companies produced 3-4 cambered ski models that you could choose from.
Dec 6 2012 3:40PM
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CrotchKiller
Posts: 9037 - Karma: 6,943
That would be amazing. At 6' 6" its not easy to find a long enough park ski. closest i found is the old kung fujas before the became rockered
Dec 6 2012 3:42PM
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ESB
Posts: 9274 - Karma: 10,656
Your skiing is the way of the past. I recommend Olin Mark IVs.
Dec 6 2012 4:16PM
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crazy_karl
Posts: 774 - Karma: 5,046
Rumor has it that ON3P is developing reverse rocker technologies in conjunction with their new future spin product line dropping next fall
Dec 6 2012 4:32PM
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Coityy
Posts: 166 - Karma: 426
can't call out alex martini
Dec 6 2012 5:27PM
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250r
Posts: 2276 - Karma: 1,013
im not saying one or the other is better, its all personal preference, but i have to say a lot of these arguments seem reminiscent of people who still wanted to ski straight skis when shaped skis came out
Dec 6 2012 5:35PM
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rickroller
Posts: 2468 - Karma: 483
i think the K2 HellBents are pretty sick 0 rocker
Dec 6 2012 6:39PM
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Stickity
Posts: 7750 - Karma: 769
i can't think of one technological change that hasn't been opposed by people who are living in the past. not that i'm saying either is better
Dec 6 2012 6:44PM
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roach1324
Posts: 215 - Karma: 331
rocker in race skis helps with turn initiation and dealing with ruts and other crap on course, but it started before the 35m thing

and i know i know that no one cares, so shutup


Dec 6 2012 8:36PM
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CrotchKiller
Posts: 9037 - Karma: 6,943
Not the same. Straight vs Shaped is a performance argument. Camber vs Rocker is preference argument
Dec 6 2012 8:57PM
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Montana_Hoodrat
Posts: 1953 - Karma: 1,481
i never thought pro skiers complained about their gear...

hmmm. you learn something new every day.

but seriously i don't think you're allowed to bitch about your gear Martini, didn't you sacrifice that right when you signed with salomon?

I'd ride anything if i could get them for free, even salomon skis haha.

not to hate, but we all get to whine because we pay for our shit.

accusations aside, I too wonder why companies only make park skis in shorter sizes. there is obviously a market for 190cm park sticks, why not offer them?

if i was taller i'd be pissed too. luckily 172s go over my head, and i don't have to worry about it.


Dec 6 2012 8:58PM
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M.M
Posts: 1696 - Karma: 4,494
hockey chirp, it would be comparable to calling a skier to a gaper, kinda.
Dec 6 2012 11:39PM
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blindside
Posts: 5619 - Karma: 1,201
Well technically there have been many arguments made that rocker outperforms traditional camber in many respects. In fact a lot of the people complaining about rocker argue that it makes things 'to easy' like not being able to have your tips dive in powder. So the argument is still somewhat performance based.
Dec 6 2012 11:40PM
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SSteezle
Posts: 9338 - Karma: 6,666
It has nothing to do with it being "to easy", it's actually 100% preference. You seem really upset not everyone likes rockered skis
Dec 6 2012 11:43PM
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