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Boot fitting secrets

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N.L.
Posts: 2420 - Karma: 2,746
A boot fitter can be extremely expensive and if you have to go back every week, very annoying. Here is a list of things you can do to help get a better fit out of your ever so comfy ski boots.

Heat mold liners- the ski shop will heat these up with a machine and fit em first try for ya! and then they will pack out before the end of the season....bags of rice in the microwave will produce enough heat to do a first fitting, then the heat produced from skiing will let you settle in perfectly.

Dr. Scholl -your $500 boots come with cardboard like soles.... a memory foam insert inside your boot liner will mold to the bottom of your foot, increasing control and performance. inbetween the hard shell and liner i use an "airpad" sole insert for extra shock absorption.

Forward lean- adjusting the forward lean has become a normality on any freestyle ski boot, often its just a small piece of plastic in the back of the boot that wedges inbetween the upper and lower parts of the boot. this will allow you to bend your knees and get a more aggressive stance.

Canting- this is difficult to explain, always overlooked and effects everything about your skiing. your legs and feet should be centered in your boot... check by removing you liners, stand in your boots at shoulder width and see if the amount of room between your legs and boot shell is even on both sides.... if they are not, use the provided plastic grommets to adjust the sides of the boot until you are standing straight with the boots flat on the ground.

Flexible tongue- some boots come with interchangeable tongues for different flex patterns, but the back of the boots rigidity controls the overall amount of flex from your boot. if these flexes dont match you will have a bad time...

Any fitting beyond this should be done by a professional, but remember, most shop employees dont have a higher education to work on your expensive equipment....please feel free to add any of your own tips
Nov 29 2012 11:10AM
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powninja
Posts: 1053 - Karma: 242
The canting part is slightly off.  It is not necessarily the room between your legs and boot shells.  It is more the alignment of your knees with the boots.  For example:  you want to cant your boots so that when you flex your knees the center of your knees flex's over the center of your boots, causing maximum power to your skis and allowing your knees to flex with the least resistance.  Some people are bow legged or the opposite, causing major problems.  Easiest way is to find the center of your knee cap, stand on a flat surface with your feet in a ski stance, use a plumb-bob to hang form your knee cap, and when you flex foreward the plumb-bob should rest over the center of the toe of your boot (there is usually a crease).  Hope that helps.
Nov 30 2012 11:44AM
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Session
Posts: 5390 - Karma: 22,284
Don't buy fucking Dr. Scholls.

If you can't afford the full custom route

Go to find the following in different places where you live.

Sole: http://www.yoursole.com/us/footbeds/

Sidas: http://www.sidassport.com/en/our-products/winter-sports-16-2.html

Superfeet: http://www.superfeet.com/activity/skiing.aspx

Aline: http://www.aline.com/

Downunders: http://www.downunders.us/index.php/downunders-help-with/ski-snowboard/

See what one fits your foot the best. They are not supposed to be cushiony, and comfy. They will actually feel uncomfortable at first, that's because your musculature is not used to the support.

Put some real effort in to one of the most important parts of your body for fuck sakes.
Nov 30 2012 12:00PM
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Stainr
Posts: 1186 - Karma: -1,150
This^
Nov 30 2012 12:15PM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627

IMO instaprints are the best.  No matter twhat your feet look like, you're getting a custom-made impression of them as a footbed.  I know a lot of people for whom Superfeet's fancy-dancy fucking scanner didn't do shit for except make excruciating torture devices for more money.  DOn't fall for gimmicks, after all YOUR feet are the mold for instaprints, of course they will fit perfect.   

SO yeah, if you have wierd feet don't go for one that's already pre-made in a package, just save up and get the best from a shop you can trust.  It's really not all that expensive when you look at it, and many times you can reuse the beds in your next boots too.   

Nov 30 2012 1:38PM
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Barmski
Posts: 4342 - Karma: 811
Ha I have heard from Surefoot that instaprints are terrible. Personally I had free instaprints and I thought they worked well, but other shops have also told me bad things. Sounds like this thread is all opinionated haha. Surefoot really is the smartest way to go IF you have the cash. I mean what gets more custom than injecting the proper amount of foam into your foot? Boot fitting .......all based on opinion .
Nov 30 2012 7:44PM
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CrotchKiller
Posts: 9037 - Karma: 6,943
If whatever footbeds/insoles you are buying don't put your foot in subtalar neutral then you are just throwing money away.
Nov 30 2012 8:23PM
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purplejumpsuit
Posts: 2208 - Karma: 157
Some people can walk into shops with the wrong attitude for sure... but there is nothing wrong with trying to be informed. I have very messed up feet and have gone to some SHIT bootfitters that I was told were good, and boot fitters are starting to remind me of mechanics, out to just get your money. Of course thats not true, but good boot fitters are hard to come by, and the more you learn about how boots work and different types of liners, stuff like canting, the better off you're going to be when you go to find a boot fitter...

I got no hate for the OP, if you have money to go get your boots done, do research on shops and get it done well. If you dont got the money, educate yourself on how boots work and what you can do yourself.
Nov 30 2012 11:14PM
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Thediamondlife
Posts: 25 - Karma: 11
Instaprints are rubbish. The stabiliser is generic and the mould too. Not exactly custom!
Dec 1 2012 8:55PM
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BRMN
Posts: 439 - Karma: 14
This will come to a shock maybe, but surefoot is the fast food of custom fitting. footbeds are not custom, they start with 1 of 24 or so models then modify from there. they do not do true canting/boot planing, they rarely do any shell work, and over size in most cases then blow foam to fill in space. however they were good to ok back in the 90's because boots and skis were different then. as a boot fitter for over 10 years, I've done SOREfoot (surefoot) system, superfeet system, dfp, instaprint, and by far the Comformable system is the best. most comfortable, best skiing, most modernized for new ski design, new ski technique, and new boot design. but i won't lie, custom boots are expensive. $950-1200 for a boot. customize the shell, balance the foot, align the boot and body.
Dec 2 2012 12:37AM
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Barmski
Posts: 4342 - Karma: 811
Their technology is only getting better not worse. Liners are getting more efficient and boot shells are getting easier to foam. Could you please explain this Comformable System that is the answer to all boot fitting? I am curious. So your on the Sorefoot trend? Aka the 'Bad attitude towards ski boots'..... performance equals pain in some way, comfortable means a sacrifice in performance. We all know this. Go ahead bash Surefoot. I don't work for them and I never said they were the answer for everyone. But I really want to know what system you speak of.
Dec 2 2012 1:27AM
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I_liketobutter
Posts: 2664 - Karma: 997
Some of u guys need to realize that not all I us live anywhere near a good boot fitter. I'm not flying to fucking Colorado or the east coast to get my boots fit.

The only places who sell high end boots sell race boots. No thanks did enough of that during high school which caused me to have that wonderful 6th toe w a narrow heel combination. I bring other boots in there and I'm out hundreds of dollars which I don't have. So what is a guy to do?
Dec 2 2012 1:34AM
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smurphdog
Posts: 16 - Karma: 11
threads
Dec 2 2012 4:38AM
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Rosbif
Posts: 2543 - Karma: 930
Umm, you can make race boots fit pretty well, I have a broad forefoot plus super low volume ankles, I wear a detuned (98mm last, 130 flex) race boot 200+ days a year.

But yeah, unfortunately there isn't really that many substitutes for a good boot fitter, especially for things like footbeds, punches/grinds aren't that tough, but you want to spend some cash on the footbeds/alignment (and no, cuff canting isn't proper alignment)

And surefoot can be good, but some of their techs are shit, I wouldn't ever go to them. I've had sidas/conformable foam, zipfit, and stock race liners, and to be honest, the stock race liner works just fine for the cash, though I probably liked the zip fits the best.

Obviously I know some kids don't have all that much cash, but tonnes of money gets spent on multiple goggles/hoodies/outerwear setups in bst, but it could be much better spent on boots.
Dec 2 2012 7:21AM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7160 - Karma: 17,589
Comformable, is produced by Sidas, it is pretty much the best fitting at the moment. Surefoot in fact used there liners for years. The big benifit of going full comformable over surefoot is the footbeds. The amfits that surefit use are pretty bad. They go the superfeet route of only supporting the back of the arch (mid-tarsel area). This can support the foot ok but does not give the support to the arch which really helps with freesking. I have had to sort out countless pairs.

The sidas system, takes a full print of the foot in either a weighted or semi weighted position. The real beauty then comes from the fact the fitter supports the footbed and grinds them by hand. This allows any level of support to be produced. They are by far the most custom footbeds you can get and usually they only come out at $200.

As I said surefoot used sidas liners so you cant fault them there, and they do, do some boot work, but generally you will still be better off finding a bootfitter who can offer the sidas system.
Dec 2 2012 11:59AM
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YooperSteeze
Posts: 1248 - Karma: 45
This thread is coming from the genius behind this thread... https://www.newschoolers.com/ns/forums/readthread/thread_id/721675/
Dec 2 2012 3:29PM
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eheath
Posts: 61648 - Karma: 123,475
Ya he's a troll, he's been perma banned
Dec 2 2012 3:31PM
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Barmski
Posts: 4342 - Karma: 811
Banned for posting informative threads? I don't understand.
Dec 2 2012 4:07PM
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eheath
Posts: 61648 - Karma: 123,475
No
Dec 2 2012 4:09PM
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Randy_Quench
Posts: 5447 - Karma: 4,343
as important as well fitting boots may be, some of you take boot fitting way to seriously. I ski in a 1982 flexon comp shell with a full tilt classic liner in it.
-the liners are a half size large for the boot
-my footbed is a foot shaped cutout of yoga matt
-I heat molded them myself at a shop due to lack of assistance
-total cost $90 (74.99 for new full tilt intuition liners)

and guess what? they ski phenomenally. I never talked to a single "professional" and have no pains or issues after two seasons of use on a 30 year old boot.

tl;dr
Yes seeing a bootfitter is helpful, but shutting down a kid for sharing knowledge on how to diagnose fitting boots isnt necessary.
Dec 2 2012 4:33PM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 237
define "ski phenomenally" have you ever been in a proper fitting boot w/ custom footbeds?

do you ski park all day long, because you dont really need a performance boot for that.
Dec 2 2012 9:31PM
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BRMN
Posts: 439 - Karma: 14
comformable uses on non rigid, truly custom footbed molded to your feet in a vacuum silicon bag mold.(bags hold shape, u stand on footbed till cool. these footbeds have more natural range of motion than footbeds of the past. allowing the foot to articulate and balance itself, result in better skiing and more comfortable boots. world cup athletes ski in footbeds like these more often than not, so yes, they are good for high performance too. surefoot has now been removing material under the arch of the foot to mimic this idea. so does most super feet cork shops too. they also rely on their foam liners sometimes almost exclusively. oversizing then filling in the void with foam. comformable shops, and some other shops, should and will put your foot in the shell highlight and talk about the areas of customization, then finally punch the boot in those areas. punch! rarely grind. ever boot i sell is punched. this is happening when your standing on your footbed waiting for them to cool. when I'm done with the shell work, and your footbeds are done we will do/talk about alignment. can only be done well with a customized boot. this is basically getting your knee to drive over the center of the boot so you stand and press all four edges evenly. the last step, but very critical. customize the shell, balance the foot, align the boot and body. surefoot does not do this at all. now that being said, its all about your bootfitter within these different systems. and yes i understand most cannot afford or do not have access to this kind of fitting. huge shocker, will probably upset some, i fix a lot of boots from really good shops up and down the east coast. biggest issue, boots too big. also i swear ever other kid in full tilts is in too big of boots. thats basically half the lift line guys! and i will finish again with it is all about your bootfitter.
Dec 2 2012 9:46PM
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deathcookie
Posts: 1800 - Karma: 1,196
Ive got a pair of Dalbello Krypton boots.  There is no pain but my feet go numb very quickly.  If I bring them to a shop to get them worked on, will I end up spending hundreds of dollars?  The only other time I got boots fitted (by a reputable shop) they fit terribly.  This is in Canada also, the land where everything is expensive. 
Dec 2 2012 10:02PM
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Cat_Steezens
Posts: 201 - Karma: 53
take them to the shop u bought them from and they should do it for free.. to me it sounds like it could be an issue with with height from the footbed to the top of ur boot.. easy fix for an experienced shop, just grind down the footbed a little and ur sweet. but i cant say much more than that given that i havent seen ur foot in the boot

p.s: if u think canada is expensive DO NOT go to australia
Dec 2 2012 10:14PM
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Barmski
Posts: 4342 - Karma: 811
So this is only with insoles? What about liners? Do you recommend a stock liner over a Surefoot liner? Stock liner foam quality can be iffy. What is your thought on liners? The quality of Surefoot foam is pretty good. Its supposed to last longer than stock liners.
Dec 2 2012 10:27PM
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BRMN
Posts: 439 - Karma: 14
I do recommend stock liners most of the time over foam. like someone metioned earlier, surefoots liners forever(till about 2 years ago) were actually comformable/sidas foam liners. comformable/sidas went back to the drawing board and reformulated the mixture, and now the foam is much more comfortable and less stiff than the past and current surefoot liners. so basically comformable fitting uses those foam liners for a customer that wants that more precise fit, had foam before liked it wants the latest/greatest, wants the most customized boot i can offer( usually tourist with lots of cash), very large foot size variances(two different sized feet by a lot), and finally extreme low volume foot and leg. These stock liners do not last as long as foam, but are still great products for the most part.(basically boots under $450-400 generally have shit plastic and shit liners) A great example is the new lange liners. the boot shell took 1.5 years of r&d while the liners took over 2. italians have made great shoes forever, thats why almost all ski boots are designed in montebelluna italy, and thats why most stock liners are of some quality now, and most often just plain more comfortable than foam for most folks. that being said, i threw intuitions into my ace of spades because i like the lightness, warmth, and a happy medium between foam and stock.(kinda). most stock liners have some form a intuition like foam in the critical fit areas. Dalbello being the best with their stock TruFit liners(non full intuition), they have almost 40% intuition type foam in the stock liners. now when i started boot fitting over 10 years ago almost all stock liners were crap, why foam was so popular and still is. but now, these boot companies have put a lot more money into the liners for the past 4-6 years. why i find foam not to be the answer all the time. if i sell a hundred full custom boots to the same type of skiers, only 15-25 are foamed.
Dec 2 2012 11:34PM
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BRMN
Posts: 439 - Karma: 14
i would still say the biggest difference from surefoot and other shops to a sidas/comformable shop is true canting/alignement. NOT just messing with the bolts on the sides of the boots that still for whatever reason still say cant on them still. those bolts do nothing for canting really, thats just cuff alignment. the way to cant/align a boot is to check the knees for center of knee mass, and then grind the bottom of the boot to those specific degrees, so the knees are kicked in or out to be square over the center of the boot.
to me, this is most critical. pure performance, better skiing from that last step of customization. shows up great in switch skiing actually.
Dec 2 2012 11:50PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 37548 - Karma: 121,714
Thanks but no thanks. I'll pay the price if it means I'll have a killer pair of boots for a few years that fit.
Dec 3 2012 1:32AM
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weedski
Posts: 383 - Karma: -95
considering youre the biggest troll, you should man up and stop being such a cry baby.
nl contributions are gold compared to your dirt, even if u think his vids arent as good as yours, they are next level in the skiing department, and thats what most people care about.
Dec 3 2012 9:43AM
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Jewschoolers
Posts: 1785 - Karma: 1,142
you missed the point. the kind of people hes talking about dont do any of those things.a lot of people dont take skiing as seriously as you or me. they spend like 500 bucks on all their shit and go to their home mountain a few times a year
Dec 3 2012 10:30AM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627

Well they're 99.9% of comformables (stand-on cooling molding with your feet as the die) at half the cost, and if you have a GOOD boot fitter, they're supported, aligned and hand ground underneath just like comformables.  Yes, it is absolutely custom.  Not sure why you would say that.   

To each his own, and I have pretty flat feet, but for my situation and the dough instaprints are $$$$$$$$$$$$$.  After all- just like boots themselves, it's all about what fits and works best for you.  In my case I'd be an idiot to spend 2x the money to get the same footbeds in conformables.

Dec 3 2012 10:46AM
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Stickity
Posts: 7750 - Karma: 769
lololol
Dec 3 2012 11:53AM
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Randy_Quench
Posts: 5447 - Karma: 4,343
I just typed out a paragraph but deleted it because what needs to be said is simple.
-Yes I have seen professional bootfitters and have tried on (never demoed or skied in) fitted boots with footbeds.
-Phenomenally: very remarkable; extraordinary. I wish you could share the experience it truly is to wear my boots.
Dec 3 2012 1:14PM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 237
Then you don't know what you're missing. Sliding rails all day doesn't need a custom top quality boot.
Dec 4 2012 10:06AM
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eheath
Posts: 61648 - Karma: 123,475
I don't think you understand the definition of a troll.

And NL has been posting bullshit on ns for the past 6 months, he may have been helpful before but recently hes been on a path of destruction and honestly I think he wanted to be banned from NS. he hates it now (if you read any of this threads in SD) and has literally just been making fake threads because hes pissed off AKA trolling. I "troll" people sometimes to fuck with them, but thats about 20-30% of my NS contribution, take a step into the M&A forum and you'll see im very helpful.
Dec 4 2012 12:59PM
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Randy_Quench
Posts: 5447 - Karma: 4,343
who said I slide rails all day
Dec 4 2012 1:56PM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 237
You live in New Hampshire
Dec 4 2012 2:28PM
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Boooshank
Posts: 1650 - Karma: 160
Boot fitting sucks. Wish I could get mine comfy. I've haven't spared much in the way of $ on boots and yet, I still ride uncomfortably.

With a few in here with knowledge, how would some of these comments sound coming from a what you belive to be a trust worthy bootfitter.

"A good ski boot should fit without it being done up?"

"You should be able to ski fine with the buckles undone?"

"Ski a few days bare feet, should bed in by then?"(Boots were 3 days old and had multilple mods already)

I dunno, losing a little faith with my fitter. Apparant fit-out-the-box liners aint living up to it yet. Can't complain at the effort my fitter goes to help so I guess it could be worse.

Honestly now people, how many of you are 100% comfy alllll the time in your boots?
Dec 4 2012 3:20PM
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Rosbif
Posts: 2543 - Karma: 930
Those don't sound like things any boot fitter has told me, the boots undone thing might be somewhat true, if you get your footbed/alignment dialled you won't need as much support, but still.

I am not 100% comfy in my boots, some weeks I ski/teach (teaching is the bit that hurts) for 50 hours plus, and my feet will be sore even with my boot fitting really well. Same with spring, my boots fit pretty tight, so when it gets hot, my feet are sore. But really, with the amount I ski, I think my boots work well, excited to see how these new mods work as well.

Dec 4 2012 3:33PM
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Randy_Quench
Posts: 5447 - Karma: 4,343
skied tucks last april and practically lived in vermont last year. Skied Killy, Okemo, and stowe mostly. I even got a chance to ski snowbird and park city utah last year. you dont know me.
Dec 4 2012 3:36PM
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Randy_Quench
Posts: 5447 - Karma: 4,343
also this.


Click for larger image
Dec 4 2012 3:42PM
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Boooshank
Posts: 1650 - Karma: 160
This is specificlly talking about the canting and the sole laying angle right?

I'm toying with the cuffs and stiffness settings to try to dial em in.

Fuck.ing.Boots!

Long as they're comfy just skiing, i'll deal with the rest. Shouldn't have to with how much money they cost tho.
Dec 4 2012 3:47PM
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Thediamondlife
Posts: 25 - Karma: 11
Dude. Everyone in a FT classic shell is skiing in a Flexon comp.
Dec 4 2012 7:39PM
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Randy_Quench
Posts: 5447 - Karma: 4,343
well, you dont say?
Dec 4 2012 11:28PM
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