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Shell Jacket vs. Insulated

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skisalot111
Posts: 723 - Karma: 158
ok this is my dilemma ,i cannot decide on whether i would buy a shell jacket or an insulated jacket. i want to either get a patagonia powder bowl jacket and pants ( Shell) http://www.backcountry.com/patagonia-powder-bowl-jacket-mens or a marmot lz jacket (insulated) http://www.backcountry.com/marmot-lz-jacket-mens . currently i do not have a jacket or pants ( sold em both at my ski swap) i will be able to ski about 20 times this season from now till mid jan, i am probably going to a college in the south from jan till may so i wont be able to ski so is it worth buying an insulated jacket for only 20 skiing days. if i have a shell i will atleast be able to where it at college on cool days without being too hot. any ideas, thoughts, opinions???
Nov 21 2012 11:32PM
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TACO-DOG.exe
Posts: 11989 - Karma: 12,264
get a shell. you can always layer up with hoodies and long sleeve tees.
Nov 21 2012 11:59PM
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wameron
Posts: 1233 - Karma: 1,222
where in the south are you
Nov 22 2012 12:10AM
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skisalot111
Posts: 723 - Karma: 158
i may transfer to baylor in texas for spring semester (starting in the middle of jan)
Nov 22 2012 12:13AM
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LoathesRaisins
Posts: 3612 - Karma: 4,735
Shell. Can't stand the feel of insulated jackets.
Nov 22 2012 12:28AM
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No.Quarter
Posts: 5257 - Karma: 16,965
I just had my first day of the season in my very first shell jacket. it was about 25-30 degrees and I had my North Face Decagon shell, Columbia omni-heat hoodie, long sleeve Helly Hanson shirt, and base layer. I felt so much less restricted than my insulated jackets of the previous seasons. I don't think i will ever go back. I even had my pit and knee vents open and the only times I got even remotely cold were on the lift with wind. I just had to some muscle clenches (you clench all of you muscles at once and its gets you blood flowing faster). If you are truly worried about getting cold, I would recommend getting a Columbia Omni-heat layer. Mine is a Performance Fishing Gear hoodie and its super thin but really warm. I cant find it on their website and it's probably discontinued seeing as the outlet store in Silverthore has at least 60 and at the end of the summer they still had another 30 from the back room, i got mine for 30 bucks by the way. I also have a Omni-heat fleece that I also cant find on their website, but it was just a regular non insulated thick fleece with the magic shiny stuff. Another idea would be Armada's Goblin insulator hoodie or something of the like. Sorry for the extreme plugging, but i really think the Omni-heat works.

Sparknotes: shell+omni heat+snow= :)

the Hoodie is the same as this but black
http://www.columbia.com/Men%E2%80%99s-PHG-Magnum%E2%84%A2-Full-Zip-Hoody/HM6063_S,default,pd.html
Nov 22 2012 12:37AM
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Noha
Posts: 1281 - Karma: 2,684
shells. i overheat in fucking insulated
Nov 22 2012 12:43AM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,121
shell is better but for the coldest days you are probably going to want to buy a layer of down as well.
Nov 22 2012 1:07AM
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Bogs
Posts: 4296 - Karma: 1,361
shell, as everyone else has said, they're more versatile. there's nothing worse than overheating in an insulated jacket and not being able to really do anything about it. in a shell you can always add/subtract a layer if you are too cold/warm. it's a good option to have.
Nov 22 2012 1:32AM
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tBatt
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 580
yeah, and especially make sure that they're all cotton.

Is getting shell and puffy base layer not an option? Get a nano puff jacket for the colder days.
Nov 22 2012 8:13AM
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90053
Posts: 2565 - Karma: 3,728
if you ski more than four weeks a year get a shell, it gives you so many more options for different conditions with layering
Nov 22 2012 8:19AM
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NotGhood
Posts: 2809 - Karma: 1,255
Haven't used my saga yet, looking forward to comparing it to insulated jackets
Nov 22 2012 10:19AM
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snakerton
Posts: 2434 - Karma: 1,977
i've used shells for the last 10 years and yesterday i tried an insulated jacket for the first time. (thought I try something new). its not bad. I would never use it skinning or in the bc but it was good.
Nov 22 2012 1:09PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,411
Will be buying an insulated jacket for this season. Past few years skiing in a shell has been awefull for me. Freezing my balls of every time I ski, and I would be wearing a base layer, a tee, a thin sweater thing, and then a hoodie. I also live in Manitoba though so... It's usually cold here.
Nov 22 2012 1:18PM
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90053
Posts: 2565 - Karma: 3,728
the reason you are freezing is not because of the shell.....learn to layer properly and stop wearing fucking cotton you retard: synthetic base layer (to remove moisture from the surface of the skiing to prevent heat loss through evaporation), synthetic fleece mid layer (to wick moisture further from the body and to trap some air for insulation), depending on how cold it is add an insulation layer (down or synthetic alternative such as primaloft, to trap air), shell on top (waterproofing, windproofing, durability breathability etc.)

if you are still cold wear an extra fleece, a thicker fleece, a thicker insulation layer, an insulating vest over your shell if you don't think you're going to fall over.

it is sightly more expensive to use a shell layering system but it provides you with more options and you should in fact be warmer, do not listen to this retard who knows shit all about practical ski clothing
/rant.
Nov 23 2012 5:28AM
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Mr_pretzel
Posts: 4616 - Karma: 1,290
Insulated jackets are awesome for inbounds.

You just have to find one that you like.

Layering works, but if i can go with a wool crew and a jacket id take that over 3 wool crews and a shell anyday.
Nov 23 2012 6:31AM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,411
Thanks for calling me a retard... Anyways I am wearing a base layer, a fleece sweater (synthetic) and then a synthetic fleece hoodie. Full under armour setup. The only thing that is cotton is the t-shirt and I've still froze with or without it. Layering with a shell just isn't warm enough for Manitoba.
Nov 23 2012 7:49AM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,411
And to add to that I think most this thread can free that an insulated jacket is best for colder days. An average ski day is usually at or colder than -15C and can be as cold as -30C. On too of that, Most of our time is spent on the lift and not actively moving which sucks and doesn't help to keep warm at all.

My only experience with insulated so far is with my work jacket. I only wear a t-shirt and coveralls while working outside and the jacket itself has 80g body and 60g sleeves and working outside for an hour plus, and just being stagnant, I never get cold.
Nov 23 2012 8:06AM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,411
Holy fuck mobile and triple post. I think that most can agree that insulated will always be warmer...

Don't be a Internet rager. OP wanted opinions, I have mine. No reason to be an asshat and deteriorate this community.
Nov 23 2012 8:19AM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
a shell is more versatile, but me personally, i get cold very quickly and especially during the cold winter months i really love to have an insulated jacket ! you can always open vents to cool down but you don't have to layer a ton underneath it to stay warm ...

or what i also do sometimes is take my ultralight down jacket and put a gtx shell over it, best outdoor winter combo there is imho !
Nov 23 2012 8:50AM
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90053
Posts: 2565 - Karma: 3,728
okay maybe i went a little rage but the point is this is not an opinion based thing, you will be warmer with a shell layering system, i will explain, basically as i tried to say earlier and as i_am_mod pointed out is you can wear a down layer under a shell which you can't do with an insulated jacket as it will compress the down stopping it lofting properly, shells are light so do not do this, very few insulated ski jackets have a decent thickness of insulation or quality of down, admittedly it will be more expensive to buy a really good down layer and a shell but you will be far warmer than in an insulated jacket
Nov 23 2012 7:25PM
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90053
Posts: 2565 - Karma: 3,728
i will also add how to buy a down jacket there are a few points to consider:

how thick it is - this is the most important factor, thicker means greater volume so more air can be trapped

fill power - this is a measuring system used to grade the quality of the down, without going into details it essentially means the higher the grading the more air per cubic unit the down holds

feather to down ratio - not usually important as most companies use down of around 90 : 10

boxing - where the seams are, the more seams the better the down is held in position but this compromises warmth as the jacket will be thin where it is seamed, some jackets have boxing system which eliminates this, for example box wall construction

those are the factors indicating warmth

also some down jackets have a dwr coating which is handy or you can just proof it yourself


Nov 23 2012 7:40PM
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NinetyFour
Posts: 8650 - Karma: 13,411
I can agree with that. As soon as you lose that air gap then you screwed. Still going to give an insulated jacket a shot this year, and if I don't like it I won't be too hurt as I will be keeping the my shell. As far as down layers go, any ssuggestions? I_am_mod, what one are you using? Thanks!
Nov 23 2012 9:40PM
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JzD.
Posts: 1615 - Karma: 153
I ordered a jacket a couple years ago not knowing it was a shell. I was skeptical, but if I layered up I didn't notice how cold it was. Just don't get shell gloves, if they even make them, that's a bad jdea
Nov 24 2012 11:05AM
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skisalot111
Posts: 723 - Karma: 158
i went with the patagonia powder bowl jacket (shell)
Nov 24 2012 9:34PM
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