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Jumbo Glacier, Ye or Ne?

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Simplify
Posts: 4 - Karma: 15
Jumbo Glacier after 20 years has finally gotten its request to become a resort municipality and had its Mayor and City Council appointed recently. This comes after the March announcement that the proposed ski hill got there Environmental Assessment Certificate.

I am just curious to see how a skiing community like this feels about this construction.

Personally I'm not a big fan, because no matter how minimal the environmental impact this place still will lose its wild feeling, that it has always been famous for. As well there are already many lift serviced hills (Kicking Horse, Sunshine, Norquay, Revelstoke to the north and Kimberly, Fernie to the south) heli/cat serviced operations and many trailheads for those who wanna climb for there downhill in the area.

Hill stats

Jumbo Glacier Resort is a unique sightseeing destination and is the only year round ski resort in North America. It will be located at the foot of Jumbo Mountain and Jumbo Glacier — 53 km west of Invermere, British Columbia, on a former sawmill site (This is about 300km SW of Calgary through the Kicking horse pass). The resort will provide lift-serviced access to four nearby glaciers at an elevation of up to 3,419 metres (11,217 feet).

In winter, the ski area will offer a 1,715 metre (5,627 feet) 100% natural snow vertical. In summer, up to 700 metres (2,300 feet) of natural snow vertical will be available on the glaciers.

The resort’s location was chosen for its optimal snow conditions, high elevations, large glaciers, and the fact that the Jumbo Creek valley has seen significant prior use. The valley provides the easiest access to 3,000 metre high (10,000 feet) glaciers in North America.


Nov 21 2012 6:51PM
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a_burger
Posts: 5240 - Karma: 20,806
Looked it up on Google earth, holy shit that will be gigantic
Nov 21 2012 7:12PM
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Simplify
Posts: 4 - Karma: 15
Yea I can't deny the fact that it'll have some awesome terrain, and knowing its going to basically always go be dry and fluffy snow is quite the tease.
Nov 21 2012 7:14PM
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hollygrove
Posts: 7845 - Karma: 93
It won't happen..
Nov 21 2012 7:15PM
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Montana_Hoodrat
Posts: 1953 - Karma: 1,481
cool
Nov 21 2012 7:18PM
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Simplify
Posts: 4 - Karma: 15
Why not?


Apparently at their projected first build out the ski resort will be about 1/3rd of the size of Whistler/Blackcomb, which is pretty big for the start of a hill.
Nov 21 2012 7:20PM
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Bread_Fish
Posts: 760 - Karma: 71
I know
Nov 21 2012 7:23PM
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Gstrong
Posts: 4776 - Karma: 519
it would be sick to have summer skiing closer than whistler or mt hood but at the same time we have many ski hills and animals don't have enough room already so taking it up for a resort would be pretty shitty but i dont know how acurate their reports are but on their website http://jumboglacierresort.com/about/ they say GRIZZLY BEARS

The Jumbo Valley has seen a relatively heavy historic and present-day human presence. Of the 33 individual grizzlies identified from hair samples collected in the 1998 Grizzly Bear Population Survey in the Central Purcell Mountains, only 2 samples were found in the Jumbo Valley, compared with 31 in the other drainages. With mitigation measures, a near “no-net-impact” on the grizzly bear population may be achieved. These mitigation measures can be implemented without requiring any new restrictions on public access to nearby drainages.

but at the same time there's no populations near to support an operation of that size so it would just become another resort village except dependent on people commuting from Calgary

sorry if this makes no sense im pretty baked
Nov 21 2012 7:37PM
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FUUUCK
Posts: 18426 - Karma: 4,888
Honestly, I would rather see the expansion of existing resorts (Revelstoke has incredible potential) than the development of Jumbo. There really isn't a market nearby to sustain this kind of resort.
Nov 21 2012 7:45PM
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liukangkid
Posts: 3323 - Karma: 82
Yeah looks pretty remote. With a resort that size the surrounding area would start to become pretty heavily developed and inevitably more polluted. Once you make an area like this easily accesible to the general public it starts to lose the enchantment that comes with such a serene place.
Nov 21 2012 8:08PM
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willysworld
Posts: 2116 - Karma: 5,485
If you build it they will come !! Build build build!! I wanna ski there build the fucking thing !!
Nov 21 2012 8:09PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,011
Click for larger image

The only person in BC who has said they want this to happen is the old mayor of Radium. Said person is now the new mayor of the newly created "Jumbo Resort Municipality" - which at this point has nothing.

Funny thing is that the industry can't support it, there's no secure investment, Invermere (the nearest town) calls the decision 'undemocratic', the first nations are against it...

Anyone who is actually for this project is blind and ignorant. Doesn't really matter though, 'cause it's never actually going to happen. The pipeline into Kitimat has a better chance of succeeding than Jumbo, and the opposition for that is massive.

Go BC and Canada... a bunch of fucking winners our politicians are.
Nov 21 2012 8:20PM
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ski0
Posts: 2321 - Karma: 5,370
Im from BC and im all for this. The fact that is a year round ski hill, and its epic terrain sound pretty awseome to me. And to be honest, the chances are alot better then you are making them seem.


Nov 21 2012 8:39PM
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250r
Posts: 2276 - Karma: 1,013
i dont really know enough about the subject to argue for or against it but im kind of surprised at its lack of vertical considering how high the peak is. Its like just about the same vert as revy and whist except its like 3000-4000 feet higher. How high is the valley in elevation? i did a quick google search to get an idea of the mountains there and they do look pretty big. like i said not supporting it here, but cant help but wonder what it would be like if it ever did happen.
Nov 21 2012 8:42PM
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Broook
Posts: 353 - Karma: 46
I didn't read other replies because im in a rush, but im all for it. Although i don't think its going to be the next Whistler or anything like there claiming... 1/8th of the size and Its just too far away from international flights and the like. I'de be stoked for somewhere other than Whis to ski that time of year though.
Nov 21 2012 9:08PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,011
No offence, but how long have you been in BC, and have you ever spent any time in the Kootenays? You've been a member on this site for about a year and a half and say your home mountain is Tremblant, so I assume you use the term "from BC" very loosely.

The rest of this is directed at everyone, not just you, so don't take it personally.

Every ski hill (resort - whatever) in the Kootenays is just staying alive with pretty much all planned development halted.

Red's new chair they are putting in next year has been in the works for about a decade. They had big plans of development that went down the shitter once the economy/real estate game stopped expanding.

Whitewater managed to get a new lift in a few years ago, but they are pretty much the ONLY ski hill in the Kootenays that didn't go down the "resort" path and it worked out wonderfully for them (them being the new owners that made the new chair possible).

Kicking Horse had big plans, and after a decade they sloppily opened Super Bowl because they had to expand something but couldn't afford anything else.

Revelstoke is the prime example of why Jumbo is a horrible idea. They were supposed to be a huge international resort, but sadly, they are just struggling to stay alive after changing hands and pretty much cutting back on everything. Only three lifts, two (what seam to be empty) condo buildings, no promised golf course...

On top of all this, in the time it takes you to get to Jumbo from Calargy you can get to 7 "resorts" and 3+ ski hills: All of them needing as much business as possible to stay alive.

Oh... but I forgot about the summer skiing. flat shrinking glaciers. Doesn't Whistler already have that? Why do we need more summer skiing, and further from a major city/airport in the middle of nowhere? Not to mention the impact on the glacier itself. Summer skiing at resorts suck anyways.

Bottom line, is that the Whistler model doesn't work anymore, and anyone who has attempted it in the past 15 years has failed. Shames up in Terrace is a good example of where the industry in BC should be moving towards, not Whistler.


On a lighter note:
In about a week and a half I'm heading up to Jumbo for a ski trip. I'll try to get some pictures/video of the trip if the weather co-operates. Stoked!
Nov 21 2012 9:47PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,011
Pretty sure the vertical isn't skiable in one shot either. There are big steep mountains there, but most of the lifts planned are going to access mellow alpine bowls and glaciers, not the big peaks.
Nov 21 2012 9:52PM
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schism
Posts: 1705 - Karma: 389
I agree with a lot of what drail is saying about ski resorts, but I'm still on the fence with jumbo, only do to the fact that I would be pretty much guaranteed a job there.

People in BC do support Jumbo. It might be at a minium but people still do, and those be are in high places.

Recently in class we had two ladies from the BC government come to talk to us about crown land and applying for tenures of land. They know the ins and outs of jumbo and all the facts about it, and they are very supportive of it.

I personally don't see jumbo being all that successful when it does get created, do to the fact that large destination resort don't grow over night ( revelstoke ) and they NEED an international airport within 3 hours and a safeish drive ( like how the sea to sky is now), or else people straight up won't go.

The thing about resort development is that they need to be done in phases, and should be planned with ski area planning firms like BHA or ecosign for the plans to be feasible, and even at that the last stages of the plans usually don't happen, ( and these plans are like 60 year plans.)

Kicking horse was fucked from the get go due to it being poorly planned from the start. KH being bought by rcr is probably good for them ( only good thing i will say about rcr) as well as their new GM. They'll actually have the money to fix the problems, and create a whole new master plan ( which they have done, and it's huge)

I'm sure you know must of this but i figured some general knowledge about ski area planning should be thrown out there, I completely agree that BC needs to go against the trend of destination resorts and continue to grow with the smaller passion orientated ski hills.

I could talk for days on this subject though, I'm so glad to be out in BC now hahaha.
Nov 21 2012 11:24PM
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ski0
Posts: 2321 - Karma: 5,370
Im living in BC at the moment, but Im from Ontario. I guess i understand your points, and I agree the industry in that area is growing VERY slowly, and the market is already saturated.

I just think that this particular site for a ski hill seems really sick. And I would love to have a resort open all year round in Canada. Especially if they could have a legit park all year round, it would be great for the freeski industry. Maybe the site should be zoned for future ski hill development, but halted for the time until the market picks up.
Nov 21 2012 11:48PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,121
we don't need it.
Nov 22 2012 1:08AM
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250r
Posts: 2276 - Karma: 1,013
thank you for your excellent basic abilities, but that still didn't answer my question.
Nov 22 2012 1:55AM
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FUUUCK
Posts: 18426 - Karma: 4,888
yeah when I was referring to the master plan when I said Revy has "potential". The thing about master plans is that they're probably never going to come to fruition, for many reasons.

Those lifts they want to put in cost a lot of money, and without selling a bunch of real estate and increasing skier visits drastically you aren't going to see Revy change too much in the next decade. If jumbo does get developed I wouldn't expect any more expansion out of Revelstoke for a very long time.
Nov 22 2012 3:08AM
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Jaimee.
Posts: 846 - Karma: 87
Not necessarily true. One way we'd be paying for it would be through taxes in road maintenance, and road construction seeing as how a road hasn't even really been built up there, yet. At least not one that would be able to handle being an access to a resort. Increased traffic in that area of the province would direct more funding to road maintenance around Invermere and into the Glacier. Which really, I'm for more money being spent on road maintenance in the Kootenays, some of the roads around here are just absolute crap.

Not to mention that since there is now a municipality there the municpal government will be going to the provincial government for grants for infrastructure, then health care services etc. That money comes from our taxes, so yes, we will be paying for it.

I'm sure there are other ways, but those are just some that came to mind.

I agree with Drail on this matter, he knows what he's talking about.
Nov 22 2012 3:30AM
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S.RUZYCKI
Posts: 498 - Karma: 28
this is probably the worst idea. the closest international airport is calgary and thats pretty damn far away. plus its gunna destroy the environement...
Nov 22 2012 12:50PM
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jorb.co
Posts: 2581 - Karma: 468
This is such bullshit and will never go through. A couple weeks ago I skied pow where this development is supposed to go, it was a 45 minute drive from Panorama (ski hill 20 minutes from nearest town) up a sketchy ass road into the middle of the fucking wilderness. Even if this does happen, no one will show up. It might be a cool exotic destination but definitely not one that generate enough regular business to even operate. I <3 JUMBO WILD FUCK THE HATERS FUCK SKIING THE WORLD IS GONNA END FUCK RICH PEOPLE FUCK JUMBO
Nov 23 2012 12:35AM
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jorb.co
Posts: 2581 - Karma: 468
I'm so sick of this debate. There is just absolutely no reason for this to happen, a completely unneccesary resort development in the middle of relatively untouched wilderness. There is so much incredible lift accessed and non-lift accessed skiing within an hour of this place. Why the Jumbo development is even considered seems ridiculous. Don't tell me it will improve the economy because it fucking won't. There's no way this could become even as big as Revelstoke. Revelstoke is 2 fucking hours away. DFJTYAGKSUZHDBCJ,D
Nov 23 2012 12:40AM
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SurfaceHoar
Posts: 311 - Karma: 240
Valley bottom is around 5500ft. So a little below the roundhouse.


Local Opposition:


Nov 23 2012 11:11AM
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ShredMasterPlus
Posts: 1159 - Karma: 807
Well hearing the guy who was standing for it talking on CBC, Say it would be the only Resort in North America with Guaranteed natural snow before Xmas was when I stopped Listening. Pretty sure almost every decent interior BC resort has tons of natural snow by Christmas. Sure they may use some snow making to maintain groomers but still what a ridiculous claim.

Resorts are already seeming to not make that much money in the are how they think tossing another one in the middle of butt fuck nowhere will work I dunno.

But if it does happen I will go there to ski in the summer not going to lie.
Nov 23 2012 11:21AM
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Andyktm
Posts: 834 - Karma: -253
I think that is gunna be sick but I ski in Invermire at panorama and its pretty shitty. Most people that live in Invermire are super ignorant and don't give a shit about brining more money into their town the prefer no change so I feel like the glacier won't be as sick as it sounds since fresking isn't get popular in the area and everyone rides the racing industries dick. I hope it ends up happening even though some more wildlife will be destroyed but i hope it worth it
Nov 23 2012 11:35AM
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snomaster
Posts: 3346 - Karma: 5,771
After spending two weeks in that region last winter I have no clue how the local economy could support Jumbo. And theres no way that they could draw enough outsider $$ with lousy timeshare offers or whatever the plan might be. I feel like there is already a nice ratio of resorts, heli/cat ops, and wilderness in BC. The comparisons to Revelstoke I think are very valid. Revy at least has a bit of population and they still struggle. Anyone who wants to shred the Jumbo zone can if they try right now. Keep it how it is.
Nov 23 2012 12:42PM
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ski0
Posts: 2321 - Karma: 5,370
for all of you who are sayin there s no market ... there clearly IS a market for a YEAR ROUND ski hill. You cant compare to anything else, because it doesnt exist at all right now. Id rather see the growth of the region come in the form of jumbo rather then Revvy expanding into whistler .
Nov 23 2012 12:45PM
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snomaster
Posts: 3346 - Karma: 5,771
SkiO, the general public doesn't want to ski in the summer. That is a super niche market and Hood/Whistler plus a few places in Europe have that segment saturated. If some rich person or dedicated ski bum wants more decent skiing during summer they go to the Southern Hemisphere.

Don't believe the hype.
Nov 23 2012 12:54PM
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FUUUCK
Posts: 18426 - Karma: 4,888
Revy can't expand into a Whistler because it has no equivalent to Vancouver. Calgary is a smaller city and much further away.

Trust me there's not money to be made in year round skiing, that's why most resorts close early even when they have the snow to stay open till June. The ski industry doesn't make money off the hardcore ski bum that wants to ski 100+ days, they make money off tourists, families, and your average intermediate weekend warriors.

Don't believe me? Whistler doesn't even make a profit on its glacier.

Existing resorts expanding their terrain is a way better alternative to a new resort opening in the area, for everyone involved.
Nov 25 2012 11:47PM
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ski0
Posts: 2321 - Karma: 5,370
Nothing like Jumbos all year terrain exsits in North America. And if they had a really sick park, and terrain all year setup , I dont see why people from all over the place would want to shred in T shirts all summer.
Nov 25 2012 11:55PM
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Maximumsushi
Posts: 7837 - Karma: 3,351
Well said Darryl!
Nov 26 2012 12:49AM
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snomaster
Posts: 3346 - Karma: 5,771
Click for larger image
Nov 26 2012 12:51AM
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Download-My-Apps
Posts: 5069 - Karma: 1,017
whistler has two t-bars open in the summer, other then the camps barely anyone from vancouver bothers. The average joe couldnt care less about skiing past easter.
Nov 26 2012 1:10AM
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Funnel
Posts: 7816 - Karma: 1,534
I don't want to see this happen. There is clearly no market and no reason to build Jumbo.
Nov 26 2012 2:50AM
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zahava
Posts: 7791 - Karma: 12,039
It's time to stop posing....
Nov 26 2012 9:51AM
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SkiBum.
Posts: 3600 - Karma: 3,909
Horrible location...
Nov 26 2012 1:14PM
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Mr_pretzel
Posts: 4616 - Karma: 1,290
what? too stupid to understand. please re-explain

Bc doesnt need this. Also an all year resort, in the middle of the woods? Thats never ever going to work.

Nov 26 2012 2:01PM
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ski0
Posts: 2321 - Karma: 5,370
I ve been to whistler in the summer, and its shit compared to the terrain Jumbo is propsed to have. Just sayin its really not the same at all.
Nov 26 2012 3:46PM
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ski0
Posts: 2321 - Karma: 5,370
Also ya the location isnt great but about 4 hours from Calgary, and closer then revelstoke to calgary
Nov 26 2012 3:50PM
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Mdiamond
Posts: 50 - Karma: 26
Thanks. Pretty much what I was thinking reading thru the post.

I didn't quote but even someone from that region said that nobody gave a shit about developping resorts in the area. So now tell me who would pay to go there?

And not to say it would be another bad move for the environment.

Nov 26 2012 4:06PM
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250r
Posts: 2276 - Karma: 1,013
theyre both flat glaciers...
Nov 26 2012 5:07PM
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FUUUCK
Posts: 18426 - Karma: 4,888
Again, there's no money to be made in Glacier skiing.

Tourists aren't going to go on a ski vacation in July. Hardcore skiers don't spend money. If you're fortunate enough to be an avid skier with a lot of money you go to South America, not some flat slushy glacier in the middle of bumfuck nowhere.

Glacier skiing is a futile endeavour anyway. The glaciers are melting, Whistler will be shutting down theirs in a few more seasons, I imagine Hood won't be too far behind them. Jumbo would last longer, but how much longer? 20years? 40years? And then what? We've permanently spoiled that pristine wilderness. Look at a satellite map of BC, there's very little virgin wilderness left, its time start conserving what we have.
Nov 26 2012 6:03PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,011
It's actually more like 5 hours, which is about the same amount of time it takes to get to Revelstoke.
Nov 26 2012 11:16PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,011
Shames is a small ski area by Terrace, BC. It was owned by the logging company in town (or something along those lines) and the town was fearful that with the decline in logging, the logging company would either shut down the ski hill or shut down the mill (and just straight up abandon the ski hill). They took it upon themselves to spearhead a mission to make Shames a co-op. They have succeeded. It's a small hill with minimal inbounds terrain, but accesses some really big and awesome slackcountry. Small, local minded ski area that has skiing as #1 on it's list of priorities. Intrawest is a real estate company, RCR is even worse. Ski areas should have skiing as the number 1 priority, not all this "resort" crap. It doesn't work in our current economy.



Nov 26 2012 11:22PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,011
Triple post!!!!!


So I just got back from skiing for the past few days and I was skiing with some guys who live in the East Kootenays and ski around the area more than most. They were telling me that Farnham has some zones that are restricted for sled access, and if Jumbo goes through, a huge chunk of the Jumbo/Farnham area could very well be re zoned to restrict not only sledding, but touring as well.

If you still think that Jumbo is a good idea, please understand that us Kootenay folk don't give a shit about terrain parks in the middle of nowhere in the summer time. We are skiers, we are mountain people and we don't want this. There is no one in Canada, USA, or Europe willing to invest in Jumbo right now because everyone agrees it's a bad idea.
Nov 26 2012 11:28PM
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snomaster
Posts: 3346 - Karma: 5,771
I like to build my own jumps in zones like this ^. Ultimate freedom rules!!
Nov 27 2012 1:14AM
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SurfaceHoar
Posts: 311 - Karma: 240
Hey Drail, Care to shed some light on how the access was? I'm assuming you came in on the glacier creek FSR from the west. I try and get up there a couple times a year. Mostly in the spring/summer once the road melts out.

Nov 29 2012 12:18PM
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